Classic American West Coast Boxing

[dagosd2000]

Dan Hanley with his dad,Pops


Sweet Home Chicago

[dagosd2000]

Poetry In Motion

Comparing boxing with art, like I did the other day, is not an uncommon simile that you can also substitute with being a metaphor. When you have that Rembrandt of a pugilist wearing his Everlasts art and boxing are one.. Just to see an eye pleaser of a pug in training is like strolling through The Louvre.

My favorites were two Cubans who came along around the same time. Though they came in similar packages they never fought each other. I think it was understood between them.If you read my stuff and then digest the clue that they fled from Mr. Castro's impositions you know I'm referring to Jose Napoles and Luis Rodriguez. I would never miss a chance to see them in the ring. If it was a real fight or a sparring session it was like going to the symphony.

Their styles eventually put some separation between them but to watch them work was a thing of beauty.Jose started off his venture fighting in Mexico very energetic in his movements like Luis but then flattened down to put more power behind his punches.And he did possess that sock. Luis wasn't a big puncher so he was on the balls of his feet more. Although he was always so wound up, he didn't waste any motion out of frustration or being perplexed. He saw everything in front of him. His opponent's slightest tic would send a message to his brain of how to respond.

I saw Rodriguez for a couple of weeks in San Diego as he was winding down for his fight with Rafael Gutierrez of Mexico. Luis was the boss at all times. He never asked Angelo Dundee what was next. All the planning was by his command.

It was the same way with Napoles. I watched him at the CREA Gym in Tijuana tuning up for a tune up fight with journeyman Herbie Lee,a fight that was to take place in the bullring.Napoles hadn't fought in the U.S. at that time. Within year he would be the welterweight champion.Kid Rapidez,Jose's trainer, was around but from what I could guess he was another ring post.

What fascinated me about this pair was that had such great skills. Their fighting efforts seemed innate. They had all the weapons.Knew how to adjust. They always seemed in complete control.The other guy sensed that they were in there with a fighter that knew more about boxing than they did.It left them with a feeling of insecurity.Watch the expression on Ernie Lopez's face when he fights Napoles. It's a read that says "This guy what I'm going to do beforehand and has me all figured out."

Even at the end of their careers it was interesting to watch Napoles and Rodriguez. Jose's eyes were coming apart and his time spent in the gym fell way to the racetrack but you could still see that guile. Luis was more or less burned out. He rode a career that had grinded him to a halt.But like his countryman you could still sense the air of infallibility.

The mythical match up would have been to see them in the ring doing battle to decide who was the better.My guy was Napoles but that isn't to say that Luis could have come out on top. So I'll put it this way.They could have fought each other forever. No one would have wanted to see them stop.


Luis Rodriguez

Jose Napoles inside his house in Ciudad Juarez. My painting of him is on the wall in back.

[chrisjs1985]

Roger, nicely put! I am a big fan of those two Cubans. Napoles, a natural welterweight, dominated the welterweight division and reigned undisputed forever, and Rodriguez, a great welterweight, would regularly jump up to middleweight, spot the other guy 10-15 pounds, go to their hometown on short notice, and totally spank them.

Rodriguez, in a different era would likely win titles from welter to middle, and reign for a long time, but unfortunately for him, that wasn't to be and for me remains the most underrated of all the great fighters in history.

[dagosd2000]

You Can Have The Puncher

I know I'll get some argument with this,but you can have all those big punchers.I'll take the boxer for my boxing entertainment.Big bombers like Tyson,Marciano,Foreman;if they didn't knockout their opponent it was a bad fight. Something went wrong.The pundits will predict that the big puncher will get the guy out of there.It's a sure bet. It will be only a matter of time.it's what we expect.When it doesn't happen we're disappointed.When Mike Tyson walked around with Bone Crusher Smith it was judged a lousy fight.Maybe a good waltz,but a lousy fight.Then the time will come when one of these big dam busters gets his cracks in the walls and his world comes crashing down. When Foreman did his pirouette to the canvas in Zaire he contemplated suicide.He wanted to fight five guys in one night to show he was still a dam buster.When Sonny Liston rolled around on the mat in Lewistown the air came out of him like the Hindenburg.

The big bombers depend on getting their big one across. They're a crude dude for the most part. They club and pound away until the other guy says,"I've had enough."However, when some other guy says, "You ain't so tough",then that momentum turns to his favor. The puny underdog has won the hearts of the fans.

The best fights that I've seen are when two good boxers get in there and show the fans everything in the manual about how to fight a prizefight. When I went up to the Olympic Auditorium to see the Ramoses(Mando and Sugar) try to outsmart each other I felt I left the arena with a diploma in my hands. Now Sugar was a bomber but he was also a schooled fighter.Those Cubans that came to America had extensive amateur back rounds and had been taught by the best. They were fighting textbooks.

Yesterday I talked about two other Cubanos -Jose Napoles and Luis Rodriguez. When Jose took on Emile Griffith,who was as smart in the ring as anyone ,Jose knew he wasn't going to get Griffith out of there early if at all. Too bad the film of that fight is so shaky. What a performance between two Houdinis.You could sense the wheels tuning inside their heads. The next rabbit they could pull out of the hat.The four fights Luis Rodriguez had with Griffith are fistic masterpieces.Too bad Rembrandt couldn't have been around to paint them.

One fight that always stood out for me was a 10 rounder between a couple of Southland lightweights-Paulie Armstead and Jimmy Fields at the old Coliseum in San Diego. Two boxing chess masters slipping and sliding,countering,leading,feignting; and in the process writing a discourse regarding pugilism.

All these fights I named in the previous two paragraphs went the distance.No one was let down because one of the other guys didn't get launched from the ring.If you want to see what is comprised in the complete fighter's make up you have to watch him use everything in the arsenal.It takes awhile so sit back and savor.

Now I'm going to lead with my chin.I'd rather watch a guy like Joey Maxim than Joe Louis.With Joe it was one way.If he couldn't catch you something was wrong.With Maxim you just couldn't catch him. But then again the fans went to see Joe Louis poleaxe his opponent instead of sitting around for 10 rounds to watch Joey outthink the guy he was fighting.Maybe that's stretching it too far.So I'll settle for a guy who could do it both ways ,or anyway he wanted-Sugar Ray Robinson.Can't give me any argument on that score.


Emile Griffith

[dagosd2000]

A Fighter By Any other Name

You had to feel bad for Johnny Paychek when he fought Joe Louis. He was on that roster of that "Bum Of The Month Club" when Louis had run out of viable opponents so Mike Jacobs,to keep Joe tuned up more or less,had him fight anyone that was breathing in the heavyweight division. But Paychek is probably most remembered for having the unfortunate last name that prompted Louis to say before the fight(or was it Jack Blackburn) "Time to cash this Paychek in."

Well,Johnny "lived up" to the billing,or I should say he "Died with his boxing shoes on."He couldn't have more ripe for a Joe Louis.A gangly pasty skinned fella with a hairline that was in retreat,he practically had to be shoved out of his corner at the sound of the opening bell. He was a Nervous Nelly tip toeing around the ring not wanting to egg Louis on by initiating a punch with any mean intentions. Then in round 2 Louis figured that there was no way the fans were going to get their money's worth out of this little show so he uncorked a right hand over Paychek's trembling left that landed flush on Johnny's jaw. He "hung" in the air for an instant and then did a back flop to the mat.The expression on his face looked like "How do you want your bills?Large or small?"

Yeah,the scribes had a field day with that one. Just like I'm having.But I can't see how Johnny Paychek could relish anything out of that fight unless he could laugh a little at himself. But then again it was his last name that sticks in our memories. What else could Joe Louis say?

Now if Johnny's last name was "Smith" or "Jones" what could have Joe said that could be included in his many memorable quotes?Johnny should have been thankful his last name wasn't "Asswuppin."


Joe Louis

[AntonioMartin]

Sugar Ray Robinson

Ali was like that too. A boxer who could easily go 15, with enough power to take you out too, as his 37 kos in 56 wins attest.

Ok I might get my musical tastes criticized here, but I was born in 1972: they are like the 1981-82 Puerto Rican musical phenomenon Menudo, who could sing a softie ("Clara") or rock you (their cover of Kiss' "I was Made For Loving You", "Fui Hecho Para Amarte") and many other music acts which can sing soft or hard either way. That's what Sugar Ray Robinson and Muhammad Ali were in boxing; they could paint a beautiful masterpiece or "bam!" their opponent out of there!

[dagosd2000]

Sugar Ray Robinson

Ali was like that too. A boxer who could easily go 15, with enough power to take you out too, as his 37 kos in 56 wins attest.

Ok I might get my musical tastes criticized here, but I was born in 1972: they are like the 1981-82 Puerto Rican musical phenomenon Menudo, who could sing a softie ("Clara") or rock you (their cover of Kiss' "I was Made For Loving You", "Fui Hecho Para Amarte") and many other music acts which can sing soft or hard either way. That's what Sugar Ray Robinson and Muhammad Ali were in boxing; they could paint a beautiful masterpiece or "bam!" their opponent out of there!

Tony
I was born in 1947.I thought "menudo "was pig's stomach.Just kidding.I totally agree with your quote,though I'm still not sure about "menudo." Yeah,Ali was like that too.

[dagosd2000]

Tepito Nights

I had a sister in law who lived in Tepito with her two sons and four daughters. She was my wife's oldest sister.Her name was Virgnia. She was the oldest of the daughters in the family. There were nine children altogether. They lived in a poor ranchita on top of a mountain in the pueblito Paredones. At the time it was only Virginia,and her older brother living on the ranch with their parents.Their mother was pregnant with a girl who is now my wife Maria. Their father was a paymaster for a mining company.One day he had the payroll with him as he was riding his horse down the mountain.He was taking the payroll to pay the miners who lived at the bottom of the mountain in the town of Jiquilpan.As he was riding he was ambushed by bandits who slit his throat and stole the money.My wife never saw her father.Later,her mother married a man who had a job delivering movies to the theaters in the rural area of of Michoacan.

She had six more children with this man. My wife describes him as a nice person but he was a heavy drinker. He also had a family in Mexico City.One time he went there for a visit and died of a heart attack.By that time the oldest brother Pancho was married and didn't live on the ranch. Virginia was supposed to be second in charge of rearing her siblings but she didn't like doing it.They all said that she had a cruel streak and would beat them regularly even when they hadn't done anything wrong. After a few years Virginia left with her novio to Mexico City.But after six children and starving to death half the time the problems were exasperated even more when her husband just picked up and left one day.

Without any means of support Virginia and her two sons worked selling eggs,cheese,and cream in the streets where they lived in the barrio Tepito.There are an estimated millions who work in the streets on Mexico City.It's like a great big swap meet.The residents and owners of the stores on those streets don't like it but the vendors, like Virginia,pay the cops and the city so they can operate their businesses.It's a haven for crime,especially a market for stolen goods,counterfeit merchandise, and pickpockets.

I had another sister in law named Margarita who lived in Mexico City in an upscale neighborhood called Zaragoza that was right across the street from the big park they called Unidad Deprtivo. Margarita had married a rich boy Chilango who ran his mother's uniform factory.They made uniforms for school kids. School kids in Mexico have to wear their uniforms to school. Well,this sister in law Margarita was like a female Black Widow spider.She always had some guy that she was stringing along. She was living with Virginia and working in a store when she trapped this privileged son into marrying her. I don't think he had ever been laid before.Anyway,to make a long story short, every time my wife and I would go to Mexico City we'd look up her two sisters.I wasn't that thrilled about visiting them,and my wife at first didn't want much to do with virginia,but then time heals all wounds-I guess.

One day we took a cab to Virginia's place in Tepito. She lived in a three room apartment upstairs with no running water. In one room slept the girls.There were four beds separated by a clothesline with a sheet draped over.It was like each girl had her "own room."One of the girls told me she was going to school to become a nurse.I saw one of her textbooks.The copywrite date on it was "1932."Her instructor would come over to take her to school and then drive her back. Found out from her sister that the guy was married and had a family. He was old enough to be her father.

The two boys had their own room. They helped their mother during the day selling the eggs,cheese,and cream in the street.I'd say they were in their late tens. One was named Francisco.They called him Pancho. He was very serious and worked hard for his mother.His brother was named Lauro and he was a very nice kid and shy except when he got drunk,and that was just about every night.He was a swell kid when he was sober but when he tied one on he was a bad seed. One night Pancho came home ,and Lauro(they say for no reason)cracked him in the face with a bottle and put out an eye.I guess he was sorry he did it.It was over and what could he do?Where would he go?He was like that when he drank. They say he also wet the bed.

One night Lauro asked me if I wanted to go bar hopping with him in the neighborhood. Well,I sure didn't want to go out exploring alone but figured Lauro was a familiar enough face around the area that they wouldn't find me dead in the street in the morning.At least that's what I thought.Besides, Lauro knew he'd be drinking on my money.

We went to this one cantina around the corner and went inside.The ceiling was low,the floor concrete,and the smell was a mixture of stale beer,sweat,and cigarette smoke.We ambled up to the bar and took a couple of stools. As usual in these joints the jukebox was blaring full blast. You had to shout to be heard.Behind the bar on the wall was a black and white photograph of an old time fighter.The cantinero came over and we ordered a couple of Corona cahuamas in those big amber bottles and two glasses..
"You know Lauro,"I said."a lot of famous fighters came out of Teptio."
Lauro looked at me with a lost face.
"I didn't know that."he said kind of sheepishly.
"Yeah.Guys like Kid Azteca and Raton Macias."
Lauro just poured the beer into his glass.Then I thought that maybe those guys were before his time.
"Carlos Zarate and Ruben Olivares were from here. too."
"Who?"
"I'm thinking of going to the Arena Coliseo to watch the fights Friday.You want to go?"
"I've never been to the Arena Coliseo to watch the boxing matches. Just lucha libre."
"Then do you want to go?It's on me.We'll get good seats and then afterward get something to eat."
"No thanks,"he said looking straight ahead."I don't like the fights.They've never interested me."

We stayed in the cantina until closing which was in the early morning. Lauro threw up on the sidewalk before we got back to the apartment. He passed out on the floor just inside the door.Everyone was in bed. My wife was sleeping with her sister in her bed. I laid down on the floor beside them.

That Friday night I went to the fights at the Arena Coliseo with my Chilango brother in law who was married to Margarita. He had never been to the Arena Coliseo to watch the fights.Not even the lucha libre.


Raton Macias

[AntonioMartin]

Sugar Ray Robinson

Ali was like that too. A boxer who could easily go 15, with enough power to take you out too, as his 37 kos in 56 wins attest.

Ok I might get my musical tastes criticized here, but I was born in 1972: they are like the 1981-82 Puerto Rican musical phenomenon Menudo, who could sing a softie ("Clara") or rock you (their cover of Kiss' "I was Made For Loving You", "Fui Hecho Para Amarte") and many other music acts which can sing soft or hard either way. That's what Sugar Ray Robinson and Muhammad Ali were in boxing; they could paint a beautiful masterpiece or "bam!" their opponent out of there!

Tony
I was born in 1947.I thought "menudo "was pig's stomach.Just kidding.I totally agree with your quote,though I'm still not sure about "menudo." Yeah,Ali was like that too.

And yep!!!

Sabes que? The first time I read "Menudo Saturday" at a small restaurant's sign after I moved to Arizona, I thought "damn, that group has steeped way low these days!"..

Then I found out it's a soup and a rather delicious one...I am a fan of both Menudos...

[dagosd2000]

Sabes que? The first time I read "Menudo Saturday" at a small restaurant's sign after I moved to Arizona, I thought "damn, that group has steeped way low these days!"..

Then I found out it's a soup and a rather delicious one...I am a fan of both Menudos...

I guess I'll have to go to my grandkids' house and ask them if they have any Menudo records. But then I don't think they were around when records were still the thing.

[AntonioMartin]

Tepito Nights

I had a sister in law who lived in Tepito with her two sons and four daughters. She was my wife's oldest sister.Her name was Virgnia. She was the oldest of the daughters in the family. There were nine children altogether. They lived in a poor ranchita on top of a mountain in the pueblito Paredones. At the time it was only Virginia,and her older brother living on the ranch with their parents.Their mother was pregnant with a girl who is now my wife Maria. Their father was a paymaster for a mining company.One day he had the payroll with him as he was riding his horse down the mountain.He was taking the payroll to pay the miners who lived at the bottom of the mountain in the town of Jiquilpan.As he was riding he was ambushed by bandits who slit his throat and stole the money.My wife never saw her father.Later,her mother married a man who had a job delivering movies to the theaters in the rural area of of Michoacan.

She had six more children with this man. My wife describes him as a nice person but he was a heavy drinker. He also had a family in Mexico City.One time he went there for a visit and died of a heart attack.By that time the oldest brother Pancho was married and didn't live on the ranch. Virginia was supposed to be second in charge of rearing her siblings but she didn't like doing it.They all said that she had a cruel streak and would beat them regularly even when they hadn't done anything wrong. After a few years Virginia left with her novio to Mexico City.But after six children and starving to death half the time the problems were exasperated even more when her husband just picked up and left one day.

Without any means of support Virginia and her two sons worked selling eggs,cheese,and cream in the streets where they lived in the barrio Tepito.There are an estimated millions who work in the streets on Mexico City.It's like a great big swap meet.The residents and owners of the stores on those streets don't like it but the vendors, like Virginia,pay the cops and the city so they can operate their businesses.It's a haven for crime,especially a market for stolen goods,counterfeit merchandise, and pickpockets.

I had another sister in law named Margarita who lived in Mexico City in an upscale neighborhood called Zaragoza that was right across the street from the big park they called Unidad Deprtivo. Margarita had married a rich boy Chilango who ran his mother's uniform factory.They made uniforms for school kids. School kids in Mexico have to wear their uniforms to school. Well,this sister in law Margarita was like a female Black Widow spider.She always had some guy that she was stringing along. She was living with Virginia and working in a store when she trapped this privileged son into marrying her. I don't think he had ever been laid before.Anyway,to make a long story short, every time my wife and I would go to Mexico City we'd look up her two sisters.I wasn't that thrilled about visiting them,and my wife at first didn't want much to do with virginia,but then time heals all wounds-I guess.

One day we took a cab to Virginia's place in Tepito. She lived in a three room apartment upstairs with no running water. In one room slept the girls.There were four beds separated by a clothesline with a sheet draped over.It was like each girl had her "own room."One of the girls told me she was going to school to become a nurse.I saw one of her textbooks.The copywrite date on it was "1932."Her instructor would come over to take her to school and then drive her back. Found out from her sister that the guy was married and had a family. He was old enough to be her father.

The two boys had their own room. They helped their mother during the day selling the eggs,cheese,and cream in the street.I'd say they were in their late tens. One was named Francisco.They called him Pancho. He was very serious and worked hard for his mother.His brother was named Lauro and he was a very nice kid and shy except when he got drunk,and that was just about every night.He was a swell kid when he was sober but when he tied one on he was a bad seed. One night Pancho came home ,and Lauro(they say for no reason)cracked him in the face with a bottle and put out an eye.I guess he was sorry he did it.It was over and what could he do?Where would he go?He was like that when he drank. They say he also wet the bed.

One night Lauro asked me if I wanted to go bar hopping with him in the neighborhood. Well,I sure didn't want to go out exploring alone but figured Lauro was a familiar enough face around the area that they wouldn't find me dead in the street in the morning.At least that's what I thought.Besides, Lauro knew he'd be drinking on my money.

We went to this one cantina around the corner and went inside.The ceiling was low,the floor concrete,and the smell was a mixture of stale beer,sweat,and cigarette smoke.We ambled up to the bar and took a couple of stools. As usual in these joints the jukebox was blaring full blast. You had to shout to be heard.Behind the bar on the wall was a black and white photograph of an old time fighter.The cantinero came over and we ordered a couple of Corona cahuamas in those big amber bottles and two glasses..
"You know Lauro,"I said."a lot of famous fighters came out of Teptio."
Lauro looked at me with a lost face.
"I didn't know that."he said kind of sheepishly.
"Yeah.Guys like Kid Azteca and Raton Macias."
Lauro just poured the beer into his glass.Then I thought that maybe those guys were before his time.
"Carlos Zarate and Ruben Olivares were from here. too."
"Who?"
"I'm thinking of going to the Arena Coliseo to watch the fights Friday.You want to go?"
"I've never been to the Arena Coliseo to watch the boxing matches. Just lucha libre."
"Then do you want to go?It's on me.We'll get good seats and then afterward get something to eat."
"No thanks,"he said looking straight ahead."I don't like the fights.They've never interested me."

We stayed in the cantina until closing which was in the early morning. Lauro threw up on the sidewalk before we got back to the apartment. He passed out on the floor just inside the door.Everyone was in bed. My wife was sleeping with her sister in her bed. I laid down on the floor beside them.

That Friday night I went to the fights at the Arena Coliseo with my Chilango brother in law who was married to Margarita. He had never been to the Arena Coliseo to watch the fights.Not even the lucha libre.


Raton Macias

I always thought If I ever visited Ciudad Mexico I needed to visit Arena Coliseo just l like I needed to visit El Zocalo, the art museums and etc. Like a tourist place...probably also catching a boxing undercard in Mexico would be great! (also the airport, as a tourist also because the one thing I enjoy as much as boxing is aviation and I need to spot aircraft at a Mexican airport someday! )

Alas I made it to Mexico but never to Mexico City nor any major towns for that matter, so no boxing programs or aircraft spotting for me in Mexico yet...

If you ever make it to Puerto Rico, amigo you need to visit Roberto Clemente Coliseum....not only is it the best example of modern architecture there-and next to the largest mall in the Caribbean, Plaza Las Americas-but also the Arena Coliseo of Puerto Rico. Every big boxing fight in Puerto Rico was held there and boxers such as Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, Roberto Duran, Carlos Zarate, Larry Holmes, El Chapo Rosario, Jose Luis Ramirez, Macho Camacho, Wilfredo Gomez, Tito Trinidad, Antonio "Kid Pambele" Cervantes, Michael Dokes, Ossie Ocasio, Antonio Avelar and even a pre-title, young Julio Cesar Chavez Sr. boxed there (Lupe Pintor and Alexis Arguello boxed at the adjacent Hiram Bithorn Stadium) I saw Chavez Sr. in person take care of Javier Fragoso as part of the Rosario-Ramirez I undercard!

Not to mention all the acts and shows like Maluma, Ricky Martin, El Chavo del Ocho, KISS, Def Leppard, Duran Duran, Madonna etc who played there too!

[dagosd2000]

A typical street in Tepito where business goes on as usual.

[AntonioMartin]

A typical street in Tepito where business goes on as usual.

Damn...Ive seen videos where it says you can buy just about anything there...Ive also seen reports about los carteles operating there selling contraband music etc...

[dagosd2000]

.




I always thought If I ever visited Ciudad Mexico I needed to visit Arena Coliseo just l like I needed to visit El Zocalo, the art museums and etc. Like a tourist place...probably also catching a boxing undercard in Mexico would be great! (also the airport, as a tourist also because the one thing I enjoy as much as boxing is aviation and I need to spot aircraft at a Mexican airport someday! )

Alas I made it to Mexico but never to Mexico City nor any major towns for that matter, so no boxing programs or aircraft spotting for me in Mexico yet...

If you ever make it to Puerto Rico, amigo you need to visit Roberto Clemente Coliseum....not only is it the best example of modern architecture there-and next to the largest mall in the Caribbean, Plaza Las Americas-but also the Arena Coliseo of Puerto Rico. Every big boxing fight in Puerto Rico was held there and boxers such as Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, Roberto Duran, Carlos Zarate, Larry Holmes, El Chapo Rosario, Jose Luis Ramirez, Macho Camacho, Wilfredo Gomez, Tito Trinidad, Antonio "Kid Pambele" Cervantes, Michael Dokes, Ossie Ocasio, Antonio Avelar and even a pre-title, young Julio Cesar Chavez Sr. boxed there (Lupe Pintor and Alexis Arguello boxed at the adjacent Hiram Bithorn Stadium) I saw Chavez Sr. in person take care of Javier Fragoso as part of the Rosario-Ramirez I undercard!

Not to mention all the acts and shows like Maluma, Ricky Martin, El Chavo del Ocho, KISS, Def Leppard, Duran Duran, Madonna etc who played there too!
[/quote]

If you ever go to the Arena Coliseo take some friends with you. It's in pretty rough part of town.If I ever get to Puerto Rico I'd love to go to Roberto Clemente Stadium.Clemente was one of my favorite ballplayers when I was a kid.When they first put him on baseball cards they had his name as "Bob Clemente."They thought "Roberto " was too Hispanic. As far as those music groups you mentioned you lost me. Sinatra,Tony Bennet,Ella Fitzgerald,Nat "King" Cole-if they played there Puerto Rico was in for a treat. I'm into the Latin sounds too,but my tastes are Pedro Infante,Javier Solis,Trio De Los Panchos,Perez Prado,and Vicente Fernandez. As far as bands go-Sonora Dinamita,Sonora Santanera,Tigres Del Norte,and Los Cadetes De Linares. Call me old fashioned.



Roberto "Bob" Clemente

[dagosd2000]

A typical street in Tepito where business goes on as usual.

Damn...Ive seen videos where it says you can buy just about anything there...Ive also seen reports about los carteles operating there selling contraband music etc...

The cartels sell more than contraband music.They are the jefes of Mexico.

[dagosd2000]

My favorite Puerto Rican musician-Tito Puente and his orchestra. When I go to New York I make a point of going to his mariscos restaurant and chowing down.

[AntonioMartin]

.




I always thought If I ever visited Ciudad Mexico I needed to visit Arena Coliseo just l like I needed to visit El Zocalo, the art museums and etc. Like a tourist place...probably also catching a boxing undercard in Mexico would be great! (also the airport, as a tourist also because the one thing I enjoy as much as boxing is aviation and I need to spot aircraft at a Mexican airport someday! )

Alas I made it to Mexico but never to Mexico City nor any major towns for that matter, so no boxing programs or aircraft spotting for me in Mexico yet...

If you ever make it to Puerto Rico, amigo you need to visit Roberto Clemente Coliseum....not only is it the best example of modern architecture there-and next to the largest mall in the Caribbean, Plaza Las Americas-but also the Arena Coliseo of Puerto Rico. Every big boxing fight in Puerto Rico was held there and boxers such as Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, Roberto Duran, Carlos Zarate, Larry Holmes, El Chapo Rosario, Jose Luis Ramirez, Macho Camacho, Wilfredo Gomez, Tito Trinidad, Antonio "Kid Pambele" Cervantes, Michael Dokes, Ossie Ocasio, Antonio Avelar and even a pre-title, young Julio Cesar Chavez Sr. boxed there (Lupe Pintor and Alexis Arguello boxed at the adjacent Hiram Bithorn Stadium) I saw Chavez Sr. in person take care of Javier Fragoso as part of the Rosario-Ramirez I undercard!

Not to mention all the acts and shows like Maluma, Ricky Martin, El Chavo del Ocho, KISS, Def Leppard, Duran Duran, Madonna etc who played there too!

If you ever go to the Arena Coliseo take some friends with you. It's in pretty rough part of town.If I ever get to Puerto Rico I'd love to go to Roberto Clemente Stadium.Clemente was one of my favorite ballplayers when I was a kid.When they first put him on baseball cards they had his name as "Bob Clemente."They thought "Roberto " was too Hispanic. As far as those music groups you mentioned you lost me. Sinatra,Tony Bennet,Ella Fitzgerald,Nat "King" Cole-if they played there Puerto Rico was in for a treat. I'm into the Latin sounds too,but my tastes are Pedro Infante,Javier Solis,Trio De Los Panchos,Perez Prado,and Vicente Fernandez. As far as bands go-Sonora Dinamita,Sonora Santanera,Tigres Del Norte,and Los Cadetes De Linares. Call me old fashioned.



Roberto "Bob" Clemente
[/quote]
Thanks for that photo amigo!!

Thats true about Clemente being called Bob and one of the reasons he himself did not back up the statehood political ideology for Puerto Rico. He hated being called Bob.

I love Tigres del Norte! Im also partial to Bronco de America, and to Los Temerarios, La Mafia...as you can see my musical tastes vary wildly ..lol from Menudo and The Beatles to Los Temerarios, with Duran Duran, Madonna, KISS and Def Leppard mixed in there as well...lol

I once met Vicente Fernandez and his son Alejandro too..they are very nice, humble people que no han dejado fame to go to their head.

Sinatra..what can I say? He did it his way!

Anyways, I wish we were still in the early 80s boxing wise...you know Bobby Chacon ,Danny Lopez, Salvador Sanchez, Ruben Castillo..you can say that west US boxing, from Texas to California, passing by here and also by Utah, was alive!! Then you had Nevada which of course, was and still is, a whole other world when it comes down to big time boxing....

Think about this too: Muhammad Ali fought in San Diego and LA a few times..Ruben Olivares basically lived in LA ,Duran and Arguello fought in California couple times each....Pipino, Chavez Sr., Pintor....Chacon and Limon duked it out in LA and in Sacramento, one of the greatest fights in history....I mean wow!!!

[dagosd2000]

Antonio
When the thread was started about where great fighters were born I was thinking that Tijuana is a city where a lot of great Mexican fighters now call home.Julio Cesar Chavez has a home in Tijuana.So does his son. Erik Morales has a gym in the Zona Norte and owns lot of property. Jibaro Perez lives in TJ. So does Antonio Margarito. Dinamita Estrada lived in TJ before he was got mixed up with the wrong crowd and was killed.Marcos Geraldo lives in TJ and has a stable of fighters.Current fighters like Jaime Munguia and Luis Nery are Tijuaneros.Female fighters like Kenia Enriquez and Jackie Nava live in Tijuana. Gato Gonzalez (former WBC lightweight champion)has a house by the racetrack."Former champ "Travieso" Arce lives by the airport. Maramero Paez and his son call Tijuana home. Memo Ayon ,who I saw beat Ray Robinson in the bullring,lives in TJ and his son is involved with promoting.

BTW.Vicente Fernandez used to sell tacos in Colonia Obrera in TJ in the early 70's. He was seen on a local TV program called "Club De Las Estrellas" where he sang with the mariachis. He won a ball point pen and also caught the eye of some impresarios. Shortly, he became the most popular singer in Mexico. I was with my wife in 1975 at a night club where he was performing called Los Flamingos. It was on the old road to Rosarito Beach. I don't know why but he came up to our table(we were sitting up front) and invited him to his dressing room after he was finished singing. We had a couple of drinks with him and he signed some pictures. He spoke to me in broken English. He signed the pictures "You friend,Vicente."I've got the pictures somewhere. It was when he was on his way to the top. He has a huge ranch by the airport in Guadalajara,but lives mostly in Texas after some kidnappers grabbed his son,Vicente Jr., and held him for ransom. They cut off one of the kid's ears to show that they meant business. Asi es Mexico.

Also when I was in Ciudad Juarez and talked with Jose Napoles I asked him about the famous mariachi singer and songwriter,Jose Alfredo Jimenez.He wrote the very popular song "El Rey" as a tribute to Mantequilla.In the end Napoles was more Mexican than Cuban. He was the first foreigner that the president of Mexico(Diaz Ordaz) stepped in and proclaimed him a Mexican citizen. Very cool.


El Rey-a tribute to Jose Napoles

[dagosd2000]

Tying Up Some Lose Ends From Yesterday

I certainly wouldn't have passed up the opportunity to have talked to Jose Napoles when I finally tracked him down in Ciudad Juarez but by that time he was slipping in and out of reality. When he started to tell me about his "last year's trip" he took to Cuba to visit his relatives I had to hit the pause button.I guess he and Jose Alfredo Jimenez shared a fondness for tequila. They were not only friends but were totally immersed in that "macho' lifestyle that, if not innate, becomes an acquired way to move through life in Mexico if you're male.They asked Napoles after winning the title from Curtis Cokes and wearing a sombrero that the aficinados had put on his head on if he would ever leave Mexico.
"They could put me in the middle of the ocean,"said Mantequilla."and I would just have to listen to the mariachis and I would swim back."
That's the kind of "macho" answers Mexicans adored coming from the expatriate

Roberto Clemente to me was the most pleasing to the eyes baseball player I ever saw in my life.He had it all but so did Willie Mays.But while Mays was "wild" in his movements Clemente was electrifying yet graceful like a dancer. Even when he walked into the batter's box you couldn't take your eyes off him.The first few years of his career he wasn't such a good hitter. But he learned how to hit the outside pitch to the opposite field,and he did it with power. In San Diego we had a good hitter,Tony Gwynn who went to the opposite field. But most of Tony's hits from the left side went between the 3rd baseman and the shortstop.Even Gwynn described himself as a "Punch and Judy hitter."But Clemente from his right side hit rockets that either caromed off the right field wall (or would go over for a home run).Then he'd run to first ,legs flailing, rounding the bag,cap flying off his head,and slide gloriously into second for a double. They put him right field because he had a laser throw that could reach 3rd base on a perfect straight short one hop. The accuracy was amazing.He was the most beautiful baseball player ever. His movements looked like they were choreographed.

Vicente Fernandez was( or is )my wife's favorite singer.Vicente hasn't performed in years.He leaves the singing to his sons and grandsons. My wife's favorite song is "La Ley Del Monte."He was the star in the movie of the same name as the song. You guessed it.He sang the song riding his horse.

Last night there as a very good fight on the tube. Miguel Berchelt against Oscar Valdez. (I almost switched channels because they spent an hour hyping the thing up before the start)Valdez was moving up in weight and was undefeated.Berchelt was the champ of the junior welters and they were already comparing him to Chavez. Well,I talked about strategy the other day and Berchelt's was all wrong and he couldn't correct the mistakes. Valdez on the other hand had the right plan of attack. He was shorter in height and reach but he used his compactness to get low and move in close and when Berchelt would swing wide Valdez was inside all that and was catching him with left hooks and short right hands.Instead of Berchelt trying to offset Valdez with body shots and uppercuts his wide swings were not landing and left himself open for the counters.If Berchelt was frustrated his corner didn't know how to tell him how to change the plan.It was just a matter of time before the end came.

One more point before I let this go. The fight almost ended earlier when Valdez had Berchelt in big trouble. I thought that Berchelt was gong to go to the canvas but then the ref gave him a standing eight count. I could never understand that standing eight count. Either let the fight go and Berchelt would have been dropped or have the ref stop it.But this standing eight count gives the guy in trouble a rest.Valdez was that close to giving Berchelt the coup de gras and then the ref stops the action. It doesn't make sense. I think the ref wanted to stop it but at the last instant changed to a standing eight. He blew it.


My wife's,Maria, favorite singer singing her favorite song-La Ley Del Monte

[dagosd2000]

Facade

Getting back to that Valdez/Berchelt fight the other night.(Notice I put Valdez's name first because he won.Isn't that what we do?Before the fight it was billed Berchelt/Valdez because Berchelt was the favorite.Only Ali could always get his name first),and this has to do with just about all major sporting events that go on today,why all the cut out cardboard fans,phony crowd noise, fireworks ,strobe lights,laser beams, smoke,and any of the other pyrotechnics I left out?We all know that nobody is there except the fighters and their corners,the TV crews,the announcers,and some hard body babes that stand in the ring while the fighters are being announced. (How about that babe that was on the left of the screen?What a camel toe!)

Who is fooling who?Does it make us feel that like everything is back to normal? Of course not.Everyone is still wearing masks. To me it's kind o depressing. It's like a drug that' masks the symptoms.But you can't help to see that nobody is there.Despite the effort they make you can see through the facade.

Dear old Dr. Fauci said the other day that it's a strong possibility that we'll have to keep wearing our masks into 2022.This guy is more important than the president. But the president hasn't been so important in awhile. So who is? Put it this way. The people who were big shots once are being pared down into cap guns. And that includes these athletes. The ball club in San Diego,the Padres,just signed this kid Fernando Tatis Jr. to a 14 year deal with a 340 million price tag. Hell,the kid isn't even 21. He slumped his BA below 300 last season and he gets the deal of the century. Disgusting.I don't care if he gets all that money.He ain't worth it.Now he's going to play in a stadium that's empty but fortified with all the wind and smoke technology has to offer. Forget it. I'll find something else to do. There's still a lot of books I can get into or some Gilligan Island reruns I haven't seen

But getting back to the beginning of this tirade. Lose the the phony fanfare.It's just a gimmick.An illusuion.A facade. But you can keep that girl with the cameltoe on the screen. Hell,give her 340 million.She's worth more than Fernando Tatis Jr.


Another facade.But he's still in the news.Him and Dr. Fauci can go away.If Lomachenko can disappear so can they.

[dagosd2000]

Boxing,Boxing,Boxing,And Something Related

It cracks me up to think that Joe Louis ducked black fighters.All Louis knew what to do was fight.All that matchmaking stuff was in the hands of Mike Jacobs.If there had been another "Joe Louis" lurking in the division Jacobs would have had Joe in the ring with him.Jacobs was in the business to make money. Putting Louis in the ring with a Lem Franklin or a Jimmy Bivins wouldn't have drawn flies.it was a time when black on black matchups were chump change at the gate. Not until WW II ended did things turn around. Looking back,the only black fighter that would have posed a problem to Louis before the war would have been Ezzard Charles.May have been the most underrated fighter ever. Probably the best light heavy ever but never fought for that title. Figure if Billy Conn at 167 pounds gave Louis fits,Charles would have tied The Brown Bomber in knots. Later,he did just that,but then Louis had faded and was making a comeback so there's the reasoning.

Saw that there was a thread about the misinformation on Stamford Harris' height.2000 views. BoxRec had him down or should I say up to 6 foot 5.I saw him fight Ken Norton at the Coliseum when they were feeding him the likes of fighters like Stamford Harris.I was sitting on the aisle when Harris ambled into the ring.I'm 5/10 and I could see that Harris was under those measurements. Maybe he was 5/9.Maybe. He wore this robe that read "The Bamboo Forest" on the back.I think he was from somewhere in the Caribbean.To put it nicely he was a horrible fighter. I was still sore at Norton for roughing me up in a sparring session and I wanted The Bamboo Forest to act like Smoky The Bear with Ken. Instead he performed like a Teddy Bear.Harris was blubbery and slow and never offered anything that resembled a punch with mean intentions.When the massacre finally came to an end Harris grabs the ring mic and starts apologizing and saying he wants a rematch. By the time he finished crying the crowd had left the arena and was in their cars.

One more swipe at that ref during the Valdez/Berchelt fight.After he gave Berchelt the standing eight and the bell ended the round,he staggered back to his corner. If I was reffing a fight and saw that I'd call it over. A fighter who staggers back to his corner is hurt badly.To push him back out there is criminal. I remember when Monzon was teeing off on Jose Napoles in round 6. Jose staggered back to his corner. I knew if he came out again it would be curtains.So he sat on his stool and gave up. He did the right thing.When Berchelt at the end was finally hit with that right hand and pitched forward on his face he was in very bad shape.That beating is going to stay with him. All this nonsense about fighting to the "death" is ridiculous. That's when a corner has to step in and say this guy is young and we want to see him live a long and healthy life. I guess it's easy for the fan to want to see his hero to fall on his sword.

We get to see Canelo fight this weekend. He'll fight in the U.S. The big fights in Mexico are over. Mexico was in bad shape before this pandemic and now it's pushing Mexico over the edge and it's getting surreal. Now that Biden is in there he's going to lift the restrictions on immigration. The Mexican news shows the caravans coming up from the south. Illegal crossings are back to pre Trump days. The thing that gets me is that the Mexican news reports all this as great stuff! I don't get it. Instead of the government of Mexico being humiliated and ashamed by so many of their countrymen leaving and trying to fix the problem they are happy that they want to leave and go to the United States.Geez.I can't stand the U.S. anymore because it's an economic disaster run by cartels so I want to go to Mexico for a better life. I'm sure my government will be happy for me and want Mexico to embrace me with open arms and give me everything for free.


Canelo Alvarez

[Chuck1052]

Boxing,Boxing,Boxing,And Something Related

It cracks me up to think that Joe Louis ducked black fighters.All Louis knew what to do was fight.All that matchmaking stuff was in the hands of Mike Jacobs.If there had been another "Joe Louis" lurking in the division Jacobs would have had Joe in the ring with him.Jacobs was in the business to make money. Putting Louis in the ring with a Lem Franklin or a Jimmy Bivins wouldn't have drawn flies.it was a time when black on black matchups were chump change at the gate. Not until WW II ended did things turn around. Looking back,the only black fighter that would have posed a problem to Louis before the war would have been Ezzard Charles.May have been the most underrated fighter ever. Probably the best light heavy ever but never fought for that title. Figure if Billy Conn at 167 pounds gave Louis fits,Charles would have tied The Brown Bomber in knots. Later,he did just that,but then Louis had faded and was making a comeback so there's the reasoning.

Saw that there was a thread about the misinformation on Stamford Harris' height.2000 views. BoxRec had him down or should I say up to 6 foot 5.I saw him fight Ken Norton at the Coliseum when they were feeding him the likes of fighters like Stamford Harris.I was sitting on the aisle when Harris ambled into the ring.I'm 5/10 and I could see that Harris was under those measurements. Maybe he was 5/9.Maybe. He wore this robe that read "The Bamboo Forest" on the back.I think he was from somewhere in the Caribbean.To put it nicely he was a horrible fighter. I was still sore at Norton for roughing me up in a sparring session and I wanted The Bamboo Forest to act like Smoky The Bear with Ken. Instead he performed like a Teddy Bear.Harris was blubbery and slow and never offered anything that resembled a punch with mean intentions.When the massacre finally came to an end Harris grabs the ring mic and starts apologizing and saying he wants a rematch. By the time he finished crying the crowd had left the arena and was in their cars.

One more swipe at that ref during the Valdez/Berchelt fight.After he gave Berchelt the standing eight and the bell ended the round,he staggered back to his corner. If I was reffing a fight and saw that I'd call it over. A fighter who staggers back to his corner is hurt badly.To push him back out there is criminal. I remember when Monzon was teeing off on Jose Napoles in round 6. Jose staggered back to his corner. I knew if he came out again it would be curtains.So he sat on his stool and gave up. He did the right thing.When Berchelt at the end was finally hit with that right hand and pitched forward on his face he was in very bad shape.That beating is going to stay with him. All this nonsense about fighting to the "death" is ridiculous. That's when a corner has to step in and say this guy is young and we want to see him live a long and healthy life. I guess it's easy for the fan to want to see his hero to fall on his sword.

We get to see Canelo fight this weekend. He'll fight in the U.S. The big fights in Mexico are over. Mexico was in bad shape before this pandemic and now it's pushing Mexico over the edge and it's getting surreal. Now that Biden is in there he's going to lift the restrictions on immigration. The Mexican news shows the caravans coming up from the south. Illegal crossings are back to pre Trump days. The thing that gets me is that the Mexican news reports all this as great stuff! I don't get it. Instead of the government of Mexico being humiliated and ashamed by so many of their countrymen leaving and trying to fix the problem they are happy that they want to leave and go to the United States.Geez.I can't stand the U.S. anymore because it's an economic disaster run by cartels so I want to go to Mexico for a better life. I'm sure my government will be happy for me and want Mexico to embrace me with open arms and give me everything for free.


Canelo Alvarez

Roger, Lem Franklin drew very good gates in his bouts with Abe Simon and Bob Pastor in Cleveland. But he was a genuine contender for only about four months after he stopped Simon. His career took a tremendous nosedive beginning with his knockout loss to Pastor, Starting with that loss to Pastor, Franklin lost eight of his last ten bouts of his career, seven of those losses by stoppage. Franklin was a very exciting fighter with tremendous punching power, but he lacked durability and stamina. In his final bout, He sustained fatal injuries while being knocked out by Larry Lane.

[dagosd2000]

Roger, Lem Franklin drew very good gates in his bouts with Abe Simon and Bob Pastor in Cleveland. But he was a genuine contender for only about four months after he stopped Simon. His career took a tremendous nosedive beginning with his knockout loss to Pastor, Starting with that loss to Pastor, Franklin lost eight of his last ten bouts of his career, seven of those losses by stoppage. Franklin was a very exciting fighter with tremendous punching power, but he lacked durability and stamina. In his final bout, He sustained fatal injuries while being knocked out by Larry Lane.


Chuck
If Frankilin had been white Mike Jacobs might have booked him at least into "The Bum Of The Month Club". It wasn't until after the war that things changed. Think of something like that today-drawing the color line. Think of Ali not wanting to fight black contenders. His legend would have been built solely on the likes of Quarry,Cooper,Wepner,Bonavena, Chuvalo,Bugner,Blin.Sounds crazy.Doesn't even cross peoples' minds today.

[goose 5]

Roger: Were Denny Moyer and Ray Robinson's listed heights of 5'8" and 5'11" accurate, in your view ?

[dagosd2000]

Roger: Were Denny Moyer and Ray Robinson's listed heights of 5'8" and 5'11" accurate, in your view ?

Sounds about right.