The great non champions

[Onetimeonly]

Newsboy brown is another truly great one.

[AntonioMartin]

Fair enough, but you forgot all of the great ones.

Well, I did forget Jim Johnson and Fireman Jim Flynn on the original post too....

That's the thing about this thread, though....trying to bring out the non champion legends, the fighters that either beat a world champ or two (or three) or had many chances for a title and were oh so close or who became household names without being champs, the "great non-champions" so to speak.

And, I heard Jimmy Bivins was also a great one (Hall of Famer).

Bivins, burley, Holman Williams, packet McFarland, wills, Jeanette, McVey, Driscoll, stribling, Mina, Mike gibbons, Darcy, Booker, all fit the bill along with Langford as being clearly superior to anyone you listed.

Also Mexican Joe Rivers...he dropped Ad Wolgast in a double knockdown and the ref helped Wolgast up and counted Rivers out! Today that would have caused a major racism outcry and the fight be declared a NC for sure and then an immediate rematch. But this was back in the days when the era portrayed in "Gunsmoke" was not very far back and so things were how they were (similar of course to the thing they did drawing the color line against Black fighters..which even Black fighters themselves did!)

Tom Sharkey also would have been a world champ in another era and he indeed was in the cowboy era...

I read the book about Stribling, such a shame but he seemed a good man and was a great fighter.

You mean Packy McFarland??

And let's not forget Segundo Mercado...he was robbed in his first fight with Bernard Hopkins and dropped him twice....he was robbed at home of being Ecuador's first ever world champion which to me was and is quite puzzling....

[Ambling Alp II]

Tom Sharkey was the champion in the cowboy era? What do you mean by this?

[AntonioMartin]

Tom Sharkey was the champion in the cowboy era? What do you mean by this?

Oh no! I see my mistake...I meant to say he was from that era.

[Onetimeonly]

How did you forget all the actually great fighters? Why not just say the best of the era you're familiar with? Anyway, carry on.

[AntonioMartin]

How did you forget all the actually great fighters? Why not just say the best of the era you're familiar with? Anyway, carry on.

It's impossible for any brain to have all the names.....

[klompton]

Also Mexican Joe Rivers...he dropped Ad Wolgast in a double knockdown and the ref helped Wolgast up and counted Rivers out! Today that would have caused a major racism outcry and the fight be declared a NC for sure and then an immediate rematch. But this was back in the days when the era portrayed in "Gunsmoke" was not very far back and so things were how they were (similar of course to the thing they did drawing the color line against Black fighters..which even Black fighters themselves did!)

Ridiculous. The ref made the right call. Wolgast was giving Rivers a body beating and knocked him down. When he did his momentum carried him forward and he fell, his groin landing on Rivers knee. Rivers never even threw much less landed a punch during that exchange. The ref was correct in assisting Wolgast up and continuing the count. The referee, Jack Welsh, had refereed numerous fights featuring black fighters, mexican fighters, etc. Maybe you should get a clue before throwing around accusations of racism.

[Onetimeonly]

How did you forget all the actually great fighters? Why not just say the best of the era you're familiar with? Anyway, carry on.

It's impossible for any brain to have all the names.....

You have zero.

[AntonioMartin]

Also Mexican Joe Rivers...he dropped Ad Wolgast in a double knockdown and the ref helped Wolgast up and counted Rivers out! Today that would have caused a major racism outcry and the fight be declared a NC for sure and then an immediate rematch. But this was back in the days when the era portrayed in "Gunsmoke" was not very far back and so things were how they were (similar of course to the thing they did drawing the color line against Black fighters..which even Black fighters themselves did!)

Ridiculous. The ref made the right call. Wolgast was giving Rivers a body beating and knocked him down. When he did his momentum carried him forward and he fell, his groin landing on Rivers knee. Rivers never even threw much less landed a punch during that exchange. The ref was correct in assisting Wolgast up and continuing the count. The referee, Jack Welsh, had refereed numerous fights featuring black fighters, mexican fighters, etc. Maybe you should get a clue before throwing around accusations of racism.

Im just quoting Harry Mullan's boxing encyclopedia here. The book says it happened that way, so I believed what I read. Years ago, Ring en Espanol had the same narration of the fight. Mind you, Mullan's book is from the same era as Ring en Espanol but in English.......maybe we know more about what happened now but in this case, Im just a messenger, don't shoot me!

[AntonioMartin]

How did you forget all the actually great fighters? Why not just say the best of the era you're familiar with? Anyway, carry on.

It's impossible for any brain to have all the names.....

You have zero.

Funny how the ones who have less constructive comments in the conversation are the ones who always say "zero". Because you cannot write anything constructive, you are on my ignore list.

[AntonioMartin]

Nino Valdes was a top operator in the 50s, but he always seemed to fall short at the final hurdle before earning his title shot...

The Frank Fletcher of his era...

[Onetimeonly]

It's impossible for any brain to have all the names.....

You have zero.

Funny how the ones who have less constructive comments in the conversation are the ones who always say "zero". Because you cannot write anything constructive, you are on my ignore list.

Lol, bye honey bunny.. I listed great fighters that never won a title, you did not. Now you're butt hurt. Typical.

[elmersalsa]

Lew Feldman was a very good non-champion.

Federico Thompson and Gaspar Ortega were exceptional and excellent welterweights.

Same with Florentino Fernandez at middleweight. He stopped Jose "Chegui" Torres.

[elmersalsa]

Gil Turner was a sensational welterweight contender. His fight with the great champ Kid Gavilan of Cuba for the World Welterweight Championship is worth watching. What a fight! I think it was Gavilan's greatest win. He stopped Turner in the 12th round.

The fight with Gavilan took a lot out of Turner. He was not the same boxer after that shellacking. I think the referee waited too long to stop the fight.

[elmersalsa]

Since we are in this thread, let's select the top 50 greatest boxers that never won a world championship.

I will start, first:

1. Sam Langford

Who should be #2? Charley Burley? Or someone else?

[elmersalsa]

Pedro Montañez and Cocoa Kid were great fighters that never won a world title.

[elmersalsa]

Top 50 so far by boxrec posters:

1. Sam Langford
2. Charley Burley

#3?

[AntonioMartin]

Pedro Montañez and Cocoa Kid were great fighters that never won a world title.

Thats true...I actually visited Pedro at his home when I was a kid..an amazing man!

[elmersalsa]

Pedro Montañez and Cocoa Kid were great fighters that never won a world title.

Thats true...I actually visited Pedro at his home when I was a kid..an amazing man!

Montañez was one of Puerto Rico's finest. Too bad that he did not win a world crown.

[AntonioMartin]

Pedro Montañez and Cocoa Kid were great fighters that never won a world title.

Thats true...I actually visited Pedro at his home when I was a kid..an amazing man!

Montañez was one of Puerto Rico's finest. Too bad that he did not win a world crown.

Yeah and I heard his title loss to Ambers was quite controversial...according to many, he got robbed.

I used to live in Cayey, his hometown.

[margaret thatcher]

Duane Bobick

[AntonioMartin]

Top 50 so far by boxrec posters:

1. Sam Langford
2. Charley Burley

#3?

Hmnn...Jimmy Bivins??? Holman Williams?? Maybe???

[AntonioMartin]

Duane Bobick

[Djanders44]

It really depends on how you define "Champion." If we're talking about non-Lineal Champions, I could easily come up with 50 names, off the top of my head, in the Heavyweight Division alone. If we're talking any kind of "World" Champion, then the list gets pretty short, at least in my head it does. There have always been other "World Championship" Claimants. Even Sam Langford had a "World" Championship belt.

[Thunder and Lightning]

The 50s heavyweights were quite good like Eddie Machen, Zora Folley and Cleveland Williams.