Welterweights: Thomas Hearns vs Felix "Tito" Trinidad

[elmersalsa]

A fight at 154lbs, The Motor City Cobra stops Tito. Hearns was at his absolute peak at 154lbs in 1984.

At welterweight though, Hearns was too frailed. He did not had sturdy legs like in 154lbs. I see Tito to have a better chance to win here at welterweight than at 154lbs.

Does Hearns wins no matter the weight class?
Does Tito could find range and hit Hearns with a left hook? Or will he be intimidated by Hearns just like Pipino Cuevas did?

Tito gets stronger as the fight wears on. Especially, when he used to get knocked down, he was very dangerous later on. His will and determination puts him in the fight.

But, if he gets dropped early by Hearns, is it all over? Or does Tito stops Hearns later about the 13th? It seems to me that after the 6th round, Hearns did not had that punching power. I have never seen him stop somebody late in a fight. Is it the longer the fight, the better for Tito?

I want to see your analysis. Is a great matchup at 147lbs.

[gilgamesh]

Hearns would actually make a one sided fight of this. He'd outbox Tito every step of the way, and probably eventually knock him out. It's an interesting fight on paper, but I don't think Tito would do much at all here. He'd just get his ass kicked.

[elmersalsa]

Hearns would actually make a one sided fight of this. He'd outbox Tito every step of the way, and probably eventually knock him out. It's an interesting fight on paper, but I don't think Tito would do much at all here. He'd just get his ass kicked.

That's the way I see it, but if Randy Shileds lasted 12 with The Hitman, why not Tito? I know that Hearns was by far the better fighter. He was more versatile. I think the key of this fight is Hearns' jab. How could Tito cope with that? If Oscar De LaHoya and Winky Wright beat him with the jab only. And Hearns' jab was better than both if them guys put together.

I think if Hearns ain't stopping Tito in the first 5 rounds, Tito got a chance, but Hearns was much more versatile and win by decision IF, a big IF, Tommy does not get careless and gets a left hook by Tito just like Sugar Ray did.

The ONLY WAY Tito wins this fight in my view is that he gotta be on top of Tommy from the beginning. He gotta be very aggressive. But, the problem with Tito is that he is a slow starter and reacts in a hurry after his daddy slaps him in the face after a suffering a knockdown.

Can he survive a knockdown by Hearns and stil win? Or as soon he drops to the canvas is all over for him?

[Seamus]

I'd make Hearns the clear favorite here, but you just can't write off a HOF'er with the punching power of Trinidad. If Hearns shows a little patience and respect and works behind a busy jab, he'll get a late stoppage or wide decision. If the Hitman lands a big punch and goes for an early kill and get's caught with Tito's left, he's got serious problems.

[gilgamesh]

I'd make Hearns the clear favorite here, but you just can't write off a HOF'er with the punching power of Trinidad. If Hearns shows a little patience and respect and works behind a busy jab, he'll get a late stoppage or wide decision. If the Hitman lands a big punch and goes for an early kill and get's caught with Tito's left, he's got serious problems.

If he dropped Tito, and went for the kill he'd catch a shot to the balls. 100% guaranteed.

[DrDuke]

Hearns would either outbox Trinidad to a comfortable decision or stop him later on.

[scorpio83]

The Hitman would out-box Tito behind his great left jabs and combinations to either take a decision or knocks him out in the late round after nailing Tito with a big right hand.

[elmersalsa]

Thomas Hearns' record suggests that he was not a great KO puncher after round 6.

I think Tito has a chance after round 6 if Hearns get careless.

[Ambling Alp II]

I remember we went through a few years ago regarding Hearns, and it turned out that you didn't understand basic math.

Anyway, there is virtually no way that Trinidad wins this outside of terrible officiating.

[elmersalsa]

I remember we went through a few years ago regarding Hearns, and it turned out that you didn't understand basic math.

Anyway, there is virtually no way that Trinidad wins this outside of terrible officiating.

Everyone got a criteria.
.

[Ambling Alp II]

I remember that thread. You didn't understand the math to figure out ko percentages. A few people tried to explain it to you. You kept saying you had your "own criteria", which doesn't make any sense.

[elmersalsa]

I remember that thread. You didn't understand the math to figure out ko percentages. A few people tried to explain it to you. You kept saying you had your "own criteria", which doesn't make any sense.

It made sense to me. Different strokes for different folks. You got it?

Still, by your own criteria, Thomas Hearns' KOpct after round 6 is low anyway. So what's the point?

[Ambling Alp II]

It does make sense because you don't understand the word criteria and you didn't know how to figure out ko %s.
To figure out the ko% for someone after 6 rounds (whcih you tried to do in thread a while back) you calculated it wrong. It's not arguable.
Hearns had 9 stoppages in 28 fights that went more than 6 rounds. that is a Ko% of 32.1% in fights that go more than 6 rounds. That is not low.
Trinidad had 4 stoppages in 13 fights that went more than 6 rounds. That comes out to about 30.8%.
Hearns had a higher KO% after 6 rounds than Trinidad.

Part of your problem is that don't understand what the word criteria means. An example of criteria would for example how to do rate a fighter? One person's criteria might be simply how good they looked on film. another person might go just on win/loss record. Another might go by how many Hall of Famers they beat. Those are different kinds of criteria.

However when figuring out math problems like this, it isn't a question of criteria. It's a question of using math correctly. You used it incorrectly before because you had calculated it wrong.

Think of it this way. In baseball, to figure out batting average you take the amount of hits divided by the amount of at bats. 1 hit in 4 at bats gives you a batting average of .250. This isn't "criteria". This how you do it. Same with figuring out Ko% after 6 rounds.

[elmersalsa]

It does make sense because you don't understand the word criteria and you didn't know how to figure out ko %s.
To figure out the ko% for someone after 6 rounds (whcih you tried to do in thread a while back) you calculated it wrong. It's not arguable.
Hearns had 9 stoppages in 28 fights that went more than 6 rounds. that is a Ko% of 32.1% in fights that go more than 6 rounds. That is not low.
Trinidad had 4 stoppages in 13 fights that went more than 6 rounds. That comes out to about 30.8%.
Hearns had a higher KO% after 6 rounds than Trinidad.

Part of your problem is that don't understand what the word criteria means. An example of criteria would for example how to do rate a fighter? One person's criteria might be simply how good they looked on film. another person might go just on win/loss record. Another might go by how many Hall of Famers they beat. Those are different kinds of criteria.

However when figuring out math problems like this, it isn't a question of criteria. It's a question of using math correctly. You used it incorrectly before because you had calculated it wrong.

Think of it this way. In baseball, to figure out batting average you take the amount of hits divided by the amount of at bats. 1 hit in 4 at bats gives you a batting average of .250. This isn't "criteria". This how you do it. Same with figuring out Ko% after 6 rounds.

32.1% is low. You contradicted yourself about criteria.

[Ambling Alp II]

Actually 32.1% is not low. Usually when a fight is not over after 6 rounds, it usually goes the distance.
Trinidad's himself had a lower % than Hearns: just 30.8.

A couple of other guys to compare to:
Ike Quartey (contemporary of Trinidad's) was just 28.6%
Here is a guy that is even lower: Roberto Duran, who of course was a contemporary of Hearns:
Duran's was only 27.6%.

[elmersalsa]

Actually 32.1% is not low. Usually when a fight is not over after 6 rounds, it usually goes the distance.
Trinidad's himself had a lower % than Hearns: just 30.8.

A couple of other guys to compare to:
Ike Quartey (contemporary of Trinidad's) was just 28.6%
Here is a guy that is even lower: Roberto Duran, who of course was a contemporary of Hearns:
Duran's was only 27.6%.

Still low. It gotta be at least 60% or better.

[Ambling Alp II]

At least 60%?
Joe Louis was 42.8. Marciano was exactly 60% and he is the highest fighter that I have found so far.

[elmersalsa]

At least 60%?
Joe Louis was 42.8. Marciano was exactly 60% and he is the highest fighter that I have found so far.

There you go! That means that the great Rocky Marciano could take you out in any round. Meanwhile, the great Thomas Hearns power after the 6th fades. Ask Luigi Minchillo for example.

[Ambling Alp II]

There I go?
I have again proved you wrong and you come back with that?
Hearns actually has a higher % after 6 than most fighters.

You yourself said it would be dangerous for Hearns against if it went several rounds. How? Trinidad's has a lower % than Hearns! If you really think the KO% after 6 rounds is so important, then why would it be dangerous for Hearns when Trinidad's % is even lower?
With your own theory, Triinidad's power fades even more. So why would it be so dangerous for Hearns?

[elmersalsa]

There I go?
I have again proved you wrong and you come back with that?
Hearns actually has a higher % after 6 than most fighters.

You yourself said it would be dangerous for Hearns against if it went several rounds. How? Trinidad's has a lower % than Hearns! If you really think the KO% after 6 rounds is so important, then why would it be dangerous for Hearns when Trinidad's % is even lower?
With your own theory, Triinidad's power fades even more. So why would it be so dangerous for Hearns?

Tito has a chance after 6 rounds. He gets stronger as the fight goes along. Hearns gets weaker. Anyway, even at that I'll pick The Hitman because he was in another different level than Tito. You got it?

[Ambling Alp II]

But that is the point elmer, Trinidad doesn't get stronger as the fight goes on. Trinidad's KO% after 6 rounds (which you think is a such a big deal) is lower than Hearns.

[elmersalsa]

But that is the point elmer, Trinidad doesn't get stronger as the fight goes on. Trinidad's KO% after 6 rounds (which you think is a such a big deal) is lower than Hearns.

Hearns got much more fights.

I have seen Thomas Hearns fight a lot of times. And if a boxer can last the first 5 rounds, then he got a tendency of getting weaker as the rounds go by. Especially, at welterweight. That is why I am saying That Tito got the best chance to beat Hearns at 147 and pass the the 5th round. Hearns' legs at 147lbs were a liability along with his chin.

[Ambling Alp II]

I realize that Hearns had more fights, that is why I was going by %. I know math is something you don't understqnd, but it is true.

Hearns was stopped only once in his entire career after the third round. That was against Ray Leonard, and even then he lasted until the 14 round. The chances of Trinidad scoring a late round k0o is remote.

OK, I have had enough fun playing with you. Keep moving the goals posts. I'm moving on.

[elmersalsa]

I realize that Hearns had more fights, that is why I was going by %. I know math is something you don't understqnd, but it is true.

Hearns was stopped only once in his entire career after the third round. That was against Ray Leonard, and even then he lasted until the 14 round. The chances of Trinidad scoring a late round k0o is remote.

OK, I have had enough fun playing with you. Keep moving the goals posts. I'm moving on.

You better move on.

You was getting tiresome and you were going anywhere either.

[Crease]

The Hitman...
There wouldn't be too many who could stand against him at Light Middleweight.