Who's the best Mexican Boxer so far of the 21st Century?

[gilgamesh]

You really only got a few serious options I'd say. There's Juan Manuel Marquez and Canelo Alvarez. Erik Morales and Marco Antonio Barrera possibly as well though a great deal of their careers were fought in the 90's, they still achieved noteworthy things in the 2000's, and if you wanted to throw them into the conversation that's fair enough.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Well since there are 2 for sure PED cheats and 1 who somehow went through puberty at 38 i will go with MAB

Taking roids out of it marquez

[gilgamesh]

I'd go with Marquez personally. Mayweather and Pacquiao are pretty much undisputed as the #1 and #2 Boxers so far of the 21st Century, and Marquez was dead even with Pacquiao every single time through 4 fights, and ultimately knocked him out.

Add to that his win over Barrera, His Lightweight Championship reign, and His titles at Featherweight and 130. I'd say he's the Top Mexican Boxer so far of the 21st century.

Canelo still has time to close the gap though, and if he cleans out the 168 division you can make a very strong case that he's passed him up. Not quite yet though.

For me at least.

Also. I don't believe Marquez ever tested positive for PED's or Steroids. So you're just assuming he was on them. I'd say it definitely looked pretty obvious that he was, but he didn't test positive. So if you can just assume he was on them, and that counts against him, then nobody in Boxing ever accomplished anything because I assume all the top guys are on something.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

I assume most women dont have dicks, but if i see and Adams apple and a bulge i make an easy quick judgement

[gilgamesh]

I assume most women dont have dicks, but if i see and Adams apple and a bulge i make an easy quick judgement

Steroids ain't the same way. Where does the Steroid assumption come from? Pimples on Marquez's back? I have pimples on my back too. I've never taken steroids.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

And when someones as blatant with ped abuse as Marquez i hold it against them
I dont give a crap what his non vada tests say

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

I assume most women dont have dicks, but if i see and Adams apple and a bulge i make an easy quick judgement

Steroids ain't the same way. Where does the Steroid assumption come from? Pimples on Marquez's back? I have pimples on my back too. I've never taken steroids.

Look at his body transformation. He didnt exactly try to hide it. Watch him in the 1st pac fight and the 4th.

[gilgamesh]

I assume most women dont have dicks, but if i see and Adams apple and a bulge i make an easy quick judgement

Steroids ain't the same way. Where does the Steroid assumption come from? Pimples on Marquez's back? I have pimples on my back too. I've never taken steroids.

Look at his body transformation. He didnt exactly try to hide it. Watch him in the 1st pac fight and the 4th.

He didn't test positive.

If you're assuming, you have to assume it across the board for every fighter from his era. That's the same as ranking a guy historically based on who you THINK he could beat. That's not a legit way of looking at things.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Why? Why cant i put an asterisk by someones name when its obvious they cheated?

Do you look at margarito's win over cotto as legit? He was never caught using loaded handwraps in that fight

Is the black bottle fight tainted for you? Why? It was never proven anything illegal was in that bottle

Marquez was my favorite fighter to watch. I tried to emulate him whenever i put gloves on. But i look at him differently. I just dont ignore reality especially when someone wasnt vada tested

[gilgamesh]

Why? Why cant i put an asterisk by someones name when its obvious they cheated?

Do you look at margarito's win over cotto as legit? He was never caught using loaded handwraps in that fight

Is the black bottle fight tainted for you? Why? It was never proven anything illegal was in that bottle

Marquez was my favorite fighter to watch. I tried to emulate him whenever i put gloves on. But i look at him differently. I just dont ignore reality especially when someone wasnt vada tested

Do I look at Margarito's win over Cotto as legit? Yes actually I do.

Is the Black Bottle tainted for me? Yes because "Give me the other Bottle. The one that I mixed" whenever only Water was allowed in the corner is obvious that something is amiss there.

Marquez deserves the benefit of the doubt as much as any other fighter.

If he doesn't then nobody does.

[Evander]

I'd go with Marquez personally. Mayweather and Pacquiao are pretty much undisputed as the #1 and #2 Boxers so far of the 21st Century, and Marquez was dead even with Pacquiao every single time through 4 fights, and ultimately knocked him out.

Add to that his win over Barrera, His Lightweight Championship reign, and His titles at Featherweight and 130. I'd say he's the Top Mexican Boxer so far of the 21st century.

Canelo still has time to close the gap though, and if he cleans out the 168 division you can make a very strong case that he's passed him up. Not quite yet though.

For me at least.

Also. I don't believe Marquez ever tested positive for PED's or Steroids. So you're just assuming he was on them. I'd say it definitely looked pretty obvious that he was, but he didn't test positive. So if you can just assume he was on them, and that counts against him, then nobody in Boxing ever accomplished anything because I assume all the top guys are on something.

Marquez has a great record.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Then we just disagree on that i suppose

All great fighters on your list. Marquez has the best resume and was the most technically skilled and versatile of that group.

[margaret thatcher]

sudden burst of backne all over, roid gut, new big muscles.....all in his 30s

i mean, he never tested positive, but it's not rocket science

what exactly is causing all of that together if not 'meds'? puberty in his mid 30s or something?

[gilgamesh]

sudden burst of backne all over, roid gut, new big muscles.....all in his 30s

i mean, he never tested positive, but it's not rocket science

what exactly is causing all of that together? puberty in his mid 30s or something?

He never tested positive. Is the only thing that mattered in that statement.

[margaret thatcher]

I assume most women dont have dicks, but if i see and Adams apple and a bulge i make an easy quick judgement

Steroids ain't the same way. Where does the Steroid assumption come from? Pimples on Marquez's back? I have pimples on my back too. I've never taken steroids.

did you just randomly suddenly get those pimples for the first time when you were 30, along with a protruding roid gut and big ass muscle?

all timed with you needing to be bigger and stronger for a new division?

[margaret thatcher]

sudden burst of backne all over, roid gut, new big muscles.....all in his 30s

i mean, he never tested positive, but it's not rocket science

what exactly is causing all of that together? puberty in his mid 30s or something?

He never tested positive. Is the only thing that mattered in that statement.

neither did lance armstrong did he, for years and years he was clean

same with marion jones wasnt it

im just not that gullable, id be extremely surprised if he never used.

[gilgamesh]

I assume most women dont have dicks, but if i see and Adams apple and a bulge i make an easy quick judgement

Steroids ain't the same way. Where does the Steroid assumption come from? Pimples on Marquez's back? I have pimples on my back too. I've never taken steroids.

did you just randomly suddenly get those pimples for the first time when you were 30, along with a protruding roid gut and big ass muscle?

all timed with you needing to be bigger and stronger for a new division?

No I didn't.

Innocent until proven Guilty. It's a thing.

[margaret thatcher]

oh sure, he was never officially positive, but that's not the same as never using. 2 different things

[margaret thatcher]

Steroids ain't the same way. Where does the Steroid assumption come from? Pimples on Marquez's back? I have pimples on my back too. I've never taken steroids.

did you just randomly suddenly get those pimples for the first time when you were 30, along with a protruding roid gut and big ass muscle?

all timed with you needing to be bigger and stronger for a new division?

No I didn't.

Innocent until proven Guilty. It's a thing.

ah, so your case isnt must like his then

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Pec acne too
And one punch power at 38 for first time in career
Plus working with meme

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Innocent until proven guilty is in court of law

Standard much lower for civil suits

My boxing world is the civil standard

[gilgamesh]

oh sure, he was never officially positive, but that's not the same as never using. 2 different things

I didn't say he never used. I just said he never tested positive. That's all that matters. You can't rank somebody off of what you THINK they did.

You don't charge somebody with a crime if there's no evidence.

"What is the evidence that this man is a murderer?"

"Well your Honor. We have no evidence, but I'm pretty sure he did it. I mean just look at him"

"That checks out. Guilty!"

See how stupid that is?

[margaret thatcher]

new acne all over his body that he never had before

protruding, distended gut

new huge muscle growth

working with a known ped advocate for strength and conditioning

all at an advanced fighting age


ya, never tested postitive, like lancce armstrong didnt either, but i would bet the f@cking house he was loaded up with peds. im sure there are lots of dudes like him tbf who are using but not caught though

[margaret thatcher]

oh sure, he was never officially positive, but that's not the same as never using. 2 different things

I didn't say he never used. I just said he never tested positive. That's all that matters. You can't rank somebody off of what you THINK they did.

You don't charge somebody with a crime if there's no evidence.

"What is the evidence that this man is a murderer?"

"Well your Honor. We have no evidence, but I'm pretty sure he did it. I mean just look at him"

"That checks out. Guilty!"

See how stupid that is?

lol who is charging him with a crime?

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Im not naive most have used
But when someone throws it in your face...