Chris Eubank or Carl Froch ?

[bigjack]

They can say whatever, look at what actually happened in the ring: jack, degale, smith, murray, gutnechkt, jr, chudinov---not one of them even counted despite being hit plenty by this world level monster puncher . poor gut's fate is exactly what happens when a guy lacks that finishing power and instead delivers shot after shot for 12

Froch was the only one above british who he levelled, and that's a fact, regardless of what any opponents say. So it's not like we can say Froch got dropped hard by a guy who was doing it to all sorts of good, sturdy fighters


Btw, GGG actually dropped Murray, twice, and stopped him, and did it to a fresher version. Groves landed the kitchen sink and couldnt drop him once or stop him. I'll go with what actually happened in the ring and not some retrospective interview, fighters do it all the time, like when they say their best opponent is someone they beat and not the guy that schooled them. you even have floyd, whos said his toughest opponent was emmanul augustus (who he totally breezed against and stopped) and not the guys who genuinely pushed him

action > words

Was Murray only down twice against GGG? I could have sworn he was dropped about 4 or 5 times

3 i think

[coneye]

Hard one they both had good chins Eubank stood up to bigger men , but Froch fought the best of his era ,, Benn for me does'nt come into it , i always thought Benn was a great British / European level fighter he would'nt have a bar of the best around at the time , remember in an interview , Toney calling him out and saying Benns not fought anyone good , to which Benn replied yes i have i fought De witt ,, said it all really

The same DeWitt who gave peak Tommy Hearns a tough close fight over the distance, and bashed up former lb4lb rated Matt Hilton the fight before (who was said to have the hardest left hook in boxing)?

[coghaugen11]

The one sided beating Benn gave DeWitt petrified the Americans. Even Barkey struggled to look him in the eye, their hardest man of all.

I love Benn, but that simply isn't true. It also misses the point that around the time Benn beat Dewitt most of the top 10 middleweights weren't American, McCallum and Kalambay being two prime examples.

Barkley looked down every time.

[Deserter]

The one sided beating Benn gave DeWitt petrified the Americans. Even Barkey struggled to look him in the eye, their hardest man of all.

I love Benn, but that simply isn't true. It also misses the point that around the time Benn beat Dewitt most of the top 10 middleweights weren't American, McCallum and Kalambay being two prime examples.

Barkley looked down every time.

That hardly equates to all Americans being petrified. Typical hyperbole on your part.

[mickey1975]

I love Benn, but that simply isn't true. It also misses the point that around the time Benn beat Dewitt most of the top 10 middleweights weren't American, McCallum and Kalambay being two prime examples.

Barkley looked down every time.

That hardly equates to all Americans being petrified. Typical hyperbole on your part.

Iran was also a lot taller than him!

[coghaugen11]

Barkley looked down every time.

That hardly equates to all Americans being petrified. Typical hyperbole on your part.

Iran was also a lot taller than him!

*at the floor


He was their baddest man, their toughest mofo.

[coghaugen11]

Mike Tyson: ‘I don’t think there’s ever been a boxer more eager to score a knockout than Nigel Benn.’

Manny Steward: ‘The Nigel Benn that beat Doug DeWitt would have beaten any middleweight in the world. And I mean any middleweight, then, now or any time.’

[coghaugen11]

If Barkley had lb4lb #3 Nunn (behind Tyson and Chavez, ahead of Whitaker) running away, moonwalking and leaning away almost horizontal with the looseness of the ropes then fornicate knows what he’d of done against Benn. I thought Barkley won that fight on aggression.

[coghaugen11]

KO magazine actually had Nunn lb4lb #1 at the time of the Iran fight. I also scored Duran-Iran a draw for the WBC, the late KD crucial for Duran.

[margaret thatcher]

Yep, you're right, GGG had Murray down 3 times, Groves had him down 0

[mickey1975]

Yep, you're right, GGG had Murray down 3 times, Groves had him down 0

But Murray, you know, the guy actually fighting said Groves was a bigger one punch hitter!

[gilgamesh]

Eubank had the better chin. Froch was the better fighter.

[margaret thatcher]

Yep, you're right, GGG had Murray down 3 times, Groves had him down 0

But Murray, you know, the guy actually fighting said Groves was a bigger one punch hitter!

his body and what actually happened, said otherwise funny that such a massive one hitter could hit him clean over and over and not even drop him once in 12 rounds! let alone put him on his arse 3 times and actually stop him......is there such a thing as being a monster hitter, but not having knockdown power?

Floyd's said emmanuel agusuts was his toughest opponent

actions > words (especially words done several years later)

[THEBUTCH]

Iran Barkley wasn't the "baddest" middleweight in the USA

He was a world class boxer no question, but also beatable. He'd also been out of the ring for a year when he challenged Benn.

Excellent result for Benn, but let's not get carried away. The McClellan win was Benn's finest by a long chalk.

Picking up on an earlier remark questioning Jermain Taylor's power in relation to Benn, I'd say Nigel was the better two fisted puncher without question, but nevertheless, the shot Taylor put Froch down with was as good as anything Benn could muster.

Froch was bowled over by two fight ending blockbusters. With Eubank, it didn't take so much.

I can't envisage Froch cowering to the canvas against a moderate puncher like Watson.

In the first fight, Kessler hit Carl with a blizzard of punches and could barely budge him. I'd rate Kessler much higher than Watson as a boxer and puncher too.

[coghaugen11]

Wow. Barkley was a terrifying guy, even Tyson told Benn he wouldn’t go near him if he was a middleweight.

Watson fought out of this world that night, landing around 350 clean heavy punches from the sixth to eleventh rounds (Eubank did say he quit in the sixth though because he knew Watson was unbeatable) and the pace was 10x that of any Froch or Kessler fight from the opening bell. Watching Eubank-Watson II is a totally different kettle of fish.

Kessler was very basic.

[margaret thatcher]

A fight ending blockbuster----it's nice to label it that way for Carl, but as I've said, which other fighter above Brit level did Groves ever put down hard?

Nigel on the other hand did it multiple times

[coghaugen11]

‘cowering to the canvas’ is a genuinely absurd thing to say after such a sustained beating for 11 rounds at that insane pace. Crazy.

[coghaugen11]

It took Groves no time to have Froch laid out heavy and unrecovered for many rounds.

[Controversial]

Yep, you're right, GGG had Murray down 3 times, Groves had him down 0

But Murray, you know, the guy actually fighting said Groves was a bigger one punch hitter!

Yep, Murray said he was wary of Groves right hand as he hit so hard with it, with GGG he said even his jabs hurt but Groves hit harder with that single punch.

[margaret thatcher]

Yet groves landed tons of them over 12 rounds and couldnt put him down...but murray was down basically as soon as ggg started opening up and then went down 2x more and got stopped. why is it that these monster right hands , with such monster power and regularly connecting, could hardly ever even drop anyone above brit level? not murray, not poor gutneckt, not chudinov, not callum, not eubank, not degale, not jack. ..........as said, froch despite the durability reputation reacted to it worse than most of them did

what makes his monster right different from , say, wilders, which actually levels guys?


maybe murray was so concussed from ggg that he doesnt remember lol. a truly massive puncher makes someone's body betray them and give way, that's when they go down or out.

[Controversial]

Yet groves landed tons of them over 12 rounds and couldnt put him down...

It isn’t that black and white, you can be hurt and not be knocked over, other things come into play, your balance, if you saw the punch coming, if it hit you on the temple and your brain is scrambled for instance. Being knocked out is pretty painless, it’s instant so it’s not uncommon to be more hurt in other fights.

[margaret thatcher]

Yet groves landed tons of them over 12 rounds and couldnt put him down...

It isn’t that black and white, you can be hurt and not be knocked over, other things come into play, your balance, if you saw the punch coming, if it hit you on the temple and your brain is scrambled for instance. Being knocked out is pretty painless, it’s instant so it’s not uncommon to be more hurt in other fights.

well i guess it depends on how one defines 'hurt', because id say a guy totally knocked cold was badly hurt even if he felt nothing

and as ive said, it's not a one off thing.....look at all the fights where groves lands tons of good shots but couldnt even put the guys down....its why poor gutnechkt ended the way he did. im just having trouble buying this stuff about him having monster power......fighters are well known to give funny answers in these 'best of' type of interviews, constantly big upping guys they did better against compared to those they struggled with more.

[mickey1975]

Yep, you're right, GGG had Murray down 3 times, Groves had him down 0

But Murray, you know, the guy actually fighting said Groves was a bigger one punch hitter!

his body and what actually happened, said otherwise funny that such a massive one hitter could hit him clean over and over and not even drop him once in 12 rounds! let alone put him on his arse 3 times and actually stop him......is there such a thing as being a monster hitter, but not having knockdown power?

Floyd's said emmanuel agusuts was his toughest opponent

actions > words (especially words done several years later)

Using that logic, Nardiello hit harder than Benn.

[margaret thatcher]

and if we just ttake a fighters word, emmanual augusts, by widely losing every single round, gave floyd a tougher fight than jose luis castillo

[Controversial]

Yet groves landed tons of them over 12 rounds and couldnt put him down...

It isn’t that black and white, you can be hurt and not be knocked over, other things come into play, your balance, if you saw the punch coming, if it hit you on the temple and your brain is scrambled for instance. Being knocked out is pretty painless, it’s instant so it’s not uncommon to be more hurt in other fights.

well i guess it depends on how one defines 'hurt', because id say a guy totally knocked cold was badly hurt even if he felt nothing

and as ive said, it's not a one off thing.....look at all the fights where groves lands tons of good shots but couldnt even put the guys down....its why poor gutnechkt ended the way he did. im just having trouble buying this stuff about him having monster power......fighters are well known to give funny answers in these 'best of' type of interviews, constantly big upping guys they did better against compared to those they struggled with more.

I think you are looking at it too basic. Knocking someone down doesn't define power. Bruno had a lot of power and didn’t knock anyone world class out, or even down, doesn’t mean he didn’t punch hard. Depends on lots of things and if you are wary of someone’s punch you can prepare yourself or circle away from it to take the sting out.