Heavyweights: Evander Holyfield vs. Muhammad Ali

[Ambling Alp II]

Holyfield is not going to beat a prime Ali. Ali was simply too good. Holyfield couldn't knock him out or win a decision.
One thing that would help Holyfield was his versatility. when the other opponent is better than you, it's best not to be one-dimensional. Holyfield could box and could slug it out. He could try to vary things. With is speed and accuracy, he probably would get to Ali more than just about anyone else. but not enough.
The problem would be defense. He would basically be target practice for a prime Ali. Ali would be tagging him over and over. Holyfield might go 12, but he probably wouldn't last 15.

[gilgamesh]

Holyfield is not going to beat a prime Ali. Ali was simply too good. Holyfield couldn't knock him out or win a decision.
One thing that would help Holyfield was his versatility. when the other opponent is better than you, it's best not to be one-dimensional. Holyfield could box and could slug it out. He could try to vary things. With is speed and accuracy, he probably would get to Ali more than just about anyone else. but not enough.
The problem would be defense. He would basically be target practice for a prime Ali. Ali would be tagging him over and over. Holyfield might go 12, but he probably wouldn't last 15.

"He would probably get to Ali more than anyone else, but not enough."

If he got to him more than anyone else how would it not be enough? Ali is not undefeated.

I can't really see a KO either way for either guy even in multiple fights

[Ambling Alp II]

This is supposed to be when they were in their primes. Ali never lost in his prime. Holyfield would get to Ali than just about anyone would would when Ali was in his prime. When Ali was in his prime he was extremely hard to hit. Not saying that Holyfield would get to him a lot; but more than others.
However, Ali had phenomenal hand speed and was a very accurate puncher. Ali would hit Holyfield a lot more than vice versa. Don't see any way that Holyfield could actually win.
I guess if the fight was just for 12 rounds, Holyfield would probably go the distance more often than not.

[DrDuke]

This is supposed to be when they were in their primes. Ali never lost in his prime. Holyfield would get to Ali than just about anyone would would when Ali was in his prime. When Ali was in his prime he was extremely hard to hit. Not saying that Holyfield would get to him a lot; but more than others.
However, Ali had phenomenal hand speed and was a very accurate puncher. Ali would hit Holyfield a lot more than vice versa. Don't see any way that Holyfield could actually win.
I guess if the fight was just for 12 rounds, Holyfield would probably go the distance more often than not.

Ali lost to Frazier in prime, but he got tagged for quite an amount of times ever earlier. Even if not to count the Bonavena fight, because it's possible to see this fight as an excuse of getting rid of rust, anyway he had big troubles against Jones with Cooper and was visibly shaken by the likes of Chuvalo, Mildenberger and Williams. Holyfield was way better than all mentioned boxers and comparable with Frazier, while clearly better than him in some aspects.

[Ambling Alp II]

He was not in his prime when he fought Frazier; silly to suggest that he was.
He had not reached his prime yet, when he fought Jones, but still looked very good and won what was deservedly the Fight of the Year. He got knocked down by Cooper, (in a fight that he was dominating) but was up right away and stopped him in the next round.
He was not visibly shaken by Chuvalo, Mildenberger, and Williams. That simply did not happen.

[DrDuke]

He was not in his prime when he fought Frazier; silly to suggest that he was.
He had not reached his prime yet, when he fought Jones, but still looked very good and won what was deservedly the Fight of the Year. He got knocked down by Cooper, (in a fight that he was dominating) but was up right away and stopped him in the next round.
He was not visibly shaken by Chuvalo, Mildenberger, and Williams. That simply did not happen.

He wasn't in prime against Frazier majorly for his retarded fanboys, who saw only his highlights, thus they weren't able to see, how he had gone life-and-death against Jones and had been visibly shaken by the likes of Chuvalo, Mildenberger and Williams.

[Ambling Alp II]

"retarded fanboys"? wow. once again you are showing what a wonderful person you are. (btw, even the term retarded went out decades ago.)

you droool over your favoirtes but when someone else like someone you don't, they are a fan boy. wow.
Ali went about 43 months without a fight. He had been back only five months when he fought Frazioer. You don't just pick up where you left off being out that amount of time. This is true with boxing and just about any sport.
Just watch the Frazier fight itself. He obviously was not as fast as he had been previously. That is obvious right away. His reflexes were not as good. His stamina wasn't as good; you can see him tired and have to pace himslef beofre the fight ws half over.
Obviously he still had something left and it still took a great fighter to beat him. However, it is crystal clear he was noit at his best.

Doug Jones? It was a good scrap. But it wasn't like he was about to be knocked out or something. This was only his 18th pro fight and he had been a pro for less than three years during the time of this fight. He was still improving with each fight.
If it was someone that you like you would be heaping praise on them for winning the Fight of the Year at such an early age. Instead you act like you have found the smoking gun.

You are living in an alternative universe if you think he was hurt against Chuvalo, Mildenberger, and Williams. Total nonsense. I (and many others of course) have seen all of these fights in their entirety. (As well as all of his title shots and just about all fights before he won the title)He was never hurt. He dominated these fights; lost maybe 6 rounds total at most in these title defenses combined.

People can watch these fights on youtube or elsewhere. It clear to see you are talking nonsense. One thing to disagree with someone about who was the best or whatever. But to start making stuff up and to needlessly insult someone is pathetic.

[DrDuke]

"retarded fanboys"? wow. once again you are showing what a wonderful person you are. (btw, even the term retarded went out decades ago.)

People can watch these fights on youtube or elsewhere. It clear to see you are talking nonsense. One thing to disagree with someone about who was the best or whatever. But to start making stuff up and to needlessly insult someone is pathetic.

First you talk about someone's personality, then you talk about how pathetic is to insult someone. Are you out of your mind or are you just a hypocrite?

However, I'm pretty sure, that fanboys are worthy to be called retarded, regardless of your opinion about how out of date it is.

Ali went about 43 months without a fight. He had been back only five months when he fought Frazioer. You don't just pick up where you left off being out that amount of time. This is true with boxing and just about any sport.
Just watch the Frazier fight itself. He obviously was not as fast as he had been previously. That is obvious right away. His reflexes were not as good. His stamina wasn't as good; you can see him tired and have to pace himslef beofre the fight ws half over.

He just spent his prime years out of the competition in the ring, he wasn't injured, he wasn't old, he didn't suffer any tough losses, he did nothing to be out of his prime in the return in still credible age and shape. He could just get a little of rust, but he had an opportunity to get rid of it. So, all that "past prime against Frazier" stuff is no more than just an excuse. His reflexes, stamina and etc were as good, it was just and opponent, who was levels better and stylistically more dangerous than anyone he had met before.

Doug Jones? It was a good scrap. But it wasn't like he was about to be knocked out or something. This was only his 18th pro fight and he had been a pro for less than three years during the time of this fight. He was still improving with each fight.
If it was someone that you like you would be heaping praise on them for winning the Fight of the Year at such an early age. Instead you act like you have found the smoking gun.

Of course, I wouldn't use the Fight of the Year argument, like you're doing. I'm not delirious like you. Gatti also had FOTY awards FFS. What the hell you are trying to bring with that FOTY stuff, you bizarro???

You are living in an alternative universe if you think he was hurt against Chuvalo, Mildenberger, and Williams. Total nonsense. I (and many others of course) have seen all of these fights in their entirety. (As well as all of his title shots and just about all fights before he won the title)He was never hurt. He dominated these fights; lost maybe 6 rounds total at most in these title defenses combined.

Nah, that's you who are in the alternative universe of sexual attraction towards Ali.

[emallini]

Razor thin decision either way. Holyfield was phenomenal and could hang with anyone.

[Cojimar 1946]

In fairness to Ali, he did a far better job of cleaning out his era than most heavyweights. Many heavyweights would have far more losses than they had in actuality had they been willing to step up and fight everyone.

[Ambling Alp II]

"retarded fanboys"? wow. once again you are showing what a wonderful person you are. (btw, even the term retarded went out decades ago.)

People can watch these fights on youtube or elsewhere. It clear to see you are talking nonsense. One thing to disagree with someone about who was the best or whatever. But to start making stuff up and to needlessly insult someone is pathetic.

First you talk about someone's personality, then you talk about how pathetic is to insult someone. Are you out of your mind or are you just a hypocrite?

However, I'm pretty sure, that fanboys are worthy to be called retarded, regardless of your opinion about how out of date it is.

Ali went about 43 months without a fight. He had been back only five months when he fought Frazioer. You don't just pick up where you left off being out that amount of time. This is true with boxing and just about any sport.
Just watch the Frazier fight itself. He obviously was not as fast as he had been previously. That is obvious right away. His reflexes were not as good. His stamina wasn't as good; you can see him tired and have to pace himslef beofre the fight ws half over.

He just spent his prime years out of the competition in the ring, he wasn't injured, he wasn't old, he didn't suffer any tough losses, he did nothing to be out of his prime in the return in still credible age and shape. He could just get a little of rust, but he had an opportunity to get rid of it. So, all that "past prime against Frazier" stuff is no more than just an excuse. His reflexes, stamina and etc were as good, it was just and opponent, who was levels better and stylistically more dangerous than anyone he had met before.

Doug Jones? It was a good scrap. But it wasn't like he was about to be knocked out or something. This was only his 18th pro fight and he had been a pro for less than three years during the time of this fight. He was still improving with each fight.
If it was someone that you like you would be heaping praise on them for winning the Fight of the Year at such an early age. Instead you act like you have found the smoking gun.

Of course, I wouldn't use the Fight of the Year argument, like you're doing. I'm not delirious like you. Gatti also had FOTY awards FFS. What the hell you are trying to bring with that FOTY stuff, you bizarro???

You are living in an alternative universe if you think he was hurt against Chuvalo, Mildenberger, and Williams. Total nonsense. I (and many others of course) have seen all of these fights in their entirety. (As well as all of his title shots and just about all fights before he won the title)He was never hurt. He dominated these fights; lost maybe 6 rounds total at most in these title defenses combined.

Nah, that's you who are in the alternative universe of sexual attraction towards Ali.

Not going to dignify this with a response.

[DrDuke]

Not going to dignify this with a response.

You've already done it.