How Good Do You Think Esteban DeJesus Was ?

[oogiebe]

Revisionism when your favorite isn't the GOAT.

[Ambling Alp II]

That is what goes down to with elmer. He always has a excuse for Duran.
He really hates Leonard simply because he beat Duran. To make it worse, he will come back and say he likes Leonard so he act like he is impartial. doesn't fool anyone.

Duran also lost to Leonard on even terms. They were both welterweights. Duran had fought at welterweight before. Each had fought 5 months prior. Fair fight.
Duran lost to Benitez on even terms. Duran had fought at 154 before. Fair fight.

Had Duran and Benitez probably would have been similar had they fought at 147 instead of 154. elmer and Duran would have cried about that one as well.

[oogiebe]

That is what goes down to with elmer. He always has a excuse for Duran.
He really hates Leonard simply because he beat Duran. To make it worse, he will come back and say he likes Leonard so he act like he is impartial. doesn't fool anyone.

Duran also lost to Leonard on even terms. They were both welterweights. Duran had fought at welterweight before. Each had fought 5 months prior. Fair fight.
Duran lost to Benitez on even terms. Duran had fought at 154 before. Fair fight.

Had Duran and Benitez probably would have been similar had they fought at 147 instead of 154. elmer and Duran would have cried about that one as well.

Yah. THe old, "I'm a fan of his, BUT"

[elmersalsa]

That is what goes down to with elmer. He always has a excuse for Duran.
He really hates Leonard simply because he beat Duran. To make it worse, he will come back and say he likes Leonard so he act like he is impartial. doesn't fool anyone.

Duran also lost to Leonard on even terms. They were both welterweights. Duran had fought at welterweight before. Each had fought 5 months prior. Fair fight.
Duran lost to Benitez on even terms. Duran had fought at 154 before. Fair fight.

Had Duran and Benitez probably would have been similar had they fought at 147 instead of 154. elmer and Duran would have cried about that one as well.

Leonard vs Duran II was not even terms. That is American media and fans pipe dream. Sugar Ray caught Duran in an OFF NIGHT.

You want to say that Duran was in shape and ready. I did not see the same intensity and awareness by Duran, especially when he was on. Not in New Orleans.

If you think that Sugar Ray was so great, then why he never give Duran time to train properly? It looks like Duran just trained to lose weight. Not to be mentally and physically prepared like in Montreal. You don't give the benefit of the doubt to Duran. At EVEN TERMS, he whupped Leonard. That is the end of story.

Duran did not need American media leeway. He never asked for a bigger ring. He did not go and watched tape. He never rushed anybody for a rematch because he knew the other fighter was not properly in shape.

But, Esteban De Jesus? You don't give him any credit whatsoever. And he was the one that really beat Duran on EVEN TERMS. THE ONLY ONE.

He was the ONLY ONE that fought Duran 3 times in Duran's prime. I cannot say that about Sugar Ray. For him it was always an agenda. He was Manipulating and calculating strategist outside the ring. He knew that Duran was THE OBSTACLE for him to be the greatest.

[Tony1244]

Sugar Ray only legit losd was to Roberto Duran
Joe Louis only legit losd was to Max Schmeling
Roberto Duran only legit loss was to Esteban De Jesus
Muhammad Ali only legit losses were to Joe Frazier and Ken Norton
Willie Pep legit losses were to Sammy Angott and Sandy Saddler

You got the point?

I see your point, but "legit" isn't necessarily the right word. Leon legitimately beat Ali for the title. Of course, Muhammad was way past his prime.

Only losses in their prime would make more sense IMO.

I think they have to able close their prime. With Duran, though, elmer acts like the is the only guy who ever moved up in weight.

The Leonard loss counts. The Benitez loss counts.
You can't just use the off night excuse when it favors your guy. Its about lame an excuse as you possibly come up with. elmer carries the cry babying to an extreme.

Sure they count. If part of the reason for those losses were too much eating and too much drinking, that is part of who Roberto is.

Duran was a great lightweight and excellent (usually) welter, Could he have been better if he didn't gain massive amounts of weight between fights and then didn't have to lose it quickly? Sure. Leon would have been better too if he didn't love pot, coke, and booze. Woulda, shoulda, coulda.

[elmersalsa]

To put Esteban De Jesus' career in perspective:

Career: 1969-80
Record: 57-5, 32KOs
KO pct: 56%

Highlights:
Was Puerto Rican, NABF and WBC World Lightweight Champion (1976-78).

Made 4 title defenses of WBC crown.

Won first 16 fights (Record:16-0, 13KOs)

Had only 1 loss in 42 fights before losing to the great Roberto Duran in the rematch. (Record: 41-1, 22KOs), in which he had a 25-fight winning streak from April 1971 to January 1974 (Record: 25-0, 9KOs). On that stretch, he gave Duran his first defeat, and won the Puerto Rican and NABF Lightweight Championships.

Beat 3 out of 4 world champions and beat 1 out of 2 hall of famers.

His only 2 losses at lightweight was with Duran.

Historical Impact: A Puerto Rican boxer-puncher which is considered one of the top 20 lightweight division greatest fighters by The Ring Magazine. Was the first man to knocked down the great Roberto Duran, and did it twice in the first round in successive bouts. The only and first man to ever beat Duran at Duran's prime. First man ever to fight Duran 3 times.

Defining Fight: W10 Roberto Duran....November 17, 1972...... First man ever to knock down and defeat the Panamanian legend...And he decked him in the very first round!

Other Defining Fights: W12 Josue Marquez, W12 Ray Lampkin, WK10 Alfonso Frazier,LKO11 Roberto Duran (II), L15 Antonio Cervantes and W15 Ishimatsu Suzuki


Other fighters that Esteban De Jesus fought:
W10 Leonel Hernandez
W10 Percy Hayles
W10 Doc McClendon
W10 Angel Robinson Garcia
W10 Edwin Viruet
L10 Antonio Gomez
W10 Johnny Gant
WTKO5 Gerardo Ferrat
LTKO13 Saoul Mamby

[gilgamesh]

If Sugar Ray is one of your favorite boxers who the f*ck is your least favorite? Because that's the first positive post I've ever seen you make regarding Leonard

And you still had to insult him before it was over.

I don't put Leonard on a pedestal like Duran or Ali

Clearly. You bend over backwards, and stick your head up your own ass to dig deep for excuses for Duran.

He doesn't need defending. He was a great fighter all on his own. He wasn't the greatest fighter there ever was, and that's ok. You can calm down.

[gilgamesh]

I see your point, but "legit" isn't necessarily the right word. Leon legitimately beat Ali for the title. Of course, Muhammad was way past his prime.

Only losses in their prime would make more sense IMO.

I think they have to able close their prime. With Duran, though, elmer acts like the is the only guy who ever moved up in weight.

The Leonard loss counts. The Benitez loss counts.
You can't just use the off night excuse when it favors your guy. Its about lame an excuse as you possibly come up with. elmer carries the cry babying to an extreme.

Sure they count. If part of the reason for those losses were too much eating and too much drinking, that is part of who Roberto is.

Duran was a great lightweight and excellent (usually) welter, Could he have been better if he didn't gain massive amounts of weight between fights and then didn't have to lose it quickly? Sure. Leon would have been better too if he didn't love pot, coke, and booze. Woulda, shoulda, coulda.

Exactamundo

[elmersalsa]

If Sugar Ray is one of your favorite boxers who the f*ck is your least favorite? Because that's the first positive post I've ever seen you make regarding Leonard

And you still had to insult him before it was over.

I don't put Leonard on a pedestal like Duran or Ali

Clearly. You bend over backwards, and stick your head up your own ass to dig deep for excuses for Duran.

He doesn't need defending. He was a great fighter all on his own. He wasn't the greatest fighter there ever was, and that's ok. You can calm down.

I just called it like I see it. This is about Esteban De Jesus. Do you give him justice?

[gilgamesh]

Of course. He was an excellent fighter. I don't know about Top 20 all time as a Lightweight, but he's a very good fighter.

[elmersalsa]

Of course. He was an excellent fighter. I don't know about Top 20 all time as a Lightweight, but he's a very good fighter.

The Ring Magazine, the Bible of Boxing, got De Jesus ranked at #20 in the 20 best lightweights ever.

I don't think that there is nothing wrong on that.

[gilgamesh]

Of course. He was an excellent fighter. I don't know about Top 20 all time as a Lightweight, but he's a very good fighter.

The Ring Magazine, the Bible of Boxing, got De Jesus ranked at #20 in the 20 best lightweights ever.

I don't think that there is nothing wrong on that.

It's not too crazy no.

[elmersalsa]

Of course. He was an excellent fighter. I don't know about Top 20 all time as a Lightweight, but he's a very good fighter.

The Ring Magazine, the Bible of Boxing, got De Jesus ranked at #20 in the 20 best lightweights ever.

I don't think that there is nothing wrong on that.

It's not too crazy no.

At least we both agree on something

[elmersalsa]

For much of the 1970s, DeJesus was unquestionably the second best lightweight in the world. Inferior only to Duran. That's saying a lot about DeJesus. I don't know if anyone regards him as an ATG, but he was pretty damned good either way.

[funso banjo baby]

No idea where he'd rank but he was lovely to watch

I remember in the golden 80's UK broadcast episodes of Ferdie pachecos great fights of the 70's series , one of the Duran fights, mesmerising