The great non champions

[elmersalsa]

IMO, the most laughable rating is Mike Gibbons at 22-24. He deserves to be placed somewhere in the top 10 at a minimum, probably more like the top 5.

Mike Gibbons did not do any impressive stuff. His brother Tommy was way better.

[elmersalsa]

How about this guy at #28: Georgie Abrams?

[Onetimeonly]

IMO, the most laughable rating is Mike Gibbons at 22-24. He deserves to be placed somewhere in the top 10 at a minimum, probably more like the top 5.

Mike Gibbons did not do any impressive stuff. His brother Tommy was way better.

The board disagrees with you.

[elmersalsa]

IMO, the most laughable rating is Mike Gibbons at 22-24. He deserves to be placed somewhere in the top 10 at a minimum, probably more like the top 5.

Mike Gibbons did not do any impressive stuff. His brother Tommy was way better.

The board disagrees with you.

LET'S see what he did, then?

[Ambling Alp II]

for starters, he won No-Decisions over harry Greb, Ted Kid Lewis, and twice over Jack Dillion. That has to count for something. Well in this universe anyway.

[Onetimeonly]

He was NEVER stopped!! Peter Jackson was knocked out and never beat a good fighter.

[elmersalsa]

for starters, he won No-Decisions over harry Greb, Ted Kid Lewis, and twice over Jack Dillion. That has to count for something. Well in this universe anyway.

Non decisions do not count.

[Ambling Alp II]

They have to count for something; like I said in this Universe. Maybe not in elmerland.

[Onetimeonly]

They have to count for something; like I said in this Universe. Maybe not in elmerland.

Hey, in this very thread Elmer has said sure those guys have better wins but Jackson fought in the 1880's. I remember him years ago trumping Peter for having a lot of fights.

[elmersalsa]

No objections on Georgie Abrams.

He beat NBA World Middleweight Champion Billy Soose. He beat Soose 3 times! Soose is in the hall of fame.

He also beat hall of famers Teddy Yarosz, Lou Brouillard and Cocoa Kid.

He had a draw with the great Charley Burley.

And lost a hot disputed decision to the considered best fighter ever, Sugar Ray Robinson.

His title fight with champ Tony Zale was one of the best title fights of all-time according to the reports.

Had one loss in 22 bouts in his route for the number one ranking of Zale's World Middleweight Crown.

[elmersalsa]

Well, so far we got:
1. Sam Langford
2. Charley Burley
3. Packey McFarland
4. Holman Williams
5. Jimmy Bivins
6. "Peerless" Jem Driscoll
7. Lloyd Marshall
8. Peter Jackson
9. Joe Jeannette
10. Billy Graham
11. Newsboy Brown
12. Billy Petrolle
13. Harry Wills
14. Sam McVaey
15. Tommy Gibbons
16. Owen Moran
17. Les Darcy
18. Pedro Montañez
19. Cocoa Kid
20. Jimmy Leto
21. Young Stribbling
22. Lew Tendler
23. Kid Norfolk
24. Mike Gibbons
25. George Godfrey
26. Lew Feldman
27. Eddie Booker
28. Georgie Abrams

22 more to go!

[Ambling Alp II]

They have to count for something; like I said in this Universe. Maybe not in elmerland.

Hey, in this very thread Elmer has said sure those guys have better wins but Jackson fought in the 1880's. I remember him years ago trumping Peter for having a lot of fights.

What else is new?
Jackson having a lot of fights is a big deal to him when he id defending Jackson.
Gibbons had more, but apparently that doesn't count for him.

Same old story. He does this kind of thing over and over.

[chrisjs1985]

Well, so far we got:
1. Sam Langford
2. Charley Burley
3. Packey McFarland
4. Holman Williams
5. Jimmy Bivins
6. "Peerless" Jem Driscoll
7. Lloyd Marshall
8. Peter Jackson
9. Joe Jeannette
10. Billy Graham
11. Newsboy Brown
12. Billy Petrolle
13. Harry Wills
14. Sam McVaey
15. Tommy Gibbons
16. Owen Moran
17. Les Darcy
18. Pedro Montañez
19. Cocoa Kid
20. Jimmy Leto
21. Young Stribbling
22. Lew Tendler
23. Kid Norfolk
24. Mike Gibbons
25. George Godfrey
26. Lew Feldman
27. Eddie Booker
28. Georgie Abrams

22 more to go!

I would say Jose Medel was better than quite a few of those. He had some tremendous scalps on his resume, was Mexican bantamweight champ forever, did great in Japan, had longevity etc;

[elmersalsa]

Well, so far we got:
1. Sam Langford
2. Charley Burley
3. Packey McFarland
4. Holman Williams
5. Jimmy Bivins
6. "Peerless" Jem Driscoll
7. Lloyd Marshall
8. Peter Jackson
9. Joe Jeannette
10. Billy Graham
11. Newsboy Brown
12. Billy Petrolle
13. Harry Wills
14. Sam McVaey
15. Tommy Gibbons
16. Owen Moran
17. Les Darcy
18. Pedro Montañez
19. Cocoa Kid
20. Jimmy Leto
21. Young Stribbling
22. Lew Tendler
23. Kid Norfolk
24. Mike Gibbons
25. George Godfrey
26. Lew Feldman
27. Eddie Booker
28. Georgie Abrams

22 more to go!

I would say Jose Medel was better than quite a few of those. He had some tremendous scalps on his resume, was Mexican bantamweight champ forever, did great in Japan, had longevity etc;

That might be a great choice at #29. Let's review his career.

[elmersalsa]

Well, so far we got:
1. Sam Langford
2. Charley Burley
3. Packey McFarland
4. Holman Williams
5. Jimmy Bivins
6. "Peerless" Jem Driscoll
7. Lloyd Marshall
8. Peter Jackson
9. Joe Jeannette
10. Billy Graham
11. Newsboy Brown
12. Billy Petrolle
13. Harry Wills
14. Sam McVaey
15. Tommy Gibbons
16. Owen Moran
17. Les Darcy
18. Pedro Montañez
19. Cocoa Kid
20. Jimmy Leto
21. Young Stribbling
22. Lew Tendler
23. Kid Norfolk
24. Mike Gibbons
25. George Godfrey
26. Lew Feldman
27. Eddie Booker
28. Georgie Abrams

22 more to go!

I would say Jose Medel was better than quite a few of those. He had some tremendous scalps on his resume, was Mexican bantamweight champ forever, did great in Japan, had longevity etc;

That might be a great choice at #29. Let's review his career.

Jose Medel probably won't make #29, Chris. Too many losses eveb though he beat the great Fighting Harada by knockout in their first fight. Harada then beat him on points in 15 rounds in the rematch. That time, for the bantam crown.

[elmersalsa]

How about this guy?

The magnificent Australian contender Dave Sands of the 1940s.

[elmersalsa]

Well, so far we got:
1. Sam Langford
2. Charley Burley
3. Packey McFarland
4. Holman Williams
5. Jimmy Bivins
6. "Peerless" Jem Driscoll
7. Lloyd Marshall
8. Peter Jackson
9. Joe Jeannette
10. Billy Graham
11. Newsboy Brown
12. Billy Petrolle
13. Harry Wills
14. Sam McVaey
15. Tommy Gibbons
16. Owen Moran
17. Les Darcy
18. Pedro Montañez
19. Cocoa Kid
20. Jimmy Leto
21. Young Stribbling
22. Lew Tendler
23. Kid Norfolk
24. Mike Gibbons
25. George Godfrey
26. Lew Feldman
27. Eddie Booker
28. Georgie Abrams
29. Dave Sands

21 more to go!

[scartissue]

Well, so far we got:
1. Sam Langford
2. Charley Burley
3. Packey McFarland
4. Holman Williams
5. Jimmy Bivins
6. "Peerless" Jem Driscoll
7. Lloyd Marshall
8. Peter Jackson
9. Joe Jeannette
10. Billy Graham
11. Newsboy Brown
12. Billy Petrolle
13. Harry Wills
14. Sam McVaey
15. Tommy Gibbons
16. Owen Moran
17. Les Darcy
18. Pedro Montañez
19. Cocoa Kid
20. Jimmy Leto
21. Young Stribbling
22. Lew Tendler
23. Kid Norfolk
24. Mike Gibbons
25. George Godfrey
26. Lew Feldman
27. Eddie Booker
28. Georgie Abrams
29. Dave Sands

21 more to go!

Just a smattering of names I would suggest for your review:

Leo Espinosa
Jose Medel
Jesus Pimental
Bernardo Caraballo
Percy Bassett
Nel Tarleton
Tyrone Everett
Willie Joyce
Freddie Dawson
Hector Thompson
Gil Turner
Armando Muniz
Jack Chase
Spider Webb
Joey Archer
Bennie Briscoe
Yaqui Lopez
Jorge Ahumada
Richie Kates
Jerry Quarry
Zora Folley
Eddie Machen

[elmersalsa]

Well, so far we got:
1. Sam Langford
2. Charley Burley
3. Packey McFarland
4. Holman Williams
5. Jimmy Bivins
6. "Peerless" Jem Driscoll
7. Lloyd Marshall
8. Peter Jackson
9. Joe Jeannette
10. Billy Graham
11. Newsboy Brown
12. Billy Petrolle
13. Harry Wills
14. Sam McVaey
15. Tommy Gibbons
16. Owen Moran
17. Les Darcy
18. Pedro Montañez
19. Cocoa Kid
20. Jimmy Leto
21. Young Stribbling
22. Lew Tendler
23. Kid Norfolk
24. Mike Gibbons
25. George Godfrey
26. Lew Feldman
27. Eddie Booker
28. Georgie Abrams
29. Dave Sands

21 more to go!

Just a smattering of names I would suggest for your review:

Leo Espinosa
Jose Medel
Jesus Pimental
Bernardo Caraballo
Percy Bassett
Nel Tarleton
Tyrone Everett
Willie Joyce
Freddie Dawson
Hector Thompson
Gil Turner
Armando Muniz
Jack Chase
Spider Webb
Joey Archer
Bennie Briscoe
Yaqui Lopez
Jorge Ahumada
Richie Kates
Jerry Quarry
Zora Folley
Eddie Machen

Great choices. Some of them will make the list. There are 21 more spots to go. Thanks for the participation, scartissue!

[Ambling Alp II]

As I have said before, you have reached the point where you probably have all of the great fighters. You now have a ton of guys (many mentioned by scar tissue) that are roughly even.

[scartissue]

Just a few more to chew on:

Jimmy Warnock
Halimi Gutierrez
Fernando Cabanela
Alan Rudkin
Famoso Gomez
Charley Riley
Ruben Castillo
Jack Blackburn
Wes Ramey
Art Aragon
Kenny Lane
Dave Shade
Clyde Gray
Tiger Jack fox
James Scott

[elmersalsa]

#30 Dave Shade? Any objections?

[elmersalsa]

There were no objections. And why? He was a great non champion.

[elmersalsa]

Well, so far we got:
1. Sam Langford
2. Charley Burley
3. Packey McFarland
4. Holman Williams
5. Jimmy Bivins
6. "Peerless" Jem Driscoll
7. Lloyd Marshall
8. Peter Jackson
9. Joe Jeannette
10. Billy Graham
11. Newsboy Brown
12. Billy Petrolle
13. Harry Wills
14. Sam McVaey
15. Tommy Gibbons
16. Owen Moran
17. Les Darcy
18. Pedro Montañez
19. Cocoa Kid
20. Jimmy Leto
21. Young Stribbling
22. Lew Tendler
23. Kid Norfolk
24. Mike Gibbons
25. George Godfrey
26. Lew Feldman
27. Eddie Booker
28. Georgie Abrams
29. Dave Sands
30. Dave Shade

20 more to go!

[chrisjs1985]

Jose Medel is not a hard sell. Watch him fight. Gave Jofre hell in the first fight, KO'd Harada, and gave him a tough title fight which he wobbled Harada a few times. Even post-prime dropped Rose, lost a close-ish one, got a draw with Chucho Castillo. In his prime reigned for 8 years as Mexican bantamweight champ (that's probably equivalent or greater than being an 8 year champ today), beat Toluco Lopez, one of the biggest names and best Mexican fighters of that time. Also took a huge scalp when he beat Jesus Pimentel. Edmundo Esparza (a fine fighter who beat Harada also), Ignacio Pina, very good Mexican fighters of the day. Guys like Dwight Hawkins, Herman Marquez, Manny Elias, Danny Kid, Eloy Sanchez, Johnny Sarduy, Ray Asis, Manuel Barrios many of them perennial contenders and fine fighters. Evan Armstrong, also world flyweight champ Walter McGownan. Then you've got his Japanese bouts, where he became an icon. Not just Harada, but he beat Sadao Yaoita, Mitsunori Seki, Katsuo Saito etc;

Medel was a fine fighter and would be a multiple times champion in almost any era. His resume is stacked and his skills top notch.