Don’t Tell Me Daniel Dubois is a Quitter

[Ruthless-RKO]

By Tris Dixon

Boxing is a sport of character.

At its most fundamental, it’s fight or flight.

Through history, we measure a man’s will. We call him a warrior if he gives us his all and a coward or a quitter if we get anything less when the going gets tough.

The going got tough for Daniel Dubois on Saturday in London. He lost for the first time but it was not merely losing that caused a groundswell of debate or opinion but the manner in which he lost.

Many saw his fight with Joe Joyce as close as it wore on. Plenty had Joyce ahead but two judges favoured Dubois and one, John Latham, had ridiculously only given Joyce a couple of rounds.

That’s a column for another day, though let it be noted it’s one of the year’s very worst scorecards in another year marred by many extraordinary ones.

But when Dubois took yet another swift, hard jab onto his seriously swollen left eye he indicated that he was hurt – another no-no in this ridiculously ultra-machismo world – and he surrendered to one knee.

That in itself is not where many drew the line. It came after he’d listened to Ian John-Lewis’s 10 count and then decided to rise. That was when the scorn was poured over his character.

He was set alight on social media: aged 23, having met fire with fire in his first really arduous professional test and many branded him a ‘quitter’.

I think he made a choice but I’d never call him a quitter.

We want our boxers to make sacrifices, no matter the cost.

‘Real’ fighters have lost their lives giving it their all.

It’s seen to be better to have too much heart than too little, but who picks up the pieces when it goes very wrong because the sport certainly doesn’t.

Which union would Dubois go to for his medical bills to pay for his fractured orbital bone and the nerve damage around his left eye?

Which union would look after him if he had to retire, at just 23?

How would those call him a quitter help him through life if he was left with one eye?

This isn’t to blow things out of proportion, far from it. Labelling a fighter a quitter needs to be addressed.

Anthony Ogogo, former Olympic bronze medalist, had to retire after suffering a multitude of eye injuries. Former world lightweight champion John Murray lives blind in one eye.

In fact, too many fighters have suffered detached retinas (Frank Bruno, Jeff Chandler...) and been at risk for the rest of their days.

And Dubois is a central cog of a loving family. How would his younger siblings feel if he’d carried on but his dream was over? How would his father feel if he’d fought until there was permanent eye damage?

We, the critics, are not the ones who pick up the pieces or live with the consequences for wanting our fighters to leave every drop of themselves in the prize ring.

Yet we, the fans, scream the loudest and call people out for doing things that we ourselves would never do.

In boxing you find exceptional people who have done exceptional things.

Fighters have fought through shut eyes, with dislocated shoulders, jaws broken and swinging agape and they are idolised for it but it would take a real jerk to define Roberto Duran’s career with No Mas because it scarcely deserves an asterisks in any humane society.

What other sport or line of work is there, aside from on the front line of the military, would we expect people to keep working when staring down life changing injuries?

What kind of people are we to call someone out for getting out of the line of fire when they can’t see the fire they have to walk to to be in with a chance of turning a fight around.

Daniel Dubois doesn’t deserve the label too many people have bestowed on him.

Perhaps the way he feels about it now will stiffen his resolve in the future. Maybe he hates himself for it today.

Or maybe he will get his injuries treated, start a rebuild and come again and put it down to experience.

He might not be the next Liston or Tyson or Louis or Lewis but he doesn’t have to be. He’s on his own journey and it’s a journey that will take him far further than where he was in Church House in Westminster last night if he wants it to.

He deserves no label nor any criticism. He did what fighters do. He fought and he lost. That’s sport. That’s the game or the business, whatever you prefer to call it.

He will fight again and he will likely win and lose again but reserve judgement with the sweeping character assassinations and the ‘quitter’ cries because not only does he not deserve them but when a young, inexperienced fighter is half blind, taking stick and preserves himself for his future, his family and his livelihood sometimes making the decision not to fight in is the hardest decision any boxer will ever have to make.

[Tarquin Tarpaulin IV]

Very well said

[Fray Bentos]

Exactly!

[Noxy]

Dixon nails it again, nice one.

[polecateddy]

Yes top notch! I suppose it can’t be said for certain Dubois will be able to actually fight again, as there is talk of nerve damage to the eye.

[cormack]

too many people come out and were pretty negative / rude about the way Dubois took a knee - which is in the rules for a reason ..
but all this crap about being carried out is just uneducated stupidity .

he knew that he couldnt see from the left eye and was risking some serious injury , so why continue !
I watched it back last night and cant help wonder should the corner have thrown the towel ?

Anyway I wish him well , he has given good value every time and will come again if the eye heals properly .
JJ was better on the night and probably would have taken it on points had it gone 12 , DD was able to throw some power shots but not enough and seemed to struggle for some reason and looked erratic. I sense that there was some poor prep some where in all of this , perhaps due to the long delay or the realisation that JJ was not fazed enough by his power .

[Ruthless-RKO]

too many people come out and were pretty negative / rude about the way Dubois took a knee - which is in the rules for a reason ..
but all this crap about being carried out is just uneducated stupidity .

he knew that he couldnt see from the left eye and was risking some serious injury , so why continue !
I watched it back last night and cant help wonder should the corner have thrown the towel ?

Anyway I wish him well , he has given good value every time and will come again if the eye heals properly .
JJ was better on the night and probably would have taken it on points had it gone 12 , DD was able to throw some power shots but not enough and seemed to struggle for some reason and looked erratic. I sense that there was some poor prep some where in all of this , perhaps due to the long delay or the realisation that JJ was not fazed enough by his power .

Yeh, bad they thrown the towel in, DDD wouldn’t be getting any heat.

What would people say instead? The corner made a good decision, you have to protect your boxer.. like the boxer can’t protect themselves?

[dookus]

Excellent article.

[Counter-puncher]

Former world lightweight champion John Murray lives blind in one eye.

I didn't know this

[black panther]

Well said that man!

A voice of reason.

[Noxy]

Former world lightweight champion John Murray lives blind in one eye.

I didn't know this

I didn’t either. I knew he had eye trouble, that was all.

[TopGun]

Nice article I can see your point of view.

However, if you choose to enter the prize fighting game, then you have to expect to get hurt. You have to essentially be willing to die in the ring. it doesn't necessarily mean you want to though. And Daniel didn't want to on Saturday night. Therefore I think an opponent who is willing to be stretchered out of the ring against DD will now have that mental edge on him.

Injuries like this are the sacrifices you make to earn a living from inflicting pain on another person. Its a question you have to ask yourself, am I willing to die or take on this punishement and carry on? Because if you are not then essentially your career maybe limited.

On Saturday night, Daniel Dubois quit.

That's the truth, he was able to carry on and more people have fought on with a lot worse.

I'm not having a dig, before anyone starts, buts lets be real here, if you want to be world champion then you have to make the sacrifices. The ultimate sacrifice a boxer needs to make is accepting the fact they may have to lose their life. That's why they make the big bucks at the top.

Perhaps I'm too caught up in the moment from Saturday night still, perhaps I'm still a bit hurt as I was backing Dubois in a big way. I don't know. But like the thread poster, I'm only saying how I feel.

[CaptainSpacerod]

A wordy sermon from reverend Dixon

Isn’t there a middle ground where one can quite rightly say he quit but not judge him for it ?

[Ruthless-RKO]

Nice article I can see your point of view.

Not gonna take credit mate. Tris Dixon wrote the article. Not me.

[Ruthless-RKO]

A wordy sermon from reverend Dixon

Isn’t there a middle ground where one can quite rightly say he quit but not judge him for it ?

Was Duran badly hurt or could he just not take it anymore? Joyce put a beating on Dub's eye.. Dub may have been forced to quit.. He should have retired on his stool before that round.. or even the round before.

[Ruthless-RKO]

George Groves has backed DDD up.

[Twinkle Toes]

There is an awful lot of current and retired fighters including trainers that are calling Dubois a quitter.

I hope Dixon bears that in mind next time he has the opportunity to interview those same people.

[CaptainSpacerod]

A wordy sermon from reverend Dixon

Isn’t there a middle ground where one can quite rightly say he quit but not judge him for it ?

Was Duran badly hurt or could he just not take it anymore? Joyce put a beating on Dub's eye.. Dub may have been forced to quit.. He should have retired on his stool before that round.. or even the round before.

For sure there are different kinds of quitting but the point I’m making is that just saying he quit is does not in itself convey contempt for what he did. Many of the pundits who’ve got criticism on here for calling him a quitter did qualify their remarks.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Brain injury charity calls criticism of Daniel Dubois 'irresponsible'

• Boxer had damaged eye but was criticised for taking a knee.

• ‘What kind of message is sent about the nature of brain injuries?’

Criticism directed at the boxer Daniel Dubois for stopping his fight with Joe Joyce was “dangerous and irresponsible”, according to the brain injury charity Headway.

Dubois took a knee and felt he was unable to continue in the 10th round of his British, Commonwealth and European heavyweight title bout in London on Saturday night. He had suffered a broken orbital bone and nerve damage around his left eye, but faced initial criticism for “quitting” the fight rather than continuing until his corner or the referee stopped it.

Luke Griggs, the deputy chief executive of the Headway charity, said the incident highlighted the mindset which had developed in the sport. “This is the sort of thing we see all the time, this [talk of] bravery for boxers who manage to defy an eight count and continue despite the fact they are clearly concussed and yet they are allowed to continue to box and continue to take punishment to the head and brain,” he told the PA news agency. “In any other sport there would be outcry every time that someone is allowed to continue with a concussion and yet in boxing they’re praised for doing so.

“In this situation at the weekend you’ve got former boxers criticising Dubois for taking the knee when he had a fractured eye socket, the concept being you’ve got to be brave, you’ve got to be a hero, you’ve got to fight on to the bitter end. What kind of message is that sending to people about the nature of brain injuries? It’s dangerous, it’s irresponsible.”

The former cruiserweight and heavyweight fighter Tony Bellew told BT Sport after the fight: “It just doesn’t look good, the way he took a knee. As a fighter, you want to go out on your shield.”

Dubois’ opponent Joyce said: “He’s good at giving a punch, but maybe not so good at taking a punch. I’d go to the end, unless I was getting pinged and there was no point in continuing.

“I would prefer to go out on my shield rather than stop the fight like that. Look at David Haye and the courage he had to fight on one leg. He was still throwing punches. He’s a warrior.”

[Ruthless-RKO]

Joe Joyce: Dubois Definitely Quit, But He Saved His Eye; He's Young, Can Come Back

“Yeah, he definitely quit,” Joyce told IFL TV in a post-fight interview. “But it was a good, I mean, he saved his eye. His eye was obviously busted up and I hear he broke [an eye] socket or something and it broke his heart. I mean, he’s young, he can come again, and ‘The Juggernaut’s’ just gonna keep marching forward.”

“I felt the jab was landing well,” Joyce said, “so I kept at him, took his jab away, used my footwork, stayed away from the dangerous shots, followed the game plan and it worked for me [Saturday] night. And I didn’t really fancy like mixing it close with him, because what I was doing was working. So, I just kept at it. And it seemed to be quite a close fight, but I was happy when he put his knee down and I stopped Daniel Dubois, and I proved all you haters wrong, and hopefully made a lot of people some money [Saturday night].”

[Ruthless-RKO]

Dixons article is predictable, self righteous and after the event. Dubois did quit. Dixon didn't know what the damage was at the time. People say the pain was too intense but he showed none of the signs boxers usually do when eye pain is really severe. He didn't turn his back, put his hand to his eye. He never showed signs of pain in the corner when the ends well was being pressed hard against it. Dubois was panicking early before the eye injury got bad. He couldn't handle being hit back and his huge bullying frame wasn't enough. So he quit. He was perfectly compos mentis. He decided the take the knee and sit out the count. He will never be the same again. Hes a bust. Fish eyes and bowers must be crying. Your huge Ped bully had his heart broken.

Just before he took the knee, he touched the eye.. Prior to that, nothing. But we could clearly see it was gone.

[cormack]

lets put this into context !

Amir Khan quit against Crawford alleging a low blow that was proven not to be , he wasnt hurt but didnt want to fight on as he was being totally bossed and realised he would get taken out .
Thats Quitting !

Dubois safeguarding the sight in his left eye in the way he did is not the same type of " quitting "

[Controversial]

Dixons article is predictable, self righteous and after the event. Dubois did quit. Dixon didn't know what the damage was at the time. People say the pain was too intense but he showed none of the signs boxers usually do when eye pain is really severe. He didn't turn his back, put his hand to his eye. He never showed signs of pain in the corner when the ends well was being pressed hard against it. Dubois was panicking early before the eye injury got bad. He couldn't handle being hit back and his huge bullying frame wasn't enough. So he quit. He was perfectly compos mentis. He decided the take the knee and sit out the count. He will never be the same again. Hes a bust. Fish eyes and bowers must be crying. Your huge Ped bully had his heart broken.

I guess he means there is no shame in doing what he did and to him he isn't a 'quitter in his eyes'. Yes of course he quit but I think the sensible thing to do in that situation and he hopefully gets to fight another day.

[Fightnight Scores]

Some very weird people getting a kick out of a young prospects failure. I don't get it!

This to me is akin to a body shot that puts someone down. They are "knocked out" as they can't get up...no one calls it quitting though. They accept that the crippling body shot ended the fight. This is an accumulation of punches to his eye that are crippling enough for the man to not continue.

Dubois celarly grimaced when the sharp jab landed and there was the brief delay before he took the knee. You can only assume he felt the pain at that moment and realised he was in trouble.

[Counter-puncher]

Dixons article is predictable, self righteous and after the event. Dubois did quit. Dixon didn't know what the damage was at the time. People say the pain was too intense but he showed none of the signs boxers usually do when eye pain is really severe. He didn't turn his back, put his hand to his eye. He never showed signs of pain in the corner when the ends well was being pressed hard against it. Dubois was panicking early before the eye injury got bad. He couldn't handle being hit back and his huge bullying frame wasn't enough. So he quit. He was perfectly compos mentis. He decided the take the knee and sit out the count. He will never be the same again. Hes a bust. Fish eyes and bowers must be crying. Your huge Ped bully had his heart broken.

I guess he means there is no shame in doing what he did and to him he isn't a 'quitter in his eyes'. Yes of course he quit but I think the sensible thing to do in that situation and he hopefully gets to fight another day.

Yeah but Dixon virtue signalling is pathetic.

fvck off you prick