Levels Of Past heavyweights (DRAFT 2)

Crease · Post by **Crease** » 03 Jul 2006, 13:57

Here is a revised sheet of level (different classes) of past Heavyweight which goes further down the levels and contains even more Heavyweights...

(NOTE: You may disagree with some of my ratings, please adjust them to suit your own opinion and add in Heavyweights that you feel belong in according leagues. You may notice that U've thrown in some Light Hevaweights, I've put them in because at one point they were in The Rings Top 10 Heavweights Rankings...

All opinions will be appreciated and respected...

LEAGUE 1: (The Legends)
Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, "Smokin" Joe Frazier, "Big" George Foreman, Jack Dempsey, Jack Johnson, "Iron" Mike Tyson, Larry Holmes.

LEAGUE 2: (The Unforgettable Greats)
John L. Sullivan, Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, Floyd Patterson, Sonny Liston, Max Schmeling, Lennox Lewis, James J. Jeffries.

LEAGUE 3:
Gene Tunney, James J. Corbett, Max Baer, Sam Langford, Ken Norton, Evander Holyfield, Harry Wills.

LEAGUE 4:
Peter Jackson, Joe Jeanette, Bob Fitzsimmons, Jack Sharkey, James J. Braddock, Ingemar Johansson, Sam McVey, George Godfrey, Elmer Ray, Billy Conn, Harry Greb.

LEAGUE 5 :
Jess Willard, Marvin Hart, Tommy Burns, Riddick Bowe, Jerry Quarry, Tim Witherspoon, Jimmy Young, Roland LaStarza, Primo Carnera, Ingemar Johansson, Jimmy Bivins, Joey Maxim.

LEAGUE 6:
Leon Spinks, Vitali Klitchsko, Chris Byrd, Pinklon Thomas, Ike Ibeabuchi, James "Buster Douglas", Ernie Tyrell, Jimmy Ellis, Gerry Cooney, Harry "Kid Matthews, Luis Angel Firpo, Oscar Bonavena, George Chuvalo.

LEAGUE 7:
Ron Lyle, Rex Layne, Lee Savold, Hasim Rahamn, John Ruiz, Tom Heeney, Trevor Berbick, Michael Spinks, Nino Valdes, Larry Gains, Eddie Machen, Cleveland Williams, Zora Folley.

LEAGUE 8:
Michael Moorer, Ray Mercer, Nikolai Valuev, Andrew Golgota

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 03 Jul 2006, 14:07

did you mean to repeat 3,4 and 5? Or are those new additions to those catagories?

Crease · Post by **Crease** » 03 Jul 2006, 14:08

So here are the new leagues and I've added in about a dozen new boxers...

BTW, as you can see, I think very highly of the young Mike Tyson, I believe that Tyson (at his peak) is the best Hevayweight of the last 20 years...

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 04 Jul 2006, 01:04

I'd put "Neon" Leon Spinks in League 8

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 04 Jul 2006, 10:48

Holyfield is 3 but Tyson is 1??? I don't agree with that at all. Patterson is not league 2. I also think Wills could make league 2.

tboy100 · Post by **tboy100** » 04 Jul 2006, 21:57

I would have thought Eddie Machen deserved a bit higher. Quality fighter, had a few bad losses though. Riddick Bowe at his best might have been lower first div or higher second thereabouts?
Harry Greb in div 4 seems odd but relevant? I cant help but think of Greb whacking Bowe below the belt, then getting slammed out of the ring by him (bowe). Follow this with Bowe's mate with the mobile going after the back of greb's head. heh heh !!

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 04 Jul 2006, 22:00

Ezzard wrote:Holyfield is 3 but Tyson is 1??? I don't agree with that at all. Patterson is not league 2. I also think Wills could make league 2.

..... and especially Sam Langford. And Gene Tunney (after all he kicked Dempsey's ass). Both are "unforgettable great ones" without a whisker of a doubt.

Harry Greb never fought at heavyweight, he only sparred with Dempsey (and apparently owned him). Greb can only be at level 1 or nowhere.

However, this rating makes more sense overall than the previous one.

Cheers, P

Crease · Post by **Crease** » 05 Jul 2006, 11:49

What's everyones else opinions...

Why not do your own top 3 leagues and gon on from there...

JCS · Post by **JCS** » 05 Jul 2006, 12:40

Tyson should not be league 1. Whatever league he's in.. he should be right beside Holyfield and Lewis.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 05 Jul 2006, 12:41

OK, my top 3 leagues. NOTE: there are a couple of "league 2" fighters who I would rate above Dempsey and Marciano in an "all-time" rating - and many I'd rate above Sulivan - but there can be no doubt that these were legends.

LEAGUE 1: (The Legends)
Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Jack Dempsey, Jack Johnson, Larry Holmes, John L Sullivan

LEAGUE 2: (The Unforgettable Very Greats)
Floyd Patterson, Sonny Liston, Max Schmeling, Lennox Lewis, James J. Jeffries, Gene Tunney, Sam Langford, "Iron" Mike Tyson, "Smokin" Joe Frazier, "Big" George Foreman, James J. Corbett

LEAGUE 3: (The Unforgettable Greats)
Max Baer, Ken Norton, Evander Holyfield, Harry Wills, Peter Jackson, Joe Jeanette, Bob Fitzsimmons, Jack Sharkey, James J. Braddock, Ingemar Johansson, Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles (Charles is a light-heavyweight legend though).

Several fighters are borderline (e.g., some may wanna move Holy up and Tyson/Lennox down)

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 05 Jul 2006, 12:46

pundit wrote:LEAGUE 1: (The Legends)
Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Jack Dempsey, Jack Johnson, Larry Holmes, John L Sullivan

John L is definitely a legend.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 05 Jul 2006, 14:30

And Gene Tunney (after all he kicked Dempsey's ass).

dempsey was far past his prime and out of shape

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 05 Jul 2006, 14:33

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
And Gene Tunney (after all he kicked Dempsey's ass).
dempsey was far past his prime and out of shape

So when was he in his prime? When he got owned by Harry Greb in sparring?
Or when he beat up the bums Firpo and Willard (widely considered his greatest wins)?

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 05 Jul 2006, 15:10

pundit wrote:
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
And Gene Tunney (after all he kicked Dempsey's ass).
dempsey was far past his prime and out of shape
So when was he in his prime? When he got owned by Harry Greb in sparring?
Or when he beat up the bums Firpo and Willard (widely considered his greatest wins)?

that respone is loaded with such bias bullshit theres no point in me trying to refute it

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 05 Jul 2006, 15:29

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
pundit wrote:
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote: dempsey was far past his prime and out of shape
So when was he in his prime? When he got owned by Harry Greb in sparring?
Or when he beat up the bums Firpo and Willard (widely considered his greatest wins)?

that respone is loaded with such bias bullshit theres no point in me trying to refute it

EDITED RESPONSE:

So when was Dempsey in his prime? In 1919 for example, or in 1923?

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 05 Jul 2006, 22:21

Crease wrote:Here is a revised sheet of level (different classes) of past Heavyweight which goes further down the levels and contains even more Heavyweights...

(NOTE: You may disagree with some of my ratings, please adjust them to suit your own opinion and add in Heavyweights that you feel belong in according leagues. You may notice that U've thrown in some Light Hevaweights, I've put them in because at one point they were in The Rings Top 10 Heavweights Rankings...

All opinions will be appreciated and respected...

LEAGUE 1: (The Legends)
Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, "Smokin" Joe Frazier, "Big" George Foreman, Jack Dempsey, Jack Johnson, "Iron" Mike Tyson, Larry Holmes.

LEAGUE 2: (The Unforgettable Greats)
John L. Sullivan, Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, Floyd Patterson, Sonny Liston, Max Schmeling, Lennox Lewis, James J. Jeffries.

LEAGUE 3:
Gene Tunney, James J. Corbett, Max Baer, Sam Langford, Ken Norton, Evander Holyfield, Harry Wills.

LEAGUE 4:
Peter Jackson, Joe Jeanette, Bob Fitzsimmons, Jack Sharkey, James J. Braddock, Ingemar Johansson, Sam McVey, George Godfrey, Elmer Ray, Billy Conn, Harry Greb.

LEAGUE 5 :
Jess Willard, Marvin Hart, Tommy Burns, Riddick Bowe, Jerry Quarry, Tim Witherspoon, Jimmy Young, Roland LaStarza, Primo Carnera, Ingemar Johansson, Jimmy Bivins, Joey Maxim.

LEAGUE 6:
Leon Spinks, Vitali Klitchsko, Chris Byrd, Pinklon Thomas, Ike Ibeabuchi, James "Buster Douglas", Ernie Tyrell, Jimmy Ellis, Gerry Cooney, Harry "Kid Matthews, Luis Angel Firpo, Oscar Bonavena, George Chuvalo.

LEAGUE 7:
Ron Lyle, Rex Layne, Lee Savold, Hasim Rahamn, John Ruiz, Tom Heeney, Trevor Berbick, Michael Spinks, Nino Valdes, Larry Gains, Eddie Machen, Cleveland Williams, Zora Folley.

LEAGUE 8:
Michael Moorer, Ray Mercer, Nikolai Valuev, Andrew Golgota

Well, it's a bit better than the previous draft but still has some problems.
As others have mentioned, Tyson doesn't deserve to be any higher than Holyfield and Lewis. He didn't do any more, it's that simple. He probably should be in Level 2 instead of Level 1.

Archie Moore is way too high to be at Level 2. He should be several Levels lower at heavyweight.
Holyfield should be moved from Level 3 to Level 2.
Conn didn't do enough at lightheavy to deserve to be at Level 4.
Greb did occasionally beat heavyweights but no one even in Level 8. It doesn't make sense for him to be in Level 4.

Bowe at Level 5? With Willard, Burns, Hart, Joey Maxim? He was much, much, better than these guys. He should be at least in Level 3.

Joey Maxim at Level 5? This is another guy who was good at another weight,but wasn't at this Level as a heavyweight.

Moorer and Mercer at Level 8? both should be at either Level 4 or 5.

Levels Of Past heavyweights (DRAFT 2)

Levels Of Past heavyweights (DRAFT 2)

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