A "B" movie,An "A" Life
Trying to think back about what the sports scene was like in Southern California in the 1950's is like watching one one of those film noir black and white B movies.If I had to pick a category of my favorite genre of flicks I'd go with that ilk.A good cowboy a close second.Those film noir movies they produced were cranked out at a pretty good rate. They were usually the second feature under the marquis at the local movie house.Every neighborhood had their local theater,usually privately owned. The names were often the same-The Bijou,The Savoy,The Roxy.There were always the kids matiness on Saturday mornings. The Strand was our neighborhood movie house. They liked to show those grade B horror movies,usually a pair on Saturday mornings for a quarter. But looking back at those scary movies of the 50's they all of the B type. All that meant was that they didn't cost much to make.
I'm at an age now where I think a lot of those big name movies stars were overrated.Bette Davis overacted ,never did nothing for me. Kate Hepburn too except for her part in the African Queen.Liz Taylor had big tits but no talent. Joan Crawford tried too hard to be a star.I'll run down some of the males. Brando-a real joke in The Wild One,and a consummate ham..Robert Taylor and Alan Ladd-real boring. And Cary Grant I got to admit had talent but because he struggled with his sexuality he couldn't pull off a love scene..And I could never see what they saw in Rock Hudson.
I liked those lesser stars. For the gals I am a big Marie Windsor fan. Gail Storm always turned me on. Mary Castle who was in those Stories Of The Century westerns with Jim Davis was a real looker.Their male counterparts- give me Sterling Hayden,Robert Ryan,Richard Widmark.Guys like Steve Brodie,Scott Brady,and Steve Cochran-they were solid.Oh,before I forget,my favorite cowboy,Jim Arness as Marshall Matt Dillon.
I could go on and on .Why some of those stars shouldn't have radiated so much and why others should have.
Since Hollywood was the Mecca for the film industry some of the local athletes in town got some rolls in the movies.I'll stick with the fighters because this is a boxing forum and I often stray from the theme. When Art Aragon was the hottest sports commodity in LA the Hollywood set would catch The Golden Boy in action walking distance from the studios at the Hollywood Legion Stadium, and then drive downtown to the Olympic Auditorium. Aragon never had any of those leading role parts.Let's face it ,just having some lines in a Hollywood production is enough to carom a fighter from his regimen of training to living in the to fast lane.It had an effect with Art chasing those starlets around like trying to corner a fighter in the ring. The moguls would grab him for roles where he mostly played himself. Then there were were beefier parts in movies like To Hell and back and World In My Corner. Audie Murphy was the leading man in those two movies. Murphy and Aragon became good pals.Such pals that Art named one of his sons Audie. In World In My Corner Murphy plays the part of a fighter.He said that Art taught him some of the skills that go along with pugilism.Art said that Audie had a knack for fighting.I guess. How many combat ribbons did he earn including the Congressional Medal Of Honor?
In a sense both Audie Murphy and Art Aragon were B movie stars.They were never going to supplant Rock Hudson.But both would have never made it to the Silver Screen if it hadn't been for what they did before that. Art KO'd fighters and Audie KO'd Germans.Somehow there's a strange irony in that.I just can't put my finger o it.
Art Aragon
Classic American West Coast Boxing
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dagosd2000
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Is it true that Aragon concealed the fact that he was fluent in Spanish ? His motive being that he wanted to be hated by the Hispanic fans ?
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dagosd2000
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Goose
Aragon spoke Spanish.but any way you slice it (and it's always been this way)the Mexican fans in LA,whether Chicano or Mexican nationals have always backed the Mexican national when he fights a Chicano.Some way Mexicans think that Mexican nationals are more Mexican than the Chicano. I remember when De La Hoya won the flyweight Gold Medal in the Olympics. It was like a footnote on the Mexican news. I remember the reporter saying...
"Oscar De La Hoya,the American,won a Gold Medal."
And that was all that was said.
All the great Chicano fighters in LA had to deal with the slight,It was frustrating .They were seen as Americans by Mexico.
When I was coaching U.S. football in Tijuana one of the players wanted to come to San Diego (where I transferred)to play football. We got him up here on a Foreign Exchange Program. That meant he had to live in San Diego with a family. The first thing he said to me was...
"I don't want to live with a Chicano family."
Asi es Mexico
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dagosd2000
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dagosd2000
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
The Wop With The Mop
I was reading about Al Capone's stint in the pen in Atlanta and Alcatraz after being convicted of not paying his federal income taxes.Here was a man that ran the rackets in Chicago through fear ,and once he landed in the slammer he became an object of ridicule. He was taunted and attacked to the point he became a whimpering madman.He had to share a cell with a common criminal.He wasn't made a trustee. He was assigned to mopping floors thus acquiring the nickname"The Wop With The Mop.He was stabbed in the back with a pair of scissors because he wouldn't give some low life safecracker from Texas 3 grand. When he was asleep it wasn't unusual for some passing inmate to throw a bucket of s--t on him.The only people who visited him were his wife and son. He constantly harped about his lawyers feeling they weren't working on his behalf like they should considering what he was paying them.
I told you how his second in command,Frank Nitti,sold him down the river. He met with Capone's lawyers, Ahern and Fink, inside Capone's mother's house on South Prairie Avenue. My father ,who was staying there after they gunned down his old man,Diamond Joe,overheard Nitti tell the Lawyers that the venereal disease that was eating away at Capone's brain would make him a squash after a awhile- so throw him under the bus.Besides,Nitti wanted to be the top dog. So Al got 10,served 7 because by that time he didn't know his own name. He died in 1947 at his Palm Beach estate.
Along the same lines ,when Mike Tyson went away on that rape charge he became low man on the totem pole when he walked inside the prison yard.The once intimidating heavyweight champion of the world became a cowering stranger in a strange land.The first thing he did was hook up with prisoners of his own color.That's how it is when you go away. You got o belong to some gang or you're a queen passed around.And it wasn't like they wanted to get his autograph. If anything he was below their level and he had to pay his dues.Get me that.Give me what you have.Or...In a nutshell Iron Mike was one scared bitch.
When he got his release he was up to his old schtick again trying to scare everyone ,but now there were a few that didn't buy that ruse anymore. Evander Holyfield being one.Al Capone.Mike Tyson.There were two guys that got a taste of what real fear was and their rep couldn't do a damn thing about it.If anything it made them more of a mark.
Mike"Don't Drop The Soap" Tyson
I was reading about Al Capone's stint in the pen in Atlanta and Alcatraz after being convicted of not paying his federal income taxes.Here was a man that ran the rackets in Chicago through fear ,and once he landed in the slammer he became an object of ridicule. He was taunted and attacked to the point he became a whimpering madman.He had to share a cell with a common criminal.He wasn't made a trustee. He was assigned to mopping floors thus acquiring the nickname"The Wop With The Mop.He was stabbed in the back with a pair of scissors because he wouldn't give some low life safecracker from Texas 3 grand. When he was asleep it wasn't unusual for some passing inmate to throw a bucket of s--t on him.The only people who visited him were his wife and son. He constantly harped about his lawyers feeling they weren't working on his behalf like they should considering what he was paying them.
I told you how his second in command,Frank Nitti,sold him down the river. He met with Capone's lawyers, Ahern and Fink, inside Capone's mother's house on South Prairie Avenue. My father ,who was staying there after they gunned down his old man,Diamond Joe,overheard Nitti tell the Lawyers that the venereal disease that was eating away at Capone's brain would make him a squash after a awhile- so throw him under the bus.Besides,Nitti wanted to be the top dog. So Al got 10,served 7 because by that time he didn't know his own name. He died in 1947 at his Palm Beach estate.
Along the same lines ,when Mike Tyson went away on that rape charge he became low man on the totem pole when he walked inside the prison yard.The once intimidating heavyweight champion of the world became a cowering stranger in a strange land.The first thing he did was hook up with prisoners of his own color.That's how it is when you go away. You got o belong to some gang or you're a queen passed around.And it wasn't like they wanted to get his autograph. If anything he was below their level and he had to pay his dues.Get me that.Give me what you have.Or...In a nutshell Iron Mike was one scared bitch.
When he got his release he was up to his old schtick again trying to scare everyone ,but now there were a few that didn't buy that ruse anymore. Evander Holyfield being one.Al Capone.Mike Tyson.There were two guys that got a taste of what real fear was and their rep couldn't do a damn thing about it.If anything it made them more of a mark.
Mike"Don't Drop The Soap" Tyson
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dagosd2000
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Burke's Law
Burke Emery reminded me a the typical fighter who had that atypical lifestyle growing up as a kid. His girlfriend Shirley would sometimes remark that it was no wonder that Burke wound up as a prizefighter or he probably would have been a criminal behind bars. Sometimes the distinction is inseparable.Burke on the other hand thought that his life was sort of common and that Shirley's take on it was an overreaction.
Burke would laugh when he was working his and Shirley's joint,Champs, about tending bar in the old days in Montreal and that every night around closing time fights would break out between the Englishmen and the French.He was fighting pro then but supplemented his income slinging drinks.Burke being a Canadian with a fondness towards the Brits would always jump into the frays backing the Union Jack. But Burke held no real grudges with the "frogs" which he liked to call them. He just thought barroom fights were fun.
Then he got an idea.Why not charge admission to the non participants who wanted to see blood but not shed any of their own?So at closing time the contestants understood that the doors would be locked and any viewers would have to cough up a coupe of bucks to see the fisticuffs. At the end of the week the proceeds would be divvied up between the battlers and everyone would go home with a good deal of pocket money.
Burke always laughed when he told that story. If Shirley was sitting beside him she'd cringe.
"Ain't that just like a woman,"he'd say with a big smile on his face.
Shirley would just look down and then excusing herself saying she had to go in the back and count the receipts.Then Burke would want to know if I wanted to play him in a game of darts.
Burke Emery reminded me a the typical fighter who had that atypical lifestyle growing up as a kid. His girlfriend Shirley would sometimes remark that it was no wonder that Burke wound up as a prizefighter or he probably would have been a criminal behind bars. Sometimes the distinction is inseparable.Burke on the other hand thought that his life was sort of common and that Shirley's take on it was an overreaction.
Burke would laugh when he was working his and Shirley's joint,Champs, about tending bar in the old days in Montreal and that every night around closing time fights would break out between the Englishmen and the French.He was fighting pro then but supplemented his income slinging drinks.Burke being a Canadian with a fondness towards the Brits would always jump into the frays backing the Union Jack. But Burke held no real grudges with the "frogs" which he liked to call them. He just thought barroom fights were fun.
Then he got an idea.Why not charge admission to the non participants who wanted to see blood but not shed any of their own?So at closing time the contestants understood that the doors would be locked and any viewers would have to cough up a coupe of bucks to see the fisticuffs. At the end of the week the proceeds would be divvied up between the battlers and everyone would go home with a good deal of pocket money.
Burke always laughed when he told that story. If Shirley was sitting beside him she'd cringe.
"Ain't that just like a woman,"he'd say with a big smile on his face.
Shirley would just look down and then excusing herself saying she had to go in the back and count the receipts.Then Burke would want to know if I wanted to play him in a game of darts.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Roger: Do you have an inside source in regard to Tyson's prison experience ?
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dagosd2000
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dagosd2000
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Two Thumbs Up (Your Ass)
I got this Roku device and I admit when it comes to all this technology I'm pretty much a dummy.But I've been using this gizmo and now I'm finding these "free" movie channels. Like anything else,you get something for free and it's usually something nobody else wants.So I'm scrolling through some of these "free" movies and I can tell they're real stinkers-I guess.I come to one titled "Mob Wars" so I click on. I can see it's in color and the picture is grainy. What the hell,I'll give it a chance.Then pop up the credits in front of this skyline of New York City and who do you think gets top billing?That famous movie star and former fighter,Jake La Motta.So I put down the remote.
Now I ain't gonna do my Siskel and Ebert imitation because I ain't good doing that sort of thing so I'll let you have it up front. Jake La Motta was a better fighter than he was an actor. He couldn't even act when he went into the tank against Billy fox..
The story in a nutshell has to to do with the cops closing in on this cocaine operation run by the Mob and Jake is cast as the Don.Well,he sure looks the part.The flick was made in 1989 and Jake was still holding up pretty good. This was eight years after Raging Bull so I figure the producers are riding on the coattails of that movie thinking La Motta's name is going to sell out movie theaters.I sure don't remember it being in the movie houses.Maybe it wasn't and now it's being released as a throw away to these "free" stations.
Well,like i said,Jake sure looks the part but when his lines are comprised of more than one sentence he ain't gonna make you forget Olivier.When he speaks more than a few words you think he's going to have a heart attack.
I endured it to the end only because I wanted to see if La Motta was going to be rushed to the ER.I don't think I'll click onto "Mob Wars" again. So I'll give you my rating of this movie.You can catch it in the title of this piece.
Jake "The Don" La Motta
I got this Roku device and I admit when it comes to all this technology I'm pretty much a dummy.But I've been using this gizmo and now I'm finding these "free" movie channels. Like anything else,you get something for free and it's usually something nobody else wants.So I'm scrolling through some of these "free" movies and I can tell they're real stinkers-I guess.I come to one titled "Mob Wars" so I click on. I can see it's in color and the picture is grainy. What the hell,I'll give it a chance.Then pop up the credits in front of this skyline of New York City and who do you think gets top billing?That famous movie star and former fighter,Jake La Motta.So I put down the remote.
Now I ain't gonna do my Siskel and Ebert imitation because I ain't good doing that sort of thing so I'll let you have it up front. Jake La Motta was a better fighter than he was an actor. He couldn't even act when he went into the tank against Billy fox..
The story in a nutshell has to to do with the cops closing in on this cocaine operation run by the Mob and Jake is cast as the Don.Well,he sure looks the part.The flick was made in 1989 and Jake was still holding up pretty good. This was eight years after Raging Bull so I figure the producers are riding on the coattails of that movie thinking La Motta's name is going to sell out movie theaters.I sure don't remember it being in the movie houses.Maybe it wasn't and now it's being released as a throw away to these "free" stations.
Well,like i said,Jake sure looks the part but when his lines are comprised of more than one sentence he ain't gonna make you forget Olivier.When he speaks more than a few words you think he's going to have a heart attack.
I endured it to the end only because I wanted to see if La Motta was going to be rushed to the ER.I don't think I'll click onto "Mob Wars" again. So I'll give you my rating of this movie.You can catch it in the title of this piece.
Jake "The Don" La Motta
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dagosd2000
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
With the world getting a kick in the teeth with this Covid virus the devil must be having the time of his life. So I invite you to watch this.It was a TV program back more than 70 years ago. The name of the show is "Chopsticks".These are not kids sitting at their pianos but angels who alighted from heaven to bring a smile and perhaps a tear to our faces. 
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
I remember Wallace Matthews writing that Tyson was placed in solitary for his own protection at some point; it seems that the staff got wind of a plot to attack Tyson by a group of inmates. At the time I wasn't sure if the story was true, but now I know it was.
there are also stories about Tommy Morrison doing some very hard time.
there are also stories about Tommy Morrison doing some very hard time.
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dagosd2000
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Goose,Thanks for that. I used to work at the jails in San Diego county for 10 years. I was a maintenance man and then later when I got my teaching degree as a teacher.I learned the more famous a prisoner is,that if he was a big name celebrity on the outside(sports star,entertainer,politician)they become mark for the prison population.The majority of prisoners are"institutionalized",,career criminals.They've spent the most part of their lives behind bars. Repeat offenders.When someone like a Tyson gets locked up he's in danger because his fellow inmates look at him as having it made on the outside.Now he's a part of the common crowd and is perceived as being a fool.He won't get any favors.No privileges.No respect. They want to strike fear and suffering into him that he never felt when he was living the high life.Mike Tyson fit the bill.goose 5 wrote: ↑05 Feb 2021, 20:24 I remember Wallace Matthews writing that Tyson was placed in solitary for his own protection at some point; it seems that the staff got wind of a plot to attack Tyson by a group of inmates. At the time I wasn't sure if the story was true, but now I know it was.
there are also stories about Tommy Morrison doing some very hard time.
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dagosd2000
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Wrong Number
One of my first assignments when I got my credential to teach was at Juvenile Hall.Henry Brown,who I had played football with on that all black Ghetto Messenger team(I was the only vanilla face)pulled a few strings with the principal,Rocky Nobile,and I landed the job.I figured working with delinquent kids would be a good experience.In a way it was,but classroom discipline is always the main concern especially for a beginning teacher.But there were no discipline problems working in jail.if a kid screwed up he was confined to his room for up to 72 hours with no arguments. What little freedom provided in jail is cherished.
I was like a what they called a "floater".Each day they moved me around to teach in a different unit. The kids were separated by age and degree of crime.The easiest unit was the one that housed the illegal alien kids. They were mostly from Mexico and had been apprehended and tossed into the Hall until they were deported.In ways the had it better than living in Mexico.3 squares a day. Hot showers and a room and a bed to themselves.The oldest group of kids weren't so bad either.They were between 16 and 18 years old. They were the ones the younger kids unfortunately wanted to be like. We had to separate those punks from their "heroes."
My first day with that older group I ran into a black kid I had coached in high school.I'll call him "Mike" because of personal reasons.This kid wound up being selected an all state running back at Point Loma High School where I was part of the staff.I was a line coach so I wasn't hands on with Mike,but we sure were good friends.
For some reason ,no one had ever figured out, Mike became a gangster after graduating from school. He had scholarship offers from just about every big time college in the country.Free rides in football,.track (where he was the state record holder in the 440 dash),and basketball( where he led the county in scoring). He also took up boxing briefly as an amateur and was sensational.He never lost a fight.Then he dropped off a cliff. He was arrested for holding up a 7/11 store with a gun in Logan Heights.Right away he was front page news in the local papers. Everyone seemed to go to bat for him including myself when his trial came up.Well,he got a break from the judge who put him on probation. His "name" kept him from serving time.Then within a month he was nabbed again.This time it was a gangland hit.A 1st degree murder rap. Now he was in The Hall waiting to be charged as an adult in Superior Court.
I got to roam around a lot at Juvenuile Hall and one day I cornered Mike about what happened.
"I got to working for Quintero,"he told me in the dayroom."He wanted me to whack this guy for 10 thousand dollars.I never saw any money"
"So what's next?"I asked him.
"Quintero told me before it happened not to worry and if anything went wrong he'd get me the best lawyers."
"Your trial is next week."
"I know.I can't get ahold of him or anyone.The number I have they say is disconnected,a wrong number."
"You'll wind up with a court appointed attorney."
"I have one now,"said Mike looking downcast."The guy is doing nothing for me."
I didn't want to tell Mike that he was being left out to dry but that's the way it looked.Then I shifted gears.
"Tell me.What made you go this way?You had it made.Then you screwed up and got a break.And now you're looking at a 1st degree murder rap."
"Coach,it's like this.I was always scared.I couldn't deal with success.I knew that it would all come to an end one day."
Mike got his trial.He was tried as an adult.The drug kingpin never got him a lawyer.Mike got life.He's doing his time in San Quentin.This was 40 years ago.I guess that wrong number he kept dialing was like metaphor for himself.
Juvenile Hall.San Diego
One of my first assignments when I got my credential to teach was at Juvenile Hall.Henry Brown,who I had played football with on that all black Ghetto Messenger team(I was the only vanilla face)pulled a few strings with the principal,Rocky Nobile,and I landed the job.I figured working with delinquent kids would be a good experience.In a way it was,but classroom discipline is always the main concern especially for a beginning teacher.But there were no discipline problems working in jail.if a kid screwed up he was confined to his room for up to 72 hours with no arguments. What little freedom provided in jail is cherished.
I was like a what they called a "floater".Each day they moved me around to teach in a different unit. The kids were separated by age and degree of crime.The easiest unit was the one that housed the illegal alien kids. They were mostly from Mexico and had been apprehended and tossed into the Hall until they were deported.In ways the had it better than living in Mexico.3 squares a day. Hot showers and a room and a bed to themselves.The oldest group of kids weren't so bad either.They were between 16 and 18 years old. They were the ones the younger kids unfortunately wanted to be like. We had to separate those punks from their "heroes."
My first day with that older group I ran into a black kid I had coached in high school.I'll call him "Mike" because of personal reasons.This kid wound up being selected an all state running back at Point Loma High School where I was part of the staff.I was a line coach so I wasn't hands on with Mike,but we sure were good friends.
For some reason ,no one had ever figured out, Mike became a gangster after graduating from school. He had scholarship offers from just about every big time college in the country.Free rides in football,.track (where he was the state record holder in the 440 dash),and basketball( where he led the county in scoring). He also took up boxing briefly as an amateur and was sensational.He never lost a fight.Then he dropped off a cliff. He was arrested for holding up a 7/11 store with a gun in Logan Heights.Right away he was front page news in the local papers. Everyone seemed to go to bat for him including myself when his trial came up.Well,he got a break from the judge who put him on probation. His "name" kept him from serving time.Then within a month he was nabbed again.This time it was a gangland hit.A 1st degree murder rap. Now he was in The Hall waiting to be charged as an adult in Superior Court.
I got to roam around a lot at Juvenuile Hall and one day I cornered Mike about what happened.
"I got to working for Quintero,"he told me in the dayroom."He wanted me to whack this guy for 10 thousand dollars.I never saw any money"
"So what's next?"I asked him.
"Quintero told me before it happened not to worry and if anything went wrong he'd get me the best lawyers."
"Your trial is next week."
"I know.I can't get ahold of him or anyone.The number I have they say is disconnected,a wrong number."
"You'll wind up with a court appointed attorney."
"I have one now,"said Mike looking downcast."The guy is doing nothing for me."
I didn't want to tell Mike that he was being left out to dry but that's the way it looked.Then I shifted gears.
"Tell me.What made you go this way?You had it made.Then you screwed up and got a break.And now you're looking at a 1st degree murder rap."
"Coach,it's like this.I was always scared.I couldn't deal with success.I knew that it would all come to an end one day."
Mike got his trial.He was tried as an adult.The drug kingpin never got him a lawyer.Mike got life.He's doing his time in San Quentin.This was 40 years ago.I guess that wrong number he kept dialing was like metaphor for himself.
Juvenile Hall.San Diego
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dagosd2000
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
The Man Who Beat Ali
"Well.we'll see how Prince does against this guy tonight,"I said to my grandson Adam as we entered the banquet room of The 4 Points Sheraton.
"Yeah,we'll see what happens,"said Adam as we took our seats.
Adam had been working out at the gym near his house on Convoy Avenue where Prince's father Tiger Small was the boxing instructor.Adam was in the beginners class but there wasn't much difference between what Adam was doing anymore than the other of the groups were doing that had been training longer. it was a mixture of men and women,none with any aspirations of being fighters. Tiger had his son Prince helping out with the different groups. It was all sort of mundane and pedestrian. However,Tiger had his money on his son to one day become if not a champion,a contender. He was on the undercard that night at the 4 Points Sheraton.
"I see there's a kid named Spinks in the main event,"I said to Adam looking at my program.
"Prince said that he was related to a champion,"said Adam.
"He must have meant Leon Spinks."
"Who was Leon Spinks?"asked Adam.
"He beat Muhammad Ali for the heavyweight championship."
I knew Adam had heard of Muhammad Ali. but didn't know much besides the name and that he was the champ once and they called him "The Greatest."
The first bout was about to get off and the ring announcer had the microphone in his hand.
"Ladies and gentlemen.Welcome to The 4 Points Sheraton and another of Bobby D's spectacular events.Tonight we feature in the main event Leon Spinks the third.He's the nephew of former heavyweight champion Leon Spinks.And as an added feature Leon is in the audience tonight and will be signing autographs in the ring and you can pose with a picture with him.We can all thank Bobby D for such an honor."
"You ought to get in the ring and get your picture taken,"I said to Adam.
Just then there was a stir at the door.Leon Spinks had arrived.He was by himself.The crowd applauded and things came to a halt as he found his seat at ringside.The small crowd sat down after Leon took his seat.The bouts got under way.Prince was on the second fight of a five bout card.
Well,the guy that they put in front of Prince that night was a real bum.The bell rang for the start and before you could blink an eye Prince threw a jab followed by a right hand that caught this guy on the shoulder and the did a flop on his backside.20 seconds and it was a done deal.
"Brother,"I said to Adam."That was a joke.How can Prince get anything out of something like that?"
"You want to stick around for the rest?"asked Adam."I want to call Eddie so we can go to the roller rink and meet some girls."
"Don't you want to get in the ring with Leon Spinks?"
"I don't know.I'd rather go to the roller rink with Eddie."
"Well stick around a little."
The next two bouts went the distance.They were both 6 rounders but the action was so slow it seemed like it took forever.
The the announcer came back and introduced Leon Spinks. He climbed through the ropes.He didn't say anything.Just smiled and looked very comfortable. I told Adam to hurry up to the ring and get in there because there was a rush of fans beginning to line up.Adam got in the ring ahead of the others.I had my camera so i positioned myself so I could get a decent shot of the pair. Leon put his arm around Adam who seemed a little unnatural.I took the picture.Adam came back nd sat beside me.
"Well,you can say you had your picture taken with the former champion of the world.There's not many fighters who beat Muhammad Ali.He was one of them."
"Can we go now?"asked Adam.
"You don't want to watch the main event?"
"No.I want to go to the roller rink with Eddie."
"Well.it's up to you."
As we were in the parking lot Adam pulled o my arm.
"Who did you say that fighter was I took the picture with?"
"Leon Spinks.The man that beat Ali."
Adam then got out his cell phone.He called Eddie tell him to wait and that he'd be right over.
Adam with the man who beat Ali
"Well.we'll see how Prince does against this guy tonight,"I said to my grandson Adam as we entered the banquet room of The 4 Points Sheraton.
"Yeah,we'll see what happens,"said Adam as we took our seats.
Adam had been working out at the gym near his house on Convoy Avenue where Prince's father Tiger Small was the boxing instructor.Adam was in the beginners class but there wasn't much difference between what Adam was doing anymore than the other of the groups were doing that had been training longer. it was a mixture of men and women,none with any aspirations of being fighters. Tiger had his son Prince helping out with the different groups. It was all sort of mundane and pedestrian. However,Tiger had his money on his son to one day become if not a champion,a contender. He was on the undercard that night at the 4 Points Sheraton.
"I see there's a kid named Spinks in the main event,"I said to Adam looking at my program.
"Prince said that he was related to a champion,"said Adam.
"He must have meant Leon Spinks."
"Who was Leon Spinks?"asked Adam.
"He beat Muhammad Ali for the heavyweight championship."
I knew Adam had heard of Muhammad Ali. but didn't know much besides the name and that he was the champ once and they called him "The Greatest."
The first bout was about to get off and the ring announcer had the microphone in his hand.
"Ladies and gentlemen.Welcome to The 4 Points Sheraton and another of Bobby D's spectacular events.Tonight we feature in the main event Leon Spinks the third.He's the nephew of former heavyweight champion Leon Spinks.And as an added feature Leon is in the audience tonight and will be signing autographs in the ring and you can pose with a picture with him.We can all thank Bobby D for such an honor."
"You ought to get in the ring and get your picture taken,"I said to Adam.
Just then there was a stir at the door.Leon Spinks had arrived.He was by himself.The crowd applauded and things came to a halt as he found his seat at ringside.The small crowd sat down after Leon took his seat.The bouts got under way.Prince was on the second fight of a five bout card.
Well,the guy that they put in front of Prince that night was a real bum.The bell rang for the start and before you could blink an eye Prince threw a jab followed by a right hand that caught this guy on the shoulder and the did a flop on his backside.20 seconds and it was a done deal.
"Brother,"I said to Adam."That was a joke.How can Prince get anything out of something like that?"
"You want to stick around for the rest?"asked Adam."I want to call Eddie so we can go to the roller rink and meet some girls."
"Don't you want to get in the ring with Leon Spinks?"
"I don't know.I'd rather go to the roller rink with Eddie."
"Well stick around a little."
The next two bouts went the distance.They were both 6 rounders but the action was so slow it seemed like it took forever.
The the announcer came back and introduced Leon Spinks. He climbed through the ropes.He didn't say anything.Just smiled and looked very comfortable. I told Adam to hurry up to the ring and get in there because there was a rush of fans beginning to line up.Adam got in the ring ahead of the others.I had my camera so i positioned myself so I could get a decent shot of the pair. Leon put his arm around Adam who seemed a little unnatural.I took the picture.Adam came back nd sat beside me.
"Well,you can say you had your picture taken with the former champion of the world.There's not many fighters who beat Muhammad Ali.He was one of them."
"Can we go now?"asked Adam.
"You don't want to watch the main event?"
"No.I want to go to the roller rink with Eddie."
"Well.it's up to you."
As we were in the parking lot Adam pulled o my arm.
"Who did you say that fighter was I took the picture with?"
"Leon Spinks.The man that beat Ali."
Adam then got out his cell phone.He called Eddie tell him to wait and that he'd be right over.
Adam with the man who beat Ali
-
dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Mind Over Matter
If you take ten IQ tests the test with with the highest score is your real IQ ,so say the the experts in these things.I sometimes think there's a link with that with fighting. Leon Spinks passed away the other day and I often think that his winning of the championship from Muhammad Ali was his highest IQ effort inside the squared circle.He had no business beating Ali. Seven pro fights under his belt.his most impressive showing up to that time was against Scott Ledoux.Sure,he had an Olympic gold medal sitting atop his mantle,but to beat The Greatest?
That night Leon Spinks outhustled and outfought Ali ,who by the middle rounds knew he couldn't beat this guy,So they have the rematch.Can't have Leon Spinks getting away with something like that. But I thought Leon won again only to have Ali's mystique and immense popularity factor in the scorecards.But after that loss there was to be no rubber match.Ali would retire to immortality.(until he made that unfortunate comeback).However,Spinks would prove he was mortal and come crashing down like a ton of bricks. By the end he was a pathetic figure.it was hard to imagine he had beaten Muhammad Ali,let alone being a heavyweight champion.
But that night he won the big one from the great one he was magnificant.So why did he come crashing down? When we saw him at his best he looked like he'd stay up there for quite a spell. But It's the same old conclusion.He didn't have the toughness between the ears to make him maintain that excellence. He let go of the rope. He couldn't take it but he continued on making himself a ring mockery.
I used to get a kick out of watching that Edward R. Murrow show Person To Person.There's Ed at the typewriter,shirt collar unbuttoned as is the tie,his coat in the backround hanging on the rack. Cigarette smoke swirling, permeating the room.His face deep in thought.What a ham!One time he had on Sugar Ray Robinson. Robinson said that he really didn't like fighting.He was doing it for the money. We've heard that story a thousand times.But what is often left out is Robinson's addendum to that statement.
"I wanted to be the best at something.I wanted to be the best fighter in the world. I knew I would have to work very hard at it and let nothing stand in my way."
Leon Spinks had the tools. So did Ray Robinson. The difference was the mental mettle. Staying up there is the real hard part.Leon Spinks didn't have the drive. Maybe you have to have a compulsion,an ego so enormous that it brinks on insanity to be the best(It's OK to have talent too)But if one can be a Robinson or an Ali people will look at you as a god.
Leon Spinks
If you take ten IQ tests the test with with the highest score is your real IQ ,so say the the experts in these things.I sometimes think there's a link with that with fighting. Leon Spinks passed away the other day and I often think that his winning of the championship from Muhammad Ali was his highest IQ effort inside the squared circle.He had no business beating Ali. Seven pro fights under his belt.his most impressive showing up to that time was against Scott Ledoux.Sure,he had an Olympic gold medal sitting atop his mantle,but to beat The Greatest?
That night Leon Spinks outhustled and outfought Ali ,who by the middle rounds knew he couldn't beat this guy,So they have the rematch.Can't have Leon Spinks getting away with something like that. But I thought Leon won again only to have Ali's mystique and immense popularity factor in the scorecards.But after that loss there was to be no rubber match.Ali would retire to immortality.(until he made that unfortunate comeback).However,Spinks would prove he was mortal and come crashing down like a ton of bricks. By the end he was a pathetic figure.it was hard to imagine he had beaten Muhammad Ali,let alone being a heavyweight champion.
But that night he won the big one from the great one he was magnificant.So why did he come crashing down? When we saw him at his best he looked like he'd stay up there for quite a spell. But It's the same old conclusion.He didn't have the toughness between the ears to make him maintain that excellence. He let go of the rope. He couldn't take it but he continued on making himself a ring mockery.
I used to get a kick out of watching that Edward R. Murrow show Person To Person.There's Ed at the typewriter,shirt collar unbuttoned as is the tie,his coat in the backround hanging on the rack. Cigarette smoke swirling, permeating the room.His face deep in thought.What a ham!One time he had on Sugar Ray Robinson. Robinson said that he really didn't like fighting.He was doing it for the money. We've heard that story a thousand times.But what is often left out is Robinson's addendum to that statement.
"I wanted to be the best at something.I wanted to be the best fighter in the world. I knew I would have to work very hard at it and let nothing stand in my way."
Leon Spinks had the tools. So did Ray Robinson. The difference was the mental mettle. Staying up there is the real hard part.Leon Spinks didn't have the drive. Maybe you have to have a compulsion,an ego so enormous that it brinks on insanity to be the best(It's OK to have talent too)But if one can be a Robinson or an Ali people will look at you as a god.
Leon Spinks
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Brilliant post as alwaysdagosd2000 wrote: ↑08 Feb 2021, 12:11 Mind Over Matter
If you take ten IQ tests the test with with the highest score is your real IQ ,so say the the experts in these things.I sometimes think there's a link with that with fighting. Leon Spinks passed away the other day and I often think that his winning of the championship from Muhammad Ali was his highest IQ effort inside the squared circle.He had no business beating Ali. Seven pro fights under his belt.his most impressive showing up to that time was against Scott Ledoux.Sure,he had an Olympic gold medal sitting atop his mantle,but to beat The Greatest?
That night Leon Spinks outhustled and outfought Ali ,who by the middle rounds knew he couldn't beat this guy,So they have the rematch.Can't have Leon Spinks getting away with something like that. But I thought Leon won again only to have Ali's mystique and immense popularity factor in the scorecards.But after that loss there was to be no rubber match.Ali would retire to immortality.(until he made that unfortunate comeback).However,Spinks would prove he was mortal and come crashing down like a ton of bricks. By the end he was a pathetic figure.it was hard to imagine he had beaten Muhammad Ali,let alone being a heavyweight champion.
But that night he won the big one from the great one he was magnificant.So why did he come crashing down? When we saw him at his best he looked like he'd stay up there for quite a spell. But It's the same old conclusion.He didn't have the toughness between the ears to make him maintain that excellence. He let go of the rope. He couldn't take it but he continued on making himself a ring mockery.
I used to get a kick out of watching that Edward R. Murrow show Person To Person.There's Ed at the typewriter,shirt collar unbuttoned as is the tie,his coat in the backround hanging on the rack. Cigarette smoke swirling, permeating the room.His face deep in thought.What a ham!One time he had on Sugar Ray Robinson. Robinson said that he really didn't like fighting.He was doing it for the money. We've heard that story a thousand times.But what is often left out is Robinson's addendum to that statement.
"I wanted to be the best at something.I wanted to be the best fighter in the world. I knew I would have to work very hard at it and let nothing stand in my way."
Leon Spinks had the tools. So did Ray Robinson. The difference was the mental mettle. Staying up there is the real hard part.Leon Spinks didn't have the drive. Maybe you have to have a compulsion,an ego so enormous that it brinks on insanity to be the best(It's OK to have talent too)But if one can be a Robinson or an Ali people will look at you as a god.
Leon Spinks
-
dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
-
dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
A Crowd Chaser Of A Movie
I think they still have them -"the crowd chaser".That's a fight after the main event that's usually a four rounder that goes on while most of the crowd filters out the doors digesting about what happened in the main event.It's funny in a way. You see the two boys flailing away at each other while no one is paying attention except maybe some family and friends.
I was watching a movie the other night on television that I hadn't seen seen since I was a kid,The Joe louis Story.It was released in 1953. I couldn't remember much of it except that Coley Wallace played the part of Joe Louis.I remember that because though Wallace was a professional fighter ,as an amateur he had decisioned Rocky Marciano in the amateurs. Wallace would always be noted for that.
The movie was released after Louis had lost to Marciano.The story begins with an old time scribe and friend of Louis' who wants to do the write up of the fight even though he wasn't in the arena,. He had seen it on the television sitting in a bar nursing a whiskey and soda. The cub reporter who wants to do the story was told by this old timer to forget it.He could more accurately tell the the "whole story" from beginning to end.So now the tale flashes back in time when Louis starts out his fighting career-going to the gym instead of going to his music lessons trading his violin for a pair of Everlasts.
the movie is filmed in black and white. It's a low budget film.Wallace plays Louis.A unknown actress Hilda Simms plays Louis' wife Marva. James Edwards ,one of the good early black character actors who didn't play those Stepin Fetchit parts,was cast as Jack Blackburn.Mannie Seamon was the technical advisor.He took over being Louis' main trainer after Jack Blackburn passed away. Seamon had no acting part in the film.
The Joe Louis Story is a forgettable movie for various reasons. Even though Sterling Silliphant,a very good screenwriter was hired for the job, the script is about as tepid as Joey Maxim's punching power.The characters are stiff cardboard cutouts lacking any emotion. The dialogue is sparse and at times your asking to yourself,"Why isn't anyone saying anything?"It's like everything was read off a teleprompter.Wallace is Ok.He's about the only one who shows he's got blood running through his veins. He even resembles Louis physically. They even show him at the end of Louis' career when Joe was sporting a mustache. The resemblance is remarkable. (Wallace has a brief scene in Raging Bull when he plays the part of Joe Louis, mustache and all, in the ring with Jake LaMotta after he wins the title from Cerdan.He' looks just like Louis)The Hollywood story line strays from the actualities.Blackburn's battle with alcohol is omitted.Louis' affairs never are never unveiled. How Mike Jacobs took liberties with Louis' money is never revealed. If there is a major theme it's Louis' fights with Max Schmeling.But they make too much of a big deal with Max being a German ,thus a Hitlerite which he wasn't.It's sad to say but the only worthwhile film footage is Louis' replays of his fights with Schmeling,Carnera,Braddock,etal.But that's the way they waned to make the movie back in 1953.It stands alongside Ozzie and Harriet.
With this said The Joe Louis Story is a crowd chaser of a movie.Joe Louis,one the most significant figures of the 20th century,not only a great fighter but leaving an important imprint bringing blacks and whites together on some friendly ground,to get a send off that wasn't worth the the price of a box of Milk Duds inside the lobby at the candy counter.
Joe Louis
I think they still have them -"the crowd chaser".That's a fight after the main event that's usually a four rounder that goes on while most of the crowd filters out the doors digesting about what happened in the main event.It's funny in a way. You see the two boys flailing away at each other while no one is paying attention except maybe some family and friends.
I was watching a movie the other night on television that I hadn't seen seen since I was a kid,The Joe louis Story.It was released in 1953. I couldn't remember much of it except that Coley Wallace played the part of Joe Louis.I remember that because though Wallace was a professional fighter ,as an amateur he had decisioned Rocky Marciano in the amateurs. Wallace would always be noted for that.
The movie was released after Louis had lost to Marciano.The story begins with an old time scribe and friend of Louis' who wants to do the write up of the fight even though he wasn't in the arena,. He had seen it on the television sitting in a bar nursing a whiskey and soda. The cub reporter who wants to do the story was told by this old timer to forget it.He could more accurately tell the the "whole story" from beginning to end.So now the tale flashes back in time when Louis starts out his fighting career-going to the gym instead of going to his music lessons trading his violin for a pair of Everlasts.
the movie is filmed in black and white. It's a low budget film.Wallace plays Louis.A unknown actress Hilda Simms plays Louis' wife Marva. James Edwards ,one of the good early black character actors who didn't play those Stepin Fetchit parts,was cast as Jack Blackburn.Mannie Seamon was the technical advisor.He took over being Louis' main trainer after Jack Blackburn passed away. Seamon had no acting part in the film.
The Joe Louis Story is a forgettable movie for various reasons. Even though Sterling Silliphant,a very good screenwriter was hired for the job, the script is about as tepid as Joey Maxim's punching power.The characters are stiff cardboard cutouts lacking any emotion. The dialogue is sparse and at times your asking to yourself,"Why isn't anyone saying anything?"It's like everything was read off a teleprompter.Wallace is Ok.He's about the only one who shows he's got blood running through his veins. He even resembles Louis physically. They even show him at the end of Louis' career when Joe was sporting a mustache. The resemblance is remarkable. (Wallace has a brief scene in Raging Bull when he plays the part of Joe Louis, mustache and all, in the ring with Jake LaMotta after he wins the title from Cerdan.He' looks just like Louis)The Hollywood story line strays from the actualities.Blackburn's battle with alcohol is omitted.Louis' affairs never are never unveiled. How Mike Jacobs took liberties with Louis' money is never revealed. If there is a major theme it's Louis' fights with Max Schmeling.But they make too much of a big deal with Max being a German ,thus a Hitlerite which he wasn't.It's sad to say but the only worthwhile film footage is Louis' replays of his fights with Schmeling,Carnera,Braddock,etal.But that's the way they waned to make the movie back in 1953.It stands alongside Ozzie and Harriet.
With this said The Joe Louis Story is a crowd chaser of a movie.Joe Louis,one the most significant figures of the 20th century,not only a great fighter but leaving an important imprint bringing blacks and whites together on some friendly ground,to get a send off that wasn't worth the the price of a box of Milk Duds inside the lobby at the candy counter.
Joe Louis
-
dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
It Was Just The Way He Was
When Joe Louis was on his way up the ladder to the heavyweight crown everyone was bracing themselves.at least white America was. Louis was the best untli Schmeling had stuck out his foot and tripped him,but there was no doubt that Joe Louis would eventually gain the title.Mike Jacobs could see it all unfolding so he took over Louis' future.
Jimmy Braddock was the champ but everyone knew that wouldn't last for long. Schmeling pushed hard for a signing with Braddock(I mean Max had beaten Louis a good one.Didn't I deserve the shot?) and there was something signed but legal mumbo jumbo nixed the deal and it was Louis who got the title shot.
Well ,Louis (after Jimmy caught him off guard in round one and had the Brown Bomber do a Jack In the Box spring up to his feet after the flash knockdown)finally beat up The Cinderella Man to the point where he took a comfortable seat on the canvas in the 8th frame. Thus we had the second black heavyweight champion of the world.
The first black champ was Jack Johnson and he was a handful. He was supposed to act like Gans or Langford but white folks thought he needed a course in proper etiquette,or maybe a good lynching.But Lil' Arthur would have none of that. He did as he pleased and didn't check in with Gentleman Jim before he made a move. On top of that there was no fighter,especially a white one,who could wipe that smile off Jack's face. It wasn't until that Mann Act beef made him flee the country and he went to Europe and got fat eating French food and drinking their wine that he finally became a roly poly pie. He tried to work a deal with the government to get back to the States but he got as far as Cuba where a big plowboy broke him down in a racetrack.America had had enough of this guy.Now go to jail and write your autobiography.
When Joe Louis became number one heavy America was holding its breath.Was Joe going to be another Jack?Oh,Louis' people were telling him how to behave.If you're going to jump the fence with a white woman keep out of sight. Never gloat in the ring after a win especially if you victim is prone to getting sunburned. And for God's sake don't let Jack Johnson in your training camp.
Joe Louis held the title for 12 years.Him and FDR were the faces of America during the Great Depression and World War II. Of course as we started getting more than even with the Japs and the Germans men like Ike and MacArthur became familiar faces.But Joe Louis gave no cause for any white alarm .What he said at that Garden rally before he enlisted in the Army that "we were on God's side" we let out the air. No more breath holding.
We all remember the first Conn fight. Billy was outmaneuvering and outsmarting the champ and it looked like the Luck of The Irish was with Billy. But Billy thought he could KO Louis though his corner told him to play it safe.But Conn being Irish and "dumb" disobeyed his instructions and we all know what happened.
But the thing that stands out for me in that fight ,and also makes my eyes water, is somewhere in the middle rounds when the crowd is sensing the upset ,Conn slipped back into the ropes and for a moment got tangled in the strands. Joe had him.There was Conn unable to do anything but to think that Louis was going to swarm all over him.But Joe saw what dire straits Conn was in and stepped back letting Billy free himself. You can listen to the Garden crowd applaud Joe's grace. Here's Louis losing and needing to come up with something and now he has Conn helpless and he lets him go free.
Please excuse me while I do some mental clapping and wipe a tear from my eye.
Joe Louis
When Joe Louis was on his way up the ladder to the heavyweight crown everyone was bracing themselves.at least white America was. Louis was the best untli Schmeling had stuck out his foot and tripped him,but there was no doubt that Joe Louis would eventually gain the title.Mike Jacobs could see it all unfolding so he took over Louis' future.
Jimmy Braddock was the champ but everyone knew that wouldn't last for long. Schmeling pushed hard for a signing with Braddock(I mean Max had beaten Louis a good one.Didn't I deserve the shot?) and there was something signed but legal mumbo jumbo nixed the deal and it was Louis who got the title shot.
Well ,Louis (after Jimmy caught him off guard in round one and had the Brown Bomber do a Jack In the Box spring up to his feet after the flash knockdown)finally beat up The Cinderella Man to the point where he took a comfortable seat on the canvas in the 8th frame. Thus we had the second black heavyweight champion of the world.
The first black champ was Jack Johnson and he was a handful. He was supposed to act like Gans or Langford but white folks thought he needed a course in proper etiquette,or maybe a good lynching.But Lil' Arthur would have none of that. He did as he pleased and didn't check in with Gentleman Jim before he made a move. On top of that there was no fighter,especially a white one,who could wipe that smile off Jack's face. It wasn't until that Mann Act beef made him flee the country and he went to Europe and got fat eating French food and drinking their wine that he finally became a roly poly pie. He tried to work a deal with the government to get back to the States but he got as far as Cuba where a big plowboy broke him down in a racetrack.America had had enough of this guy.Now go to jail and write your autobiography.
When Joe Louis became number one heavy America was holding its breath.Was Joe going to be another Jack?Oh,Louis' people were telling him how to behave.If you're going to jump the fence with a white woman keep out of sight. Never gloat in the ring after a win especially if you victim is prone to getting sunburned. And for God's sake don't let Jack Johnson in your training camp.
Joe Louis held the title for 12 years.Him and FDR were the faces of America during the Great Depression and World War II. Of course as we started getting more than even with the Japs and the Germans men like Ike and MacArthur became familiar faces.But Joe Louis gave no cause for any white alarm .What he said at that Garden rally before he enlisted in the Army that "we were on God's side" we let out the air. No more breath holding.
We all remember the first Conn fight. Billy was outmaneuvering and outsmarting the champ and it looked like the Luck of The Irish was with Billy. But Billy thought he could KO Louis though his corner told him to play it safe.But Conn being Irish and "dumb" disobeyed his instructions and we all know what happened.
But the thing that stands out for me in that fight ,and also makes my eyes water, is somewhere in the middle rounds when the crowd is sensing the upset ,Conn slipped back into the ropes and for a moment got tangled in the strands. Joe had him.There was Conn unable to do anything but to think that Louis was going to swarm all over him.But Joe saw what dire straits Conn was in and stepped back letting Billy free himself. You can listen to the Garden crowd applaud Joe's grace. Here's Louis losing and needing to come up with something and now he has Conn helpless and he lets him go free.
Please excuse me while I do some mental clapping and wipe a tear from my eye.
Joe Louis
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
The Price Of A Toenail.
I didn't read all of it but did Tom Brady really throw the Lombardi Trophy he won in the Super Bowl in the river?If he did I got a laugh out of it. Why do you think he did that?Must not mean that much to him.At least the trophy didn't.What it represented was the value.Not the trophy itself.
Babe Ruth could never understand what all the fuss was about people wanting to collect all this sports memorabilia. His autograph was just his signature on something like a ball. If he had clipped his toenails would that have been worth more than his ink on a piece of paper. At least if you had some of his toenails you'd have the DNA of The Bambino. But try selling the toenails on Ebay. You'd get more money for the ball.
That interview years ago with Ed Bradley on 60 Minutes with Muhammad Ali.Bradley wanted to know where all of Ali's trophies,medals, and belts,etc. were.
"They're in the barn under a tarp,"replied the champ.
I wish Bradley would have asked him "Why?"but he stopped there. Shame on you Ed.That was the real story.
I've seen people line up and stand in line for hours wanting to get an autograph from some sports star. In this day and age it's not for free. They say Joe DiMaggio made more money signing things than he ever made playing baseball. I knew he signed this deal with some sports memorabilia huckster for his signature on a few hundred bats. In 6 hours signing away he made more dough than playing all his career with the Yankees.
A friend of mine ,who was very ill ,used to be a jazz musician back in the day.He had an autographed picture of Charlie Parker when he was playing in some club back east. Parker dropped by to take in a set. Parker liked the way he played and gave him the signed picture. Well, my friend needed some dough to help pay for an operation .He asked me if I thought I could put the picture on Ebay and get some money for it. I said I would give it a try.Well, I put it up for bid and within five minutes some dude in England offered me 5 grand for the picture. I sent him the picture.He was ecstatic. But I got to thinking.The picture was made out to my friend with his name on it. What was this buyer going to do? Cut off my friend's name from the top?
I've got a few autographs from some notable fighters but I've never paid for any of them.I told you about those two books I found in that used book store.One was Jack Dempsey's bio. The other was Henry Armstrong's. I shelled out a sawbuck for the pair. The books were not such a hot read but for ten bucks it was worth it. Besides I got those signatures inside the front leaves.
But what's all the fuss with these autograph hounds?Some are in it to make a profit. But most are collectors. It's a vicarious way of living through the athlete. They believe they have a part of him. A bond has been formed.Something personal is derived.
i wish Ed Bradley would have pursued his questioning of Ali about why his awards were under a tarp covered with pigeon poop in the barn.I guess the barn could burn down but that wouldn't erase Ali's ring accomplishments from our memories.I guess if that had happened he could have always clipped his toenails and made an extra buck or two.
Muhammad Ali
I didn't read all of it but did Tom Brady really throw the Lombardi Trophy he won in the Super Bowl in the river?If he did I got a laugh out of it. Why do you think he did that?Must not mean that much to him.At least the trophy didn't.What it represented was the value.Not the trophy itself.
Babe Ruth could never understand what all the fuss was about people wanting to collect all this sports memorabilia. His autograph was just his signature on something like a ball. If he had clipped his toenails would that have been worth more than his ink on a piece of paper. At least if you had some of his toenails you'd have the DNA of The Bambino. But try selling the toenails on Ebay. You'd get more money for the ball.
That interview years ago with Ed Bradley on 60 Minutes with Muhammad Ali.Bradley wanted to know where all of Ali's trophies,medals, and belts,etc. were.
"They're in the barn under a tarp,"replied the champ.
I wish Bradley would have asked him "Why?"but he stopped there. Shame on you Ed.That was the real story.
I've seen people line up and stand in line for hours wanting to get an autograph from some sports star. In this day and age it's not for free. They say Joe DiMaggio made more money signing things than he ever made playing baseball. I knew he signed this deal with some sports memorabilia huckster for his signature on a few hundred bats. In 6 hours signing away he made more dough than playing all his career with the Yankees.
A friend of mine ,who was very ill ,used to be a jazz musician back in the day.He had an autographed picture of Charlie Parker when he was playing in some club back east. Parker dropped by to take in a set. Parker liked the way he played and gave him the signed picture. Well, my friend needed some dough to help pay for an operation .He asked me if I thought I could put the picture on Ebay and get some money for it. I said I would give it a try.Well, I put it up for bid and within five minutes some dude in England offered me 5 grand for the picture. I sent him the picture.He was ecstatic. But I got to thinking.The picture was made out to my friend with his name on it. What was this buyer going to do? Cut off my friend's name from the top?
I've got a few autographs from some notable fighters but I've never paid for any of them.I told you about those two books I found in that used book store.One was Jack Dempsey's bio. The other was Henry Armstrong's. I shelled out a sawbuck for the pair. The books were not such a hot read but for ten bucks it was worth it. Besides I got those signatures inside the front leaves.
But what's all the fuss with these autograph hounds?Some are in it to make a profit. But most are collectors. It's a vicarious way of living through the athlete. They believe they have a part of him. A bond has been formed.Something personal is derived.
i wish Ed Bradley would have pursued his questioning of Ali about why his awards were under a tarp covered with pigeon poop in the barn.I guess the barn could burn down but that wouldn't erase Ali's ring accomplishments from our memories.I guess if that had happened he could have always clipped his toenails and made an extra buck or two.
Muhammad Ali
-
dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Champion
So yesterday I mentioned about Tom Brady,Babe Ruth,and Muhammad Ali feeling indifferent,even mocking,the awards and symbols of their accomplishments.You could make a case and say that those three fellas were the best at their particular sport.Brady tossing his Lombardi Trophy in the Charles River.The Babe scratching his head about why they'd wait in line for his inking his name on a baseball.And then Ali telling Ed Bradley if he waned to see all the title belts he'd have to go into the barn and look under the tarp that covered all those accolades. Better bring a flashlight.The logic was simple enough though the accomplishments were monumental.It was the doing part that was cherished the value.The plaques and ribbons were just symbols. They could get lost or burn in a fire but the effort,the memories,the doing part was what was treasured.Can't burn that in a fire.
I knew this kid who was a fighter awhile back who was under his father's wing.Before he had stepped into the ring for his first 4 rounder his dad was building up to be the next Sugar Ray Robinson. The father had other fighters in his stable but threw all his attention to his son. His son was getting fights but the others were sitting on the sidelines waiting to get in there.They spent a long time twiddling their thumbs.
The father said that he didn't want his son fighting an opponent with a winning record for two years.In fact he didn't want him fighting anyone who even had chalked up one victory.The son as winning but he was never being tested. Then he started to appear in those bars in Tijuana that would stage boxing matches from time to time. There were a slew of bars doing that sort of thing. The Rancho Grande.The Perro Salido.Las Pulgas.They'd clear the floor and set up a ring in the middle and charge admission. They were the worst fights I ever saw.I don't know where they got these guys but they were horrible. I don't know where they trained if they did.I doubt if many of them knew where a boxing gym was.I don't know how they passed a physical. There was talk going around that some of them were HIV positive,had the clap,and suffered from heart murmurs,But they slipped the ring docs a few pesos and these so called commissions went along putting on these circuses.
One day the father called me up and wanted to inform me that his son was going to fight in Tijuana for the featherweight championship. Well,I didn't question him any further because I knew if I had I'd get the a song and dance that would make even Astaire's feet sore.Yeah,I'd go.
The fight was in a bar in a parking lot at the bottom end of 10th Street in the Rio part of town. There was a fair size crowd milling out front. I think it was 4 dollars to get in. There were a bunch of folding chairs set up around the ring. I'd say maybe a couple of hundred paid to get in the door. I saw the dad and his son at ringside.
"There's a lot of prelims before my son gets in there,"said the dad anxiously.
Well there wasn't a program explaining what was going to happen so I took a seat in the corner near the door in case I got ired of waiting around.
"This is a big one.The featherweight championship,. I'm a bit nervous,"said the dad.
"Who's he fighting?"I asked.
"I don' know but my son is ready.I wish I wasn't so nervous."
Well,I waited and waited and waited. Fight after fight of kids that looked like they had never fought before.There were as many girls fighting as the boys. I think they were all amateurs. I waited for this featherweight championship fight to go on but they kept putting in all these kids.I got tired of waiting and left.
The next day I got a call from the kid's father.
"Did you see the fight?"he blared."My son is the featherweight champ."
I didn't want to say I got tired of waiting and left so I lied.
"Sure.Congratulations.I tried to find you guys but I could see you were tied up in the ring."
This was 10 years ago. The kid hasn't fought in almost 2 years . He lost one along the way in Las Vegas after that.It was a crossroads fight.The guy he fought was pretty tough.If the kid could could have got by that guy he could have moved up. That was his only fight outside San Diego and Tijuana. But after that loss he was back fighting in Tijuana.Like I said he's been inactive for going on 2 years.In the meantime I looked up that featherweight fight in the BoxRec records. The fight was for the Northern Baja California featherweight title. The kid's opponent that night had a record of 4 wins against 6 losses.
I wonder if the dad still goes around saying his son is the featherweight champ?
The Rancho Grande Bar in Tijuana.
So yesterday I mentioned about Tom Brady,Babe Ruth,and Muhammad Ali feeling indifferent,even mocking,the awards and symbols of their accomplishments.You could make a case and say that those three fellas were the best at their particular sport.Brady tossing his Lombardi Trophy in the Charles River.The Babe scratching his head about why they'd wait in line for his inking his name on a baseball.And then Ali telling Ed Bradley if he waned to see all the title belts he'd have to go into the barn and look under the tarp that covered all those accolades. Better bring a flashlight.The logic was simple enough though the accomplishments were monumental.It was the doing part that was cherished the value.The plaques and ribbons were just symbols. They could get lost or burn in a fire but the effort,the memories,the doing part was what was treasured.Can't burn that in a fire.
I knew this kid who was a fighter awhile back who was under his father's wing.Before he had stepped into the ring for his first 4 rounder his dad was building up to be the next Sugar Ray Robinson. The father had other fighters in his stable but threw all his attention to his son. His son was getting fights but the others were sitting on the sidelines waiting to get in there.They spent a long time twiddling their thumbs.
The father said that he didn't want his son fighting an opponent with a winning record for two years.In fact he didn't want him fighting anyone who even had chalked up one victory.The son as winning but he was never being tested. Then he started to appear in those bars in Tijuana that would stage boxing matches from time to time. There were a slew of bars doing that sort of thing. The Rancho Grande.The Perro Salido.Las Pulgas.They'd clear the floor and set up a ring in the middle and charge admission. They were the worst fights I ever saw.I don't know where they got these guys but they were horrible. I don't know where they trained if they did.I doubt if many of them knew where a boxing gym was.I don't know how they passed a physical. There was talk going around that some of them were HIV positive,had the clap,and suffered from heart murmurs,But they slipped the ring docs a few pesos and these so called commissions went along putting on these circuses.
One day the father called me up and wanted to inform me that his son was going to fight in Tijuana for the featherweight championship. Well,I didn't question him any further because I knew if I had I'd get the a song and dance that would make even Astaire's feet sore.Yeah,I'd go.
The fight was in a bar in a parking lot at the bottom end of 10th Street in the Rio part of town. There was a fair size crowd milling out front. I think it was 4 dollars to get in. There were a bunch of folding chairs set up around the ring. I'd say maybe a couple of hundred paid to get in the door. I saw the dad and his son at ringside.
"There's a lot of prelims before my son gets in there,"said the dad anxiously.
Well there wasn't a program explaining what was going to happen so I took a seat in the corner near the door in case I got ired of waiting around.
"This is a big one.The featherweight championship,. I'm a bit nervous,"said the dad.
"Who's he fighting?"I asked.
"I don' know but my son is ready.I wish I wasn't so nervous."
Well,I waited and waited and waited. Fight after fight of kids that looked like they had never fought before.There were as many girls fighting as the boys. I think they were all amateurs. I waited for this featherweight championship fight to go on but they kept putting in all these kids.I got tired of waiting and left.
The next day I got a call from the kid's father.
"Did you see the fight?"he blared."My son is the featherweight champ."
I didn't want to say I got tired of waiting and left so I lied.
"Sure.Congratulations.I tried to find you guys but I could see you were tied up in the ring."
This was 10 years ago. The kid hasn't fought in almost 2 years . He lost one along the way in Las Vegas after that.It was a crossroads fight.The guy he fought was pretty tough.If the kid could could have got by that guy he could have moved up. That was his only fight outside San Diego and Tijuana. But after that loss he was back fighting in Tijuana.Like I said he's been inactive for going on 2 years.In the meantime I looked up that featherweight fight in the BoxRec records. The fight was for the Northern Baja California featherweight title. The kid's opponent that night had a record of 4 wins against 6 losses.
I wonder if the dad still goes around saying his son is the featherweight champ?
The Rancho Grande Bar in Tijuana.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
What A Second Effort
When you get on in years and the bones start to creak and the aching muscles take longer for the pain to go away;when you have to dig deep to find the motivation and you're looking for the short cuts to get the task done,well,that's the natural way of things. Like Archie Moore said,"Old fighters start getting lazy."When fighters reach that point it's usually a fast exit.A devastating KO loss. An aging fighter never knows when he enters the ring when he's left his best behind,and sadly it never comes back.There's no magic wand he can wave to catch lightning in a bottle. That fountain of youth is something he can read in those fairy tale books. When fighters hit the wall, it's literally.
This takes me to Muhammad Ali. Read the threads and you'll find the usual detractors. He wasn't THAT great. But those assessments are drawn from the time Ali came back from the 3 year lay off Uncle Sam imposed on him with the help of the numerous boxing commissions.To tell the truth I don't know how he lasted so long.
When you think of the prime Ali you go back before that banishment.Ali was certainly something you had never seen in a heavyweight. He was Willie Pep at 215 pounds.They used to call Jose Legra "The Pocket Ali".Well, Jose tipped the bar at 125.There has never been a heavyweight who moved like Ali when he was trimming the likes of Sonny Liston and Archie Moore. But if you sit back and analyze the quality of opposition before his last pre exille fight with Zora Folley,all those victims(Liston,Moore,Folley,Williams,etal)were not the caliber of fighter Ali faced after his comeback. Liston was not mentally or physically tough as the public thought. Williams was big and and powerful but slow on his feet. Folley was trying to catch a ghost and never had a ghost of a chance against Ali.And Archie Moore?I won't comment.
Then you consider what Ali had left in the gym when he came back to show the world that he still had the goods. He left his legs after the Folley fight.the last fight before he went through all the litigation. An athlete losing his legs? Yet a prizefighter losing his pins? Ali ,whose trademark was floating like a butterfly had his wings clipped. You couldn't tell much from the Quarry fight.Things ended too fast. But when Ali got in there with Bonavena you knew something was wrong.He had lost his legs.He was getting hit ,when before his reflexes-his legs-would get him away from trouble.
Ali and Frazier were set for The Fight Of The Century but it wasn't that in the ring. Ali was against the ropes most of the time trying to catch Joe with something coming in, but Frazier was overwhelming. Some thought that Ali should retire after that fight.But no,he went on.He went on against fighters that were better fighters than Ali faced before they wouldn't let him fight. Young bucks,strong powerful men in their primes-Frazier,Foreman,Norton,Add guys like Quarry,Lyle,Foster,Young,Shavers. These guys were better collectively than what Ali had in front of him before 1967.
Yet there are still the Ali detractors.But their assessments like I said are seen through the comeback prism. Muhammad Ali fought most of his fights after the comeback. I don't know how he did it. It wasn't until Larry Holmes almost killed him that you knew it was over.A lesser man would have sought a comfortable place to fall on the canvas or just stayed in his corner.But leave it to Ali,he had one more fight in him. He was mentally tough.That will,pride,whatever you want to call it was his greatest attribute I guess.Even more than his legs.
Ali
When you get on in years and the bones start to creak and the aching muscles take longer for the pain to go away;when you have to dig deep to find the motivation and you're looking for the short cuts to get the task done,well,that's the natural way of things. Like Archie Moore said,"Old fighters start getting lazy."When fighters reach that point it's usually a fast exit.A devastating KO loss. An aging fighter never knows when he enters the ring when he's left his best behind,and sadly it never comes back.There's no magic wand he can wave to catch lightning in a bottle. That fountain of youth is something he can read in those fairy tale books. When fighters hit the wall, it's literally.
This takes me to Muhammad Ali. Read the threads and you'll find the usual detractors. He wasn't THAT great. But those assessments are drawn from the time Ali came back from the 3 year lay off Uncle Sam imposed on him with the help of the numerous boxing commissions.To tell the truth I don't know how he lasted so long.
When you think of the prime Ali you go back before that banishment.Ali was certainly something you had never seen in a heavyweight. He was Willie Pep at 215 pounds.They used to call Jose Legra "The Pocket Ali".Well, Jose tipped the bar at 125.There has never been a heavyweight who moved like Ali when he was trimming the likes of Sonny Liston and Archie Moore. But if you sit back and analyze the quality of opposition before his last pre exille fight with Zora Folley,all those victims(Liston,Moore,Folley,Williams,etal)were not the caliber of fighter Ali faced after his comeback. Liston was not mentally or physically tough as the public thought. Williams was big and and powerful but slow on his feet. Folley was trying to catch a ghost and never had a ghost of a chance against Ali.And Archie Moore?I won't comment.
Then you consider what Ali had left in the gym when he came back to show the world that he still had the goods. He left his legs after the Folley fight.the last fight before he went through all the litigation. An athlete losing his legs? Yet a prizefighter losing his pins? Ali ,whose trademark was floating like a butterfly had his wings clipped. You couldn't tell much from the Quarry fight.Things ended too fast. But when Ali got in there with Bonavena you knew something was wrong.He had lost his legs.He was getting hit ,when before his reflexes-his legs-would get him away from trouble.
Ali and Frazier were set for The Fight Of The Century but it wasn't that in the ring. Ali was against the ropes most of the time trying to catch Joe with something coming in, but Frazier was overwhelming. Some thought that Ali should retire after that fight.But no,he went on.He went on against fighters that were better fighters than Ali faced before they wouldn't let him fight. Young bucks,strong powerful men in their primes-Frazier,Foreman,Norton,Add guys like Quarry,Lyle,Foster,Young,Shavers. These guys were better collectively than what Ali had in front of him before 1967.
Yet there are still the Ali detractors.But their assessments like I said are seen through the comeback prism. Muhammad Ali fought most of his fights after the comeback. I don't know how he did it. It wasn't until Larry Holmes almost killed him that you knew it was over.A lesser man would have sought a comfortable place to fall on the canvas or just stayed in his corner.But leave it to Ali,he had one more fight in him. He was mentally tough.That will,pride,whatever you want to call it was his greatest attribute I guess.Even more than his legs.
Ali
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
A Drop In The Ocean
I saw Jeff the bartender at Champs next door at the 99 cent store.He was buying some hand cleaner.
"They call this place the 99 cenr store but nothing in here is 99 cents ."he said as I was talking to him in the aisle.
"I know. But it's still cheaper than if you go across the street at the drug store."
"What are you in here to buy?"
"Hand cleaner.Leave me some will ya' "
After buying our hand cleaners we walked together outside to the parking lot.
"When is Champs going to reopen?"I asked him.
"Who knows.I'm tired worrying about it.I'm still collecting unemployment."
We stopped at my car.
"Before you go,"said Jeff."I read what you wrote about Tom Brady throwing the Lombardi trophy in the river.Well he threw it in Tampa Bay.He was on this boat and he was drunk and he was throwing it to someone in another boat and it didn't make it and the trophy fell in the bay."
"So what's the difference?"
"Well,he was throwing it to someone and it dropped in the bay."
"I heard that the person who designed the trophy got upset."
"I didn't hear that,"said Jeff.
"The point was that Brady must not have thought that much of it or he wouldn't have tried such a stunt."
"He was drunk."
"What's the trophy to him?It's his achievements on the field that matter.That was the point I was trying to make."
"And the money."
"Yes,and the money."
Jeff looked in his bag and pulled out a bottle of the hand cleaner.
"Are there any big fights lined up?"
I don't know. I've lost touch with boxing."
"That's why you write about all the history."
"It was better back then.Today this UFC,WWF,whatever they call it has taken over.The young fans don't care about boxing."
"I follow it a little."
"I couldn't tell you who the champs are.But then again I couldn't tell you who the boxing champs are either."
"Maybe if the younger fans would know the history of boxing they'd appreciate it more."
"Are you kidding? So when does anyone read anymore?Besides,boxing isn't violent enough for them."
"What you write is interesting."
"But who else reads it?And if they do they don't get it.It's before their time."
"You've got something."
"Hell,I was a history teacher for 25 years. Those kids couldn't tell you what happened last year."
Jeff began to shake the bottle of hand cleaner.
"Well,I've got to get going ,"he said."By the way how are your hips felling?"
"They're getting along.Thanks."
Jeff started to walk to his car.
"Hey Jeff, I really appreciate that you read what I put on the forum."
"I learn a lot from it."
"I really appreciate that."
"Thanks.It's really nothing."
I saw Jeff the bartender at Champs next door at the 99 cent store.He was buying some hand cleaner.
"They call this place the 99 cenr store but nothing in here is 99 cents ."he said as I was talking to him in the aisle.
"I know. But it's still cheaper than if you go across the street at the drug store."
"What are you in here to buy?"
"Hand cleaner.Leave me some will ya' "
After buying our hand cleaners we walked together outside to the parking lot.
"When is Champs going to reopen?"I asked him.
"Who knows.I'm tired worrying about it.I'm still collecting unemployment."
We stopped at my car.
"Before you go,"said Jeff."I read what you wrote about Tom Brady throwing the Lombardi trophy in the river.Well he threw it in Tampa Bay.He was on this boat and he was drunk and he was throwing it to someone in another boat and it didn't make it and the trophy fell in the bay."
"So what's the difference?"
"Well,he was throwing it to someone and it dropped in the bay."
"I heard that the person who designed the trophy got upset."
"I didn't hear that,"said Jeff.
"The point was that Brady must not have thought that much of it or he wouldn't have tried such a stunt."
"He was drunk."
"What's the trophy to him?It's his achievements on the field that matter.That was the point I was trying to make."
"And the money."
"Yes,and the money."
Jeff looked in his bag and pulled out a bottle of the hand cleaner.
"Are there any big fights lined up?"
I don't know. I've lost touch with boxing."
"That's why you write about all the history."
"It was better back then.Today this UFC,WWF,whatever they call it has taken over.The young fans don't care about boxing."
"I follow it a little."
"I couldn't tell you who the champs are.But then again I couldn't tell you who the boxing champs are either."
"Maybe if the younger fans would know the history of boxing they'd appreciate it more."
"Are you kidding? So when does anyone read anymore?Besides,boxing isn't violent enough for them."
"What you write is interesting."
"But who else reads it?And if they do they don't get it.It's before their time."
"You've got something."
"Hell,I was a history teacher for 25 years. Those kids couldn't tell you what happened last year."
Jeff began to shake the bottle of hand cleaner.
"Well,I've got to get going ,"he said."By the way how are your hips felling?"
"They're getting along.Thanks."
Jeff started to walk to his car.
"Hey Jeff, I really appreciate that you read what I put on the forum."
"I learn a lot from it."
"I really appreciate that."
"Thanks.It's really nothing."
-
dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
When You Have To Think On Your Feet
I heard George Foreman say once that Dick Saddler should have raised the heavy bag a foot or two when he was training for his fight with Ali. Foreman said that his punches were thrown too low to have any effect on Ali. If Saddler had of raised that bag George's shots would have come in higher. Yawn.Well,George had a few more excuses for why he lost that fight.The best one was "I should have gotten up after he knocked me down."
We all saw Foreman go through everyone prior to that fight in Zaire like a hot knife through butter.Peralta was the exception.But Ali saw something in that fight.Greg had got George spent after dropping the 10 round decision.But it was pretty much standard the rest-two rounds and his opponent had had enough.Did Foreman and Saddler really think they were going to get Ali out of there in two rounds?Saddler had Foreman prepare for battle thinking that Ali would fold in two rounds just like the others.Even a neophyte like myself would know that would be too risky a strategy.
First of all,if Ali was still standing to answer the bell for the 3rd round he could possibly make George panicky . Doubt would set in. Now it would be Big George fighting desperately.
Second,how could any fighter believe that he could blow away Muhammad Ali in two rounds even though Ali wasn't the same fighter we all knew prior to the comeback. Even Larry Homes couldn't accomplish such a feat.
Foreman stood a good chance of winning that fight if he hadn't have shot his wad early. Take your time big fella. Do what Eddie Futch had Ken Norton do. Slow the pace down,. Counter Ali's jab with yours. Go to the body FIRST.Ali drops his hands and NOW go to the head. It's a deliberate strategy ,but it sure the hell beats the frustration of trying to put Ali in limbo land in two fast rounds.
I believe Ali threw around a dozen right hand leads in the first round of that fight.Thought he'd catch Foreman with that "anchor punch" like he did against Liston in Maine. Didn't work though. But Ali adapted. He knew that if Foreman kept pressing that he could tire him out by leaning back on the ropes and tying him up. George just kept up the pressure. Couldn't his corner see that the energy was waning from the big fellow?Remember Peralta?
I"ve got to hand it to Ali.He was his own man in the ring.He could see and sense things his corner wasn't aware of. Angelo Dundee was just there for the looks.A blown up PR man. As far as instincts translating into strategy it was all Muhamad knowing what to do and not to do.
As far as Foreman's corner was looking,everyone was befuddled. George needed a guiding light and all he got was gloom. In the eighth round it was lights out. Yeah,George you should have got tp from the floor. But you just would have been knocked down again.
Ali-the thinking man's fighter
I heard George Foreman say once that Dick Saddler should have raised the heavy bag a foot or two when he was training for his fight with Ali. Foreman said that his punches were thrown too low to have any effect on Ali. If Saddler had of raised that bag George's shots would have come in higher. Yawn.Well,George had a few more excuses for why he lost that fight.The best one was "I should have gotten up after he knocked me down."
We all saw Foreman go through everyone prior to that fight in Zaire like a hot knife through butter.Peralta was the exception.But Ali saw something in that fight.Greg had got George spent after dropping the 10 round decision.But it was pretty much standard the rest-two rounds and his opponent had had enough.Did Foreman and Saddler really think they were going to get Ali out of there in two rounds?Saddler had Foreman prepare for battle thinking that Ali would fold in two rounds just like the others.Even a neophyte like myself would know that would be too risky a strategy.
First of all,if Ali was still standing to answer the bell for the 3rd round he could possibly make George panicky . Doubt would set in. Now it would be Big George fighting desperately.
Second,how could any fighter believe that he could blow away Muhammad Ali in two rounds even though Ali wasn't the same fighter we all knew prior to the comeback. Even Larry Homes couldn't accomplish such a feat.
Foreman stood a good chance of winning that fight if he hadn't have shot his wad early. Take your time big fella. Do what Eddie Futch had Ken Norton do. Slow the pace down,. Counter Ali's jab with yours. Go to the body FIRST.Ali drops his hands and NOW go to the head. It's a deliberate strategy ,but it sure the hell beats the frustration of trying to put Ali in limbo land in two fast rounds.
I believe Ali threw around a dozen right hand leads in the first round of that fight.Thought he'd catch Foreman with that "anchor punch" like he did against Liston in Maine. Didn't work though. But Ali adapted. He knew that if Foreman kept pressing that he could tire him out by leaning back on the ropes and tying him up. George just kept up the pressure. Couldn't his corner see that the energy was waning from the big fellow?Remember Peralta?
I"ve got to hand it to Ali.He was his own man in the ring.He could see and sense things his corner wasn't aware of. Angelo Dundee was just there for the looks.A blown up PR man. As far as instincts translating into strategy it was all Muhamad knowing what to do and not to do.
As far as Foreman's corner was looking,everyone was befuddled. George needed a guiding light and all he got was gloom. In the eighth round it was lights out. Yeah,George you should have got tp from the floor. But you just would have been knocked down again.
Ali-the thinking man's fighter
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Looking Backwards
Looking back on sports: they've all evolved into something better. The athletes and the coaches are better today than let's say at the end of the 20th century. And you can throw in all the science-the nutrition,therapies,equipment for added measure. Can't say the same for boxing.Oh,all that fluff I just mentioned about nutrition,therapies,and equipment is a gimme,but the quality athletes and coaches in the world of boxing are counting fingers on the hand.
I think about a legendary football coach like Vince Lombardi who won all those championships for the Green Bay Packers. What he knew about football between his ears the average high school football coach today could give him a run for his money. Oh,Lombardi was a great motivator and if he had lived longer he would have progressed,probably been a great innovator,but what he possessed upstairs about how to play football is ,when compared to todays standards, pedestrian.Ain't that way with boxing. It's not so much a lost art,but a dying one.If you didn't know so much in the first place there's really not that much to lose.
I walk into a gym ,that has on the sign above the door, that inside there's instruction in every form of man to man combat, ,and usually "boxing" is listed last.The trainers(talking boxing here) are usually kids not old enough to grow a decent set of chin whiskers. But we're talking boxing,not barbering. These young fellas seem passionate enough barking out their instructions to their charges but what their yelping is mostly barking at the moon. If some of them boxed they never knew what they were doing inside a ring because their mentors were mentally inept of the proper fundamentals of the sweet science.So what they passed along had more holes in it than a slice of Swiss cheese. Boxing has transformed into that redolence of "cutting the cheese."Instead of a sport that has matured in quality it has aged into the odor of a ripe old Limburger.No wonder boxing is falling behind in popularity to all this mauling that goes on inside the octagon.
But let's face it,boxing isn't as savage as mixed martial arts. Boxing ,when done proper, is very artlike,but fans today don't want to see aesthetics.They want savagery.The irony is they don't know what they're missing.Instead of savoring a glass of Chateau Rothschild they want to guzzle cane alcohol.
If they ever want to get boxing back to the caliber it once was they need to do away with the youth sports,or at least tone down the current ones offered in the rec centers and the schools like baseball,basketball,and football, and replace those mentioned with boxing. Eventually the herd mentality would take over and world would be saturated with a bunch of little Sugar Ray Robinsons.But somehow I don't think that is going to happen.
Chetos boxing gym Tijuana. Where is everybody?
Looking back on sports: they've all evolved into something better. The athletes and the coaches are better today than let's say at the end of the 20th century. And you can throw in all the science-the nutrition,therapies,equipment for added measure. Can't say the same for boxing.Oh,all that fluff I just mentioned about nutrition,therapies,and equipment is a gimme,but the quality athletes and coaches in the world of boxing are counting fingers on the hand.
I think about a legendary football coach like Vince Lombardi who won all those championships for the Green Bay Packers. What he knew about football between his ears the average high school football coach today could give him a run for his money. Oh,Lombardi was a great motivator and if he had lived longer he would have progressed,probably been a great innovator,but what he possessed upstairs about how to play football is ,when compared to todays standards, pedestrian.Ain't that way with boxing. It's not so much a lost art,but a dying one.If you didn't know so much in the first place there's really not that much to lose.
I walk into a gym ,that has on the sign above the door, that inside there's instruction in every form of man to man combat, ,and usually "boxing" is listed last.The trainers(talking boxing here) are usually kids not old enough to grow a decent set of chin whiskers. But we're talking boxing,not barbering. These young fellas seem passionate enough barking out their instructions to their charges but what their yelping is mostly barking at the moon. If some of them boxed they never knew what they were doing inside a ring because their mentors were mentally inept of the proper fundamentals of the sweet science.So what they passed along had more holes in it than a slice of Swiss cheese. Boxing has transformed into that redolence of "cutting the cheese."Instead of a sport that has matured in quality it has aged into the odor of a ripe old Limburger.No wonder boxing is falling behind in popularity to all this mauling that goes on inside the octagon.
But let's face it,boxing isn't as savage as mixed martial arts. Boxing ,when done proper, is very artlike,but fans today don't want to see aesthetics.They want savagery.The irony is they don't know what they're missing.Instead of savoring a glass of Chateau Rothschild they want to guzzle cane alcohol.
If they ever want to get boxing back to the caliber it once was they need to do away with the youth sports,or at least tone down the current ones offered in the rec centers and the schools like baseball,basketball,and football, and replace those mentioned with boxing. Eventually the herd mentality would take over and world would be saturated with a bunch of little Sugar Ray Robinsons.But somehow I don't think that is going to happen.
Chetos boxing gym Tijuana. Where is everybody?