Oleksandr Usyk vs. Joe Joyce - Discussed

[margaret thatcher]

Usyk's promoter Alexander Krassyuk previously told Sky Sports why they deserve a 93 per cent share of the purse in a fight with Joyce: "[WBO president] Paco Valcarcel is a very fair and reasonable man! But the purse split is a matter of mathematics not of anything else.

"The calculation is very simple. Three last declared purses of Usyk plus three last declared purses of Joyce equals the total pot. Usyk's purse divided to the total pot multiplied by 100 per cent equals his percentage."

Joyce's manager Sam Jones previously said: "As for his talk about a 93/7 split, that is clearly ridiculous. We have the utmost respect for the WBO, one of the fairest sanctioning bodies in boxing, and we are sure they will come to a fair and appropriate purse split if the matter does go to purse bids."

Krassyuk replied: "Mathematics cannot be ridiculous."

lol is 93-7 some sort of april fools practice run or something, they cant be serious

[maverick23]

Total bullshit way to work out a purse.

Firstly it takes two to tango and secondly historical purses aren’t necessarily an indicator of current market value.

Usyks stock dropped after Chisora I would say, where as Joyce’s increased significantly after Dubois.

Fighters are at different stages in their career plus we are in the midst of a pandemic .

Joyces last two fights were impacted by CV19, it’s well documented he took a pay cut vs Dubois to get the fight over the line, Wallisch was a last minute ticking over fight so neither reflect market rate I would say

Two of Usyks last 3 fights were against UK cash cows in Chisora and Bellew and the purses were more an indicator of DC and TBs ability to sell PPV rather than Usyks marketability.

Joyce needs to tell WBO / Team Usyk to do one.

Yep. They’re trying to get the WBO to order a 80/20 split but they’re never going to.

I think it will be something like 60/40 in Usyk’s favour.

[Ruthless-RKO]

I would question the numbers you have for Joyce. I’d be surprised if he got £1m for Dubois and amazed if he got £400k/£500k for Jennings/Wallisch respectively.

Yeh, it was just hypothetical, just so I can do some working out..

Although I do remember reading that Joyce received around £400k-£500k for Wallisch..

[maverick23]

I would question the numbers you have for Joyce. I’d be surprised if he got £1m for Dubois and amazed if he got £400k/£500k for Jennings/Wallisch respectively.

Yeh, it was just hypothetical, just so I can do some working out..

Although I do remember reading that Joyce received around £400k-£500k for Wallisch..

I’d still be amazed if that’s right.

[knockout]

WBO rankings :

1. Oleksandr Usyk
2. Joe Joyce
3. Joseph Parker
4. Andy Ruiz, Jr

If JJ removes himself from the mix then that leaves Parker next, assuming he beats Chisora .. Parker would then be subject to the same percentage bulls**, as his last three fights weren’t high profile ( whyte and Joshua fights were earlier). So he would be stupid to accept those terms.

Next is Ruiz .... Ruiz last 3 fights will have netted him a fortune .. so Usyk doesn’t want that split!

No way Joyce and Sam Jones should accept anything less than 70/30

[Ruthless-RKO]

The thing with Usyk is. He doesn’t need an eliminator.

He came up from CW and gets an instant shot at the WBO belt..

He doesn’t NEED to fight JJJ does he?

[knockout]

Well he isn’t getting AJ anytime soon if he has signed a two fight deal with Fury ... so he needs an opponent for the interim

[Cyclops]

Well he isn’t getting AJ anytime soon if he has signed a two fight deal with Fury ... so he needs an opponent for the interim

Joyce is old but he's only a year older than Usyk and when they fought in the World Series Usyk had already had about 300 amateur fights or something. He's an ageing fighter on the decline. He's already picked up injuries before even having a heavyweight fight as he made the transition, and didn't look like a real heavyweight against Chisora. I don't suppose he's scared of Joyce, but it's a fight against a huge guy that's probably going to go the full 12, even if he wins (and I suspect he won't as Joyce seems to have gathered some momentum) as both have excellent chins. Boxers leave a little bit of themselves in the ring in these hard fights. He's probably royally f*cked off that he's got himself to heavyweight and now he's essentially frozen out of the big money fights for at least a year.

Like other people have said, he seems to be throwing some sort of tantrum and Joyce has to at least get paid something for fighting somebody like Usyk. I thought Usyk was cool, but perhaps he has the capacity to be a bellend as much as most other fighters.

[knockout]

Cyclops : I like both fighters and Usyk (and/ or his management) like you say are probably miffed he is WBO number 1 and doesn’t get the AJ massive money fight.

However if we take it back a step , he hasn’t done much at heavy to deserve a number 1 spot really (not the first nor the last tbh ). He is just a beneficiary of the WBOs strange rule on moving up.

Shit alphabet brigade ...

[Cyclops]

Cyclops : I like both fighters and Usyk (and/ or his management) like you say are probably miffed he is WBO number 1 and doesn’t get the AJ massive money fight.

However if we take it back a step , he hasn’t done much at heavy to deserve a number 1 spot really (not the first nor the last tbh ). He is just a beneficiary of the WBOs strange rule on moving up.

Shit alphabet brigade ...

I agree, although Usyk's cruiserweight career was a brave and exciting one, The guy unified and cleared out the division. I suppose that's why his jump to heavyweight feels somewhat underwhelming. Chisora, an ageing gatekeeper, kept him working for the full 12 and took rounds off him. That's not a good look especially considering the last very good cruiserweight to move up and make some noise was Haye, who banjo'd a younger Dereck but sh*t the bed against the genuine big guys: even in winning he was very cautious. Usyk may have looked a million dollars as a heavyweight gold medalist against a bunch of kids and borderline novice super-heavyweights in the WBS but that was a very long time ago. I'm sure he and his team are well aware of that, and how he isn't going to getting any younger anytime soon.

[margaret thatcher]

i thought usyk handled chisora better than whyte did x2, obviously nowhere like fury and haye did, but it's been overblown the 'struggle' that chis gave him. chisora could hardly put a glove on him after the first 2 rounds

i think usyk is still all wrong for joe, he has the speed and movement to outbox him, and the engine to keep it up

[cormack]

the comment from Usyks team are starting to give me the impression they dont want the fight really and are preparing the ground for a refusal based on low ball offers .

I hope to be wrong but ......

as its a fight I want to see.

[maverick23]

the comment from Usyks team are starting to give me the impression they dont want the fight really and are preparing the ground for a refusal based on low ball offers .

I hope to be wrong but ......

as its a fight I want to see.

They’re pushing the WBO to give them a favourable split if purse bids get called. If they’re not happy with the offers they’ve had from FW then I don’t blame them.

[Cyclops]

i thought usyk handled chisora better than whyte did x2, obviously nowhere like fury and haye did, but it's been overblown the 'struggle' that chis gave him. chisora could hardly put a glove on him after the first 2 rounds

It's the most ruffled I've ever seen Usyk, and as a cruiserweight I really really rated him. Because Chisora isn't even a big heavyweight; he bounced Usyk off the ropes with a blocked shot in the 1st I think he was so much stronger, and Usyk's body was bright red early on. I love Chisora but I thought Usyk would batter him. Chisora is top 15 if we're being generous (and I am because I thought he beat Whyte the first time out, but then the fact that Povetkin's shot old ghost KO'd Whyte in 5 shows you how basic Whyte is).

When this ageing version of Usyk faces the elite 6'6+ big boys he's going to have to really make the most out of his creaking frame if he's going to win. And this means avoiding granite giants like Joyce, who will make him work much harder than Chisora did to get the W. This is why I think he'll try and duck him.

[Cyclops]

Double post.

[margaret thatcher]

Will Joe make him work much harder? the work rate wasnt really much vs Dubois or Jennings. Chis for all his limitations comes forward pretty much all fight

[Cyclops]

Will Joe make him work much harder? the work rate wasnt really much vs Dubois or Jennings. Chis for all his limitations comes forward pretty much all fight

He's definitely going to make him work harder.

[margaret thatcher]

I dunno, I think Joe has a slower and more methodical style compared to Chis that may play into Usky's hands more and give him more time to react

[brilo33]

i see usyk wining this fight he is boxer that can go 12 rds like jj but he is a better boxer than jj he wont have his head jabbed of like dd , he is calm and he will box he is a good lateral mover usyk he cause jj problems he hasnt had before , but jj had a great win against dd cant rule him out

[Cyclops]

i see usyk wining this fight he is boxer that can go 12 rds like jj but he is a better boxer than jj he wont have his head jabbed of like dd , he is calm and he will box he is a good lateral mover usyk he cause jj problems he hasnt had before , but jj had a great win against dd cant rule him out

He's faced the same problem before, when he was practically a novice, and Usyk a veteran who'd had hundreds of fights. Now Joyce is a seasoned top amateur and undefeated pro. He'll know what it's like to fight Usyk and will have a gameplan ready.

Joyce cannot be counted out and Usyk doesn't want hard fights before he gets his money fight against the winner of Fury/AJ. The ridiculous split he's demanding to take on a genuine SHW that people still don't really rate reflects this. It's not like he's going for any serious challenges at heavyweight, is it?

[brilo33]

i see usyk wining this fight he is boxer that can go 12 rds like jj but he is a better boxer than jj he wont have his head jabbed of like dd , he is calm and he will box he is a good lateral mover usyk he cause jj problems he hasnt had before , but jj had a great win against dd cant rule him out

He's faced the same problem before, when he was practically a novice, and Usyk a veteran who'd had hundreds of fights. Now Joyce is a seasoned top amateur and undefeated pro. He'll know what it's like to fight Usyk and will have a gameplan ready.

Joyce cannot be counted out and Usyk doesn't want hard fights before he gets his money fight against the winner of Fury/AJ. The ridiculous split he's demanding to take on a genuine SHW that people still don't really rate reflects this. It's not like he's going for any serious challenges at heavyweight, is it?

there amuture fight was a good fight , but how seasoned is jj , i mean dd wasnt a seasoned fighter he was a young kid, this is jj baptism of fire, which he has a great chance of winning but i think he is underdog

[Cyclops]

i see usyk wining this fight he is boxer that can go 12 rds like jj but he is a better boxer than jj he wont have his head jabbed of like dd , he is calm and he will box he is a good lateral mover usyk he cause jj problems he hasnt had before , but jj had a great win against dd cant rule him out

He's faced the same problem before, when he was practically a novice, and Usyk a veteran who'd had hundreds of fights. Now Joyce is a seasoned top amateur and undefeated pro. He'll know what it's like to fight Usyk and will have a gameplan ready.

Joyce cannot be counted out and Usyk doesn't want hard fights before he gets his money fight against the winner of Fury/AJ. The ridiculous split he's demanding to take on a genuine SHW that people still don't really rate reflects this. It's not like he's going for any serious challenges at heavyweight, is it?

there amuture fight was a good fight , but how seasoned is jj , i mean dd wasnt a seasoned fighter he was a young kid, this is jj baptism of fire, which he has a great chance of winning but i think he is underdog

I agree he is the underdog for a multitude of reasons. Usyk should win. But there are variables that are worth pointing out that makes Joyce a live dog. Joyce was underdog against Dubois but in the end won by a combination of a simple plan of moving away from DDD's power hand, riding the shot when it landed, and a relentlessly accurate jab. That was plan A, and it worked so well he didn't really need to get out of second gear. With Usyk he'll probably have to up the tempo and adjust, and I think he's capable of that. Maybe just me, but we'll see.

[brilo33]

.

[brilo33]

He's faced the same problem before, when he was practically a novice, and Usyk a veteran who'd had hundreds of fights. Now Joyce is a seasoned top amateur and undefeated pro. He'll know what it's like to fight Usyk and will have a gameplan ready.

Joyce cannot be counted out and Usyk doesn't want hard fights before he gets his money fight against the winner of Fury/AJ. The ridiculous split he's demanding to take on a genuine SHW that people still don't really rate reflects this. It's not like he's going for any serious challenges at heavyweight, is it?

there amuture fight was a good fight , but how seasoned is jj , i mean dd wasnt a seasoned fighter he was a young kid, this is jj baptism of fire, which he has a great chance of winning but i think he is underdog

I agree he is the underdog for a multitude of reasons. Usyk should win. But there are variables that are worth pointing out that makes Joyce a live dog. Joyce was underdog against Dubois but in the end won by a combination of a simple plan of moving away from DDD's power hand, riding the shot when it landed, and a relentlessly accurate jab. That was plan A, and it worked so well he didn't really need to get out of second gear. With Usyk he'll probably have to up the tempo and adjust, and I think he's capable of that. Maybe just me, but we'll see.

the plus things for me with jj is he is a natural heavy weight he can go the 12rds, can jab also looks like a very powerful jab , he is big cant be bullied pushed around , i think jj will win this fight, i usyk is too old he will gas because for me usyk will have to be on his toes moving for 12 rds and he cant do that at this weight age so he will have to trade i cant see him coming of the victor unless he has his speed which i think is gone
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[Finkel]

the comment from Usyks team are starting to give me the impression they dont want the fight really and are preparing the ground for a refusal based on low ball offers .

I hope to be wrong but ......

as its a fight I want to see.

They’re pushing the WBO to give them a favourable split if purse bids get called. If they’re not happy with the offers they’ve had from FW then I don’t blame them.

Good point. They are probably also trying to stall until Fury v Joshua is confirmed.

It's one thing IF both fights happen in 2021. But if there is any further delay...

It's already been over 3 years since the WBO called a mandatory. Effectively WBO are following the money and ignoring their own rule book. WBC/Whyte level corruption if you ask me.

Some people say Usyk hasn't done enough to earn a shot. Personally I think that is a biased view. He moved up knowing the WBO rules. And if that isn't good enough, his win against Chisora is on par with the majority of title challengers we have seen these last 3-4 years.

Maybe we should be asking what has Joe Joyce done to earn this shot at the mandatory position which Whyte was not given?