Changed Opinion

[Finkel]

Yeah I would have to.

Heck a hard fought competitive loss to Joshua would have at least been something to compare against.

The thing is, both Wilder fights, Ortiz outboxed Wilder. Wilder is not a technical boxer, but you can see Ortiz is a good technical boxer. But when you’re fighting Wilder, he’s just waiting for that one punch to land and it’s night night.

Well that's the crux of the problem.
That and age.

The first fight was very controversial, but ignoring the ring doctors involvement, Ortiz just didn't have the legs to finish Wilder off. And exhausted himself trying to do so.

If we are to give Wilder credit for his performance in the second, we can say that perhaps Wilder's team realized from the first fight Ortiz (now another year older) wouldn't be able to make it down the home stretch, so just planned to let the danger of the earlier rounds pass. But does that sound like an elite level opponent?

We can say for sure that Wilder has fought an elite guy in Fury (even if he was not 100%). And let's be fair the difference was apparent to most, and the resulting draw extremely controversial.

So for me it goes back to if/when he beats Fury he will get all the credit in the world. Alternatively give Whyte his long overdue title shot and prove himself to be a true champion.

[Paci]

So he beats Ortiz twice and still no cred?

I suspect I might get a fair bit of push back on this, but:

It really depends on how highly you rate beating an Ortiz in the twilight years of a career in which he has achieved and proved nothing of note.

Granted he is a cultured Cuban heavyweight and seen a tricky southpaw counter punch, BUT

1. Not many people really believe Ortiz's official age. So lets be generous and say He was close to 40 when he fought Wilder.

2. Ortiz's best win was against Bryant Jennings (who was coming off his first loss) back in 2015.
BTW Bryant Jennings has never actually beaten anyone inside the top 20. He is almost the perfect top 20 gate keeper. So off that back of that you could probably put Ortiz somewhere in the top 15.
Actually Ortiz's best win was probably against Christian Hammer last year, and he didn't look so hot in that fight.

So you can make an argument Ortiz is around the standard of Chisora, but Ortiz has never proven himself to be elite level, and he certainly isn't going to be reaching his peak at close to 40.

In summary Ortiz really needs/needed to fight one of his peers in the top 10. If he beats/had beaten one of them, then yeah, credit to Wilder.

Indeed. Can't argue with you on Ortiz' age or resumé. Still skilled guy eitherway in my eyes with a short amount of time left in the game.

[Nile4000]

Thought Deontay Wilder was unbeatable. That changed real quick.

[margaret thatcher]

conor benn looked like crap but now i think he'll win a world title

[Ruthless-RKO]

Dillian Whyte. I wouldn’t say I thought he was trash although I didn’t think he was very good. I’ve been surprised by how well he has performed lately. I’d put him at 5 in the world.

Still top 5?

[margaret thatcher]

Thought Deontay Wilder was unbeatable. That changed real quick.

conversly, the way he was handled coming up, with totally ridiculous can crushing for years and having known to been dropped hard multiple times, i thought for sure he was gonna be a glass chin fraud falling hard on those matchstick legs, but he turned out to be pretty tough and successful

[Enlightened-One]

Thoughts on any current fighter who you thought was utter trash but come around to admit that he's good fighter.

I previously considered Joe Joyce as the modern-day equivalent of "Michael Grant", an extreme hype job that stylistically fights as though he's a slow-motion Rock' Em Sock' Em Robot. A bit like the 1970's version of George Foreman, but minus the talent, minus the power, minus the jab and also much slower.

This might have been based on witnessing a few of his early performances, such as the Lenroy Thomas bout, when he forgot to use the jab, his footwork was dire (walking in straight lines) and he was also throwing wide clumsy hooks, with many missing the mark. He lacked finesse and only seemed to be winning bouts due to his superior size and athleticism.

I can't really recall what precisely changed my mind, but as far back as April 2019, I'd grown to appreciate his talents to the point that I was supremely confident about him comfortably beating Daniel Dubois (despite the betting odds, the media and the majority of this forum disagreeing with me).

For some reason, he's a profoundly unimpressive fighter to watch, but it's just that his awkward clumsy unorthodox style is somehow incredibly effective.

He's so tough and has such a great engine, that he just seems to wear down his opponents with his relentless pressure and high work-rate, despite not being particularly heavy-handed.

So, Joe Joyce is the one fighter that I previously believed was complete garbage, but I was wrong about him.

Now I think he deserves to be considered a top-ten heavyweight. And I feel he'd even be highly competitive against, and perhaps capable of beating, the likes of Alexander Povetkin, Oscar Rivas, Michael Hunter, Kubrat Pulev and Luis Ortiz.

[Nile4000]

Thought Deontay Wilder was unbeatable. That changed real quick.

conversly, the way he was handled coming up, with totally ridiculous can crushing for years and having known to been dropped hard multiple times, i thought for sure he was gonna be a glass chin fraud falling hard on those matchstick legs, but he turned out to be pretty tough and successful

When you mentioned that, I thought "that's a very good point". Be interesting to see how he comes back.

[lazboy]

Dillian Whyte. I wouldn’t say I thought he was trash although I didn’t think he was very good. I’ve been surprised by how well he has performed lately. I’d put him at 5 in the world.

Still top 5?

Yes I still do. Povetkin landed an amazing punch. Before he landed that punch he was hurt by almost everything significant Whyte threw (in my opinion). And it was a reserved Whyte.

I don’t feel the KO will affect Whyte moving forward. I think he has one of those personalities. Although this is just a guess, how could I fking know haha. Just seems like it.

I favour him in the rematch and still think he’s still a formidable foe for those in the top 10.

[candyslim]

conor benn looked like crap but now i think he'll win a world title

Yeah Conor was going to be my pick too. Not sure about winning a world title but sure has made me re-evaluate his potential.

Lawrence Okolie is also looking likely to prove me wrong about him.

[brilo33]

Lawrence Okolie has changed me . i always saw him as a great shape sixe he is called he looks a boxer, but in his early fights he looked awkward a bit of a spolier , but seeing him letting his hands go and moving well offensively looks a dangerous fighter

[sykessta]

Thoughts on any current fighter who you thought was utter trash but come around to admit that he's good fighter.

I'll start and say Tevin Farmer thought he wasn't worth mentioning to fight some of the bigger names at 130 but he skill and durability is much better than I thought even though his resume is still kinda trash but is quality fighter.

Nahh farmer I'm pretty sure had no amateur experience so his record is actually pretty impressive considering. But yes like another poster mentioned fury.

[Counter-puncher]

Thought Deontay Wilder was unbeatable. That changed real quick.

conversly, the way he was handled coming up, with totally ridiculous can crushing for years and having known to been dropped hard multiple times, i thought for sure he was gonna be a glass chin fraud falling hard on those matchstick legs, but he turned out to be pretty tough and successful