Prime Joe Louis vs. a prime Joe Frazier?

[NYDominican]

A prime Joe Louis vs. a prime Joe Frazier?

What advantages would Louis have over Frazier?

What advantages would Frazier have over Louis?

What do you see happening in this fight?

Who would win? Why?

Please explain.

[DrDuke]

Louis was more polished as a boxer.

Frazier was much tougher. He settled a wild pace, he could take more punishment.

Louis wouldn't be able to deal with Frazier's pressure. Louis didn't have enough tools to avoid Frazier's onslaught. Louis didn't have enough chin to take Frazier's best shots.

Frazier by KO inside 10 rounds.

[Ambling Alp II]

Louis was every bit as tough as Frazier.
Louis was a very accurate puncher who would have not had a lot trouble finding Frazier.
Frazier did bring a lot of pressure and had a great left hook. there is a chance that Frazier could have landed the big one or worn down Louis. Maybe win a decision, but it's doubtful it would go the distance. Each fighter could hurt the other. Louis had great power.
More often than not though, a prime Louis would win this.

[DrDuke]

Louis was every bit as tough as Frazier.

No, he wasn't. He was floored frequently. He was KOed not once, including when he was in prime. Frazier stood up 6 times against Foreman. Frazier has never been literally stopped.

[margaret thatcher]

two ton tony the barkeep gave joe L quite the tussle didnt he,

[oogiebe]

Louis was every bit as tough as Frazier.

No, he wasn't. He was floored frequently. He was KOed not once, including when he was in prime. Frazier stood up 6 times against Foreman. Frazier has never been literally stopped.

He was also down several times to Bonevena. Not the thing I'd use to comp them.

[oogiebe]

Louis could punch from anywhere and Frazier could be hit from anywhere. Louis late stoppage.

[DrDuke]

Louis was every bit as tough as Frazier.

No, he wasn't. He was floored frequently. He was KOed not once, including when he was in prime. Frazier stood up 6 times against Foreman. Frazier has never been literally stopped.

He was also down several times to Bonevena. Not the thing I'd use to comp them.

He was, but Louis was way easier to be decked and KOed. And he never had fights of the pace Frazier used to settle. Frazier proved to be a tougher fella for sure.

[Ambling Alp II]

Louis was every bit as tough as Frazier.

No, he wasn't. He was floored frequently. He was KOed not once, including when he was in prime. Frazier stood up 6 times against Foreman. Frazier has never been literally stopped.

He was also down several times to Bonevena. Not the thing I'd use to comp them.

Louis was knocked down 10 times.
Frazier was knocked down 9 times.

Louis was stopped twice in his career.
Frazier was stopped three times in his career.

Louis had 71 fights.
Frazier only had 37 fights.

[DrDuke]

No, he wasn't. He was floored frequently. He was KOed not once, including when he was in prime. Frazier stood up 6 times against Foreman. Frazier has never been literally stopped.

He was also down several times to Bonevena. Not the thing I'd use to comp them.

Louis was knocked down 10 times.
Frazier was knocked down 9 times.

Louis was stopped twice in his career.
Frazier was stopped three times in his career.

Louis had 71 fights.
Frazier only had 37 fights.

Now count in how many fights each of them was down.

[oogiebe]

He was also down several times to Bonevena. Not the thing I'd use to comp them.

Louis was knocked down 10 times.
Frazier was knocked down 9 times.

Louis was stopped twice in his career.
Frazier was stopped three times in his career.

Louis had 71 fights.
Frazier only had 37 fights.

Now count in how many fights each of them was down.

C'mon duke. It's farely obvious that both guys were put down. Next thing we'll say % of fights knocked down, and so on and so on.

[DrDuke]

Louis was knocked down 10 times.
Frazier was knocked down 9 times.

Louis was stopped twice in his career.
Frazier was stopped three times in his career.

Louis had 71 fights.
Frazier only had 37 fights.

Now count in how many fights each of them was down.

C'mon duke. It's farely obvious that both guys were put down. Next thing we'll say % of fights knocked down, and so on and so on.

Did I say that someone wasn't or what?

[oogiebe]

Now count in how many fights each of them was down.

C'mon duke. It's farely obvious that both guys were put down. Next thing we'll say % of fights knocked down, and so on and so on.

Did I say that someone wasn't or what?

[DrDuke]

C'mon duke. It's farely obvious that both guys were put down. Next thing we'll say % of fights knocked down, and so on and so on.

Did I say that someone wasn't or what?

When nothing is left to say?

[oogiebe]

No, he wasn't. He was floored frequently. He was KOed not once, including when he was in prime. Frazier stood up 6 times against Foreman. Frazier has never been literally stopped.

He was also down several times to Bonevena. Not the thing I'd use to comp them.

Louis was knocked down 10 times.
Frazier was knocked down 9 times.

Louis was stopped twice in his career.
Frazier was stopped three times in his career.

Louis had 71 fights.
Frazier only had 37 fights.

Frazier was knocked down 10 times.

8 by George
2 by Oscar

[Ambling Alp II]

Guess we are moving the goalposts.

Ok, Frazier was knocked down in 4 different fights.
Louis was knocked down in 7 different fights.

Frazier was knocked down in 10.8% of his fights.
Louis was knocked down in only 9.9% of his fights.

[DrDuke]

Frazier was taking more punishment in his fights and he had a better ability to return favors instantly, to keep his game on. Only Foreman, the greatest puncher ever, stopped him and even that was technical both times.

Louis was hurt in many more fights against different guys, at different stages of his career. Plus he was fighting different fights against them. If not his boxing abilities, defence or if he fought in Frazier's style, we would have never heard of Joe Louis.

Frazier had freakish toughness, far superior in comparison to Louis. To equal them in that quality? To count percents? C'mon...

[Ambling Alp II]

You were the one who brought up statistics. Now that it has pointed out that it doesn't favor your guy, you are complaining about them.

Frazier had a good chin. However he could be hurt. Not just by Foreman either.
Louis had a good chin. He got hurt once in awhile as well.

If you want to claim that Frazier had a slightly better chin; fine. However it's not some huge advantage.

Obviously we to consider other things as well. Basically, stamina, who hits harder, and who is going to land more.

Being generous, we can call stamina even.
Frazier had the big left hook. Louis certainly had a very good left hook and a much better right hand.
The power department is pretty close.

Louis was the better defense. He also was a more accurate puncher. Both are capable of hurting the other guy. But Louis would be landing more; which gives him the edge in this fight.

Not saying Frazier couldn't win. It's just that Louis is more likely to.

btw- Frazier also was stopped against Ali.

[f read]

I got to favor Joe Louis. This is a great matchup. Joe Louis is an accurate combination power puncher. He did not have great footwork but could easily go the distance. The Joe Frazier and only of March 8 1971 beats Louis but otherwise Louis by stoppage. The superior overall boxing skills of Joe Louis prevails and he wins 7 out of 10 times.

[oogiebe]

You were the one who brought up statistics. Now that it has pointed out that it doesn't favor your guy, you are complaining about them.

[DrDuke]

You were the one who brought up statistics. Now that it has pointed out that it doesn't favor your guy, you are complaining about them.

Frazier had a good chin. However he could be hurt. Not just by Foreman either.
Louis had a good chin. He got hurt once in awhile as well.

If you want to claim that Frazier had a slightly better chin; fine. However it's not some huge advantage.

All statistics that I brought was the mentioning of Frazier getting up 6 times against Foreman just to illustrate the toughness of Frazier and the fact of him not being literally KOed even then. I also mentioned the obvious thing, that Louis was hurt in many more fights. It's you who began to speculate with percents in order to cover up the obvious thing, that Frazier could take more punishment and simply had a much better chin.

Frazier also was stopped against Ali.

Lol, how can you bring a corner stoppage as an example? Frazier was standing his ground in that fight and taking tons of punishment, Louis had no example of similar display of toughness and chin.

[Ambling Alp II]

you brought up the statistics. You continued to bring up statistics, asking how many fights that Louis was knocked down in.
When I brought up the stats that favored Louis, all of a sudden the stats didn't mean anything to you! Oogiebe noticed it as well. Anyone can go back and check it.

As for Frazier being stopped by Ali- Yourself. You were factually wrong and I called you on it. First Frazier was literally never stopped. He was. Then you claim only Foreman did it. Again, not true. It is a fact that Frazier was stopped by Ali.

If he lands, Louis is just as likely to hurt Frazier as vice versa. Louis is going to land more.

If you want to pick Frazier, fine. But you need to start thing about what you are saying and stop trying to spin it a different way when your "facts" are debunked.

[DrDuke]

you brought up the statistics. You continued to bring up statistics, asking how many fights that Louis was knocked down in.
When I brought up the stats that favored Louis, all of a sudden the stats didn't mean anything to you! Oogiebe noticed it as well. Anyone can go back and check it.

I asked you for more stats only because you brought up the ones you like. Well, you and your henchman.

As for Frazier being stopped by Ali- Yourself. You were factually wrong and I called you on it. First Frazier was literally never stopped. He was. Then you claim only Foreman did it. Again, not true. It is a fact that Frazier was stopped by Ali.

The point was, that Frazier had never been out. Are you really that dumb not to understand that? It should have been easier than evaluating stats.

[oogiebe]

you brought up the statistics. You continued to bring up statistics, asking how many fights that Louis was knocked down in.
When I brought up the stats that favored Louis, all of a sudden the stats didn't mean anything to you! Oogiebe noticed it as well. Anyone can go back and check it.

I asked you for more stats only because you brought up the ones you like. Well, you and your henchman.

As for Frazier being stopped by Ali- Yourself. You were factually wrong and I called you on it. First Frazier was literally never stopped. He was. Then you claim only Foreman did it. Again, not true. It is a fact that Frazier was stopped by Ali.

The point was, that Frazier had never been out. Are you really that dumb not to understand that? It should have been easier than evaluating stats.

Henchman? LMFAO! Your butt must be stung to shit.
Keep moving the goalposts. So now Frazier was never 'out.' C'mon Duke.

[margaret thatcher]

let's be honest, both these muthaf@ckers getting put on their legendary black asses if they fought