The great non champions

[elmersalsa]

And #9 is......?

[elmersalsa]

At #9, it gotta be this guy. Joe Jeannette, no doubt.

[oogiebe]

At #9, it gotta be this guy. Joe Jeannette, no doubt.

You're totally playing by yourself.

[elmersalsa]

Well,

So we got:
1. Sam Langford
2. Charley Burley
3. Packey McFarland
4. Holman Williams
5. Jimmy Bivins
6. "Peerless" Jem Driscoll
7. Lloyd Marshall
8. Peter Jackson
9. Joe Jeannette

[elmersalsa]

At #9, it gotta be this guy. Joe Jeannette, no doubt.

You're totally playing by yourself.

Well, participate. Don't criticize. Participate! Who should be #9?

[elmersalsa]

Well,

So we got:
1. Sam Langford
2. Charley Burley
3. Packey McFarland
4. Holman Williams
5. Jimmy Bivins
6. "Peerless" Jem Driscoll
7. Lloyd Marshall
8. Peter Jackson
9. Joe Jeannette
10. Billy Graham
11. Newsboy Brown

[Onetimeonly]

[oogiebe]

He's having fun playing by himself.

[Onetimeonly]

He's having fun playing by himself.

God knows he plays with himself at the thought of Peter Jackson.

[Cojimar 1946]

Putt aside his victories against Norton in ‘78 and Weaver in ‘79: Holmes beat Ali in ‘80. He got a TKO over the last man to hold the lineal title. No one can legitimately argue that he wasn’t a lineal champ.

Ali no longer had his lineal status when he fought Holmes since he had retired. So no it doesn't make Holmes lineal in any way shape or form.

Moreover Ali was so shot that plenty of heavyweights could have beaten him at that stage. Beating that version of Ali is basically meaningless.

There’s no argument here that Ali was beyond shot. But that isn’t the issue.

Ali was the undisputed champ in early ‘78. He lost to Leon Spinks. The latter was stripped of the WBC title shortly thereafter. He then lost the WBA and lineal title back to Ali in late ‘78.

While Ali announced his retirement in ‘79, he didn’t lose to anybody in the ring until he was knocked out by Holmes in ‘80. It’s absolutely valid to consider this a passing of the lineal title.

This is literally the first time I’ve heard anyone claim that Holmes wasn’t a lineal champion. Frankly, I doubt that you can point to anyone outside this thread who would deny his claim.

When Ali retired he lost his title. So beating him at that stage in no way gives Holmes lineal status. Ali was also totally shot and likely loses to any top 10 heavyweight. If Ali had fought Cobb for example he likely loses badly.

You can dismiss Ali being totally shot but once he retires he loses his status as champion. That's just how it is.

[AntonioMartin]

Oh and Bernard Taylor!

Drew with Eusebio Pedroza for the WBA world title in a war!

That wasn't no war. It was a guy running for his life against a champion that fought like a challenger.

Well, I saw it on you tube and I really enjoyed it tbh.

[AntonioMartin]

László Papp?

Wasn't he undefeated???

[elmersalsa]

And why are you laughing?

[Onetimeonly]

And why are you laughing?

You ask for participation and still put Peter Jackson way above where he belongs. I only read your posts for the humor.

[elmersalsa]

And why are you laughing?

You ask for participation and still put Peter Jackson way above where he belongs. I only read your posts for the humor.

It's just a matter of opinion. Not the absolute truth.

[Onetimeonly]

And why are you laughing?

You ask for participation and still put Peter Jackson way above where he belongs. I only read your posts for the humor.

It's just a matter of opinion. Not the absolute truth.

It's just a matter of your opinion that matters. I'm just always astounded by your bias, no harm, no foul. Your own write up of Jackson shows why he's out of place on the list. Nobody asked for a list anyway, carry on.

[elmersalsa]

You ask for participation and still put Peter Jackson way above where he belongs. I only read your posts for the humor.

It's just a matter of opinion. Not the absolute truth.

It's just a matter of your opinion that matters. I'm just always astounded by your bias, no harm, no foul. Your own write up of Jackson shows why he's out of place on the list. Nobody asked for a list anyway, carry on.

Well, some people asked for it. You are not the majority. Carry on also.

[elmersalsa]

#12? Here are some boxers:
Harry Wills
Billy Petrolle
Tommy Gibbons
Mike Gibbons
Sam McVeay

Pick your order

[Onetimeonly]

It's just a matter of opinion. Not the absolute truth.

It's just a matter of your opinion that matters. I'm just always astounded by your bias, no harm, no foul. Your own write up of Jackson shows why he's out of place on the list. Nobody asked for a list anyway, carry on.

Well, some people asked for it. You are not the majority. Carry on also.

[elmersalsa]

It's just a matter of your opinion that matters. I'm just always astounded by your bias, no harm, no foul. Your own write up of Jackson shows why he's out of place on the list. Nobody asked for a list anyway, carry on.

Well, some people asked for it. You are not the majority. Carry on also.

[AntonioMartin]

This is the most popular thread I have ever created...I didnt expect it to go on for so long..lol1 Glad I created a good thread!

[margaret thatcher]

you deserve to celebrate my man, buy yourself a big pizza and enjoy

[Onetimeonly]

you deserve to celebrate my man, buy yourself a big pizza and enjoy

Lol, calling it 'a good thread' is up for debate.

[bwu]

László Papp?

Wasn't he undefeated???

As a pro, yes, though he had a few draws.

[bwu]

Ali no longer had his lineal status when he fought Holmes since he had retired. So no it doesn't make Holmes lineal in any way shape or form.

Moreover Ali was so shot that plenty of heavyweights could have beaten him at that stage. Beating that version of Ali is basically meaningless.

There’s no argument here that Ali was beyond shot. But that isn’t the issue.

Ali was the undisputed champ in early ‘78. He lost to Leon Spinks. The latter was stripped of the WBC title shortly thereafter. He then lost the WBA and lineal title back to Ali in late ‘78.

While Ali announced his retirement in ‘79, he didn’t lose to anybody in the ring until he was knocked out by Holmes in ‘80. It’s absolutely valid to consider this a passing of the lineal title.

This is literally the first time I’ve heard anyone claim that Holmes wasn’t a lineal champion. Frankly, I doubt that you can point to anyone outside this thread who would deny his claim.

When Ali retired he lost his title. So beating him at that stage in no way gives Holmes lineal status. Ali was also totally shot and likely loses to any top 10 heavyweight. If Ali had fought Cobb for example he likely loses badly.

You can dismiss Ali being totally shot but once he retires he loses his status as champion. That's just how it is.

So that's just how it is. Explain to me how Holmes, who beat Norton in '78 for the WBC title and Weaver in '79, just before the latter won the WBA title, wasn't a lineal champion. I was being conservative in saying that Holmes didn't cinch the claim until he beat Ali.

Rightly or wrongly, the heavyweight division has a long history of disregarding retirement status when it comes to the lineal title. Jim Corbett announced his retirement and the ensuing "lineage" included Pete Maher, Bob Fitzsimmons and Tom Sharkey all claiming the title. However, when Corbett unretired, everyone recognized him as champ until Fitz knocked him out. Jack Johnson, Ezzard Charles and Joe Frazier all had to deal with folks doubting their positions until they beat the comebacking Jim Jeffries, Joe Louis and (ironically) Muhammad Ali.

You're making the mistake of thinking I agree with these points of view. I'm not saying I think Ali was the champ until '80. I'm saying Holmes was a lineal champ and that victory should've sealed it beyond all question. But you go ahead and tell me just how it is and while you're at it, actually identify someone else who doesn't think Holmes was a lineal champ.