Williams-v-Skelton II - repeat or revenge?

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 08 Jul 2006, 18:45

states wrote:Arthur has left a few trainers, I'm not sure he's the best example.

Yes, and Arthur was undefeated with McDonnell also.

Tak hasn't had a bad career under Jim also.

Danny has admitted saying he didn't want to know Jim prior to the Harrison fight- he wanted to do it alone. Why? Cause he doesn't like to train end of.

I suppose it was all Manny Stewards fault that Hamed lost his edge and his ability to train at the tail end of his career. It wasn't Manny or even Oscar Suarez's fault - only one man's fault and that was Hamed.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 08 Jul 2006, 18:45

Also, Mc Donnell is delusional enough to think his weight ain't a problem.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 08 Jul 2006, 18:47

Max Molyneux wrote:Also, Mc Donnell is delusional enough to think his weight ain't a problem.

And Danny's concerned about his weight then.

WildWaylon · Post by **WildWaylon** » 08 Jul 2006, 18:50

Sorry I was wrong about Skelton stopping Williams but if he had a hand injury he basically couldnt - I was also wrong saying Williams wouldnt last to the 12th but he did - However I did say Skelton would win and he did - Skelton said he would change nothing and fight the same fight as he did before but he didnt - This time he outboxed Williams by being quick and stepping aside - Matt won it by 5 rnds IMO and deserved it - He is the best we have in Brtitain without a doubt but as I said before the beast from the east will be too much for him again IMO - We dont need a number one that is sometimes brilliant and on other occasions useless and thats the way Williams is - Somebody said you never know which Danny Williams is turning up to fight - With Skelton you know he will give the best he has to offer every time - He did learn a lot from their first meeting and he changed his tactics knowing how to beat Williams with skills he rarely shows - For a fighter 39ish and I think he has seen 40 he did amazingly well keeping on his toes as a heavyweight - Even the great Ali didnt do that in the later rounds of his fights - Matt Skelton is a lot lot better than most of you give credit to him for - I congratulate him for a great achievement and will back him as always in the future - I hope he can get the world title and one thing we can be sure of he will do everything possible to win it

states · Post by **states** » 08 Jul 2006, 18:51

Max, it's Danny's fault at the end of the day. When you make Matt Skelton look like Ali, you've only got yourself to blame.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 08 Jul 2006, 18:59

There helping and paid to so they are part to blame Stu. States I know it's Danny's fault also, just stating as a trainer Mc Donnell is partly to blame too.

And Danny's concerned about his weight then.

No but it says something about Mc Donnell too that he may not be the right trainer for Danny.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 08 Jul 2006, 19:08

Max Molyneux wrote:There helping and paid to so they are part to blame Stu. States I know it's Danny's fault also, just stating as a trainer Mc Donnell is partly to blame too.

And Danny's concerned about his weight then.
No but it says something about Mc Donnell too that he may not be the right trainer for Danny.

Maybe your right, Max. I just think though that if Hamed would have had Brendan Ingle, Manny Steward, Freddy Roach, Joe Goosen, Buddy McGirt or anybody at that stage - same consequence.

Same I think will be the result with Danny. I won't last an 8 week training camp with someone like Freddie Roach - he would turf Danny out and Danny wouldn't cope anyway. Having said that, thinking about Michael Moorer's condition for the Holyfield rematch, perhaps he would take the money and not worry about his reputation.

But yes, if Danny does want to continue - then he has got to try someone else, cause its plain that its not working. I personally don't think it will work with anyone, but its got to try. As I said though, I hope for his reputation that Jim says to Danny "retire, or if you comeback your doing it without me".

Danny is fighting for the wrong reasons, I don't think he is short of money - but he is only fighting cause he thinks the devision is crap. He is right, but like Chazz Witherspoon it won't get him anywhere.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 08 Jul 2006, 19:12

Well Danny shouldn't be short of dosh. He did fight Klitschko on a PPV, so he should of got some good earnings out of HBO and Sky for that.

Shame he probably wouldn't go up North and try Hatton's trainers, they burn off the fat off Hatton well! With their conditioning, he wouldn\t be the fatarse he is. :x

I'm mostly just pissed because I like Danny and wanted him to win.

Notice Warren was saying the winner of the first fight would of got a shot at a title but he wouldn't of only done it if Skelton won, Warren's was biased for Skelton all along.

Boxingmad · Post by **Boxingmad** » 08 Jul 2006, 19:20

Well, it just goes to show that all this fancy modern stuff ain't all that. What's wrong with just good ol' fashion hard work in the gym, eating right and getting out on the roads and putting the miles in.

Take Marvin Hagler. Always punished himself in training, was completely and utterly focused and refused to let the notion of defeat enter his head. Same with Bernard Hopkins. Both of them ruled the roost for many years.

I think a good trainer would be Jim Evans in Maidenhead. Old fashioned, works his charges hard and knows the game. He watches over his lads like a hawk.

Achybreaky · Post by **Achybreaky** » 08 Jul 2006, 19:22

wildwaylon wrote:Sorry I was wrong about Skelton stopping Williams but if he had a hand injury he basically couldnt - I was also wrong saying Williams wouldnt last to the 12th but he did - However I did say Skelton would win and he did - Skelton said he would change nothing and fight the same fight as he did before but he didnt - This time he outboxed Williams by being quick and stepping aside - Matt won it by 5 rnds IMO and deserved it - He is the best we have in Brtitain without a doubt but as I said before the beast from the east will be too much for him again IMO - We dont need a number one that is sometimes brilliant and on other occasions useless and thats the way Williams is - Somebody said you never know which Danny Williams is turning up to fight - With Skelton you know he will give the best he has to offer every time - He did learn a lot from their first meeting and he changed his tactics knowing how to beat Williams with skills he rarely shows - For a fighter 39ish and I think he has seen 40 he did amazingly well keeping on his toes as a heavyweight - Even the great Ali didnt do that in the later rounds of his fights - Matt Skelton is a lot lot better than most of you give credit to him for - I congratulate him for a great achievement and will back him as always in the future - I hope he can get the world title and one thing we can be sure of he will do everything possible to win it

Did you just mention skelton and ali in the same sentence?!!!! fair dues to skelton but lets be realistic. He beat an overweight danny williams who threw 10 punches a round.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 08 Jul 2006, 19:25

Max Molyneux wrote:
Notice Warren was saying the winner of the first fight would of got a shot at a title but he wouldn't of only done it if Skelton won, Warren's was biased for Skelton all along.

You could be correct, but my money on neither fighting Valuev.

Twinkle Toes · Post by **Twinkle Toes** » 09 Jul 2006, 03:22

I agree with Max to be honest - McDonnell has a lot to answer for.

For years there has been so much made of his fitness regime - I'm totoally not convinced - Nice guy and all that, but its happened to many times now.

McDonnell, he is Williams trainer, and that is what trainers should do - His own self esteem shouldnt allow himself to be attached to a fighter that is going to get in a ring so out of shape.

Its also odd that Takaloo has been comfortably able to drop a weight too.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 09 Jul 2006, 05:48

stujones wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:
Notice Warren was saying the winner of the first fight would of got a shot at a title but he wouldn't of only done it if Skelton won, Warren's was biased for Skelton all along.
You could be correct, but my money on neither fighting Valuev.

I don't think King and Sauerland would accept an offer from Warren for Skelton to fight Valuev, but I wouldn't be suprised if it happened though. King was quoted in Boxing Monthly mentioning Mc Bride as an opponent for Valuev!

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 09 Jul 2006, 06:59

Max Molyneux wrote:
stujones wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:
Notice Warren was saying the winner of the first fight would of got a shot at a title but he wouldn't of only done it if Skelton won, Warren's was biased for Skelton all along.
You could be correct, but my money on neither fighting Valuev.
I don't think King and Sauerland would accept an offer from Warren for Skelton to fight Valuev, but I wouldn't be suprised if it happened though. King was quoted in Boxing Monthly mentioning Mc Bride as an opponent for Valuev!

Due to where McBride has been based for years and his skin colour, he is alot more marketable for Valuev than a 39 year old Kickboxer.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 09 Jul 2006, 08:42

stujones wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:
stujones wrote: You could be correct, but my money on neither fighting Valuev.
I don't think King and Sauerland would accept an offer from Warren for Skelton to fight Valuev, but I wouldn't be suprised if it happened though. King was quoted in Boxing Monthly mentioning Mc Bride as an opponent for Valuev!
Due to where McBride has been based for years and his skin colour, he is alot more marketable for Valuev than a 39 year old Kickboxer.

Or because theirs alot of people with Irish roots living in New York, which is where King wants to take Valuev.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 09 Jul 2006, 18:08

McDonnell is a nice fella but totally overrated IMO.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 09 Jul 2006, 18:34

wildwaylon wrote:Sorry I was wrong about Skelton stopping Williams but if he had a hand injury he basically couldnt - I was also wrong saying Williams wouldnt last to the 12th but he did - However I did say Skelton would win and he did - Skelton said he would change nothing and fight the same fight as he did before but he didnt - This time he outboxed Williams by being quick and stepping aside - Matt won it by 5 rnds IMO and deserved it - He is the best we have in Brtitain without a doubt but as I said before the beast from the east will be too much for him again IMO - We dont need a number one that is sometimes brilliant and on other occasions useless and thats the way Williams is - Somebody said you never know which Danny Williams is turning up to fight - With Skelton you know he will give the best he has to offer every time - He did learn a lot from their first meeting and he changed his tactics knowing how to beat Williams with skills he rarely shows - For a fighter 39ish and I think he has seen 40 he did amazingly well keeping on his toes as a heavyweight - Even the great Ali didnt do that in the later rounds of his fights - Matt Skelton is a lot lot better than most of you give credit to him for - I congratulate him for a great achievement and will back him as always in the future - I hope he can get the world title and one thing we can be sure of he will do everything possible to win it

Hang on, Skelton managed to dance around a guy as mobile as a glacier and as well conditioned as a tramps hair. Congratulations to Matt, but even a 40 year Ali would have shown him up to be as graceful as a Gnu on roller skates. The change of tactics was the right move, but watching Skelton showboating and lumbering around like that was slightly cringeworthy, it was like watching someone making a twat of themselves on blind date.

Nothing against Matt, he's done very well with his brief career, and he showed up Danny's terrificly piss poor conditioning by not standing in front of him and trading, but any talk of a world title seems fanciful even in today's paper thin division. I suppose he may stand a semblance of a chance against Valuev, but you'd have to think the big feller would just be too strong, and Valuev can actually box pretty well, and despite his lack of punch power, the sheer weight of his punch would probably be enough to overwhelm a dwarfed Skelton.

revporl · Post by **revporl** » 09 Jul 2006, 18:55

Has there been any comment from the Williams camp yet? I thought it was the worse display I've seen from him and Skelton wasn't much better. At least the referee was on top in this one, not like the first fight.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 09 Jul 2006, 19:05

revporl wrote:Has there been any comment from the Williams camp yet? I thought it was the worse display I've seen from him and Skelton wasn't much better. At least the referee was on top in this one, not like the first fight.

Think the occasion got to the ref a bit... Thought Barry's opinion was spot on about Foster's performance. How many times did he give them a talking to without deducting points, not that I'm saying they needed to deduct points - but they didn't need a talking to either, it was a clean(ish) contest this time.

jomothepure · Post by **jomothepure** » 10 Jul 2006, 04:21

Well this was sad. Was Williams deluding us that he was in great shape, or was he deluding himself too?

McDonnell surely had to know this could easily happen if Williams turned up like he did. The only game plan I can see them working to would be to let Skelton dance around and wait for the moment to KO him, using Danny's 1 inch thicker biceps. Other than that, improved hand speed etc. Bah. Can't comment on stamina, as he lasted 12 rounds but didn't actually do anything to test the stamina. And his balance was an absolute embarrassing joke. As I said at the start, did DW and JMc plan this shape and expect a different outcome, or did one (or both) of them realise that Williams was smegged and just decided to talk shit before the fight? Given Williams was at a two year low or something (weightwise) in his last fight, I actually think the former, in which case severe question marks over the tactics.

Fair play to Skelton. Did what he had to do. Took his game plan straight from the "how to fight weebles" textbook. I also found his attempts at attractive combinations and showmanship very amusing.
Can't see how he'd ever beat Valuev though. He won't KO him, he won't get a decision. I don't begrudge him going in there, and picking up a handsome cheque in return for a commendable short career which went a good way to filling in the current attrocious state of British heavies.

Whether this title shot will materialise though I don't know. I know someone said that King preferred Skelton to Williams, but I'm not sure why. Williams appears (appearred anyway) by far the more marketable, what with the wins over Tyson, Harrison, and his fight with Klitchko. We'll see what happens anyway.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 10 Jul 2006, 05:58

Before the first fight King preferred Skelton, must have been his unbeaten record at that time I would say.

jomothepure · Post by **jomothepure** » 10 Jul 2006, 06:05

Ah rite. That's understandable

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 10 Jul 2006, 06:12

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Hang on, Skelton managed to dance around a guy as mobile as a glacier and as well conditioned as a tramps hair. Congratulations to Matt, but even a 40 year Ali would have shown him up to be as graceful as a Gnu on roller skates. The change of tactics was the right move, but watching Skelton showboating and lumbering around like that was slightly cringeworthy, it was like watching someone making a twat of themselves on blind date.

Some great similes!

Awful fight. I dread to imagine the horrific spectacle if Skelton takes on Valuev.