ggg title defenses

margaret thatcher · Post by **margaret thatcher** » 20 Dec 2020, 17:37

hey ggg bois, i was reading his wiki on this site and noticed someone ('artur128') changed his title defenses from 20+ to 10 (should be 11 now)

you gonna go to war for him and change that back, or do you agree that defneses of his regular wba belt dont count

Jeff_lacy_ko · Post by **Jeff_lacy_ko** » 20 Dec 2020, 17:55

In your boxing world does the wba regular title count?

margaret thatcher · Post by **margaret thatcher** » 20 Dec 2020, 18:06

ppl need to be consistent. i can see them counting regular titles under the logic that a title is just a technicality/official status and that it's worth is something seperate, but if you bash ppl for only being regular champs but then puff up ggg's title defense tally with his regular defenses, nah man

it's interesting, cuz in a case like machado - tank you had a guy being stripped of his ''super' title for no reason and downgraded to regular without ever losing in the ring. in that case, does he stop being world champ.

tbh, i havent followed ggg's title situation too closely, was there always a super champ above him when he was regular champ and what were they up to. i seem to recall ndam or sturm having wba belts

Jeff_lacy_ko · Post by **Jeff_lacy_ko** » 20 Dec 2020, 18:32

Conventional wisdom is:
Sturm was elevated to super to avoid fighting GGG

Hbo and ring didnt count his defenses

Rafael and espn did

I thought it was nonsense. If someone ducks a fighter he becomes champ? So we should count title defenses for srr when he was the best at 147 but frozen out?

Enlightened-One · Post by **Enlightened-One** » 20 Dec 2020, 18:32

GGG’s victory over Szeremeta was only his TENTH successful title defence.

The IBO and WBA interim and regular titles aren’t legitimate championships, they’re only meaningless secondary trinkets.

At this point in time, GGG has captured the vacant IBF championship when he defeated Derevyanchenko and only successfully defended his titles once against ten foes (since the Canelo rematch was an unsuccessful title defence):

• Daniel Geale
• Rubio
• Murray
• Monroe Jr
• Lemieux
• Wade
• Jacobs
• Canelo
• Martirosyan
• Szeremeta

GGG’s title status was elevated twice by the WBA outside the ring (i.e. from interim to regular; and then from regular to super).

And then the WBC handed over their title to Golovkin (outside the ring, without needing to fight for the vacant strap) after they stripped it from Canelo (due to the Mexican engaged in a lawsuit against his former promoter).

The only belt GGG has ever held that he won by defeating the previous titleholder, was when he beat David Lemieux during his first IBF title reign.

Jeff_lacy_ko · Post by **Jeff_lacy_ko** » 20 Dec 2020, 18:32

I honestly dont know the particulars. I will defer to EO since he likes that sort of thing

Jeff_lacy_ko · Post by **Jeff_lacy_ko** » 20 Dec 2020, 18:39

https://www.ringtv.com/541732-gray-matt ... t-records/

Enlightened-One · Post by **Enlightened-One** » 20 Dec 2020, 19:18

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑20 Dec 2020, 18:39 https://www.ringtv.com/541732-gray-matt ... t-records/

The article is slightly incorrect, but clearly closer to reality than the media’s recent record breaking claims.

The interim and regular WBA straps aren’t genuine world titles.

So all you have to do is count the amount of times GGG successfully defended his WBC, IBF or WBA super titles... and you’ll almost certainly come to the conclusion that he’s only ever performed ten legitimate successful defences.

Anyone that has ten fingers should be able to look at his BoxRec resume and draw the same conclusion that no one can possibly refute.

Winning a world title isn’t the same as making defence. So we should ignore those from our tallies.

And losing his titles whilst attempting to defend them should be excluded from the same tally also.

If Anthony Joshua vacated his WBA super title tomorrow, then this wouldn’t make Mahmoud Charr a legitimate world champion, even if he would be considered the WBA’s most senior heavyweight title holder.

And do you want to know the reason why? It’s because the interim, regular and gold titles aren’t legitimate world championships.

They never will be. And people might try to make an exception for GGG by saying, but but but.... blah, blah, blah.

However, if we apply our standards consistently, then no one should ever consider the WBA’s interim or regular titles as genuine world championships.

The Gratest · Post by **The Gratest** » 20 Dec 2020, 19:45

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑20 Dec 2020, 18:39 https://www.ringtv.com/541732-gray-matt ... t-records/

So, including his defence against Szeremeta, that makes 16.
Nice one, thanks for clearing that up JLko

Jeff_lacy_ko · Post by **Jeff_lacy_ko** » 20 Dec 2020, 20:09

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑20 Dec 2020, 19:18
Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑20 Dec 2020, 18:39 https://www.ringtv.com/541732-gray-matt ... t-records/
The article is slightly incorrect, but clearly closer to reality than the media’s recent record breaking claims.

The interim and regular WBA straps aren’t genuine world titles.

So all you have to do is count the amount of times GGG successfully defended his WBC, IBF or WBA super titles... and you’ll almost certainly come to the conclusion that he’s only ever performed ten legitimate successful defences.

Anyone that has ten fingers should be able to look at his BoxRec resume and draw the same conclusion that no one can possibly refute.

Winning a world title isn’t the same as making defence. So we should ignore those from our tallies.

And losing his titles whilst attempting to defend them should be excluded from the same tally also.

If Anthony Joshua vacated his WBA super title tomorrow, then this wouldn’t make Mahmoud Charr a legitimate world champion, even if he would be considered the WBA’s most senior heavyweight title holder.

And do you want to know the reason why? It’s because the interim, regular and gold titles aren’t legitimate world championships.

They never will be. And people might try to make an exception for GGG by saying, but but but.... blah, blah, blah.

However, if we apply our standards consistently, then no one should ever consider the WBA’s interim or regular titles as genuine world championships.

They stripped geale after he beat sturm. There was no super champ for a couple years. So author is counting some of the regular defenses

margaret thatcher · Post by **margaret thatcher** » 20 Dec 2020, 20:40

if he was the top champ in the wba, with no one above him, i dont see a big deal with counting those as legit defences

Jeff_lacy_ko · Post by **Jeff_lacy_ko** » 20 Dec 2020, 20:46

It just goes to show how you could have 3 different defense numbers and not be wrong because of how ridiculous the wba is

Do you count NC as a defense? Most do

Enlightened-One · Post by **Enlightened-One** » 20 Dec 2020, 22:01

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑20 Dec 2020, 20:09
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑20 Dec 2020, 19:18
Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑20 Dec 2020, 18:39 https://www.ringtv.com/541732-gray-matt ... t-records/
The article is slightly incorrect, but clearly closer to reality than the media’s recent record breaking claims.

The interim and regular WBA straps aren’t genuine world titles.

So all you have to do is count the amount of times GGG successfully defended his WBC, IBF or WBA super titles... and you’ll almost certainly come to the conclusion that he’s only ever performed ten legitimate successful defences.

Anyone that has ten fingers should be able to look at his BoxRec resume and draw the same conclusion that no one can possibly refute.

Winning a world title isn’t the same as making defence. So we should ignore those from our tallies.

And losing his titles whilst attempting to defend them should be excluded from the same tally also.

If Anthony Joshua vacated his WBA super title tomorrow, then this wouldn’t make Mahmoud Charr a legitimate world champion, even if he would be considered the WBA’s most senior heavyweight title holder.

And do you want to know the reason why? It’s because the interim, regular and gold titles aren’t legitimate world championships.

They never will be. And people might try to make an exception for GGG by saying, but but but.... blah, blah, blah.

However, if we apply our standards consistently, then no one should ever consider the WBA’s interim or regular titles as genuine world championships.
They stripped geale after he beat sturm. There was no super champ for a couple years. So author is counting some of the regular defenses

Hence the reason for my Anthony Joshua Mahmoud Charr analogy.

The author of the article concedes that Geale shouldn’t have been stripped of his super title and that it was only his own opinion about the actual commencement of GGG’s world championship reign.

In my mind, the WBA’s regular title is only a trinket. And if the more prestigious super championship is vacant, then there simply isn’t a legitimate champion.

If AJ and Charr vacates their belts tomorrow, do we just keep going down the pecking order to determine the next “legitimate” champion? In this scenario it would probably be Trevor Bryan.

The answer for me at least, is obviously no, but regardless as to whether you disagree or not, surely you don’t sincerely believe that GGG’s victory over Szeremeta actually broke any record?

We’re splitting hairs here, because I don’t believe that anyone knowledgeable about the sport of boxing believes that GGG has legitimately performed 21 successful title defences.

The Gratest · Post by **The Gratest** » 21 Dec 2020, 00:19

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑20 Dec 2020, 20:46 It just goes to show how you could have 3 different defense numbers and not be wrong because of how ridiculous the wba is

Do you count NC as a defense? Most do

Just having a look around at GGG articles, this one by The Ring Editor, Doug Fischer, has GGG's title defense against Adama Osumanu as his 10th one. So adding the rest of the defences from that fight on, it comes to 21.
For sure it's a confusing subject with different answers, especially when the editor at The Ring is throwing out numbers that seem to match up with a lot of the recent boxing media reports. It is what it is, no big deal.

https://www.ringtv.com/317463-ring-rati ... t-ranking/

Enlightened-One · Post by **Enlightened-One** » 21 Dec 2020, 01:13

The Gratest wrote: ↑21 Dec 2020, 00:19
Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑20 Dec 2020, 20:46 It just goes to show how you could have 3 different defense numbers and not be wrong because of how ridiculous the wba is

Do you count NC as a defense? Most do
Just having a look around at GGG articles, this one by The Ring Editor, Doug Fischer, has GGG's title defense against Adama Osumanu as his 10th one. So adding the rest of the defences from that fight on, it comes to 21.
For sure it's a confusing subject with different answers, especially when the editor at The Ring is throwing out numbers that seem to match up with a lot of the recent boxing media reports. It is what it is, no big deal.

https://www.ringtv.com/317463-ring-rati ... t-ranking/

What’s so confusing?

Are the interim or regular versions of the WBA belts legitimate world titles?

And if not, that how many times, as the champion, has GGG successfully performed title defences of the IBF, the WBA super or the WBC titles?

If you possess ten fingers, then the answer to the second question is easy to deduce by reviewing GGG’s resume?

It’s basic maths that any five year old child could answer.

margaret thatcher · Post by **margaret thatcher** » 21 Dec 2020, 01:32

however many title defenses he has, big credit for him at 38 beating up the ring magazine #6

Enlightened-One · Post by **Enlightened-One** » 21 Dec 2020, 02:38

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑21 Dec 2020, 01:32 however many title defenses he has, big credit for him at 38 beating up the ring magazine #6

OK, so let’s pretend that The RING isn’t owned by one of DAZN’s primary boxing content providers, which means they could be duty-bound to market the fighters they’re indirectly associated with...

Then why on earth would they consider rating a fighter, Kamil Szeremeta, facing one of DAZN’s biggest stars, as the sixth-best middleweight on the planet, considerably higher than a member of the PBC, such as the 10th placed Chris Eubank Jr?

Kamil’s career highlights:

• Szeremata has never beaten a top-12 IBF-rated middleweight and nor has he defeated a top-ten RING-rated 160lb-er either. GGG Promotions lobbied the IBF to instate their 3rd rated 160lb-er as Golovkin's mandatory challenger.

• Szeremeta's last two victories came against opponents that had failed to emerge victorious in a combined total of 21 bouts, with Cortes losing 4 out of his last 5 contests and Palacios winning 2 of his previous 15 fights (without scoring a single victory in the last five years).

• Kamil Szeremata only KO’d two of his first sixteen bouts.

• According to BoxRec’s ratings, Kamil Szeremeta’s best victory came against Patrick Mendy, a man that’s only won 18 of his 38 bouts.

• And whilst Szeremeta does hold a victory over a previously unbeaten opponent that had won ten bouts or more, who goes by the name of Artem Karpets, this was only the start of a fifteen-fight losing streak that spanned four consecutive years. And Karpets has never won a single fight since the Szeremeta defeat.

And let’s compare the above feats to Chris Eubank Jr.

• The Brit has faced four legitimate former/current world champions. Beating two of them and suffering very closely fought losses to the others.

• He’s a two-time interim WBA titleholder, which obviously isn’t a legitimate world championship, but it’s more prestigious than the European title.

• And Eubank Jr. has faced the likes of: Billy Joe Saunders, George Groves, Arthur Abraham, James DeGale, Avni Yildirim, Gary O'Sullivan and Dmitrii Chudinov.

• Chris has also defeated three previously unbeaten opponents possessing ten victories or more (Yildrim, Chudinov & Doran).

margaret thatcher · Post by **margaret thatcher** » 21 Dec 2020, 02:39

#6 bruh, with the publication you repeatedly used before to rank dudes credibility

# 7 at transnational rankings too

man, even at 38 ggg is out there beating up factually top 10 fighters in world title defenses

Enlightened-One · Post by **Enlightened-One** » 21 Dec 2020, 02:48

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑21 Dec 2020, 02:39 #6 bruh, with the publication you repeatedly used before to rank dudes credibility

# 7 at transnational rankings too

man, even at 38 ggg is out there beating up factually top 10 fighters in world title defenses

On this occasion, it's clear that I know far more about boxing than the men affiliated with The RING and TBRB who rated Szeremeta so highly.

And I have a sneaking suspicion that you never rated Szeremeta highly either, due to the sarcastic tone of your replies, which means there's every chance that most of the BoxRec forum community also know far more about boxing than the guys at The RING and TBRB that wrongly considered Kamil as the sixth-best middleweight on the planet.

Perhaps we should establish our own ratings?

On a side note, if Szeremeta and Eubank Jr. fought each other, who would you expect to win that fight?

The Gratest · Post by **The Gratest** » 21 Dec 2020, 05:11

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑21 Dec 2020, 01:13
The Gratest wrote: ↑21 Dec 2020, 00:19
Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑20 Dec 2020, 20:46 It just goes to show how you could have 3 different defense numbers and not be wrong because of how ridiculous the wba is

Do you count NC as a defense? Most do
Just having a look around at GGG articles, this one by The Ring Editor, Doug Fischer, has GGG's title defense against Adama Osumanu as his 10th one. So adding the rest of the defences from that fight on, it comes to 21.
For sure it's a confusing subject with different answers, especially when the editor at The Ring is throwing out numbers that seem to match up with a lot of the recent boxing media reports. It is what it is, no big deal.

https://www.ringtv.com/317463-ring-rati ... t-ranking/
What’s so confusing?

Are the interim or regular versions of the WBA belts legitimate world titles?

And if not, that how many times, as the champion, has GGG successfully performed title defences of the IBF, the WBA super or the WBC titles?

If you possess ten fingers, then the answer to the second question is easy to deduce by reviewing GGG’s resume?

It’s basic maths that any five year old child could answer.

What's so confusing? Is it not obvious? Are you a five your old child? With all due respect, just giving you the straight up truth, you do act like a petulant child a lot of the time, Friday night being a prime example.

2 different articles produced by the bible of boxing, The Ring, on the same subject. 2 different answers to the number of defences. There appears to be no exact correct answer, it just depends on the person themselves and, given your obvious huge bias against GGG, your answer would be the most obvious incorrect one.

Just because neither of the answers fit in with what you believe to be correct doesn't mean that neither of them can be correct. Who are you again? Are you the bible of boxing? Why should we all listen to you?

Are you feeling OK? You previously mentioned that your lifestyle does not allow you to stay up late, yet that's 3 nights in a row where you have done so. This could easily be contributing to your feelings of confusion. Go and have a lie-down, get some well needed rest, clear your mind of all bias, and then revisit this at a later date, possibly in a week or 2. Also try to learn some humility while you are at it. You might find people will respect you more rather than continually mock you in doing so.

Ruthless-RKO · Post by **Ruthless-RKO** » 21 Dec 2020, 05:44

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑21 Dec 2020, 02:38
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑21 Dec 2020, 01:32 however many title defenses he has, big credit for him at 38 beating up the ring magazine #6
OK, so let’s pretend that The RING isn’t owned by one of DAZN’s primary boxing content providers, which means they could be duty-bound to market the fighters they’re indirectly associated with...

Then why on earth would they consider rating a fighter, Kamil Szeremeta, facing one of DAZN’s biggest stars, as the sixth-best middleweight on the planet, considerably higher than a member of the PBC, such as the 10th placed Chris Eubank Jr?

Forget Ring Mag then..

TBRB had Kamil ranked at #7..

What's their excuse? They are independant..

Ruthless-RKO · Post by **Ruthless-RKO** » 21 Dec 2020, 05:47

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑20 Dec 2020, 18:32 The only belt GGG has ever held that he won by defeating the previous titleholder, was when he beat David Lemieux during his first IBF title reign.

Lemieux was the only belt-holder willing to defend against GGG. Others were either stripped, vacated or given 'Super' status..

DrDuke · Post by **DrDuke** » 21 Dec 2020, 06:51

Regular belt is sh!t.

Ideally, there can be only one champion.

But there should at least be a one version of a title FFS.

When there're several "big belt" champions, at least each of them has some claim for being the man. But when there's a champion and some other, a "regular" one appears, it's just not possible to take such sh!t seriously. Straps suck! Idiotic "regular", "inter-continental", "silver", "gold", "brown" straps suck hunred times more!

apollo creed · Post by **apollo creed** » 21 Dec 2020, 08:52

Bottom line is 38 y/o Golovkin beat Kamil Szeremeta-rated as No. 6 by Ring Magazine. Golovkin fought against top 10 Ring Magazine world rated MW's like :

Grzegorz Proksa - 2012 No. 10 by Ring Magazine
Curtis Stevens - 2013 No. 10 by Ring Magazine
Matthew Macklin - 2013 No. 6 by Ring Magazine
Daniel Geale - 2014 No. 4 by Ring Magazine
David Lemieux - 2015 No. 4 by Ring Magazine
Daniel Jacobs - 2017 No. 2 by Ring Magazine
Saul Alvarez - 2017 Champion by Ring Magazine
Saul Alvarez - 2018 Champion by Ring Magazine
Sergiy Derevyanchenko - 2019 No. 4 by Ring Magazine
Kamil Szeremeta - 2020 No. 6 by Ring Magazine

Golovkin's resume is pretty damn solid. It's crazy that still exists morons on this forum that doesn't give Golovkin his props for fighting top 10 world class opponents.

apollo creed · Post by **apollo creed** » 21 Dec 2020, 09:04

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑20 Dec 2020, 17:37 hey ggg bois, i was reading his wiki on this site and noticed someone ('artur128') changed his title defenses from 20+ to 10 (should be 11 now)

you gonna go to war for him and change that back, or do you agree that defneses of his regular wba belt dont count

It's a Bird...It's a Plane...It's EO

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