What division would Marciano fight in today?

[Onetimeonly]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say heavy

[Controversial]

Of course he may well decide to fight at HW today but he would need to be over 200lb and would that extra weight affect his stamina and endurance. He was a machine around the 185lb region. Plus of course he was a machine against guys of a similar size and weight to him, a big difference doing that against fighters so much bigger, heavier and stronger. This is always a topic of debate though, personally I think he would be too small to be as effective. He could fight at HW but LHW would be where he would have more success in my opinion, maybe CW too.

[Tuan_Jim]

It's certainly hard to picture. But if someone told you in 1985 a squat 5'10 guy with one-punch power was about to tear through the division, outjabbing 6'5 guys as he did it, you would think them insane. I can't totally rule out anyone who has shown the rare intangibles of a great fighter being successful in another era. Marciano is great, Wilder and AJ aren't. Jury still out on Fury.

[Controversial]

It's certainly hard to picture. But if someone told you in 1985 a squat 5'10 guy with one-punch power was about to tear through the division, outjabbing 6'5 guys as he did it, you would think them insane. I can't totally rule out anyone who has shown the rare intangibles of a great fighter being successful in another era. Marciano is great, Wilder and AJ aren't. Jury still out on Fury.

Yes but Tyson was still physically so much bigger plus faster and harder punching than Marciano, remember Tyson was a teenager too and still filling out in 1985. His speed and intimidation were big parts of his success. Marciano basically wore guys down and often would be in tough fights. Slugging it out with blown up LHWs is one thing, slugging it out with 6'5" 16+ stone guys is another. Size and strength does make a difference, not always of course, but when you are fighting decent fighters who are also so much bigger and heavier it plays a part. Fighters often talk about size and weight advantages being a factor, thats why there are divisions, rehydration clauses, catch weight fights and why many fighters don't try their luck by moving through the weights. Hagler was an ATG middleweight but he never tried to move up to LHW

[Tuan_Jim]

Yep, wasn't long ago that people on here stated with absolute certainty that Roy Jones couldn't beat John Ruiz. Jones couldn't hurt light heavies, had nothing to hold off Ruiz, was going to be destroyed. Words like "physics" and "science" were thrown around. Then Ruiz was hit, got spooked and stayed in his shell for 12 rounds.

More recently our more learned young users scoffed and lolled at the idea that Canelo could KO Kovalev. I mean, he's a stubby light middle who decisioned Lara, now he's somehow going to find the power and form to stop a big light heavy? Of course when El Freckles krushed Kovalev's brains they went quiet for a while.

I've seen the impossible happen in boxing too many times to rule out a special fighter being able to beat bigger ones who aren't special. A roided up Marciano putting Wilder to sleep would not be an upset imo.

[Controversial]

Yep, wasn't long ago that people on here stated with absolute certainty that Roy Jones couldn't beat John Ruiz. Jones couldn't hurt light heavies, had nothing to hold off Ruiz, was going to be destroyed. Words like "physics" and "science" were thrown around. Then Ruiz was hit, got spooked and stayed in his shell for 12 rounds.

More recently our more learned young users scoffed and lolled at the idea that Canelo could KO Kovalev. I mean, he's a stubby light middle who decisioned Lara, now he's somehow going to find the power and form to stop a big light heavy? Of course when El Freckles krushed Kovalev's brains they went quiet for a while.

I've seen the impossible happen in boxing too many times to rule out a special fighter being able to beat bigger ones who aren't special. A roided up Marciano putting Wilder to sleep would not be an upset imo.

There are exceptions to every rule but these results are often rare and normally the winner is a much more skilled fighter to start with. RJJ picked Ruiz because he was the easiest route to win a HW title and stylistically he suited him. RJJ never hung about to fight anyone else at HW. Will Canelo stay at LHW too? Boxing is often about calculated risks. I'm not saying Marciano wouldn't win fights at HW but would he be the dominant fighter and undefeated, I don't think so.

Dwight Muhammad Qawi was of similar dimensions and weight to Marciano. Qawi was a great fighter, very skilled, good pressure fighter, great engine and really tough but could you see him bulking up and having any great success at HW because I couldn't. Similar argument.

[Duran1970]

Marciano on steroids...Jesus can you imagine

[Duran1970]

Dwight qawi was 5'6"

[Controversial]

Dwight qawi was 5'6"

He’s more similar in size than Marciano was to Tyson. Qawi’s height has been listed as 5’7” in some fights, in Davis fight he was billed as 5’7.5”. Marciano’s own brother said he was 5’9”. Either way not a lot in it at all. Weights for both are similar and Qawi with the longer reach. Still same argument in regards to size in my book. Qawi was technically a better fighter too which is more important. You think Qawi could’ve been a big success at HW?

[Tuan_Jim]

Dwight qawi was 5'6"

He’s more similar in size than Marciano was to Tyson. Qawi’s height has been listed as 5’7” in some fights, in Davis fight he was billed as 5’7.5”. Marciano’s own brother said he was 5’9”. Either way not a lot in it at all. Weights for both are similar and Qawi with the longer reach. Still same argument in regards to size in my book. Qawi was technically a better fighter too which is more important. You think Qawi could’ve been a big success at HW?

I think you put too much stock in what his brother says. Maybe he was trying to aggrandise Rock's achievements -- 'he did all that in spite of him being even smaller than they say!' He looks the listed 5'10 1/2 versus opponents whose height we know.

[Controversial]

Dwight qawi was 5'6"

He’s more similar in size than Marciano was to Tyson. Qawi’s height has been listed as 5’7” in some fights, in Davis fight he was billed as 5’7.5”. Marciano’s own brother said he was 5’9”. Either way not a lot in it at all. Weights for both are similar and Qawi with the longer reach. Still same argument in regards to size in my book. Qawi was technically a better fighter too which is more important. You think Qawi could’ve been a big success at HW?

I think you put too much stock in what his brother says. Maybe he was trying to aggrandise Rock's achievements -- 'he did all that in spite of him being even smaller than they say!' He looks the listed 5'10 1/2 versus opponents whose height we know.

Heights are never accurate anyway but thats what his brother said. An inch here or there makes very little difference. Do you see Qawi having success at HW though, if not why not, as he was more skilled than Marciano and just as tough.

[Tuan_Jim]

He’s more similar in size than Marciano was to Tyson. Qawi’s height has been listed as 5’7” in some fights, in Davis fight he was billed as 5’7.5”. Marciano’s own brother said he was 5’9”. Either way not a lot in it at all. Weights for both are similar and Qawi with the longer reach. Still same argument in regards to size in my book. Qawi was technically a better fighter too which is more important. You think Qawi could’ve been a big success at HW?

I think you put too much stock in what his brother says. Maybe he was trying to aggrandise Rock's achievements -- 'he did all that in spite of him being even smaller than they say!' He looks the listed 5'10 1/2 versus opponents whose height we know.

Heights are never accurate anyway but thats what his brother said. An inch here or there makes very little difference. Do you see Qawi having success at HW though, if not why not, as he was more skilled than Marciano and just as tough.

Just as tough? I'm a Qawi fan, but he could be hit and tamed, and he quit more than once. I don't see Qawi even beating Nino Valdez, whereas I see Marciano beating Valdez half to death.

[Controversial]

I think you put too much stock in what his brother says. Maybe he was trying to aggrandise Rock's achievements -- 'he did all that in spite of him being even smaller than they say!' He looks the listed 5'10 1/2 versus opponents whose height we know.

Heights are never accurate anyway but thats what his brother said. An inch here or there makes very little difference. Do you see Qawi having success at HW though, if not why not, as he was more skilled than Marciano and just as tough.

Just as tough? I'm a Qawi fan, but he could be hit and tamed, and he quit more than once. I don't see Qawi even beating Nino Valdez, whereas I see Marciano beating Valdez half to death.

Qawi was very tough. He quit against Foreman, a fight he took at short notice when out of shape when he had only ever really fought at LHW and CW. The only other stoppage in his career was by KO to Holyfield. Technically he was still a better fighter than Marciano. So the only reason Qawi wouldn't be a success at HW was because you think he wasn't tough enough?

[Tuan_Jim]

Heights are never accurate anyway but thats what his brother said. An inch here or there makes very little difference. Do you see Qawi having success at HW though, if not why not, as he was more skilled than Marciano and just as tough.

Just as tough? I'm a Qawi fan, but he could be hit and tamed, and he quit more than once. I don't see Qawi even beating Nino Valdez, whereas I see Marciano beating Valdez half to death.

Qawi was very tough. He quit against Foreman, a fight he took at short notice when out of shape when he had only ever really fought at LHW and CW. The only other stoppage in his career was by KO to Holyfield. Technically he was still a better fighter than Marciano. So the only reason Qawi wouldn't be a success at HW was because you think he wasn't tough enough?

He also quit in the Holyfield rematch and went into his shell versus M. Spinks. He was beastly when on top, but when behind not so much. Marciano in peril with his face hanging off promptly thrashed Charles. Marciano is great. Qawi isn't.

[Controversial]

Just as tough? I'm a Qawi fan, but he could be hit and tamed, and he quit more than once. I don't see Qawi even beating Nino Valdez, whereas I see Marciano beating Valdez half to death.

Qawi was very tough. He quit against Foreman, a fight he took at short notice when out of shape when he had only ever really fought at LHW and CW. The only other stoppage in his career was by KO to Holyfield. Technically he was still a better fighter than Marciano. So the only reason Qawi wouldn't be a success at HW was because you think he wasn't tough enough?

He also quit in the Holyfield rematch and went into his shell versus M. Spinks. He was beastly when on top, but when behind not so much. Marciano in peril with his face hanging off promptly thrashed Charles. Marciano is great. Qawi isn't.

So Qawi can't be a success at HW because Marciano was tougher in your opinion, nothing to do with Qawi's size or ability? Qawi was certainly tougher than most, David Haye won a version of the HW crown and I wouldn't say someone who blames his big toe on losing or falls over anytime Klitschko hit him was tougher than Qawi but he managed to fight at HW with some success after being a CW. Do you not think Marciano would be in even tougher fights fighting 6'5" 16+ stone fighters than he was against an on the slide blown up LHW like Charles?

[Tuan_Jim]

Qawi was very tough. He quit against Foreman, a fight he took at short notice when out of shape when he had only ever really fought at LHW and CW. The only other stoppage in his career was by KO to Holyfield. Technically he was still a better fighter than Marciano. So the only reason Qawi wouldn't be a success at HW was because you think he wasn't tough enough?

He also quit in the Holyfield rematch and went into his shell versus M. Spinks. He was beastly when on top, but when behind not so much. Marciano in peril with his face hanging off promptly thrashed Charles. Marciano is great. Qawi isn't.

So Qawi can't be a success at HW because Marciano was tougher in your opinion? Nothing to do with his size or ability? Do you not think Marciano would be in even tougher fights fighting 6'5" 16+ stone fighters than he was against an on the slide blown up LHW like Charles?

6'5 16+ stone certainly sounds ominous, until you remember we're talking about distinctly not-special fighters like Deontay Wilder and Anthony Joshua, who have weak chins, soft hearts and gas when hit.

I do get your point, and I'm not saying Marciano in the modern era is a lock to be dominant, but I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because he showed such rare special qualities. In answer to the OP, he would be drawn to the heavies, and he would take advantage of the same services modern heavies do to make their physiques.

[margaret thatcher]

lol canelo was the favourite to beat kov and had the advantage in every poll here, with tons of picks by ko, weird example

[Controversial]

He also quit in the Holyfield rematch and went into his shell versus M. Spinks. He was beastly when on top, but when behind not so much. Marciano in peril with his face hanging off promptly thrashed Charles. Marciano is great. Qawi isn't.

So Qawi can't be a success at HW because Marciano was tougher in your opinion? Nothing to do with his size or ability? Do you not think Marciano would be in even tougher fights fighting 6'5" 16+ stone fighters than he was against an on the slide blown up LHW like Charles?

6'5 16+ stone certainly sounds ominous, until you remember we're talking about distinctly not-special fighters like Deontay Wilder and Anthony Joshua, who have weak chins, soft hearts and gas when hit.

I do get your point, and I'm not saying Marciano in the modern era is a lock to be dominant, but I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because he showed such rare special qualities. In answer to the OP, he would be drawn to the heavies, and he would take advantage of the same services modern heavies do to make their physiques.

Sure I wasn't thinking of him fighting anyone in particular, just the physical disadvantages at HW would be amplified. Lots of decent LHWs and CWs over the years and most don't venture in the HW division and those who do only a small percentage had major success. I'm actually a big fan of Marciano but he fought in a poor HW era against many guys nearing the end of their careers and/or former LHWs. That helped him for sure. Plonk Marciano in the 60s/70s and he wouldn't have been 49-0

[Ambling Alp II]

We need to get away from being obsessed with size. Maybe 6'3-6'4 and 215-225 is ideal. However, there is going to be exceptions from time to time. This happens in other sports. Dennis Rodman was not anywhere near the biggest guy in the NBA, but led the league in rebounding several times. Charles Barkley was shorter and was one of the top rebounders for a long time.

Bob Fitzsimmons was smaller in his era. He did well against bigger opponents, some much bigger.
There are 250 pound plus guys like Whitaker that could not punch at all. There are big guys like Buster Mathis Sr. who could move very well.
If a guy who weighs 185 can puncher harder than a guy well over 200, so be it.

[Controversial]

We need to get away from being obsessed with size. Maybe 6'3-6'4 and 215-225 is ideal. However, there is going to be exceptions from time to time. This happens in other sports. Dennis Rodman was not anywhere near the biggest guy in the NBA, but led the league in rebounding several times. Charles Barkley was shorter and was one of the top rebounders for a long time.

Bob Fitzsimmons was smaller in his era. He did well against bigger opponents, some much bigger.
There are 250 pound plus guys like Whitaker that could not punch at all. There are big guys like Buster Mathis Sr. who could move very well.
If a guy who weighs 185 can puncher harder than a guy well over 200, so be it.

Yes of course size isn't the be all and end all. But Marciano never fought anyone those dimensions who was world class. You bulk Marciano up to 215 he likely losses stamina. Yes he punched hard but he was fighting guys his size in most cases, with the odd exception. Marciano had 38 fights against guys under 200lb. Only 5 opponents weighed over 210. When they were much bigger, as in today sized HW, they were normally journeymen. Size does matter, not always granted, but when the opponent is world class or can fight then it comes into play.

[Cojimar 1946]

We need to get away from being obsessed with size. Maybe 6'3-6'4 and 215-225 is ideal. However, there is going to be exceptions from time to time. This happens in other sports. Dennis Rodman was not anywhere near the biggest guy in the NBA, but led the league in rebounding several times. Charles Barkley was shorter and was one of the top rebounders for a long time.

Bob Fitzsimmons was smaller in his era. He did well against bigger opponents, some much bigger.
There are 250 pound plus guys like Whitaker that could not punch at all. There are big guys like Buster Mathis Sr. who could move very well.
If a guy who weighs 185 can puncher harder than a guy well over 200, so be it.

The trend has changed dramatically over time though.

If you go far back enough guys even the size of Foreman and Holmes nearly always lost to smaller heavyweights weighing in the 180s and 190s. Then starting in the 1960s/1970s they started getting more athletic and generally winning against the smaller guys.

From the late 1950s to the early 1990s the 210s seemed to be the optimal size for heavyweights but prior to that the best heavyweights were usually in the 180s.

6'3-6'4 and 215-225 was certainly not ideal back in the 1930s or 1940s.

[Duran1970]

To compare qawi with Marciano is ludicrous

[Ambling Alp II]

We need to get away from being obsessed with size. Maybe 6'3-6'4 and 215-225 is ideal. However, there is going to be exceptions from time to time. This happens in other sports. Dennis Rodman was not anywhere near the biggest guy in the NBA, but led the league in rebounding several times. Charles Barkley was shorter and was one of the top rebounders for a long time.

Bob Fitzsimmons was smaller in his era. He did well against bigger opponents, some much bigger.
There are 250 pound plus guys like Whitaker that could not punch at all. There are big guys like Buster Mathis Sr. who could move very well.
If a guy who weighs 185 can puncher harder than a guy well over 200, so be it.

Yes of course size isn't the be all and end all. But Marciano never fought anyone those dimensions who was world class. You bulk Marciano up to 215 he likely losses stamina. Yes he punched hard but he was fighting guys his size in most cases, with the odd exception. Marciano had 38 fights against guys under 200lb. Only 5 opponents weighed over 210. When they were much bigger, as in today sized HW, they were normally journeymen. Size does matter, not always granted, but when the opponent is world class or can fight then it comes into play.

Not quite that big, but bigger than him. Walcott, was around 200 and looked closer to 220. Louis (granted an older Louis), was almost that big.
I don't think Marciano would have weighed 215. He would have probably weigh under 200. He would still be one of the hardest punchers in the sport, and would have the highest work rate. You would also have to consider this: They would have to adjust to him. They would be facing a guy who had a much faster work rate than what they were used to.
Dempsey (who was not much bigger) crushed big heavyweights. Not hard to imagine Marciano doing the same. It Certainly would not be hopeless.

[oogiebe]

To compare qawi with Marciano is ludicrous

Right?! Beyond ridiculous.

[bwu]

It seems that we’re making this overly complicated. The answer is simple: He would do what any smart professional would do, and follow the money. He might start at cruiser, but he would wind up at heavy.