Sugar Ray Leonard versus James Toney

[elmersalsa]

Other people are picking Leonard too. Quote one of those guys, and quit bothering me. Start a thread about all time greatest Middleweights or something.

Toney may well come in at the tail end around 19 or 20, but he's not one of the very best.

Hagler on the other hand is Top 5, and Leonard beat him...officially anyway.

They got Leonard on a pedestal. Just like you. Thanks

[gilgamesh]

Other people are picking Leonard too. Quote one of those guys, and quit bothering me. Start a thread about all time greatest Middleweights or something.

Toney may well come in at the tail end around 19 or 20, but he's not one of the very best.

Hagler on the other hand is Top 5, and Leonard beat him...officially anyway.

They got Leonard on a pedestal. Just like you. Thanks

I don't got him on a goddamn Pedestal. He's not one of my favorite fighters while James Toney is. I'm able to separate these things in my mind, and simply assess the bout as a stylistic matchup.

Try it sometime.

Ignore the fact that you hate Leonard, and simply look at what he was capable of.

[goose 5]

So, it's simply a matter of styles and Toney being weight drained at 160 isn't a factor ?

[Onetimeonly]

So, it's simply a matter of styles and Toney being weight drained at 160 isn't a factor ?

Not to mention stylistically James was more comfortable countering as opposed to chasing.

[elmersalsa]

Other people are picking Leonard too. Quote one of those guys, and quit bothering me. Start a thread about all time greatest Middleweights or something.

Toney may well come in at the tail end around 19 or 20, but he's not one of the very best.

Hagler on the other hand is Top 5, and Leonard beat him...officially anyway.

They got Leonard on a pedestal. Just like you. Thanks

I don't got him on a goddamn Pedestal. He's not one of my favorite fighters while James Toney is. I'm able to separate these things in my mind, and simply assess the bout as a stylistic matchup.

Try it sometime.

Ignore the fact that you hate Leonard, and simply look at what he was capable of.

I know what was Sugar Ray was capable of....at 147lbs.

Beyond that, only 7 fights in the last 15 years. To believe that he beats a guy like James Toney is totally biased and unrealistic. Sugar Ray did not shine above 147lbs. Thank you. Can you accept that?

[Onetimeonly]

[gilgamesh]

They got Leonard on a pedestal. Just like you. Thanks

I don't got him on a goddamn Pedestal. He's not one of my favorite fighters while James Toney is. I'm able to separate these things in my mind, and simply assess the bout as a stylistic matchup.

Try it sometime.

Ignore the fact that you hate Leonard, and simply look at what he was capable of.

I know what was Sugar Ray was capable of....at 147lbs.

Beyond that, only 7 fights in the last 15 years. To believe that he beats a guy like James Toney is totally biased and unrealistic. Sugar Ray did not shine above 147lbs. Thank you. Can you accept that?

I disagree.

Can you accept that?

[elmersalsa]

I don't got him on a goddamn Pedestal. He's not one of my favorite fighters while James Toney is. I'm able to separate these things in my mind, and simply assess the bout as a stylistic matchup.

Try it sometime.

Ignore the fact that you hate Leonard, and simply look at what he was capable of.

I know what was Sugar Ray was capable of....at 147lbs.

Beyond that, only 7 fights in the last 15 years. To believe that he beats a guy like James Toney is totally biased and unrealistic. Sugar Ray did not shine above 147lbs. Thank you. Can you accept that?

I disagree.

Can you accept that?

There is the bias. 7 fights in 15 years above welterweight and he beats James Toney. Only one of the 7 fights he looks good against an aging and fading Marvelous. That's incredible. Next thing we know, he also beats King Kong, Superman and Mike Tyson. Yeah, Sugar Ray can do it.

[gilgamesh]

I know what was Sugar Ray was capable of....at 147lbs.

Beyond that, only 7 fights in the last 15 years. To believe that he beats a guy like James Toney is totally biased and unrealistic. Sugar Ray did not shine above 147lbs. Thank you. Can you accept that?

I disagree.

Can you accept that?

There is the bias. 7 fights in 15 years above welterweight and he beats James Toney. Only one of the 7 fights he looks good against an aging and fading Marvelous. That's incredible. Next thing we know, he also beats King Kong, Superman and Mike Tyson. Yeah, Sugar Ray can do it.

The bias is coming from you guy.

[elmersalsa]

I disagree.

Can you accept that?

There is the bias. 7 fights in 15 years above welterweight and he beats James Toney. Only one of the 7 fights he looks good against an aging and fading Marvelous. That's incredible. Next thing we know, he also beats King Kong, Superman and Mike Tyson. Yeah, Sugar Ray can do it.

The bias is coming from you guy.

No way. I got a realistic view. You got a biased view. That's the difference.

[gilgamesh]

There is the bias. 7 fights in 15 years above welterweight and he beats James Toney. Only one of the 7 fights he looks good against an aging and fading Marvelous. That's incredible. Next thing we know, he also beats King Kong, Superman and Mike Tyson. Yeah, Sugar Ray can do it.

The bias is coming from you guy.

No way. I got a realistic view. You got a biased view. That's the difference.

Why would I be biased against one of my favorite fighters in favor of a guy I'm not a fan of? What f*cking planet does that make sense on?

[elmersalsa]

The bias is coming from you guy.

No way. I got a realistic view. You got a biased view. That's the difference.

Why would I be biased against one of my favorite fighters in favor of a guy I'm not a fan of? What f*cking planet does that make sense on?

Don't downplay the facts.

Explain to me how can a guy that only fought 7 times in 15 years would beat a guy like James Toney?

Someone who was bigger, stronger and in his weight class. Better inside fighter overall and better chin.

[gilgamesh]

No way. I got a realistic view. You got a biased view. That's the difference.

Why would I be biased against one of my favorite fighters in favor of a guy I'm not a fan of? What f*cking planet does that make sense on?

Don't downplay the facts.

Explain to me how can a guy that only fought 7 times in 15 years would beat a guy like James Toney?

Someone who was bigger, stronger and in his weight class. Better inside fighter overall and better chin.

Explain to me why you can't accept that I disagree?

Did Leonard f*ck your Mother? Your Wife?

What the f*ck is your problem?

Move the f*ck on and leave me alone, or pester someone else who picked Leonard. Goddamn dude.

[Onetimeonly]

Why would I be biased against one of my favorite fighters in favor of a guy I'm not a fan of? What f*cking planet does that make sense on?

Don't downplay the facts.

Explain to me how can a guy that only fought 7 times in 15 years would beat a guy like James Toney?

Someone who was bigger, stronger and in his weight class. Better inside fighter overall and better chin.

Explain to me why you can't accept that I disagree?

Did Leonard f*ck your Mother? Your Wife?

What the f*ck is your problem?

Move the f*ck on and leave me alone, or pester someone else who picked Leonard. Goddamn dude.

Leonard is his second favorite fighter! We all know Elmer is a jack ass but this stretching the 15 years is beyond retarded, even for him. Only 1 of them matters here, when he beat arguably the greatest middleweight, and consensus best fighter in the world. I can't think of a more overrated middleweight than toney. Great win over Nunn from well behind, debatable wins over Sosa & Johnson with a straight robbery over tiberi.

Elmo is painful, he knows the sport but his bias is otherworldly.

[elmersalsa]

Why would I be biased against one of my favorite fighters in favor of a guy I'm not a fan of? What f*cking planet does that make sense on?

Don't downplay the facts.

Explain to me how can a guy that only fought 7 times in 15 years would beat a guy like James Toney?

Someone who was bigger, stronger and in his weight class. Better inside fighter overall and better chin.

Explain to me why you can't accept that I disagree?

Did Leonard f*ck your Mother? Your Wife?

What the f*ck is your problem?

Move the f*ck on and leave me alone, or pester someone else who picked Leonard. Goddamn dude.

No, he did not fuuck my mother. Nor my wife. I don't got a problem with Sugar Ray.

I guess Sugar Ray fuucked you? In the ass? Or do you suck his dick? Motherfucker!

[elmersalsa]

Don't downplay the facts.

Explain to me how can a guy that only fought 7 times in 15 years would beat a guy like James Toney?

Someone who was bigger, stronger and in his weight class. Better inside fighter overall and better chin.

Explain to me why you can't accept that I disagree?

Did Leonard f*ck your Mother? Your Wife?

What the f*ck is your problem?

Move the f*ck on and leave me alone, or pester someone else who picked Leonard. Goddamn dude.

Leonard is his second favorite fighter! We all know Elmer is a jack ass but this stretching the 15 years is beyond retarded, even for him. Only 1 of them matters here, when he beat arguably the greatest middleweight, and consensus best fighter in the world. I can't think of a more overrated middleweight than toney. Great win over Nunn from well behind, debatable wins over Sosa & Johnson with a straight robbery over tiberi.

Elmo is painful, he knows the sport but his bias is otherworldly.

He beat the greatest middleweight, my ass. Marvelous was almost shot when he entered that ring. Any decent good middleweight would have beaten him with that performance.

Yeah, the great Roberto Duran told Sugar Ray, you can beat him. What Ray did? He came back in '84. What happened? Got embarrassed by Kevin Howard. He said that he didn't had it anymore.

Next? Marvelous pass through another war with your boy Thomas Hearns and John Mugabi. After the Mugabi fight, THEN, THEN he challenged Marvelous.

If we are gonna be hypocrites that that was the same Marvelous of say 1982 or '83 compared to that acting job in '87 then we got a problem of blinding our eyes or something.

James Toney in that fight would have beaten them so bad, twice on Sunday. Toney was a helluva fighter. Overrated? You are kidding yourself, Mark. You are kidding yourself.

[Onetimeonly]

Explain to me why you can't accept that I disagree?

Did Leonard f*ck your Mother? Your Wife?

What the f*ck is your problem?

Move the f*ck on and leave me alone, or pester someone else who picked Leonard. Goddamn dude.

Leonard is his second favorite fighter! We all know Elmer is a jack ass but this stretching the 15 years is beyond retarded, even for him. Only 1 of them matters here, when he beat arguably the greatest middleweight, and consensus best fighter in the world. I can't think of a more overrated middleweight than toney. Great win over Nunn from well behind, debatable wins over Sosa & Johnson with a straight robbery over tiberi.

Elmo is painful, he knows the sport but his bias is otherworldly.

He beat the greatest middleweight, my ass. Marvelous was almost shot when he entered that ring. Any decent good middleweight would have beaten him with that performance.

Yeah, the great Roberto Duran told Sugar Ray, you can beat him. What Ray did? He came back in '84. What happened? Got embarrassed by Kevin Howard. He said that he didn't had it anymore.

Next? Marvelous pass through another war with your boy Thomas Hearns and John Mugabi. After the Mugabi fight, THEN, THEN he challenged Marvelous.

If we are gonna be hypocrites that that was the same Marvelous of say 1982 or '83 compared to that acting job in '87 then we got a problem of blinding our eyes or something.

James Toney in that fight would have beaten them so bad, twice on Sunday. Toney was a helluva fighter. Overrated? You are kidding yourself, Mark. You are kidding yourself.

[gilgamesh]

Don't downplay the facts.

Explain to me how can a guy that only fought 7 times in 15 years would beat a guy like James Toney?

Someone who was bigger, stronger and in his weight class. Better inside fighter overall and better chin.

Explain to me why you can't accept that I disagree?

Did Leonard f*ck your Mother? Your Wife?

What the f*ck is your problem?

Move the f*ck on and leave me alone, or pester someone else who picked Leonard. Goddamn dude.

No, he did not fuuck my mother. Nor my wife. I don't got a problem with Sugar Ray.

I guess Sugar Ray fuucked you? In the ass? Or do you suck his dick? Motherfucker!

I'm not the guy who can't get over somebody disagreeing with me.

Ask me who wins the battle of the Sugar Ray's. I'd favor Robinson.

Ask me who wins Leonard vs Harry Greb. I'd favor Greb.

Ask me who wins Leonard vs Carlos Monzon. I'd favor Monzon.

I even think Tommy Hearns would've beaten him if they'd fought an immediate rematch back in the early 80's. I certainly don't find him unbeatable.

[elmersalsa]

Explain to me why you can't accept that I disagree?

Did Leonard f*ck your Mother? Your Wife?

What the f*ck is your problem?

Move the f*ck on and leave me alone, or pester someone else who picked Leonard. Goddamn dude.

No, he did not fuuck my mother. Nor my wife. I don't got a problem with Sugar Ray.

I guess Sugar Ray fuucked you? In the ass? Or do you suck his dick? Motherfucker!

I'm not the guy who can't get over somebody disagreeing with me.

Ask me who wins the battle of the Sugar Ray's. I'd favor Robinson.

Ask me who wins Leonard vs Harry Greb. I'd favor Greb.

Ask me who wins Leonard vs Carlos Monzon. I'd favor Monzon.

I even think Tommy Hearns would've beaten him if they'd fought an immediate rematch back in the early 80's. I certainly don't find him unbeatable.

Well, don't get personal, then! Just answer the question.

[gilgamesh]

I already answered the question. Leonard beats Toney at Middleweight. Any other question you've asked. I don't got time for.

[Onetimeonly]

I already answered the question. Leonard beats Toney at Middleweight. Any other question you've asked. I don't got time for.

He asked you out on a date.

[gilgamesh]

I already answered the question. Leonard beats Toney at Middleweight. Any other question you've asked. I don't got time for.

He asked you out on a date.

I'd have to tell him no