Don’t Tell Me Daniel Dubois is a Quitter

[Controversial]

Dixons article is predictable, self righteous and after the event. Dubois did quit. Dixon didn't know what the damage was at the time. People say the pain was too intense but he showed none of the signs boxers usually do when eye pain is really severe. He didn't turn his back, put his hand to his eye. He never showed signs of pain in the corner when the ends well was being pressed hard against it. Dubois was panicking early before the eye injury got bad. He couldn't handle being hit back and his huge bullying frame wasn't enough. So he quit. He was perfectly compos mentis. He decided the take the knee and sit out the count. He will never be the same again. Hes a bust. Fish eyes and bowers must be crying. Your huge Ped bully had his heart broken.

I guess he means there is no shame in doing what he did and to him he isn't a 'quitter in his eyes'. Yes of course he quit but I think the sensible thing to do in that situation and he hopefully gets to fight another day.

Yeah but Dixon virtue signalling is pathetic. After the event. People love violence, brutal kos etc in boxing. There described as 'beautiful punches'. There will always be injuries in boxing its part of the game. Long term, quitting might be good physically but mentally it shows his vulnerability

Hmm it depends. Duran quit against SRL, you don't get much tougher fighters than Duran. The big test will be how Dubois handles punches in future, there's a risk he will become gun shy.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Not everyone boxer can take the same amount of damage. Does that mean they're not good boxers? No.

You can take more damage going 12 rounds, than being brutally knocked out in 2-3 rounds.

Some boxers get praised goig through a 12 roudn battle, win or lose.. The fans who the boxers are pleasing, are not the ones risking anything.. It's the boxers. They're still humans.

Dub just ran into a train..

My opinion.. Dubois did quit, it has now been justified. He shouldn't be getting this much heat.

[Cyclops]

I guess he means there is no shame in doing what he did and to him he isn't a 'quitter in his eyes'. Yes of course he quit but I think the sensible thing to do in that situation and he hopefully gets to fight another day.

Yeah but Dixon virtue signalling is pathetic.

fvck off you prick

[dookus]

Not everyone boxer can take the same amount of damage. Does that mean they're not good boxers? No.

You can take more damage going 12 rounds, than being brutally knocked out in 2-3 rounds.

Some boxers get praised goig through a 12 roudn battle, win or lose.. The fans who the boxers are pleasing, are not the ones risking anything.. It's the boxers. They're still humans.

Dub just ran into a train..

My opinion.. Dubois did quit, it has now been justified. He shouldn't be getting this much heat.

[Ruthless-RKO]

I guess he means there is no shame in doing what he did and to him he isn't a 'quitter in his eyes'. Yes of course he quit but I think the sensible thing to do in that situation and he hopefully gets to fight another day.

Yeah but Dixon virtue signalling is pathetic. After the event. People love violence, brutal kos etc in boxing. There described as 'beautiful punches'. There will always be injuries in boxing its part of the game. Long term, quitting might be good physically but mentally it shows his vulnerability

Hmm it depends. Duran quit against SRL, you don't get much tougher fighters than Duran. The big test will be how Dubois handles punches in future, there's a risk he will become gun shy.

I mean he was still in the fight, was stil lgoing for it. Throwing combos. He was still concious at the time he took the knee.

[THEBUTCH]

Thank you Tris Dixon for a great article (and thanks to Ruthless-RKO for putting it here for us to see )

That write up should be rammed down the throats of the all t0ssers spitefully sticking the boot into Dubois

[jamesmcdonnell]

Some very weird people getting a kick out of a young prospects failure. I don't get it!

This to me is akin to a body shot that puts someone down. They are "knocked out" as they can't get up...no one calls it quitting though. They accept that the crippling body shot ended the fight. This is an accumulation of punches to his eye that are crippling enough for the man to not continue.

Dubois celarly grimaced when the sharp jab landed and there was the brief delay before he took the knee. You can only assume he felt the pain at that moment and realised he was in trouble.

I think unfortunately Dubois had been hyped way beyond his actual accomplishments, but this is hardly a new story. A big punching explosive heavyweight, with Dynamite fists, tipped to be the next big thing - until he comes unstuck.

We saw the template with Bruno, though with Bruno, the warnings signs were there when Jumbo cummings had him absolutely out on his feet.

Power is the most seductive of attributes, but as we've seen, power without the nous to deliver it, doesn't work against higher level opertors.

Unlike Gorman, Joyce wasn't going to stand playing rockem sockem robots, and see where the dice would fall, he was able to evade or ride out the big shots, and pick Dubois apart.

It's not dubois' fault, he was found wanting, and his reputation has suffered due to the manner of defeat.

It doesn't make him a coward, though you do have to question how badly he really wants it - we will see, plenty of time for redemption yet - I personally will be surprised if he is able to fully recover mentally, and also doubt he can hang at anywhere near top level - he isn't that good, and not sure he can improve much. He seems very limited in terms of his ring intelligence.

[jamesmcdonnell]

A wordy sermon from reverend Dixon

Isn’t there a middle ground where one can quite rightly say he quit but not judge him for it ?

I'd say so yes.

[cormack]

Some very weird people getting a kick out of a young prospects failure. I don't get it!

This to me is akin to a body shot that puts someone down. They are "knocked out" as they can't get up...no one calls it quitting though. They accept that the crippling body shot ended the fight. This is an accumulation of punches to his eye that are crippling enough for the man to not continue.

Dubois celarly grimaced when the sharp jab landed and there was the brief delay before he took the knee. You can only assume he felt the pain at that moment and realised he was in trouble.

I think unfortunately Dubois had been hyped way beyond his actual accomplishments, but this is hardly a new story. A big punching explosive heavyweight, with Dynamite fists, tipped to be the next big thing - until he comes unstuck.

We saw the template with Bruno, though with Bruno, the warnings signs were there when Jumbo cummings had him absolutely out on his feet.

Power is the most seductive of attributes, but as we've seen, power without the nous to deliver it, doesn't work against higher level opertors.

Unlike Gorman, Joyce wasn't going to stand playing rockem sockem robots, and see where the dice would fall, he was able to evade or ride out the big shots, and pick Dubois apart.

It's not dubois' fault, he was found wanting, and his reputation has suffered due to the manner of defeat.

It doesn't make him a coward, though you do have to question how badly he really wants it - we will see, plenty of time for redemption yet - I personally will be surprised if he is able to fully recover mentally, and also doubt he can hang at anywhere near top level - he isn't that good, and not sure he can improve much. He seems very limited in terms of his ring intelligence.

If I was Dubois I would take a long hard look at the set up / trainers etc who have had over a year to get him ready for this , yet he didnt seem ready !

[Old bones Ian]

I have seen several fights ending with boxers turning their backs with eye damage, John Mugabi against Duane Thomas, think it was a thumb and Mugabi turned his back ref called it off and everyone was saying Mugabi was a quitter.

This is the same Mugabi that had given Marvin Hagler hell for 11 rounds in a title shot months previously.

[maverick23]

Not everyone boxer can take the same amount of damage. Does that mean they're not good boxers? No.

You can take more damage going 12 rounds, than being brutally knocked out in 2-3 rounds.

Some boxers get praised goig through a 12 roudn battle, win or lose.. The fans who the boxers are pleasing, are not the ones risking anything.. It's the boxers. They're still humans.

Dub just ran into a train..

My opinion.. Dubois did quit, it has now been justified. He shouldn't be getting this much heat.

Agree 100%

[Boxing Prospect]

Very confused as to why a doctor wasn't called to look at the eye before that last round, and why the corner didn't think "save him for another day"

Likewise, imagine if you will, that fight was in Sky and Dubois was Johnny Foreigner against Joyce, they'd have been calling for the corner to jump in from round 7...

[DrDuke]

It was a quit, but it doesn't mean than Dubois is a quitter. He can't be blamed for chosing to lose a single bout instead of losing health and career.

[coghaugen11]

He quit. End of.

He's not cut out for this.

[dookus]

It was a quit, but it doesn't mean than Dubois is a quitter. He can't be blamed for chosing to lose a single bout instead of losing health and career.

Exactly.

[Wee Tommy]

Dixons article is predictable, self righteous and after the event. Dubois did quit. Dixon didn't know what the damage was at the time. People say the pain was too intense but he showed none of the signs boxers usually do when eye pain is really severe. He didn't turn his back, put his hand to his eye. He never showed signs of pain in the corner when the ends well was being pressed hard against it. Dubois was panicking early before the eye injury got bad. He couldn't handle being hit back and his huge bullying frame wasn't enough. So he quit. He was perfectly compos mentis. He decided the take the knee and sit out the count. He will never be the same again. Hes a bust. Fish eyes and bowers must be crying. Your huge Ped bully had his heart broken.

I guess he means there is no shame in doing what he did and to him he isn't a 'quitter in his eyes'. Yes of course he quit but I think the sensible thing to do in that situation and he hopefully gets to fight another day.

Yeah but Dixon virtue signalling is pathetic. After the event. People love violence, brutal kos etc in boxing. There described as 'beautiful punches'. There will always be injuries in boxing its part of the game. Long term, quitting might be good physically but mentally it shows his vulnerability

Ridiculous.

[Controversial]

Hmm it depends. Duran quit against SRL, you don't get much tougher fighters than Duran. The big test will be how Dubois handles punches in future, there's a risk he will become gun shy.

I mean he was still in the fight, was stil lgoing for it. Throwing combos. He was still concious at the time he took the knee.

Yes I didn't mean in that fight, the test will be in future fights and how he copes with taking punches to the eye again, if he loses his confidence that will be him finished.

[Cyclops]

Thanks Tris. You are the worst boxing writer on this earth and single handedly destroyed boxing news as a publication

[Loftgroov]

Whether he was right or wrong to quit is a separate debate from whether he did or not - and he did.

Of course he can come back from this, but the problem he'll always have now is opponents will know if the going gets tough he will fold.

All that said, his physique is an issue. He's more musclebound than muscular, and I can see him gassing against high calibre opponents.

[Fearful_Freddie]

By Tris Dixon

Boxing is a sport of character.

At its most fundamental, it’s fight or flight.

Through history, we measure a man’s will. We call him a warrior if he gives us his all and a coward or a quitter if we get anything less when the going gets tough.

The going got tough for Daniel Dubois on Saturday in London. He lost for the first time but it was not merely losing that caused a groundswell of debate or opinion but the manner in which he lost.

Many saw his fight with Joe Joyce as close as it wore on. Plenty had Joyce ahead but two judges favoured Dubois and one, John Latham, had ridiculously only given Joyce a couple of rounds.

That’s a column for another day, though let it be noted it’s one of the year’s very worst scorecards in another year marred by many extraordinary ones.

But when Dubois took yet another swift, hard jab onto his seriously swollen left eye he indicated that he was hurt – another no-no in this ridiculously ultra-machismo world – and he surrendered to one knee.

That in itself is not where many drew the line. It came after he’d listened to Ian John-Lewis’s 10 count and then decided to rise. That was when the scorn was poured over his character.

He was set alight on social media: aged 23, having met fire with fire in his first really arduous professional test and many branded him a ‘quitter’.

I think he made a choice but I’d never call him a quitter.

We want our boxers to make sacrifices, no matter the cost.

‘Real’ fighters have lost their lives giving it their all.

It’s seen to be better to have too much heart than too little, but who picks up the pieces when it goes very wrong because the sport certainly doesn’t.

Which union would Dubois go to for his medical bills to pay for his fractured orbital bone and the nerve damage around his left eye?

Which union would look after him if he had to retire, at just 23?

How would those call him a quitter help him through life if he was left with one eye?

This isn’t to blow things out of proportion, far from it. Labelling a fighter a quitter needs to be addressed.

Anthony Ogogo, former Olympic bronze medalist, had to retire after suffering a multitude of eye injuries. Former world lightweight champion John Murray lives blind in one eye.

In fact, too many fighters have suffered detached retinas (Frank Bruno, Jeff Chandler...) and been at risk for the rest of their days.

And Dubois is a central cog of a loving family. How would his younger siblings feel if he’d carried on but his dream was over? How would his father feel if he’d fought until there was permanent eye damage?

We, the critics, are not the ones who pick up the pieces or live with the consequences for wanting our fighters to leave every drop of themselves in the prize ring.

Yet we, the fans, scream the loudest and call people out for doing things that we ourselves would never do.

In boxing you find exceptional people who have done exceptional things.

Fighters have fought through shut eyes, with dislocated shoulders, jaws broken and swinging agape and they are idolised for it but it would take a real jerk to define Roberto Duran’s career with No Mas because it scarcely deserves an asterisks in any humane society.

What other sport or line of work is there, aside from on the front line of the military, would we expect people to keep working when staring down life changing injuries?

What kind of people are we to call someone out for getting out of the line of fire when they can’t see the fire they have to walk to to be in with a chance of turning a fight around.

Daniel Dubois doesn’t deserve the label too many people have bestowed on him.

Perhaps the way he feels about it now will stiffen his resolve in the future. Maybe he hates himself for it today.

Or maybe he will get his injuries treated, start a rebuild and come again and put it down to experience.

He might not be the next Liston or Tyson or Louis or Lewis but he doesn’t have to be. He’s on his own journey and it’s a journey that will take him far further than where he was in Church House in Westminster last night if he wants it to.

He deserves no label nor any criticism. He did what fighters do. He fought and he lost. That’s sport. That’s the game or the business, whatever you prefer to call it.

He will fight again and he will likely win and lose again but reserve judgement with the sweeping character assassinations and the ‘quitter’ cries because not only does he not deserve them but when a young, inexperienced fighter is half blind, taking stick and preserves himself for his future, his family and his livelihood sometimes making the decision not to fight in is the hardest decision any boxer will ever have to make.

Didn't know that about John Murray.

[TheLeprechaun]

Is anyone ballsy enough to say that Gerald McClellan quit?

[dookus]

Whether he was right or wrong to quit is a separate debate from whether he did or not - and he did.

Of course he can come back from this, but the problem he'll always have now is opponents will know if the going gets tough he will fold.

All that said, his physique is an issue. He's more musclebound than muscular, and I can see him gassing against high calibre opponents.

With respect, I think all they have really learned is that he'll quit if you happen to give him serious eye damage. Given that's also true of John Mugabi (see Old Bones Ian above), a certified nutter who went straight at a prime Hagler for 11 rounds, it's pretty safe to say that's going to be true of at least 90% of boxers. So not sure it makes any real difference.

On the other hand, I definitely agree that his musclebound physique is an issue. He was blowing hard by round 5 just keeping his nose in front, while Joyce looked practically serene, fresh as a daisy throughout.

[margaret thatcher]

is tris a gawd on here


dub definitely quit, there is simply no way around it. but that's doesnt mean he's a pussy or that it was an unwise move. i don't think it was cowardly or anything like that---he took plenty and fought for a while with the eye messed. serious damage. but it was too much for him by the end and he , with various justification, took a knee and decided he'd had enough.

quit: voluntarily stop or discontinue (an action or activity).

[dookus]

is tris a gawd on here


dub definitely quit, there is simply no way around it. but that's doesnt mean he's a pussy or that it was an unwise move. i don't think he showed a major lack of heart---he took plenty and fought for a while with the eye messed. serious damage. but it was too much for him by the end and he , with various justification, took a knee and decided he'd had enough.

quit: voluntarily stop or discontinue (an action or activity).

I don't dispute he quit - that's self-evident - but I find it pretty revolting that he's catching a lot of shít for it from people that should really know better. It was entirely justified and it doesn't reflect on his heart. His corner should be taking a lot more fire for sending him out when he told them after round 9 that there was a problem.

[Roco]

Some very weird people getting a kick out of a young prospects failure. I don't get it!

This to me is akin to a body shot that puts someone down. They are "knocked out" as they can't get up...no one calls it quitting though. They accept that the crippling body shot ended the fight. This is an accumulation of punches to his eye that are crippling enough for the man to not continue.

Dubois celarly grimaced when the sharp jab landed and there was the brief delay before he took the knee. You can only assume he felt the pain at that moment and realised he was in trouble.

I think unfortunately Dubois had been hyped way beyond his actual accomplishments, but this is hardly a new story. A big punching explosive heavyweight, with Dynamite fists, tipped to be the next big thing - until he comes unstuck.

We saw the template with Bruno, though with Bruno, the warnings signs were there when Jumbo cummings had him absolutely out on his feet.

Power is the most seductive of attributes, but as we've seen, power without the nous to deliver it, doesn't work against higher level opertors.

Unlike Gorman, Joyce wasn't going to stand playing rockem sockem robots, and see where the dice would fall, he was able to evade or ride out the big shots, and pick Dubois apart.

It's not dubois' fault, he was found wanting, and his reputation has suffered due to the manner of defeat.

It doesn't make him a coward, though you do have to question how badly he really wants it - we will see, plenty of time for redemption yet - I personally will be surprised if he is able to fully recover mentally, and also doubt he can hang at anywhere near top level - he isn't that good, and not sure he can improve much. He seems very limited in terms of his ring intelligence.

I don't see the comparison with Bruno here. Bruno never gave up, he was always pounded defenseless against the ropes. He never gave up, the referee saved him.