Canelo - Where are you given the positives and negatives

[jameswilson]

Obviously Canelo is one of the very best current boxers P4P. Enormously popular. Seems to fight the very best at many different weights.

However there’s steroid accusations, he seems to be favoured by judges, he seems to leave it late to name opponents meaning they have limited camps, signs them up to daft demands etc. I may have missed some here.


What are your thoughts on him once you add everything up?

[Counter-puncher]

The dragging fighters like Hatton and Josesito Lopez up in weight as lambs to the slaughter used to rile me.

As for the rest, steroids pah they all do it

He’s a superb fighter who has improved his entire career, and he’s taken on a fair few decent challenges, there’s a lot to like I suppose.

[jameswilson]

Just watching a Liam Smith interview. He says when he fought Canelo the rumour on the night was that Canelo put 25lbs on after the weigh in, Smith said he thought bollocks but then when the fight started he believed it as Liam himself said he put 17lbs on.

Are there any posts or info on how much Canelo and Kovalev weighed on fight night?

[coghaugen11]

Saunders is juiced up to the gills between fights.

Yeah Canelo’s team are pudenda, not the fighter himself.

[deadpan]

I detest him. I'm sure he can live with that.
It's impossible for him to be allowed to be outpointed. So I'll have to hope that someone lands a haymaker on that mirthless face.

[KiwiRider]

Has he had favorable judges?
When it really counted, I would have to say yes. Mostly they haven't been needed. So it's not a huge thing, in the scale of his many fights.
As for the steroids, I would say probably over maybe.
As for him as a boxer, definitely a gradual improver blessed with a chin that has allowed him to keep winning while he has improved.
Is he an ATG?
In my view, I think he has to be considered. And he still has time to further cement that. His boxing style says longevity to me.
That knee of his may be an issue later on.

[Counter-puncher]

His boxing style says longevity to me.

Excellent point mate good body movement and defence plus counterpunching heavy hands, hmmm sounds familiar.

ATG? I’m going to say guardedly yes already. He’s going to have been a top 5 p4p fighter at worst, for a decade or more, by the time he retires. If he hasn’t edged there already he definitely will. The performance against GGG in the second fight was that of an ATG, in my opinion that fight alone says he’s there whatever the cards (I think I had it even but wouldn’t argue 7-5 either way but the score is t the point, to me that was a fight between two ATG middleweights, it’s had a level of quality only two ATG’s can produce, IMO)

[KiwiRider]

His boxing style says longevity to me.

Excellent point mate good body movement and defence plus counterpunching heavy hands, hmmm sounds familiar.

Also his work rate CP.
It's never been frenetic
It is the calculated output of a seasoned pro, the type that does carry through to late 30's.

[margaret thatcher]

excellent fighter with an excellent resume, there is the drug issue of course, but most of it is just hate because he's a star, all the superstars get it, people tend to hate the big hyped establishment guy

[Counter-puncher]

His boxing style says longevity to me.

Excellent point mate good body movement and defence plus counterpunching heavy hands, hmmm sounds familiar.

Also his work rate CP.
It's never been frenetic
It is the calculated output of a seasoned pro, the type that does carry through to late 30's.

[Jimmy2020]

He's exceptional.

Re:25lbs after weigh in. My take.

I ran an experiment on myself as diet, nutrition and weight manipulation are something I'm involved in.

At the start of the cut I was 195cm and 93kg. My target was 84kg (MMA middleweight limit). My bodyfat percentage was circa 9%, which is lean by almost any standards other than contest bodybuilders.

9kg cut. This was moderately difficult. Starting Sunday I used a water loading, glycogen and sodium manipulation protocol I modified only slightly from ones easily found online. On Thursday (Friday weigh in), I stopped fluids and food, used a very hot bath on and off until the early hours of Friday and got to 84.5kg. Went to bed and woke up just underweight at 83.7kg. I didn't use diuretics.

Over the course of the next 24 hours I began steadily but consistently taking in Gatorade, a litre per hour (1kg), along with initially high glycemic carbs and then later low glycemic carbs, I salted everything.

By the following morning I was 91.4kg. (a 7.8kg approx 17lb gain). Bearing in mind I am a lot bigger than Canelo, what else must he have done to gain 25lbs?

Our bodyfat percentage was similar (it's not now ) so we can rule out that being a factor (the lower your bodyfat percentage when you start the cut, the more weight you can cut).

I suspect diuretic use in the cutting phase and possibly other methods too. He might go harder at it with the baths/saunas/exercise in the final hours but I'm not sure he'd want to fatigue himself too much. I think it is a near certainty he uses IV to get his weight back up. I think 25lbs does seem far fetched for someone of his size but it is possible.

[Counter-puncher]

interesting info

[cormack]

I would like to see him in a fight over in the Uk , outside of the comfort zone and biased judges.

He is clearly talented and very strong at 160 / 168 even , is he getting extra help in the form of peds ?
There has clearly been a lot of Lambs to slaughter !

[Coco]

Little Floyd schooled him. I was amazed at one of the judges giving it a draw

[Jimmy2020]

Little Floyd schooled him. I was amazed at one of the judges giving it a draw

Would you agree that Canelo has improved significantly since then?

[Coco]

Little Floyd schooled him. I was amazed at one of the judges giving it a draw

Would you agree that Canelo has improved significantly since then?

He has got bigger!

PBF gave away a lot of natural weight that night and was 36 so for me certainly stands well above Alvarez in TBE rankings

[Jimmy2020]

Little Floyd schooled him. I was amazed at one of the judges giving it a draw

Would you agree that Canelo has improved significantly since then?

He has got bigger!

PBF gave away a lot of natural weight that night and was 36 so for me certainly stands well above Alvarez in TBE rankings

Politician's answer there, Coco. Yes, he's got bigger. Do you think he has got significantly better since, though? You know your stuff and I'd like to know your opinion.

[Coco]

Would you agree that Canelo has improved significantly since then?

He has got bigger!

PBF gave away a lot of natural weight that night and was 36 so for me certainly stands well above Alvarez in TBE rankings

Politician's answer there, Coco. Yes, he's got bigger. Do you think he has got significantly better since, though? You know your stuff and I'd like to know your opinion.

Tbh of course he has got better, the Floyd schooling was a good lesson, now he is more patient and savvy.
Nevertheless as was shown against Amir Khan, he was soundly outboxed before taking the chinny welterweight out with one shot.

[Delta Jay]

I hate him until the first bell goes, usually. Probably still hate him once he’s fighting Callum but normally that’s what happens.

[Ezzard]

He's a great fighter. But yes the cards favour him. He had a wide gash that didn't bleed. He failed a test. His hand speed has got magically so much quicker. But he's absolutely brilliant at what he does.

I thought he beat Trout convincingly.
Lara was 6-6 on my score card.
I thought he did better than most though when losing to Mayweather but he still lost.
He lost both fights to Golovkin but his performance in the second fight was brilliant.

[Autobarn]

I’d say the long promised greatness has arrived. At some point he’s gone from boy to man. Going up in weight has helped but I also think the Golovkin fights were a baptism of fire that made him fight with more assertiveness.

Just look how he’s gone from hanging back, taking breathers after flashy combos, giving frustratingly impartial performances vs Liam Smith, Golovkin 1 and Chavez Jr... to this super economical tank who fights on the front foot, forces the other guy to do the work before punishing him: vs Golovkin 2, Kovalev and Callum Smith. Throw in Fielding as it was a lovely showcase. He’s not gassing anymore and is more authoritative.

I’m still not sure if he beat Golovkin but he did show flashes of greatness in there and now we’re seeing a more committed and assertive fighter. I don’t think this great peak will last too long, due to slow legs and throwing one punch at a time, so I hope he see the hardest fights like Bivol and Beterbiev.

Canelo is also one of the great handicappers of the modern age, akin to Sugar Ray Leonard when he came out of retirement. He also demonstrates crafty moves akin to a late career Duran. That’s a double edged sword as Canelo is still young but one think I’ve always liked is his maturity.

If he fights any more old or weight weakened fighters, the same thing will happen either as to Kovalev or Callum Smith. Don’t see Bivol coming down and beating this chunky Dalek of a fighter. I think proper catchweight v Bivol and Beterbiev would be fair.

[DrDuke]

Canelo is a great fighter, he'll be in a HOF.

The thing is, today it's common to hype fighters, to help them from the outside, to track them with corrupt methods. As if the great should only win. That's a stupid move to satisfy stupid casuals.

Look at the history, look at the records of Greb, Monzon, Benvenuti, Griffith, Moore, etc, etc, etc. All of them didn't have "clean" records by the moments of becoming great.

In my eyes Canelo lost to Mayweather, Lara and Golovkin in the 1st fight and there's nothing bad in it. The bad is in the draw scorecard of the Mayweather bout, in the wide pro-Canelo score in the Lara bout (and Cotto), in the draw in the Golovkin bout.

So, f*ck modern hype jobs and corrupt tracking methods.

[THEBUTCH]

2 negatives are, IMO, he lost both fights against Golovkin.

He is, of course, a terrific boxer. Measured, patient and powerful.

No one, however, should accept anything less that his next fight being against Arthur Beterbiev at 12st 7lbs

[brilo33]

i dont know the out side stuff, but when i saw this ginger mexican kid fighting on a bill over 10 years ago i remember telling me brother about him ,an aggressive come forward puncher this ginger kid is going places ,and he hasnt changed much apart from improving on his footwork he has got so much better at cutting the ring so well , he is also so much smater and experienced thinking fighter now.and no fight no more proves that than the triple g fights , yeah i could give triple g the first fight, but the second one, was all on saul he had to change it up and he did , he went at triple g , and won that fight for me because of that