Jose Luis Ramierez v. Alexis Arguello - who you think won?

ferocity · Post by **ferocity** » 09 Jul 2006, 22:21

I watched this fight thinking it was close at first then Ramierez pulling away and knocking do.n Arguello and finishing strong in the last round, the announcers felt Ramierz won and i aggree but the decision went to Arguello. Those who remember this fight, who do you think won the fight? And where does Ramierez rank in list of great Mexican fighters?

el tigre del sur · Post by **el tigre del sur** » 09 Jul 2006, 23:52

I always enjoy watching both these guys. Haven't seen enough of Ramirez to make a call on him compared to Sanchez, Chavez, etc. but the comeback in the 3rd round war against Rosario was brilliant.
I had the Arguello fight a draw 95-95, even with the 6th round Arguello knockdown. I thought the last rounds were close except for the 10th and gave the 7-9th to Alexis. I think Arguello was definitely surprised by Ramirez and can see how someone might have given Jose Luis a close decision. This was Arguello's 3rd fight at lightweight and after losing to Vilomar Fernandez previously he might have wondered whether he still retained his power stepping up to 135.

dalek · Post by **dalek** » 10 Jul 2006, 04:43

i watched this recently and had ramirez winning 96-93,6-4 in rounds plus the knockdown.

el tigre del sur · Post by **el tigre del sur** » 10 Jul 2006, 13:51

Has anyone here seen the Ramirez v Ray Mancini bout in '81? If so, please provide details. I imagine it would have been a good scrap with Mancini coming on strong as he does.

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 10 Jul 2006, 15:17

That might have been Ray's best fight. He was fighting in Warren Ohio where he had a huge following which seemed to totally fire him up. I think Ohio must really back their guys because you would be hard pressed to find a fighter who had that kind of poularity in their own backyard.

I expected the fight to be closer, but with Ray's agressive style Ramerez never seemed to be able to set himself. The only explanation I have is that the fight favored Mancini stylistically and the fact that he was fired up fighting before his own fans. He just seemed to be totally on that day.

el tigre del sur · Post by **el tigre del sur** » 10 Jul 2006, 16:04

kick asner wrote:That might have been Ray's best fight. He was fighting in Warren Ohio where he had a huge following which seemed to totally fire him up. I think Ohio must really back their guys because you would be hard pressed to find a fighter who had that kind of poularity in their own backyard.

I expected the fight to be closer, but with Ray's agressive style Ramerez never seemed to be able to set himself. The only explanation I have is that the fight favored Mancini stylistically and the fact that he was fired up fighting before his own fans. He just seemed to be totally on that day.

Nice one, thanks. I love Mancini's style and he was in some great fights in the early 80's. Ramirez has been in plenty of great bouts too.

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 10 Jul 2006, 16:36

Much to his credit Ramirez came back nicely after that loss. Went on a win streak and beat some excellent fighters along the way. Even won a couple of titles. Did enough to be considered an all time great. Very underated fighter. Would have been an interesting rematch against Mancini. Especially if it would have been held in Ramirez's backyard the second time around. I think Ramirez would have used a different strategy in a second fight and maybe have turned the tables.

Sort of interesting, after their fight Mancini appeared to be the one headed for greatness and instead it ended up being Ramirez.

ferocity · Post by **ferocity** » 11 Jul 2006, 01:14

Great info by all, thanks.
First fight I seen of Ramierez was his fight with Chavez and i didnt think much of Ramierez. Untill awhile back sombody was talking about him and i thought i may have to see his older fights. And man, Ramierez was a good fighter, his fight with Edwards really impressed me, then i seen his war with Rosario awsome fight, the guy was a really good fighter, and a south paw, we don't see many top south paw fighters from Mexico. In the Ramierez v. Arguello fight i was thinking during the fight ok, now Arguello is going to ko Rameirez but he never did. But this was a good fight, Arguello had his few moments but i felt Ramierez should have gotten the decision but good fight. Really surprised me that Ramierez knocked down Arguello.

el tigre del sur · Post by **el tigre del sur** » 11 Jul 2006, 05:31

ferocity wrote:Really surprised me that Ramierez knocked down Arguello.

Surprised Arguello too! I think in the Chavez fight they were both very good friends who sparred each other and Julio didn't want the fight because of that. You can tell when he's easily winning that he doesn't go in for the kill like he used to.
I don't normally enjoy watching southpaws (Hagler, Frazier are obvious exceptions) but Ramirez is always entertaining and a highly skilled, if under-rated boxer.

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 11 Jul 2006, 20:02

el tigre del sur wrote:
ferocity wrote:Really surprised me that Ramierez knocked down Arguello.
Surprised Arguello too! I think in the Chavez fight they were both very good friends who sparred each other and Julio didn't want the fight because of that. You can tell when he's easily winning that he doesn't go in for the kill like he used to.
I don't normally enjoy watching southpaws (Hagler, Frazier are obvious exceptions) but Ramirez is always entertaining and a highly skilled, if under-rated boxer.

Frazier fought right handed. It was kind of deceiving because his left hand was the better of the two hands. Alot of times when a guy fights orthadox and his left is his best weapon he has converted but I am not totally sure that was the case with Frazier.

el tigre del sur · Post by **el tigre del sur** » 12 Jul 2006, 00:13

kick asner wrote: Frazier fought right handed. It was kind of deceiving because his left hand was the better of the two hands. Alot of times when a guy fights orthadox and his left is his best weapon he has converted but I am not totally sure that was the case with Frazier.

You're right - I tend to think of Joe as a southpaw because he threw that left hook with such authority. He's almost straight on as he comes at you with his arms crossed-over in defence (not always an effective defence mind).