Early Naseem Hamed

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 13 Jul 2006, 18:14

Just been watching KOTV on Eurosport, showed footage from Hamed v Armando Castro from 1995. Have not watched early Hamed fights for some time, although I have nearly all of them on tape but I really had forgotten how good he was before he went downhill. His reflexes were unbelievable back then. Granted he didn't have a great fighter in the other corner but he was punch perfect back then. Shame he didn't stay as dedicated although I think his style was always going to get old mid to late 20's I suppose.

scottyboy_1978 · Post by **scottyboy_1978** » 14 Jul 2006, 12:03

yeah no doubt he had some great skill but was lacking when he fought Barrera

Think he was found out on that night...........

kerrminator · Post by **kerrminator** » 14 Jul 2006, 12:12

I think he could have hammered MAB if he was dedicated, if you have seen the docu called "little prince, big fight" you will know what I mean.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 14 Jul 2006, 12:21

Compare the way Hamed boxed early in his career against the likes of teak tough Belcastro etc, with how he boxed as a heavy handed ego maniac to the tale end of his career, there is no comparison to my mind.

Hamed regressed badly and neglected the skills that originally had set him apart.

I dont think the jump is class was so great, but certainly his deficiencies were magnified by his lax training habits and an over reliance on reflexes and thunderous power punches.

black panther · Post by **black panther** » 14 Jul 2006, 12:24

Yeah I dont care what anybody says - the hamed that we saw last night would have beaten barrera. Having said that barrera is one my favourite fighters!

scottyboy_1978 · Post by **scottyboy_1978** » 14 Jul 2006, 12:28

Hameds problem that night was looking for that big punch to finish the job. Perhaps if he stuck to his boxing abitly a bit more then it might hav been a different story......

After the Kevin Kelly fight exiting though it was an although he did come through to win , i thought from that piont that the end could be near.

I did enjoy watching Naz though and he did certainly get alot of non boxing fans interested............but the comeback he has mentioned i fear is doomed to failure.

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 14 Jul 2006, 13:15

The boy had it all at the time Nick is talking about. Balance, speed, power, didn't always go head hunting either. I recall a couple of fights in which the big shot didn't come early and Hamed was happy to break them up with a none too shabby jab. Hamed would still win every round whilst looking to spark his man.

If the big shot came (and it did most the time) then it was spectacular and if not he put the work in to take them apart.

Shame with Hamed, I don't believe he lived up to his potential and that potential was to be one of the best fighters who laced a glove in my opinion, certainly in the lower weight classes.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 14 Jul 2006, 14:09

i always thought he struggled when fighters laid off him. medina gave him trouble from the outside and so did tom johnson briefly.

kevin kelley was the first one to expose it badly.

it was only when kelley got close that he blew the fight.

barrera studied the tapes and realised that was the weakness and adopted his tactics brilliantly.

94/95 naz was still something special though.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 14 Jul 2006, 14:11

black panther wrote:Yeah I dont care what anybody says - the hamed that we saw last night would have beaten barrera. Having said that barrera is one my favourite fighters!

castro was a barrera lookalike wasn't he.

almost a spiting image of marco that guy was.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 14 Jul 2006, 15:49

Hamed was landing some decent bodyshots against Castro. Amazing he gave those up and became a headhunter later on.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 14 Jul 2006, 18:12

Hamed was mustard vs Jose Baddillo and Steve Robinson - his two best performances. But, he wouldn't have beaten Barrera IMO.

The Barrera of 1995/1996 would have KO'd Hamed. I don't know what happend the night/s he lost to Junior Jones - but it was as if Junior Jones had some kind of out of body experience and in came some boxing master. Jones looked the absolute bomb those nights and displayed a punch resistance that he never showed before or since.

I think the Hamed fights and subsequent fights at higher weights has shown how good Barrera's chin is (one of the reasons why he was a 5/1 underdog was cause of doubts on his chin, moving up to fight a huge monster of a hitting feather).

I think Barrera might have been second best for large periods but ultimately, had too good a chin, too quick legspeed and too much of a work rate for Hamed. His face might have resembled Jose Badillo's at the end, but he would have prevailed.

Hamed didn't have it all his own way vs Johnson, and that was a prime Hamed. Johnson wasn't in Barrera's class at that stage of Boom Boom's career.

I'm convinced that any proposed Barrera vs Hamed 2 would see Barrera as the aggressor, cutting off the ring and walking through Hamed (mexican mechismo). I think a Barrera vs Hamed 1995/1996/1997 match would have been the same as this - cause Barrera didn't fight any differently in those days. I think Barrera's chin, ability, workrate and power would have got to Hamed in the end - and while behind on points he'd pick up the KO win.

yiddo14 · Post by **yiddo14** » 15 Jul 2006, 16:13

If's and but's lads.....

beagleboy · Post by **beagleboy** » 16 Jul 2006, 03:54

[
quote="yiddo14"]If's and but's lads.....

[/quote]

if only he'd stayed with Brendan Ingle

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 16 Jul 2006, 11:28

beagleboy wrote:
yiddo14 wrote:If's and but's lads.....
if only he'd stayed with Brendan Ingle

And now he's getting in the butt in prison

yiddo14 · Post by **yiddo14** » 16 Jul 2006, 11:52

Brendan Ingle is not some superman that can defy nature.He cannot stop a mans reflexes fading as he gets older..........

For what it's worth Naz achieved as much as he ever could in my opinion.
He fulfilled his potential.
One thing he has,is an amazing number of fans who see him as some kind of demi-god,who could have become the greatest ever if he had done this....or but for that....if Ingle had stayed......

If Frank Bruno had a chin and stamina he would have been undisputed champ.....
If my nan had bollox she would be my grandad......

kerrminator · Post by **kerrminator** » 16 Jul 2006, 19:12

Brendan was maybe not a superman but he was a well respected trainer /coach

Naz employed his brothers(who have zero boxing training knowledge) to train and coach him as Suarez, Manny etc all gave up due to his lack of commitment so I think its safe to say he would have been a far better fighter against Barrera if old Irish was still in his corner.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 17 Jul 2006, 08:19

His brother's weren't training him, they were managing his affairs, as far as i recall, Suarez trained him for his last fight against Calvo. After that there were rumours of him being trained by various hired hands, but not by his brothers.

Lightsoot · Post by **Lightsoot** » 17 Jul 2006, 08:21

Hamed's "one-sided beating" that he received against Barrera was grossly exaggerated.

Yes, Hamed was out of sorts, but he did manage to pinch a few rounds. 116-112 was about right.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 17 Jul 2006, 08:21

Ben Carey wrote:Hamed's "one-sided beating" that he received against Barrera was grossly exaggerated.

Yes, Hamed was out of sorts, but he did manage to pinch a few rounds. 116-112 was about right.

True.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 17 Jul 2006, 09:23

Ben Carey wrote:Hamed's "one-sided beating" that he received against Barrera was grossly exaggerated.

Yes, Hamed was out of sorts, but he did manage to pinch a few rounds. 116-112 was about right.

Maybe, but in any of those Hamed rounds did you think - he's got him now... or did you think, Barrera will have him again.

My opinion was definately the latter, Barrera always looked in control even in the Hamed rounds.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 17 Jul 2006, 09:27

Ben Carey wrote:Hamed's "one-sided beating" that he received against Barrera was grossly exaggerated.

Yes, Hamed was out of sorts, but he did manage to pinch a few rounds. 116-112 was about right.

Sorry Ben, but Hamed got totally schooled, Barrera whipped him like a naughty schoolboy in there, he had Hamed in a world of trouble over the last 3rd of the fight, and was never close to losing. Hamed was given a few rounds for aggression when Barrera fought defensively, but there was nothing close about that fight.

Lightsoot · Post by **Lightsoot** » 17 Jul 2006, 09:39

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Ben Carey wrote:Hamed's "one-sided beating" that he received against Barrera was grossly exaggerated.

Yes, Hamed was out of sorts, but he did manage to pinch a few rounds. 116-112 was about right.
Sorry Ben, but Hamed got totally schooled, Barrera whipped him like a naughty schoolboy in there, he had Hamed in a world of trouble over the last 3rd of the fight, and was never close to losing. Hamed was given a few rounds for aggression when Barrera fought defensively, but there was nothing close about that fight.

He whipped in some rounds and generally schooled him, yes, but Marco also took rounds of which Hamed then stole, allbeit boxing indifferently.

But the point I'm making is that I and others scored it 8 rounds to 4 to Barrera. Had Hamed scrambled just two more rounds he could have earned himself a draw.

The rounds Barrera won, he won big, whereas Hamed just edged the ones he won but under the 10-9 system fights can wind up far closer on the cards than what they should do.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 17 Jul 2006, 09:43

Yes, indeed, the ridiculous scoring system flattered Hamed who must have landed a 5th of the punches Barrera did, and none of them with any great authority.

The fact is, Barrera was so in command he could afford to take rounds off, had Hamed been making it closer, I've no doubt Barrera would have stepped it up.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 17 Jul 2006, 09:52

Terence wrote:
Age did not trip him up versus Barrera, a lack of boxing intelligence and his own technique did. Give him a guy who will march into him and he'd probably look awsome now.

Didn't look particuarly good vs Paul Ingle who did just that.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 17 Jul 2006, 10:01

Yes, Ingle didn't get the credit he deserved... Completely agree and agree it wasn't an off night (cause I think had Hamed been off he wouldn't have got the late KO and might have lost). Had Hamed and Ingle had the opportunity to go at it again, I think the outcome would have been different. Ingle was an excellent fighter... different league to Harrison and Cook IMO.

However, although I would have tipped Ingle in a rematch, I do have to say I wouldn't have been confident cause Ingle wasn't a great pacer of fights. He was down and hurt late in all his world title fights.