Vasyl Lomachenko vs Teofimo Lopez 17/10/20

[ash.123]

Let’s see Lopez in with someone his own size soon - like the man from Edinburgh.

This! Would be a great watch.

Imagine. The 135 undisputed (pretty much) vs the 140 undisputed (if he beats Ramirez). Both with Top Rank, both likeable guys, both unbeaten, both got multiple belts in a very short space of time, both in their prime.

Exciting times for 135-147 at the minute. So many good fights to make.

[NoScoutingReports]

Let’s see Lopez in with someone his own size soon - like the man from Edinburgh.

This! Would be a great watch.

Imagine. The 135 undisputed (pretty much) vs the 140 undisputed (if he beats Ramirez). Both with Top Rank, both likeable guys, both unbeaten, both got multiple belts in a very short space of time, both in their prime.

Exciting times for 135-147 at the minute. So many good fights to make.

Would be sensational. Let's hope Taylor/Ramirez gets made shortly, looks a certainty with no promotional obstacles however this is boxing so taking nothing for granted!

[Boxerbeetle]

Ok, I don't see why, but you can't change how you feel. He rallied best as he could.

And I think that's where we'll have to politely disagree. As many others have already commented, he effectively gave away the fight by not doing anything in the entire first half of the fight. For me, there's no way of reconciling that with the idea he rallied as best he could.

Loma's a pretty short-armed dude without a big punch (especially at 135) who was out-sped by a dude with a bigger punch and longer arms. Even when loma was producing more activity later in the fight, Lopez was whistling the counters back at him in a way that way always dangerous.

I think the call that Loma could/should have rolled the dice is just a tad unfair, or more like what I want to say, an unrealistic expectation. The fighters able to change the style completely, on a dime, when they are down in a fight, against a fellow elite fighter- they are few and far between and IMO the very fact that you quote Leonard vs Hearns as an example illustrates that (he's the exception to the rule).

For one thing for some fighters, their style is so evolved and ingrained in them, that I'm not sure if they aren't literally unable to change it, too many habits, too deeply inculcated in them, over too long a period of time*. Loma's whole style has been about using his footwork, feints and overall movement, to put him in a position where he eventually could throw combinations with relatively low risk, as by the time Loma was letting his hands go, his opponents had been so overwhelmed at the level of skills/tactics, that their boxing brains were basically fried.

If he doesn't manage to procure for himself that pronounced advantage and mental edge in the fight based on skills (where he has basically managed to make his opponents essentially passive, by the time he is letting his hands go at them), if his opponent is still in the fight technically, still able to stay poised and ready to counter amidst all the feints Loma is throwing, then I can't see Loma being able to commit to any more.

basically, TLDR, Loma built a style and relied on it completely, so completely that he couldn't bring himself out of it when it mattered.


*imagine if Mayweather had been in the same position. Do any of us think he would have ended up throwing caution to the wind/rolling the dice/insert cliche here, and really let his hands go in the last few rounds? Nah. whilst the other dude is a threat, Floyd's hands are staying at home for the most part. It's why i don't see it as a huge criticism of Loma, not changing his style. Very few do, as virtually none of them can, and that's especially true of fighters like Loma and Floyd where the style is the fighter (you know like where some fighters are like the sum total of their physical attributes, and some are pure expressions of their styles? something like that)

I dunno about the Floyd comparison, he was bloody brilliant at letting his hands go at the lower weights during his ‘Pretty Boy’ incarnation, had a very different style to his latter career. I often used to wonder how he would have fared during his ‘Money’ period if he’d have been forced to fight more like his old self, would have loved to see it.

[Counter-puncher]

Let’s see Lopez in with someone his own size soon - like the man from Edinburgh.

This! Would be a great watch.

Imagine. The 135 undisputed (pretty much) vs the 140 undisputed (if he beats Ramirez).

Funnily enough I was thinking about a Taylor fight about 4 rounds into the fight

[Counter-puncher]

And I think that's where we'll have to politely disagree. As many others have already commented, he effectively gave away the fight by not doing anything in the entire first half of the fight. For me, there's no way of reconciling that with the idea he rallied as best he could.

Loma's a pretty short-armed dude without a big punch (especially at 135) who was out-sped by a dude with a bigger punch and longer arms. Even when loma was producing more activity later in the fight, Lopez was whistling the counters back at him in a way that way always dangerous.

I think the call that Loma could/should have rolled the dice is just a tad unfair, or more like what I want to say, an unrealistic expectation. The fighters able to change the style completely, on a dime, when they are down in a fight, against a fellow elite fighter- they are few and far between and IMO the very fact that you quote Leonard vs Hearns as an example illustrates that (he's the exception to the rule).

For one thing for some fighters, their style is so evolved and ingrained in them, that I'm not sure if they aren't literally unable to change it, too many habits, too deeply inculcated in them, over too long a period of time*. Loma's whole style has been about using his footwork, feints and overall movement, to put him in a position where he eventually could throw combinations with relatively low risk, as by the time Loma was letting his hands go, his opponents had been so overwhelmed at the level of skills/tactics, that their boxing brains were basically fried.

If he doesn't manage to procure for himself that pronounced advantage and mental edge in the fight based on skills (where he has basically managed to make his opponents essentially passive, by the time he is letting his hands go at them), if his opponent is still in the fight technically, still able to stay poised and ready to counter amidst all the feints Loma is throwing, then I can't see Loma being able to commit to any more.

basically, TLDR, Loma built a style and relied on it completely, so completely that he couldn't bring himself out of it when it mattered.


*imagine if Mayweather had been in the same position. Do any of us think he would have ended up throwing caution to the wind/rolling the dice/insert cliche here, and really let his hands go in the last few rounds? Nah. whilst the other dude is a threat, Floyd's hands are staying at home for the most part. It's why i don't see it as a huge criticism of Loma, not changing his style. Very few do, as virtually none of them can, and that's especially true of fighters like Loma and Floyd where the style is the fighter (you know like where some fighters are like the sum total of their physical attributes, and some are pure expressions of their styles? something like that)

I dunno about the Floyd comparison, he was bloody brilliant at letting his hands go at the lower weights during his ‘Pretty Boy’ incarnation, had a very different style to his latter career.

yeah true that and good point, probably fair to say that he didn't really let his hands go against anyone who was a threat to hurt him, though (IE anyone much above 140?). he let his hands go when he was dominating (Hatton) or against greatly outmatched opponents (Gatti etc)

[THEBUTCH]

Loma's entitled to an off night. The big difference between the comparison made to Sugar Ray Leonard, with Loma not having a few legends on his resume is that Vasyl debuted against top tier opposition and since his 2nd pro fight has boxed in world championship contests the whole way.

The weight probably was an issue but you still don't beat the likes of Linares, Crolla and Campbell if you can't compete at 9st 9lbs. It might be Lopez is the next big thing in boxing, so no disgrace losing a close one on points. That said, Loma was hugely disappointing for the first half of the fight.

[Deserter]

I think the call that Loma could/should have rolled the dice is just a tad unfair, or more like what I want to say, an unrealistic expectation. The fighters able to change the style completely, on a dime, when they are down in a fight, against a fellow elite fighter- they are few and far between and IMO the very fact that you quote Leonard vs Hearns as an example illustrates that (he's the exception to the rule).

But my point is I considered Loma to potentially be in those ranks. Either way, you don't expect a truly elite fighter with his experience to do nothing for half the fight - Floyd made adjustments against Zab after experiencing initial challenges because of Judah's speed, for example.

[TheLeprechaun]

Ok, I don't see why, but you can't change how you feel. He rallied best as he could.

And I think that's where we'll have to politely disagree. As many others have already commented, he effectively gave away the fight by not doing anything in the entire first half of the fight. For me, there's no way of reconciling that with the idea he rallied as best he could.

Loma's a pretty short-armed dude without a big punch (especially at 135) who was out-sped by a dude with a bigger punch and longer arms. Even when loma was producing more activity later in the fight, Lopez was whistling the counters back at him in a way that way always dangerous.

I think the call that Loma could/should have rolled the dice is just a tad unfair, or more like what I want to say, an unrealistic expectation. The fighters able to change the style completely, on a dime, when they are down in a fight, against a fellow elite fighter- they are few and far between and IMO the very fact that you quote Leonard vs Hearns as an example illustrates that (he's the exception to the rule).

For one thing for some fighters, their style is so evolved and ingrained in them, that I'm not sure if they aren't literally unable to change it, too many habits, too deeply inculcated in them, over too long a period of time*. Loma's whole style has been about using his footwork, feints and overall movement, to put him in a position where he eventually could throw combinations with relatively low risk, as by the time Loma was letting his hands go, his opponents had been so overwhelmed at the level of skills/tactics, that their boxing brains were basically fried.

If he doesn't manage to procure for himself that pronounced advantage and mental edge in the fight based on skills (where he has basically managed to make his opponents essentially passive, by the time he is letting his hands go at them), if his opponent is still in the fight technically, still able to stay poised and ready to counter amidst all the feints Loma is throwing, then I can't see Loma being able to commit to any more.

basically, TLDR, Loma built a style and relied on it completely, so completely that he couldn't bring himself out of it when it mattered.


*imagine if Mayweather had been in the same position. Do any of us think he would have ended up throwing caution to the wind/rolling the dice/insert cliche here, and really let his hands go in the last few rounds? Nah. whilst the other dude is a threat, Floyd's hands are staying at home for the most part. It's why i don't see it as a huge criticism of Loma, not changing his style. Very few do, as virtually none of them can, and that's especially true of fighters like Loma and Floyd where the style is the fighter (you know like where some fighters are like the sum total of their physical attributes, and some are pure expressions of their styles? something like that)

Good post. One thing I would say about Floyd is he did show the ability to put up a high guard and walk fighters down. Particularly southpaws. I rewatched the Judah fight recently and gave Judah the first 4 rounds including a knockdown that wasn't scored. He was giving him a bit of a hiding getting the left hand off. Floyd put up the high guard and just started walking him down. Did the same against Corley even after getting hurt. I think he had the ability to switch it up.

[Counter-puncher]

yeah you can walk Judah down behind a high guard*..... wouldn't like to try it against Lopez tbh

kind of became his default posture against lefties IIRC

[Counter-puncher]

. He was giving him a bit of a hiding getting the left hand off

bit of a hiding? he landed like 6 or 11 punches a round, come on. a hiding indeed, nay pudendum gave floyd a hiding. even a bit of one.

[TheLeprechaun]

. He was giving him a bit of a hiding getting the left hand off

bit of a hiding? he landed like 6 or 11 punches a round, come on. a hiding indeed, nay pudendum gave floyd a hiding. even a bit of one.

Floyd was getting his ass kicked. I knew Judah won the early rounds from memory but watching it again it was surprising how often he was catching Floyd. Too fast early on.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Loma's entitled to an off night. The big difference between the comparison made to Sugar Ray Leonard, with Loma not having a few legends on his resume is that Vasyl debuted against top tier opposition and since his 2nd pro fight has boxed in world championship contests the whole way.

The weight probably was an issue but you still don't beat the likes of Linares, Crolla and Campbell if you can't compete at 9st 9lbs. It might be Lopez is the next big thing in boxing, so no disgrace losing a close one on points. That said, Loma was hugely disappointing for the first half of the fight.

No shame in him losing to a naturally bigger man, especially a good one who clearly had a game plan.

I wonder if lona will want a rematch, I've a feeling he will feel he has to to prove it to himself.

[Counter-puncher]

. He was giving him a bit of a hiding getting the left hand off

bit of a hiding? he landed like 6 or 11 punches a round, come on. a hiding indeed, nay pudendum gave floyd a hiding. even a bit of one.

Floyd was getting his ass kicked. I knew Judah won the early rounds from memory but watching it again it was surprising how often he was catching Floyd. Too fast early on.

Getting his ass kicked? Ok

[PredatorHayds]

I had it really wide for Lopez.
I didn’t see it being close at all.

[Onetimeonly]

. He was giving him a bit of a hiding getting the left hand off

bit of a hiding? he landed like 6 or 11 punches a round, come on. a hiding indeed, nay pudendum gave floyd a hiding. even a bit of one.

One thing with Floyd is he was hurt twice, corley and Shane, he was kicking both of their asses at the end of the same round. Good post on loma, those whistling counters when he did punch early barely missed. Ballsy late, just outgunned.

[Ezzard]

Living in Portugal and only just got to see it.

I was not that surprised. Lomachenko has looked over the brow of the hill in his last few. And he is just not as devastating at 135. Add to this that Lopez is a good boxer with exceptional power and speed...and will likely be competitive with top welters before long....

I guess Loma has heard whispers that Lopez struggles to make the weight as he was huge by comparison. He was blowing out of his arse by round 9 and I thought Loma might overwhelm him. But Lopez didn't have to work hard to win the first half of the fight. Just slammed shots into Loma's body and walked...

A rematch would be extremely interesting. As a young fighter Lopez would have much more confidence and belief. If Loma starts a few rounds earlier he may get sparked. Or he may have time to make his ascent to defeat a fading Lopez. Be interesting to know at what round the biting point is.

[Autobarn]

I felt Lopez sealed it for sure in the 12th. He had started very brightly but as can happen, he looked a little lost later on. Good late stand in the final round from him.

Regarding Lomachenko, he's not going to throw shots if he doesn't feel comfortable in there. We saw this for long stretches of his last fight, and we saw it for stretches during his first major fight, Salido. Also in which he brought it on strong late, but not quite enough.

Definitely some very exciting fights to be made around 140 if Lopez outgrows lightweight. Taylor, Ramirez, Mikey Garcia's still around and has ring smarts and wonderful punch repertoire, and now Lopez as a serious force.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Vasiliy Lomachenko Opens Up On Teofimo Lopez Loss: “It’s About Being Bribed, There Was Nothing About Honest Judging”

After having time to dissect his unanimous decision loss at the hands of Teofimo Lopez roughly two months ago, former three-division world titlist Vasiliy Lomachenko is screaming robbery.

“If we counted strictly by the book, the scorecards would be different,” said Lomachenko on his social media page.

Lomachenko, 32, walked into his undisputed lightweight contest against Lopez (16-0, 12 KOs) as a decided favorite. From the moment the bell rang, the 23-year-old Lopez came straight ahead. Lomachenko though, took more of a defensive stance during the opening frame. What was thought to be a feel out round for the Ukrainian, turned into a passive effort during the first half of their contest.

While Lomachenko (14-2, 10 KOs) remained patient early on, connecting on 25 of his 58 total punches, Lopez continued to bank rounds as he scored on 53 of his 239 first-half shots. Falling behind on the judge’s scorecards is something that Lomachenko agrees with but after watching the tape closely, he believes he did more than enough in the second half.

“I took one round for the first half of the fight and five rounds for the second one, namely rounds 7-11. We’ve got 6-6 which is a draw. If it’s a draw we use the unspoken rule of boxing, we look for rounds 10-12. I won two of them. It’s two to one.”

The numbers for Lomachenko did in fact spike up during the second half as he tagged Lopez with 116 shots while throwing 263. With that being said, the change in his aggression still fell short when compared to his younger opponent. Lopez eked by Lomachenko in terms of punches landed with 130 and he nearly doubled him up in the second half with 420 total punches thrown.

Lopez seemed to punctuate his performance in the final round as he landed 50 total shots on Lomachenko, a career-high for punches landed on the Ukrainian native.

Still, most pundits are in agreement that Lomachenko did in fact win the second half of their contest. However, the hole he dug during the first half proved to be too much as Lopez went on to become the youngest undisputed world champion in boxing history.

Bad judging is something that Lomachenko can reluctantly live with. Nevertheless, the former two time Olympic gold medalist doesn’t believe the judges accidentally handed in bad scorecards. In this case, Lomachenko assumes that there could have been money exchanged underneath the table.

“They knew that the possibility of a knockout from my side was around 20%. What does it say? It’s about being bribed. There was nothing about honest judging.”

[margaret thatcher]

[Boxerbeetle]

Bribery and corruption is definitely present in boxing, we see it in the U.K. all the time. But see it in the Loma-Lopez scores? Nah.

[Counter-puncher]

“I took one round for the first half of the fight and five rounds for the second one, namely rounds 7-11. We’ve got 6-6 which is a draw. If it’s a draw we use the unspoken rule of boxing, we look for rounds 10-12. I won two of them. It’s two to one.”

a very, very, very unspoken rule. A rule so unspoken, no fvcker ever said it.

[Boxerbeetle]

“I took one round for the first half of the fight and five rounds for the second one, namely rounds 7-11. We’ve got 6-6 which is a draw. If it’s a draw we use the unspoken rule of boxing, we look for rounds 10-12. I won two of them. It’s two to one.”

a very, very, very unspoken rule. A rule so unspoken, no fvcker ever said it.

It’s also a very weird statement, considering it comes directly after “If we counted strictly by the book” . So apparently going strictly by the book also encompasses unspoken rules

[Counter-puncher]

“I took one round for the first half of the fight and five rounds for the second one, namely rounds 7-11. We’ve got 6-6 which is a draw. If it’s a draw we use the unspoken rule of boxing, we look for rounds 10-12. I won two of them. It’s two to one.”

a very, very, very unspoken rule. A rule so unspoken, no fvcker ever said it.

It’s also a very weird statement, considering it comes directly after “If we counted strictly by the book” . So apparently going strictly by the book also encompasses unspoken rules

great boxer, Lomachenko, but I hear he failed his first year logic module

[Counter-puncher]

coming up with that unspoken rule kindof reminds me of someone on here. possibly Henry when he got caught in one of his little misconceptions and then doubled down by inventing some sh1t to try and extricate himself