The fantasy fight - current Canelo vs, RJJ (1995) ?

[ValMar]

Who would win ?

[Paci]

Im going with Jones. Do think he would have eaten Canelo up at SMW. It was his best weight without a doubt.

Im think a UD for RJJ

[Bard of Boxrec]

Jones without too much trouble

[DrDuke]

Jones. He was too superman even for the redhead.

[KiwiRider]

Massive vote for Roy definitely.
Myself included. Roy shined like the sun for a few years.

[Enlightened-One]

Here’s are my thoughts.

The prime version of Roy Jones Jr. probably beats the current iteration of Canelo at 168lbs. However, there are a number of caveats that need to be considered:

1) Canelo hasn’t reached his prime yet. He seems to be improving every time we see him compete.

2) Canelo has consistently faced superior opposition than those Jones Jr. fought during his 160lbs to 168lbs heyday. That’s not to say that Roy didn't beat some really impressive fighters, because he clearly did, it’s just that he faced a lot of journeymen too. And it’s obviously far more challenging for Canelo to look impressive during each and every single outing if he's having to share the ring with (generally) superior opposition.

3) Roy Jones Jr. was rarely tested for PED’s and he even managed to escape punishment when he eventually tested positive five or six times over the acceptable level for certain banned steroids. No one really knows how good a “clean” version Jones Jr. would have been during his prime years.

4) The only genuinely impressive name on Jones Jr’s resume, during his very brief two-year stint at 168lbs was his victory over a weight-drained version of James Toney that was suffering from an eating disorder (with 'Lights Out' being fairly fortunate to have previously gained victories over Nunn, Tiberi, Johnson and McCallum).

5) Most people feel compelled to perceive history through nostalgic rose-tinted glasses, where they suffer from an automated knee-jerk compulsion to judge the past disproportionately more positively than they judge the present, simply because "Nothing today is quite like the good ole days!"

6) Canelo is a notoriously difficult fighter to beat via decision. Competing as the A-side, he usually receives the benefit of the doubt on the judges’ scorecards during particularly competitive rounds.

In all honesty, based solely on the proverbial eyeball test, the 1995 version of Roy Jones Jr. might be better than Canelo is today, but it would be an incredibly competitive affair. And there's every likelihood that in a year or two, I might change my mind about this.

[emallini]

Jones would bounce around beating him to the punch all night long. Jones would be long gone before Canelos counters came. Jones 12-0.

[emallini]

Here’s are my thoughts.

The prime version of Roy Jones Jr. probably beats the current iteration of Canelo at 168lbs. However, there are a number of caveats that need to be considered:

1) Canelo hasn’t reached his prime yet. He seems to be improving every time we see him compete.

2) Canelo has consistently faced superior opposition than those Jones Jr. fought during his 160lbs to 168lbs heyday. That’s not to say that Roy didn't beat some really impressive fighters, because he clearly did, it’s just that he faced a lot of journeymen too. And it’s obviously far more challenging for Canelo to look impressive during each and every single outing if he's having to share the ring with (generally) superior opposition.

3) Roy Jones Jr. was rarely tested for PED’s and he even managed to escape punishment when he eventually tested positive five or six times over the acceptable level for certain banned steroids. No one really knows how good a “clean” version Jones Jr. would have been during his prime years.

4) The only genuinely impressive name on Jones Jr’s resume, during his very brief two-year stint at 168lbs was his victory over a weight-drained version of James Toney that was suffering from an eating disorder (with 'Lights Out' being fairly fortunate to have previously gained victories over Nunn, Tiberi, Johnson and McCallum).

5) Most people feel compelled to perceive history through nostalgic rose-tinted glasses, where they suffer from an automated knee-jerk compulsion to judge the past disproportionately more positively than they judge the present, simply because "Nothing today is quite like the good ole days!"

6) Canelo is a notoriously difficult fighter to beat via decision. Competing as the A-side, he usually receives the benefit of the doubt on the judges’ scorecards during particularly competitive rounds.

In all honesty, based solely on the proverbial eyeball test, the 1995 version of Roy Jones Jr. might be better than Canelo is today, but it would be an incredibly competitive affair. And there's every likelihood that in a year or two, I might change my mind about this.

Not one mention of the style match up and how the attributes of each fighter would come together.

[The Gratest]

Jones jr however he wanted.

[Enlightened-One]

Here’s are my thoughts.

The prime version of Roy Jones Jr. probably beats the current iteration of Canelo at 168lbs. However, there are a number of caveats that need to be considered:

1) Canelo hasn’t reached his prime yet. He seems to be improving every time we see him compete.

2) Canelo has consistently faced superior opposition than those Jones Jr. fought during his 160lbs to 168lbs heyday. That’s not to say that Roy didn't beat some really impressive fighters, because he clearly did, it’s just that he faced a lot of journeymen too. And it’s obviously far more challenging for Canelo to look impressive during each and every single outing if he's having to share the ring with (generally) superior opposition.

3) Roy Jones Jr. was rarely tested for PED’s and he even managed to escape punishment when he eventually tested positive five or six times over the acceptable level for certain banned steroids. No one really knows how good a “clean” version Jones Jr. would have been during his prime years.

4) The only genuinely impressive name on Jones Jr’s resume, during his very brief two-year stint at 168lbs was his victory over a weight-drained version of James Toney that was suffering from an eating disorder (with 'Lights Out' being fairly fortunate to have previously gained victories over Nunn, Tiberi, Johnson and McCallum).

5) Most people feel compelled to perceive history through nostalgic rose-tinted glasses, where they suffer from an automated knee-jerk compulsion to judge the past disproportionately more positively than they judge the present, simply because "Nothing today is quite like the good ole days!"

6) Canelo is a notoriously difficult fighter to beat via decision. Competing as the A-side, he usually receives the benefit of the doubt on the judges’ scorecards during particularly competitive rounds.

In all honesty, based solely on the proverbial eyeball test, the 1995 version of Roy Jones Jr. might be better than Canelo is today, but it would be an incredibly competitive affair. And there's every likelihood that in a year or two, I might change my mind about this.

Not one mention of the style match up and how the attributes of each fighter would come together.

And neither have you really.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Canelo easily. If you can beat 168 pound atg like callum smith and rocky fielding, what chance does prime roy jones have?

[JimJim2009]

Jones would bounce around beating him to the punch all night long. Jones would be long gone before Canelos counters came. Jones 12-0.

That was my first reaction to this fantasy fight too.

[gilgamesh]

Jones has every physical advantage here. He's faster, he's stronger, he's better, quicker reflexes.

Jones would win every single round, and either stop Canelo late or win a shutout decision.

I honestly can't see Canelo winning a round.

[Enlightened-One]

Jones has every physical advantage here. He's faster, he's stronger, he's better, quicker reflexes.

Jones would win every single round, and either stop Canelo late or win a shutout decision.

I honestly can't see Canelo winning a round.

We know for certain that Roy Jones Jr. once tested positive for banned substances (i.e. testing five of six times over the acceptable limits for steroids [testosterone precursor androstenedione]), but we don’t know how many times he consumed PED’s (voluntarily or otherwise) throughout the course of his career, since he was rarely tested during his prime years.

In today’s world, with VADA’s “clean” & “fair” boxing programs with the WBC & WBA, we can only speculate how effective Jones Jr’s in-ring performances would have been had the prime version of Roy been around today, since I honestly don’t know for certain whether some of his remarkable displays were due to his natural talent or cheating.

Would Roy Jones Jr. be capable of becoming the “king of the hill” (his words), in today’s sport, if he had to remain clean in order to compete at the highest level?

That’s the elephant in the room that people are obviously tiptoeing around, because nobody cares to address this massive blemish or question mark about the legitimacy of Jones Jr’s legacy.

The weird thing about Jones Jr., which I find interesting, is that he nearly always seems to defend fighters that have tested positive for PED’s (i.e. Jon Jones). And that for me, is rather telling.

Roy Jones Jr. was a phenomenal athlete until 2002/03, but as soon as he lost a split second in his overall movement speed and reaction times, he suddenly became vulnerable to the point he was very beatable.

And that's an important point to consider, because no one can possibly pretend that consuming PED's doesn't provide athletes in general with a slight performance improvement, can they?

[apollo creed]

Canelo easily. If you can beat 168 pound atg like callum smith and rocky fielding, what chance does prime roy jones have?

No doubt! By beating two top notch atg fighters like Callum Smith (Ryder's has-been) and Rocky Fielding then I think a prime RJJ would be in serious troubles against Canelo.

[apollo creed]

2009 Arthur Abraham that KO Taylor would give a tough fight to Canelo.

[gilgamesh]

Jones has every physical advantage here. He's faster, he's stronger, he's better, quicker reflexes.

Jones would win every single round, and either stop Canelo late or win a shutout decision.

I honestly can't see Canelo winning a round.

We know for certain that Roy Jones Jr. once tested positive for banned substances (i.e. testing five of six times over the acceptable limits for steroids [testosterone precursor androstenedione]), but we don’t know how many times he consumed PED’s (voluntarily or otherwise) throughout the course of his career, since he was rarely tested during his prime years.

In today’s world, with VADA’s “clean” & “fair” boxing programs with the WBC & WBA, we can only speculate how effective Jones Jr’s in-ring performances would have been had the prime version of Roy been around today, since I honestly don’t know for certain whether some of his remarkable displays were due to his natural talent or cheating.

Would Roy Jones Jr. be capable of becoming the “king of the hill” (his words), in today’s sport, if he had to remain clean in order to compete at the highest level?

That’s the elephant in the room that people are obviously tiptoeing around, because nobody cares to address this massive blemish or question mark about the legitimacy of Jones Jr’s legacy.

The weird thing about Jones Jr., which I find interesting, is that he nearly always seems to defend fighters that have tested positive for PED’s (i.e. Jon Jones). And that for me, is rather telling.

Roy Jones Jr. was a phenomenal athlete until 2002/03, but as soon as he lost a split second in his overall movement speed and reaction times, he suddenly became vulnerable to the point he was very beatable.

And that's an important point to consider, because no one can possibly pretend that consuming PED's doesn't provide athletes in general with a slight performance improvement, can they?

Cool story bro.

Roy Jones Jr. to win a shutout or late stoppage after shutting him out up to that point is my final answer. Thanks for playing.

[Enlightened-One]

The juiced-up version of Jones Jr. beats today's iteration of Canelo by a 116-112 margin (8 rounds to 4). This is based on the highlight-reel version that wasn't being tested.

A clean version of Jones Jr., which no one ever saw during his prime, having to undergo regular unannounced blood-based drug testing according to today's protocols, probably gets stopped by Canelo between rounds 7 & 10.

Roy would probably be leading the fight at the time of the stoppage though, but the Mexican would eventually clip him at some, after the American starts to show signs of fatigue.

Because let's face it, durability isn't one of Roy's strengths. He relied solely on his unorthodox style to avoid getting hit. And without the benefit of steroids, he couldn't possibly be as athletically gifted as thejuiced up version of the man we see on his highlight reels.

Canelo is improving though, so I reckon in two years my opinion may be completely different.

[margaret thatcher]

juiced vs beefed

[Enlightened-One]

juiced vs beefed

According to the current threshold rules surrounding clenbuterol, Canelo would not have been deemed guilty of consuming a banned substance. He was ultimately cleared of committing any wrongdoing by WADA, the WBC and also the NSAC.

And let’s be perfectly honest, if Canelo really wanted to cheat, he wouldn’t have taken some cheap ḁṡṡ ṡhḯt like clenbuterol, which is the same over-the-counter diet pills that housewives, struggling actors and amateur bodybuilders are able to take (without a prescription in Mexico) to burn fat.

[margaret thatcher]

knew that would do it

[gilgamesh]

The juiced-up version of Jones Jr. beats today's iteration of Canelo by a 116-112 margin (8 rounds to 4). This is based on the highlight-reel version that wasn't being tested.

A clean version of Jones Jr., which no one ever saw during his prime, having to undergo regular unannounced blood-based drug testing according to today's protocols, probably gets stopped by Canelo between rounds 7 & 10.

Roy would probably be leading the fight at the time of the stoppage though, but the Mexican would eventually clip him at some, after the American starts to show signs of fatigue.

Because let's face it, durability isn't one of Roy's strengths. He relied solely on his unorthodox style to avoid getting hit. And without the benefit of steroids, he couldn't possibly be as athletically gifted as thejuiced up version of the man we see on his highlight reels.

Canelo is improving though, so I reckon in two years my opinion may be completely different.

This entire post is nothing but assumptions.

My opinion is based on the 2 fighters we've seen in the ring.

[adislav123]

eo, how exactly you reckon canelo would win those 4 rounds in a fantasy matchup of both fighters roided up full throttle/fair play?

[emallini]

The juiced-up version of Jones Jr. beats today's iteration of Canelo by a 116-112 margin (8 rounds to 4). This is based on the highlight-reel version that wasn't being tested.

A clean version of Jones Jr., which no one ever saw during his prime, having to undergo regular unannounced blood-based drug testing according to today's protocols, probably gets stopped by Canelo between rounds 7 & 10.

Roy would probably be leading the fight at the time of the stoppage though, but the Mexican would eventually clip him at some, after the American starts to show signs of fatigue.

Because let's face it, durability isn't one of Roy's strengths. He relied solely on his unorthodox style to avoid getting hit. And without the benefit of steroids, he couldn't possibly be as athletically gifted as thejuiced up version of the man we see on his highlight reels.

Canelo is improving though, so I reckon in two years my opinion may be completely different.

Is this the juiced version of Canelo aswell?

[Enlightened-One]

The juiced-up version of Jones Jr. beats today's iteration of Canelo by a 116-112 margin (8 rounds to 4). This is based on the highlight-reel version that wasn't being tested.

A clean version of Jones Jr., which no one ever saw during his prime, having to undergo regular unannounced blood-based drug testing according to today's protocols, probably gets stopped by Canelo between rounds 7 & 10.

Roy would probably be leading the fight at the time of the stoppage though, but the Mexican would eventually clip him at some, after the American starts to show signs of fatigue.

Because let's face it, durability isn't one of Roy's strengths. He relied solely on his unorthodox style to avoid getting hit. And without the benefit of steroids, he couldn't possibly be as athletically gifted as thejuiced up version of the man we see on his highlight reels.

Canelo is improving though, so I reckon in two years my opinion may be completely different.

This entire post is nothing but assumptions.

My opinion is based on the 2 fighters we've seen in the ring.

And so is mine.

Any assertion that cannot be tested and disproved should be regarded as an opinion. It cannot be considered an hypothesis or as being “fact”.

We’ve have been asked to express an opinion about the potential outcome of a fantasy fight between two men separated by a 21-year age gap.

So I’ve submitted two opinions based on the:

1) Juiced-up version of Roid Jones Jr. – the man we both saw look deeply impressive during his prime, that didn’t undergo drug testing
2) And the allegedly “clean” version (though the drug-testing protocols in 2000 weren’t anywhere as strict as they are today), I saw compete against Eric Harding & Derrick Harmon

Five facts you can’t dispute though:

1) Roid Jones Jr. rarely had to undergo random unannounced drug testing during his heyday.
2) Roid tested positive for a significant amount of steroids during the Richard Hall fight. Under the IBF rules should have submitted a B-sample for further testing, but Roid refused so. And Jones Jr’s performances noticeably dipped for his next two outings against Eric Harding & Derrick Harmon, when he was forced to undergo testing.
3) Roid Jones Jr. (and other past drug cheats) would never get away with these dodgy shenanigans today.
4) Athletes consume PED’s because they improve competitiveness and performance
5) And as soon as Jones Jr. lost a split second in his overall movement speed and reaction times, he suddenly became vulnerable to the point he was very beatable.

Roid Jones Jr's conqueror, Antonio Tarver, was himself exposed as a drugs cheat in 2012.

And here's was Roid had to say about him:

"You can call it a lucky punch but he did have to throw it. You can call it lucky or unlucky. The only problem I got is now that he's tested positive for steroids, it's very possible that he was on steroids when it happened. Other than that, it was a good punch, a clean punch - so I just can't go off that it was a lucky punch. But if he was on steroids, then it makes me understand on how he was able to stand there and why he was so confident to throw it, because he knows he's on steroids. Other than that, I don't complain about a lucky punch because lucky punches happen."