World class British fighters?

[garethhop]

I'll go with Tyson Fury Anthony Joshua, Josh Taylor and Billy Joe Saunders as the only ones I could confidently state are world class fighters not on the slide. Saunders is borderline too based on recent resume.

Active fighters who were at one time world class but haven't got a recent enough significant win or have suffered a significant defeat would include Carl Frampton, Charlie Edwards, Callum Smith, Kell Brook, Amir Khan, Josh Warrington, Lee Selby, Dillian Whyte, Kal Yafai, Luke Campbell

Fringe world class fighters would include Laurence Okolie, Joshua Buatsi, Joe Joyce, John Ryder, Liam Williams, Kid Galahad, Jay Harris.

Couple of others coming through not quite there yet would include Conor Benn.


Entirely subjective but just to start a discussion - and really suggests a lack of top end British talent compared to 3-5 years ago.

[mickey1975]

If Callum Smith isn’t world class then only one person is.

[garethhop]

I do agree. And I'm also being harsh on Josh Warrington as well.

It's just the point that neither of those two have looked as impressive as they were in 2018 since then, have both been beaten and both had a very narrow victory again fighters unproven at world level.

[coneye]

Suppose it all depends on what you mean by world class ,, I would put world class has someone able to mix it and give a good account of themselves against the best in the world probably say top 10 .. Think i would definetly put Callum Smith up there , alongside Fury , and AJ , would'nt discount Frampton and Warrington from the list either , theve got the losses , but they could still mix it with most . Saunders suppose i would be hesitant but would have to put him up there , because he holds a title , but his actual resume is'nt very good , the list of who he has'nt fought is a lot longer than who he has . Galahad , for me is the interesting one , I could'nt kake my mind up with him , he's boring but seems to get the job done ,

Benn i actually like his heart and his confidence , but him mixing it with the worlds elite , Naaaw don't think so , can you imagine what a tough mexican let of the leash would do to him , , would'nt want to be his dad watching that one

[mickey1975]

Taylor the easiest pick.

[emallini]

You are mistaking world class with elite. If you are top 10 in your division then you are world class. Does not matter if you think the division is weak or terrible compared to previous eras. Have to put it in the context of the current era.

[Boxerbeetle]

I think the definition of ‘world class’ is being applied way too generously here - some of the “fringe” listed aren’t even really proven much above domestic level imo.

[smiling assassin]

Conor Benn give your head a wobble ( world class not quite there yet). What has he done to show he could be world level and don’t say that he beat Formella

[margaret thatcher]

Taylor the easiest pick.

id say taylor and josh and fury are all so easy to pick as world class that there is really no difference......taylor and fury id have as the number ones in their divisions , and aj as #2

[keirw]

The term 'world class' is subjective.

Some people see at as anyone who is among the best in their division, others see it as only the very best one or two in their division (often reffered to as elite).

Some might say that Callum Smith isn't world class despite his only defeat coming at the hands of a P4p star, yet others might say Luke Campbell is world class despite never beating any really top opponents.

This discrpency isn't specific to boxing, a couple years ago Alex Ferguson stated that there are only two world class players in football today (Messi and Ronaldo).
So by his definition France won the last World Cup and Bayern won the champions league last year despite neither team having a single world class player.

[margaret thatcher]

You are mistaking world class with elite. If you are top 10 in your division then you are world class. Does not matter if you think the division is weak or terrible compared to previous eras. Have to put it in the context of the current era.

ya kinda my take on it as well, a lot of ppl use it only to mean the absolute best guy or two in a division (and sometimes not even that---seen ppl say a division has no world class fighters!)

but for me it's roughly the top 10 range, as in actually deserving that spot and not going by abc funky rankings

of course, within that, you get different levels too. one world class fighter can be way better than another

[forcefraser]

Joe Joyce is world class as is Luke Campbell

[rio]

Luke Campbell was never and will never be world class. Loses everytime he steps beyond euro level and has even lost at euro level. He's similar to Josh Kelly.....looks elite at domestic level but struggles when he steps up.

[jameswilson]

Whenever a Dillian Whyte PPV is a fortnite or less away he is a domestic level plodder.

The other 46-48 weeks of the year he is World class.

[mickey1975]

Luke Campbell was never and will never be world class. Loses everytime he steps beyond euro level and has even lost at euro level. He's similar to Josh Kelly.....looks elite at domestic level but struggles when he steps up.

Distance with Loma, split with Linares, dropped Garcia, he’s World class.

[Glass Joe]

Conor Benn give your head a wobble ( world class not quite there yet). What has he done to show he could be world level and don’t say that he beat Formella

Benn like Josh Kelly domestic fighter at the moment with Matchroom hype trying to make push them to be world title fighters PPV (doing their job i suppose)

Benn should really fight the winner of Mckinson - Kongo or Florian. If he fights Avanesyan in the next year or 2 he's gonna get hurt.

[margaret thatcher]

Luke Campbell was never and will never be world class. Loses everytime he steps beyond euro level and has even lost at euro level. He's similar to Josh Kelly.....looks elite at domestic level but struggles when he steps up.

Distance with Loma, split with Linares, dropped Garcia, he’s World class.

a test for world class fighters , lost every time he's faced one though and doesnt really have much of a notable win . he's like a less accomplished jose pedraza maybe.........on the fringes

[world ranked]

You are mistaking world class with elite. If you are top 10 in your division then you are world class. Does not matter if you think the division is weak or terrible compared to previous eras. Have to put it in the context of the current era.

This is a arguement I been making since I became a boxing fan. There's a difference between world class and elite. Perfect example is Canelo vs Callum Smith.

[rio]

Luke Campbell was never and will never be world class. Loses everytime he steps beyond euro level and has even lost at euro level. He's similar to Josh Kelly.....looks elite at domestic level but struggles when he steps up.

Distance with Loma, split with Linares, dropped Garcia, he’s World class.

Yes he lost all 3 fights convincingly. How does losing make you world class. To be world class you have to beat someone world class unless you are applying the Paul smith logic.

[Fightnight Scores]

This is a arguement I been making since I became a boxing fan. There's a difference between world class and elite. Perfect example is Canelo vs Callum Smith.

This is a valid point. Despite it being subjective, it's also got to be decided on relative to the standard of the division.
If someone is "world class" it must mean at a level to challenge for and obtain a world title. The fact there are various world titles makes this level easier to accomplish.

If there was only 1 world title and talking about capability to challenge or be in the top 10 of a single ranking structure it becomes much harder and to be a challenger in the top 2,3,4 contenders that would be elite level.

There was a time around 10 years ago when there were I think it was 7 British world champions! Fighters like Enzo Mac , Gavin Rees, Junior Witter....they got to their titles probably through well being managed. Were they really world class?

[Boxerbeetle]

I think of elite as being P4P top 5-10, and world level as being the consensus top 4 or 5 fighters in each division.

Just being in the top 10 of a random rankings body, or just managing to hear the final bell in a losing world title challenge, isn’t enough for me, otherwise you end up with guys like Martin Murray or John Ryder being called world class, which is far too generous imo.

[orbtastic]

Historically, what about someone like Alan Rudkin?

[garethhop]

To clarify on Connor Benn, I feel like he will become fringe world class, not that he is!

As I said, it's entirely subjective, but an interesting debate.

My own classifcation of world class is that they could go against anyone in their division (outside of the top p4p fighters) and you give them a very good chance of being able to win the fight.

I could apply that to the four fighters I put in the top bracket (and possibly Callum Smith too on review) but probably no one else with any confidence.

[Fightnight Scores]

I think of elite as being P4P top 5-10, and world level as being the consensus top 4 or 5 fighters in each division.

Just being in the top 10 of a random rankings body, or just managing to hear the final bell in a losing world title challenge, isn’t enough for me, otherwise you end up with guys like Martin Murray or John Ryder being called world class, which is far too generous imo.

Sounds the most logical case put forward

[rio]

I think of elite as being P4P top 5-10, and world level as being the consensus top 4 or 5 fighters in each division.

Just being in the top 10 of a random rankings body, or just managing to hear the final bell in a losing world title challenge, isn’t enough for me, otherwise you end up with guys like Martin Murray or John Ryder being called world class, which is far too generous imo.

Sounds the most logical case put forward

Very well put. I agree with that. Dont think anyone not associated with Campbell/Matchroom has ever had him top 5 in the lightweight division.