When America loses the Welterweight division it is officially game over for USA in pro boxing?.

[Enlightened-One]

There are a lot of Top fighters who are American in every way. By birth, and by where they reside.

Not when the source you are using is their Boxrec profile. Which is what EO was using as his source. I doubt he's taken time personally ask them all.

Is Deontay Wilder an American citizen?

[Goodz]

Cmon man don't try and deny that about 80% of of USA's BEST fighters over recent years have been centred around one division.

According to BoxRec’s current top 100 pound-for-pound ratings, it contains the names of 36 American fighters born on US soil, and 75% of them aren’t welterweights.

According to BoxRec’s top 100 greatest of all time American fighters (pound-for-pound-ratings), only 23% of the competitors it lists are classed as welterweights.

Who cares about the lower down bums. I'm talking about USA's BEST fighters. 4 of the top 7 are Welterweights

In recent times all the focus on USA boxing has been around its welterweights. Floyd Mayweather, Shane Mosley, Terence Crawford, Errol Spence, Danny Garcia, Shawn Porter, Timothy Bradley, Keith Thurman, Mikey Garcia, Devon Alexander, Zab Judah, Paulie Malignaggi, Luiz Collazo, Brandon Rios etc

It has CLEARLY been USAs best division by far.

That's refelected in LDBC channels because 90% of the time all they talk about is 147.

Welterweight will be the last division to fall. But I expect it to fall like the rest eventually

[oogiebe]

Cmon man don't try and deny that about 80% of of USA's BEST fighters over recent years have been centred around one division.

According to BoxRec’s current top 100 pound-for-pound ratings, it contains the names of 36 American fighters born on US soil, and 75% of them aren’t welterweights.

According to BoxRec’s top 100 greatest of all time American fighters (pound-for-pound-ratings), only 23% of the competitors it lists are classed as welterweights.

Who cares about the lower down bums. I'm talking about USA's BEST fighters. 4 of the top 7 are Welterweights

In recent times all the focus on USA boxing has been around its welterweights. Floyd Mayweather, Shane Mosley, Terence Crawford, Errol Spence, Danny Garcia, Shawn Porter, Timothy Bradley, Keith Thurman, Mikey Garcia, Devon Alexander, Zab Judah, Paulie Malignaggi, Luiz Collazo, Brandon Rios etc

It has CLEARLY been USAs best division by far.

That's refelected in LDBC channels because 90% of the time all they talk about is 147.

Welterweight will be the last division to fall. But I expect it to fall like the rest eventually

Pointless thread. but entertaining.

[The Gratest]

I initially provided a list of 52 fighters (included in BoxRec's top 100 pound-for-pound ratings) that permanently reside in the US. 36 of the names I listed were also born there too.

You then tried to pretend that I'd misunderstood the title of the thread, so I provided a breakdown of the 52 fighters, by supplying two separate lists: the first one listing the names of 36 fighters that were born in the US; with the second one detailing the remaining 16 immigrants that permanently reside there.

But you would already know that if you reviewed the info. contained in my posts.

What more do you want? You already quoted my posts that answered your questions. But you keep asking the same questions.

Why do you keep on insisting it to be about residing in the US when it has been confirmed it's not to do with that?
Again you decide not to include other international fighters in order to hide your initial mistake.

I didn’t make a mistake to hide. You didn’t read my words.

We’ll get there eventually.

Is Deontay Wilder an American?

Just answer that one simple question.

He's an american. 1 of only 3 americans in The Ring top 10 rankings at HW.

My turn now.

If you did not misunderstand the initial question, why did you originally try to lump non-american fighters in with americans based on where they resided rather than their actual nationality?

Is Viktor Postol an american?

[The Gratest]

There are a lot of Top fighters who are American in every way. By birth, and by where they reside.

Not when the source you are using is their Boxrec profile. Which is what EO was using as his source. I doubt he's taken time personally ask them all.

Is Deontay Wilder an American citizen?

Calm down kid, don't piddle your pants, I was answering back in post order.

[oogiebe]

[The Gratest]

I think the OP clarified that it was the fighter's nationality rather than place of residence he was referring to when he used Loma as an example. I think the thread title is just misleading a bit, which is understandable.
Is this correct OP/Goodz?

Yes correct

[Enlightened-One]

Who cares about the lower down bums. I'm talking about USA's BEST fighters.

I listed fighters included in BoxRec's top 100 current pound-for-pound ratings. None of which can be considered bums.

If you feel any of the names I listed are "bums", then explain your reasoning.

In recent times all the focus on USA boxing has been around its welterweights.

You're referring to media focus. That's not what we're discussing. And besides, it far too easy to name pound-for-pounders for the last decade or so or recent Hall-of-Fame inductees from the US that weren't welterweights.

That's refelected in LDBC channels because 90% of the time all they talk about is 147.

That sentence doesn't mean a damn thing to me!

I'm assuming you deem opinions expressed by the LDBC channels as being more important than real-world historical facts.

Welterweight will be the last division to fall. But I expect it to fall like the rest eventually

The vast majority of the Americans included in the BoxRec top 100 pound-for-pound list don't compete at 147lbs.

[Enlightened-One]

Is Deontay Wilder an American?

Just answer that one simple question.

He's an american.

Then I have already listed the names of 36 fighters included in BoxRec's top 100 pound-for-pound rankings that share the same country of birth and country of residence as Deontay Wilder (i.e. men that were born, AND raised AND resides ALL their LIVES on US shores).

Is Erislandy Lara an American citizen?

[gilgamesh]

There are a lot of Top fighters who are American in every way. By birth, and by where they reside.

Not when the source you are using is their Boxrec profile. Which is what EO was using as his source. I doubt he's taken time personally ask them all.

It's pretty easy to tell a born and raised American from an International Fighter who has relocated here.

I doubt any members of the Media have gathered the birth certificates of all top fighters

[Crease]

It will NEVER be "game over" for the United States in the sport of boxing. They have too much talent in their country and top trainers and gyms to harness it... There will always be another great fighter coming up... And another great fighter coming behind him...

The only real issues are weight classes and timing - that's when it comes down to the top, top fights...

[gilgamesh]

Is Deontay Wilder an American?

Just answer that one simple question.

He's an american.

Then I have already listed the names of 36 fighters included in BoxRec's top 100 pound-for-pound rankings that share the same country of birth and country of residence as Deontay Wilder (i.e. men that were born, AND raised AND resides ALL their LIVES on US shores).

Is Erislandy Lara an American citizen?

Probably, but Lara is Cuban.

[oogiebe]

He's an american.

Then I have already listed the names of 36 fighters included in BoxRec's top 100 pound-for-pound rankings that share the same country of birth and country of residence as Deontay Wilder (i.e. men that were born, AND raised AND resides ALL their LIVES on US shores).

Is Erislandy Lara an American citizen?

Probably, but Lara is Cuban.

Another thread gone awry.

[The Gratest]

Is Deontay Wilder an American?

Just answer that one simple question.

He's an american.

Then I have already listed the names of 36 fighters included in BoxRec's top 100 pound-for-pound rankings that share the same country of birth and country of residence as Deontay Wilder (i.e. men that were born, AND raised AND resides ALL their LIVES on US shores).

Is Erislandy Lara an American citizen?

The fact that you have ignored answering both of my questions shows that you now know you were wrong. If not, please answer then kiddo.

[Enlightened-One]

He's an american.

Then I have already listed the names of 36 fighters included in BoxRec's top 100 pound-for-pound rankings that share the same country of birth and country of residence as Deontay Wilder (i.e. men that were born, AND raised AND resides ALL their LIVES on US shores).

Is Erislandy Lara an American citizen?

Probably, but Lara is Cuban.

He is an American citizen (acquired it four years ago) and he permanently resides in the US.

Even if we excluded the foregin fighters that have chosen to permanently reside in America (that are in a similar situation to Lara), there are still 36 fighters included in BoxRec's top 100 pound-for-pound ratings that share the same background as Deontay Wilder (born and raised American).

And the vast majority of those 36 fighters don't compete at welterweight.

[gilgamesh]

Then I have already listed the names of 36 fighters included in BoxRec's top 100 pound-for-pound rankings that share the same country of birth and country of residence as Deontay Wilder (i.e. men that were born, AND raised AND resides ALL their LIVES on US shores).

Is Erislandy Lara an American citizen?

Probably, but Lara is Cuban.

Another thread gone awry.

Not really. It's just point scoring over an inconsequential point. EO pointed out several American Born fighters. That should be the focus of his argument because that was the point.

He wasn't wrong about any of that. He's not wrong that Lara is technically an American Citizen too, but he's not thought of as an American Fighter.

[gilgamesh]

Then I have already listed the names of 36 fighters included in BoxRec's top 100 pound-for-pound rankings that share the same country of birth and country of residence as Deontay Wilder (i.e. men that were born, AND raised AND resides ALL their LIVES on US shores).

Is Erislandy Lara an American citizen?

Probably, but Lara is Cuban.

He is an American citizen (acquired it four years ago) and he permanently resides in the US.

Even if we excluded the foregin fighters that have chosen to permanently reside in America (that are in a similar situation to Lara), there are still 36 fighters included in BoxRec's top 100 pound-for-pound ratings that share the same background as Deontay Wilder (born and raised American).

And the vast majority of those 36 fighters don't compete at welterweight.

I get what you're saying, but for the purposes of this discussion the 36 American Born fighters is what you're looking for to make your point. Which you've done well. Don't bother with the International fighters who are now American citizens because it only confuses the argument.

Don't lose focus and argue with me because for the most part I'm on your side here, and I get where you're coming from. I'm just telling you that the 36 American Born fighters is the crux of the point you're wanting to make here, and you've made it just fine.

[Enlightened-One]

Probably, but Lara is Cuban.

He is an American citizen (acquired it four years ago) and he permanently resides in the US.

Even if we excluded the foregin fighters that have chosen to permanently reside in America (that are in a similar situation to Lara), there are still 36 fighters included in BoxRec's top 100 pound-for-pound ratings that share the same background as Deontay Wilder (born and raised American).

And the vast majority of those 36 fighters don't compete at welterweight.

I get what you're saying, but for the purposes of this discussion the 36 American Born fighters is what you're looking for to make your point. Which you've done well. Don't bother with the International fighters who are now American citizens because it only confuses the argument.

Don't lose focus and argue with me because for the most part I'm on your side here, and I get where you're coming from. I'm just telling you that the 36 American Born fighters is the crux of the point you're wanting to make here, and you've made it just fine.

Yeah, I know we're on the same side.

[The Gratest]

Then I have already listed the names of 36 fighters included in BoxRec's top 100 pound-for-pound rankings that share the same country of birth and country of residence as Deontay Wilder (i.e. men that were born, AND raised AND resides ALL their LIVES on US shores).

Is Erislandy Lara an American citizen?

Probably, but Lara is Cuban.

He is an American citizen (acquired it four years ago) and he permanently resides in the US.

Even if we excluded the foregin fighters that have chosen to permanently reside in America (that are in a similar situation to Lara), there are still 36 fighters included in BoxRec's top 100 pound-for-pound ratings that share the same background as Deontay Wilder (born and raised American).

And the vast majority of those 36 fighters don't compete at welterweight.

Kiddo, still waiting for you to answer my questions. Don't be rude now!

Out of interest as well, how long has Viktor Postol been a permanent resident in the US?

[gilgamesh]

Probably, but Lara is Cuban.

He is an American citizen (acquired it four years ago) and he permanently resides in the US.

Even if we excluded the foregin fighters that have chosen to permanently reside in America (that are in a similar situation to Lara), there are still 36 fighters included in BoxRec's top 100 pound-for-pound ratings that share the same background as Deontay Wilder (born and raised American).

And the vast majority of those 36 fighters don't compete at welterweight.

Kiddo, still waiting for you to answer my questions. Don't be rude now!

Out of interest as well, how long has Viktor Postol been a permanent resident in the US?

Now YOU'RE confusing the point. What about the 36 American Born fighters? Focus on that.

Great fighters come from all over the World. It's an International Sport. America is a big place, and it won't be anytime soon that they're providing no significant fighters on the World stage.

You guys are trying to shift the argument to something else because the argument of "It is officially game over for USA in Pro Boxing" has already been beaten.

[The Gratest]

He is an American citizen (acquired it four years ago) and he permanently resides in the US.

Even if we excluded the foregin fighters that have chosen to permanently reside in America (that are in a similar situation to Lara), there are still 36 fighters included in BoxRec's top 100 pound-for-pound ratings that share the same background as Deontay Wilder (born and raised American).

And the vast majority of those 36 fighters don't compete at welterweight.

Kiddo, still waiting for you to answer my questions. Don't be rude now!

Out of interest as well, how long has Viktor Postol been a permanent resident in the US?

Now YOU'RE confusing the point. What about the 36 American Born fighters? Focus on that.

Great fighters come from all over the World. It's an International Sport. America is a big place, and it won't be anytime soon that they're providing no significant fighters on the World stage.

You guys are trying to shift the argument to something else because the argument of "It is officially game over for USA in Pro Boxing" has already been beaten.

Pound for pound is not a boxing division though and is completey subjective.
Surely it would be more accurate basing it on each individual weight division top 10 and champions?

I'm arguing against EO trying to insist that he did not misunderstand the original question (nationality rather than residence) when he clearly did. That's why he's refusing to answer my questions.

[gilgamesh]

Doesn't have to be Pound for Pound. It can be divisional.

The Top Welterweights are Crawford and Spence with Porter and Danny Garcia still in the Top 5 or 6. That's 4 Americans.

Jermell Charlo is #1 at 154. He's American.

Gary Russell is one of the top guys at Featherweight. He's American.

Regis Prograis is a top contender at 140. He's American.

Devin Haney and Gervonta Davis are Top guys at 135. Americans.

Forget Pound for Pound. The argument can't be made that these guys aren't highly touted in their respective weight classes.

[The Gratest]

That's true Gil, the US is very much dominant (belts) in the central weight classes, but not so much at higher weight classes and below Feather.

[gilgamesh]

That's true Gil, the US is very much dominant (belts) in the central weight classes, but not so much at higher weight classes and below Feather.

Historically the US has had a stranglehold on the Heavyweight division. It's only in recent times that the balance of power has shifted to Europe. Which is a good thing I'd say. If one side always dominates it's not truly a World Sport. I'm glad to see European Fighters becoming more and more prominent personally.

Below Featherweight there aren't nearly as many Americans yes because Americans generally don't tend to be that small. There are some, but most Americans just aren't that small. The smallest weight classes tend to be filled with Latino and Asian fighters for the most part, Americans and Europeans are there on occasion though.

[Enlightened-One]

There are 56 legit world titles (i.e. excluding bridgerweight & secondary straps) covering the top 14 weight classes.

Twenty of those belts are held by fighters that are born and bred Americans.

Therefore, 36% of all the available legitimate world titles (with the top-14 weight classes) are currently held by born and bred Americans.

From the secondary titles (within the same 14 divisions), ten of those so-called “champs” are also born and bred Americans.

According to the BoxRec top 100 pound-for-pound ratings, 36 of the fighters listed are born and bred Americans.

Three of The RING’s top-ten pound-for-pounders are born and bred Americans.

From the top 14 weight classes (i.e. junior bantamweight to heavyweight), The RING classifies 53 Americans within their top-ten ratings, which equates to an average of roughly four fighters per division.