Boxrec should clarify policy about unsanctioned shows

[saliman]

https://irish-boxing.com/watch-live-iri ... in-poland/

This event took place yesterday. I know exactly why it is not listed on Boxrec. There are some controversies with sanctioning in Poland. New body called PBU split from PWBZ. PBU is now officially recognized by EBU and most referees and judges left PWBZ for PBU. So basically there are two comissions in Poland at the moment. PBU didn't supervise the event as they objected to some bouts on the card citing discrepancies in skill level. Promoters decided to switch to PWBZ, which accepted the card.

I still think it should be listed. Let's look at Germany and their boxing comissions. They have BDB (Bund Deutschfer Berufboxer), GBA (German Boxing Association) and lot of unsanctioned shows are on the Boxrec records as well. Some high profile shows in Germany were also sanctioned by Austrian Comission. GBA held some shows in Poland and they're listed.
This card from Poland (https://boxrec.com/en/event/804605) was sanctioned by Austrian Comission and it's on the record as "unsactioned" but at least it's been accepted. This show is listed (https://boxrec.com/en/event/731844) and had no official comission whatsoever, just some random boxer as a referee!

I think too much weird politics is involved in record keeping at the moment. We have this Tony Yoka controversy with not even a hint of explaination, some cards missing like the one from Hungary where Ashley Theophane and Mark de Mori fought and now this. if governments permit those events and they're held under pro boxing rules they should be accepted. At least don't use different policy for different countries. Here are the examples of Boxrec being OK with usanctioned shows in Germany:
https://boxrec.com/en/event/673628
https://boxrec.com/en/event/756709
https://boxrec.com/en/event/740565
https://boxrec.com/en/event/688807

[K Evans C Slater]

Hi,

Just to confirm the EBU wrote a letter to all governing bodies announcing that they do NOT recognise PBU. They only recognise Polish Professional Boxing Department (PPBD).

The show you’re referring to on Saturday was sanctioned by PPBD, as instructed by EBU.

I believe their is internal problem in Poland, but The EBU intervened and it was only right for the show to be sanctioned by the official comission that is a member of The European Boxing Union.

I believe The EBU are sending full report of Saturdays show sanctioned by their member the PPBD to boxrec today.

I am unsure on how to add a screenshot to this post but would be more than happy to show you letter from EBU to all of their members clarifying their position with PBU and PPBD

[saliman]

Hi,

Just to confirm the EBU wrote a letter to all governing bodies announcing that they do NOT recognise PBU. They only recognise Polish Professional Boxing Department (PPBD).

The show you’re referring to on Saturday was sanctioned by PPBD, as instructed by EBU.

I believe their is internal problem in Poland, but The EBU intervened and it was only right for the show to be sanctioned by the official comission that is a member of The European Boxing Union.

I believe The EBU are sending full report of Saturdays show sanctioned by their member the PPBD to boxrec today.

I am unsure on how to add a screenshot to this post but would be more than happy to show you letter from EBU to all of their members clarifying their position with PBU and PPBD

You're right. I've made a mistake. PPBD (PWBZ in Polish) is recognized by EBU. Hower, Boxrec is not recognizing PPBD shows since few months. Some of those events were broadcasted on national TV. Leszek Jankowiak (Polish boxrec's editor) is involved in PBU, so someone's fooling us by not recognizing the shows. Unfortunately, the boxers and fans are hurt by the fact.
Boxrec should list events officiated by EBU body.

[K Evans C Slater]

I believe The EBU have demanded the show goes on boxrec and I would imagine the show will be posted within the next couple of days as I believe the full report of the show has been sent from PPBD via EBU to Boxrec.

The show was originally going to be with PBU until EBU made it clear they only work with PPBD so the show was changed.

Boxrec can’t deny results from a comission that are recognised by EBU and results that are being sent to them by The EBU president.

Many boxers on the show could be in line to fight for European belt, so it was needed to be recognised by EBU and that’s why the show was like this. Everything followed direct EBU guidelines.

The PBU could be seen similar to BIBA, as organisations that are not associated with EBU. It sets a bad precedent if you allow commissions not associated with EBU to have a monopoly.

I expect results to be posted soon.

[saliman]

The PBU could be seen similar to BIBA, as organisations that are not associated with EBU. It sets a bad precedent if you allow commissions not associated with EBU to have a monopoly.

Boxrec created this monopoly and they don't recognize PPBD simply because they don't want to. It's bad, but as a private company they do what they want. We just have to make it clear that Boxrec is responsible for this.

[klimek79]

Its Mr Jankowiak bad job, simple when he was judge and ref under PPBD all events he was editing as a PPBD sancioned shows, now he left with his people and they opened PBU, there is a letter from EBU that they have nothing to do with PBU and also they suspending them. From that moment all shows sancioned by PPBD are edit by Jankowiak as a Unsancioned shows, he is doing this. And boxrec should check whats going on, its big mess in Poland.

[saliman]

From what I've heard WBC and EBU will remove Polish boxers fighting on PBU cards from the rankings. So, Polish boxers now have a choice between not being recognized by Boxrec or not being recognized by EBU It's a joke. What's the solution? Probably only to have cards in Poland officiated by foreign comission.

[klimek79]

Always Polish shows was under Polish Profesional Boxing Department, PBU are new and most people move from other to this new ones, its a bit of war now, problem is Boxrec editor Mr Jankowiak start PBU.

[K Evans C Slater]

A phenomenal show in Poland last night live on national TV, I hope Boxrec will post this show which is with PPBD.

https://sport.tvp.pl/50453603/gala-mb-b ... zywo-wideo

KARTA WALK GALI MB BOXING NIGHT 8 WE WROCŁAWIU:

Kamil Łaszczyk (28-0) vs. Kevin Escanez (8-2-1) – waga piórkowa, 10 rund
Michał Leśniak (13-1-1) vs. Hamza Misaui (9-2) – waga półśrednia, 8 rund
Kamil Młodziński (12-5-4) vs. Zsolt Osadan (16-0-1) – waga półśrednia, 6 rund
Kamil Bodzioch (6-1) vs. Jakub Sosiński (3-1) – waga ciężka, 6 rund
Tomasz Nowicki (5-0) vs. Mario Zabojnik (3-0) – waga super półśrednia, 6 rund
Kamil Wierzejski (3-0) vs. Michał Łoniewski (2-2) – waga junior ciężka, 6 rund

[saliman]

A phenomenal show in Poland last night live on national TV, I hope Boxrec will post this show which is with PPBD.

They won't. Don't have any hope about this.

[saliman]

Results from saturday's event. https://www.tapology.com/fightcenter/ev ... ng-night-8

[saliman]

Boxers fighting on PBU (only accepted by Boxrec) cards are banned from EBU ratings.

[K Evans C Slater]

Boxers fighting on PBU (only accepted by Boxrec) cards are banned from EBU ratings.

4 Boxers who fought on PBU shows have also been removed from WBC ranking. Very unfair on boxers to give them choice of being excluded from potential title opportunities or not being with BoxRec (especially when no statement was made from BoxRec was made on the manner, only a statement from EBU clarifying their stance.

I see no issue with publishing results from both organisations.

[saliman]

4 Boxers who fought on PBU shows have also been removed from WBC ranking. Very unfair on boxers to give them choice of being excluded from potential title opportunities or not being with BoxRec (especially when no statement was made from BoxRec was made on the manner, only a statement from EBU clarifying their stance.

I see no issue with publishing results from both organisations.

There's a possibility that PBU was created with influence of biggest promoter in Poland, Wasilewski who had a beef with PPBD because they revoked the license of Adam Balski https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/665165 . Balski had a contract with different promoter, but signed another one with Wasilewski without termination. As a result PPBD banned Balski and Wasilewski stopped cooperating with the comission. He made a one event (https://boxrec.com/en/event/804605) with the use of Austrian and German judges.
Then, the PBU was created by Leszek Jankowiak (https://boxrec.com/en/judge/401427), influential Polish official and Boxrec's editor. Immediately, they started officiating Wasilewski's events and PPBD stopped being recognized by Boxrec. Not everything worked out well enough as they haven't convinced WBC and EBU so far. I don't think this situation could last for a long time, but we're during a pandemic and you can justify some weird crap like not having big fights in Poland because you're either recognized by WBC/EBU or Boxrec.
Personally, I don't think it's a good sign that Boxrec is unwilling to accept EBU policies. Polish promotores seem to have given up and accepted the fate. At least, we can post "banned" events on Tapology.

[K Evans C Slater]

This weekend Queensberry and Warren have a show on in Poland with a WBC title being contested, this event is not on Boxrec because it is with PPBD. The EBU and WBC are standing by the PPBD but BoxRec now refuses to recognise a commission they have worked with for years. This is crazy.

[saliman]

Up to 2012/2013 all boxing (pro and amateur) in Poland was supervised by PBA. AIBA didn't want their comission to be involved with pro boxing, so PPBD emerged. Apparently, PPBD hasn't be really registered as an association, but was privately owned by Krasicki. It's a main argument against PPBD at the moment. Boxrec appears to care about it more than WBC and EBU do, though. I think they should just put those cards on, because these are mostly decent, internationally recognized events with good production.

Lot of blame was put on Jankowiak who was a Polish editor and now is involved with PBU, but this card https://boxrec.com/en/event/810508 is on Boxrec and Jankowiak was already out of PPBD at the time, so I'm not sure it's really his fault.

[saliman]

Results from Queensberry show:


Paweł Augustynik def. Dariusz Sęk (100-89,97-92,97-92), Sęk down in round 8
Bartłomiej Grafka def. Rafał Jackiewicz (58-56,58-56,59-55)
Michał Soczyński def. Piotr Rzyman (39-35,39-36,39-36), point deducted from Soczyński in round 4 for spitting out the mouthgear
Abdulkhay Sharakhmatov def. Robert Niedźwiedzki (TKO round 2)
Ryszard Lewicki def. Daniel Przewieślik (40-36,40-36,40-36)
Karol Długosz def. Paweł Martyniuk (39-37,40-37,39-37)

[mike.tregubov]

I'm wondering if whatever happened to A LOT of fights from Tanzania is also have the same reason. These fights were in the boxrec database and on fighters records and now they are not. For instance - Goodluck Mrema (ID# 733932) used to have a record 23-6-0 and now his page shows just 7 fights and a record of 1-6-0. But strangely, in the search results he is still shown as having 23-6-0.

[saliman]

I'm wondering if whatever happened to A LOT of fights from Tanzania is also have the same reason. These fights were in the boxrec database and on fighters records and now they are not. For instance - Goodluck Mrema (ID# 733932) used to have a record 23-6-0 and now his page shows just 7 fights and a record of 1-6-0. But strangely, in the search results he is still shown as having 23-6-0.

Yes, all fights from Tanzanian comission from the past few years have been hidden. Apparently, the comission falsified some results. Fights which really took place have been removed too, though

[John]

There is some light on the horizon, a new group has merged who so far seem to be legitimate

https://boxrec.com/en/event/821523

[K Evans C Slater]

Hi John,

Do you have any update on the publishing of shows in Poland over last few months that are not showing on BoxRec yet ?

Thanks for your help

[John]

Hi John,

Do you have any update on the publishing of shows in Poland over last few months that are not showing on BoxRec yet ?

Thanks for your help

The Poles are still arguing amongst themselves, we will see what happens. But if you want to do any future events the PBU events will go in regardless as we have confidence that they are a legitimate authority.

[Marek.boxing]

For 8 years there was PPDB, which is in the EBU. What happened that the PPDB is not in boxrec?

[K Evans C Slater]

Thanks John. I personally won’t be advising any boxers to go to Poland for the foreseeable future until their is further clarity on whatever the internal politics are. However I do feel it is very unfair (while also being unsafe) on the boxers who have fought on PPBD cards under the instruction from The EBU (The EBU have today sent another letter clarifying that they only recognise PPBD). Perhaps a fair resolution would be to publish events in Poland but not name the comission (as seen for an upcoming event in Poland on December 4th) or listed as ‘unsanctioned’ (as seen for an event in Poland previously on March 7th).

[Marek.boxing]

John, you founded Boxrec. It was supposed to be fair. It was supposed to be good for the players. Mission over? There are two organizations in Poland. Promoters in Poland will choose who is better.