Heavyweight danger Oleksandr Usyk beefs up further ahead of title shot

[Enlightened-One]

[Usyk] doesn't look particularly much bigger. Just a bit softer.

Agreed. But he has put on weight.

David Haye and Tomasz Adamek are examples of good cruiserweights (I know Adamek started at LHW too)of recent years that I can think of that put on size and then handled some of the lesser heavyweights reasonably well, then were beaten fairly easily when they met the Klitschko brothers, who were just too big.

It's ancient history though, because the average heavyweight is currently much bigger than they were a decade ago.

Deontay Wilder is the only heavyweight fighter within the last decade to have successfully engaged in a world heavyweight title fight weighing less than 225lbs.

And he only ever did it three times.

Let's be perfectly honest though, Wilder would probably weigh around the 245lbs mark if he had legs like a "normal" human being:

Haye relied on head movement, and was decent at slipping punches from bigger guys...

Agreed.

... and [Haye's] power carried up.

Disagree.

but his footwork let him down and he struggled with getting into the range he needed to land on the giants.

Agreed. He was too negative, employed too much lateral movement and often failed to control the distance.

The Haye/Booth/Groves style was low hands, head movement, feints, speed and, above all else, explosiveness. I think that's what ended Haye so early: Not just the fights but sparring big guys and constantly having to remain elusive and fast with the extra size on his frame. When Usyk first moved up and almost immediately injured that was a red flag.

Agreed.

Age and hard camps are catching up with the Ukranian, I think. He's not going to be fighting AJ or Fury any time soon, and he seems to have made it clear Joe Joyce doesn't interest him. He can't fight Ruiz, who's fighting Arreola and will sit on that win for a while after; he can't fight AJ or Fury; he can't fight Joseph Parker. Who's he going to fight?

Usyk is no longer aligned with Matchroom, but he's a free-agent that will continue doing business with them.

Usyk was only instated as the WBO's mandatory challenger for AJ's title due to their silly 'super-champion' rule.

He's an official mandatory challenger due to a technicality in the rule-book, rather than merit (at least not at heavyweight anyway).

He will likely continue facing less-than-stellar opposition, whilst waiting patiently for the mega payday he'll receive facing Fury or AJ.

It doesn't make any business sense for him to engage in stay-busy bouts against high-risk-low-reward opponents like Joe Joyce.

Dillian Whyte? Dillian will sit on his shot, too.

Dillian Whyte headlines PPV's. He can't do this if he's fighting subpar opposition.

And as we've seen with his handling of his WBC title shot over the years, he's willing to continue facing tough opposition, without caring less about preserving his spot in the title-challenger queue.

I feel that Usyk would be more reluctant to face Whyte than the other way around.

Anyway, Whyte is taking a step-down in the calibre of opposition for his next outing (against Trevor Bryan for the WBA regular title or the winner of Jermaine Franklin vs. Stephan Shaw).

However, if you review Whyte's resume for his last ten outings, there are very few stay-busy bouts. He deserves the ocassional free-pass.

[margaret thatcher]

those legs though

and lol i wonder if malik scott was that big of a wilder fan when they fought

[The Gratest]

Looking at those pipe cleaners, the ring-walk costume being too heavy excuse has perhaps some validity to it.

The scottish saying 'I've seen bigger knots in a midges penis' springs to mind.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

I can’t recall an occasion whereby a small guy fighting “BIG” has resulted in said fighter punching harder. I don’t think it’s ever happened. (unless your name is Manny Pacquiao – who frequently refused to undergo random unannounced PED testing, but I digress).

What a moron. This anti Pac nonsense is nothing more than a witchhunt.

To be fair, Pacquiao's frequent refusal to undergo random unannounced blood-based drug testing is highly documented.

There are even videos of him explaining his reluctance/flat-refusal to undergo testing.

If he really is a clean athlete, then it's his own fault for creating the atmosphere of uncertainty.

Technically-speaking, he's innocent until proven guilty.

But it's also technically-accurate for me to claim that Pacquiao is reluctant to be PED tested (based on historical conduct/interviews).

It’s impossible to prove guilt without taking the test... or only being testing according to a schedule and protocols specified by Pacquiao himself.

GBP & Top Rank had agreed the terms of a March 12th 2010 fight-date between Mayweather and Pacquiao (purse, venue etc., everything was in place except for the PED testing)

However, Manny rejected a (then) career best payday to face Floyd Mayweather Jr. because he didn’t want to under-go Olympic style drug testing administered by USADA that adhered to the WADA code.

There are videos of him claiming he couldn't accept the terms because he would feel weakened by being tested.

This is based on historical fact that you can very easily verify.
And if you still disagree with me, there's an overwhelming amount of evidence to support my original claim, which was that "Manny Pacquiao – frequently refused to undergo random unannounced PED testing"

- L'odeur de You supercilious pretentiousness permeates every topic you befoul with your presence.

Olympic drug testing is never negotiable, DUH!

SissyboyFloyd and Manny negotiated drug testing terms that were never agreed up for their proposed March 13, 2010 date at the MGM, Double DUH!

That makes you the unholy trinity of Dumbo Dimwittery DUH!!!

You Sissyboy backed out of the date to lose his MGM deposit and his career purse. Manny made the date at the inaugural Cowboy Stadium fight vs Clottey that you Sissyboy ducked that drew over 40,000 fans, more than double any fans Sissyboy ever drew.

You Sissyboy has never undergone Olympic Drug testing, nor any fighter I recall, yet many including Manny have undergone VADA testing, but not Sissyboy.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Hopefully he beefs up to 226 pounds so EO can keep copying and pasting

[oogiebe]

Hopefully he beefs up to 226 pounds so EO can keep copying and pasting

He's maddening, but hilariously predictable! Refute that if you can.

[Enlightened-One]

- L'odeur de You supercilious pretentiousness permeates every topic you befoul with your presence.

Olympic drug testing is never negotiable, DUH!

SissyboyFloyd and Manny negotiated drug testing terms that were never agreed up for their proposed March 13, 2010 date at the MGM, Double DUH!

That makes you the unholy trinity of Dumbo Dimwittery DUH!!!

You Sissyboy backed out of the date to lose his MGM deposit and his career purse. Manny made the date at the inaugural Cowboy Stadium fight vs Clottey that you Sissyboy ducked that drew over 40,000 fans, more than double any fans Sissyboy ever drew.

You Sissyboy has never undergone Olympic Drug testing, nor any fighter I recall, yet many including Manny have undergone VADA testing, but not Sissyboy.

Whenever uneducated people, such as yourself, attempt to use a combination of sarcasm, humour and insults to undermine real-world historical events that are incredibly easy to verify, they become incredibly annoyed, frustrated and outraged by irrefutable facts, such as those detailed in the post below!

[Enlightened-One]

An ESPN video from late 2009 or early 2010:



Dan Rafael (ESPN): “You talk about how he [Mayweather] agreed to go to fourteen days…

“Ever since they started negotiating this fight, one of the points Mayweather wanted from day one.

“They wanted, on the Mayweather side, he wanted rigorous drug testing from day one. Not just recently,

“So that has been on the table for a long time.”

From the same video:

Brian Kenny (ESPN): “How concerned is Manny about people saying ‘Hey, why won’t he do all this different blood testing?

“Is he hiding something? Is he juicing? How concerned is Manny about that?”

Freddie Roach (Manny Pacquiao’s long-term trainer): “I don’t think we’re too concerned about that,

“Some people are going to say that, of course, the thing is…

“Everyone acts differently about taking blood.

“And [Pacquiao] just doesn’t feel right for about three days…”

Brian Kenny (ESPN): “But Floyd is also not asking Pacquiao to do anything that he is unwilling to do.

“So I think most people see both points, they’re wondering ‘Hey, is Pacquiao doing something dirty?’ and yet other people are saying ‘Is Floyd actually reticent to fight this guy?’

Teddy Atlas (ESPN): “To me, you know you just go to the man in the street.

“You go to the regular person, the blue-collar worker that takes care of his family… those are the people that count,

“And if you ask those people, well they’re going to say one thing, and they have said, one thing as far as I’ve heard,

“And that is, ‘why would you walk away from $30m on the table, just not to take some blood, just not to take a test?’

“If you’re clean, then what do you have to hide?”



Brian Kenny (ESPN): “Floyd Mayweather said, fourteen days before the fight to the fight, you wouldn’t get tested that day of the fight.

“But a full two weeks before, you couldn’t be tested.

“What about fifteen days before the fight? Would that still bother you?”

Manny Pacquiao: “Fifteen days before the fight I’m in heavy training,

“You know it’s going to be big [disturbance] to my heavy training at that time.

“It’s not good to have blood testing on that date, because fifteen days before the fight it’s going to be heavy training.”

Here's an extract of an ESPN article published 23rd December 2009, which nobody from this forum appears to remember... or they choose not to:

Schaefer said he and Todd duBoef had "worked out all other issues related to the fight," disclosing to ESPN.com that the fight would be at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas, if they can work out the drug testing issue.

"We have agreed on all terms, including the site," Schaefer said.

"Todd told me that Pacquiao has difficulty with taking blood and doesn't want to do it so close to the fight," Richard Schaefer said. "He, Pacquiao, would only agree to have blood drawn before the kick-off press conference and after the fight."

"We're going in a different direction," Bob Arum told the Grand Rapids newspaper. "What I believe is that Floyd never really wanted the fight and this is just harassment of Pacquiao.

"We appeased Mayweather by agreeing to a urine analysis at any time, and blood testing before the press conference and after the fight. Mayweather pressed for blood testing even up to the weigh-in. He knew that Manny gets freaked out when his blood gets taken, and feels that it weakens him. This is just harassment and, to me, just signaled that he didn't want the fight."

Here's the video from 2014 that contains the following interview transcript:



Gareth A Davies (Journalist: The Telegraph): “Would you think that in the fullness of time, when people look back in history, they will see that Pacquiao is the man that Mayweather didn’t fight rather than Pacquiao didn’t get the Mayweather fight?

Freddie Roach (Manny Pacquiao’s long-time trainer): “I don’t think it’ll come across that way,

“I think people will say ‘why didn’t they fight each other?’ and blame both guys, to be honest with you,

“Because the first negotiations [in 2009], we were against the blood test. It was kind of our fault, the first time it didn’t work.”

[Enlightened-One]

[Evander]

Usyk 220 max

[The Gratest]

So, still nothing factual that Manny Pac used/uses PED's. No positive tests, no bans....just a load of hearsay and a poster with an ongoing OCD obsession in full display regurgitating his usual tripe. No change there then.

As for Usyk, we don't know how much he was possibly killing himself to make the cruiser limit. It might be an advantage to no longer have to boil down and instead come in at a more comfortable weight, which is not necessarily bulking up in a detrimental fashion. Personally, despite his obvious skills, I don't think he'll have the size and strength to compete against the supersized heavyweights. Saying that though, AJ doesn't come bulling forward in the same fashion as Chisora and that match uo could well turn into a tactical chess match, which would possibly be to his advantage.

[Enlightened-One]

So, still nothing factual that Manny Pac used/uses PED's. No positive tests, no bans....just a load of hearsay and a poster with an ongoing OCD obsession in full display regurgitating his usual tripe. No change there then.

I backed up everything I claimed.

You can't pretend I didn't.

The prime 147lbs version of Manny Pacquiao ducked Mayweather, because he didn't want to be tested! His words!

And you can't fail a drug test, if you're not even tested... or when you are, which is rare, you're allowed to be tested on your terms!

Did you follow the Pacquiao-Ariza-Rios debacle? And what about the VADA-Bradley situation? Or VADA-Thurman? I think there are valid reasons for people to speculate about Pacquiao's reasoning to reject the Mayweather fight in 2010.

Even Freddie Roach blames Pacquiao for the 2010 situation. His explanation concurred with everything I've written.

And Manny's reluctance to undergo proper testing for most of his bouts, coupled with him refusing to provide his medical records to prove he was a clean athlete during his own defamation lawsuit he filed against Mayweather, as well as walking away from a career-high legacy-defining fight against Floyd in 2010, doesn't look good.

If you’re clean, what have you got to hide?

[The Gratest]

You can repeat yourself until the cows come home kid, it's a commonly used tactic when there is no factual concrete evidence available, just repeat repeat repeat in hope that it somehow sounds convincing. As you just admitted yourself, all just speculation.
What would be convincing would be an actual failed drugs test result with resultant ban.
As already pointed out though, all you have is hearsay and your own OCD biased views. Not good enough kiddo.
Now save yourself the time of another repetitive post....unless you actually have facts that Manny Pac failed a drugs test.

[Enlightened-One]

You can repeat yourself until the cows come home kid, it's a commonly used tactic when there is no factual concrete evidence available, just repeat repeat repeat in hope that it somehow sounds convincing. As you just admitted yourself, all just speculation.
What would be convincing would be an actual failed drugs test result with resultant ban.
As already pointed out though, all you have is hearsay and your own OCD biased views. Not good enough kiddo.
Now save yourself the time of another repetitive post....unless you actually have facts that Manny Pac failed a drugs test.

Imagine a world where you owned a pig and claimed it could fly.

But you weren’t willing to prove it, by allowing others to perform tests.

Therefore, no one could disprove your theory, because you won’t allow them to. And there's no evidence to prove otherwise.

Does this mean that no one is allowed to disagree with your belief about owning a pig that can fly?

[The Gratest]

You can repeat yourself until the cows come home kid, it's a commonly used tactic when there is no factual concrete evidence available, just repeat repeat repeat in hope that it somehow sounds convincing. As you just admitted yourself, all just speculation.
What would be convincing would be an actual failed drugs test result with resultant ban.
As already pointed out though, all you have is hearsay and your own OCD biased views. Not good enough kiddo.
Now save yourself the time of another repetitive post....unless you actually have facts that Manny Pac failed a drugs test.

Imagine a world where you owned a pig and claimed it could fly.

But you weren’t willing to prove it, by allowing others to perform tests.

Therefore, no one could disprove your theory, because you won’t allow them to. And there's no evidence to prove otherwise.

Does this mean that no one is allowed to disagree with your belief about owning a pig that can fly?

A different angle but still the same end result.
No factual proof, just hearsay and OCD yet again.
Have a nice day!

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Mayweather and Pacquiao both used PEDs dont be naive.

[margaret thatcher]

dudes just need to make sure they've got their ass covered by a tue or a good masking job

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

dudes just need to make sure they've got their ass covered by a tue or a good masking job

Did you see the interview with jameel mccline where he said he took peds, everyone did, and he was proud of it?!?!? Refreshing honesty

[The Gratest]

Mayweather and Pacquiao both used PEDs dont be naive.

I'm not saying they didn't.

[candyslim]

Usyk will not face Joyce as he is not confident. He wants the big payday against AJ or Fury.

There may well be an element of that. Perhaps Usyk was surprised what a stiff argument Chisora gave him and figures Joyce is better than Chisora.

On the other hand maybe he feels he boxed rings around Joyce in WSB, and can do so again anytime, but that as interim champion, considers he shouldn't be obliged to risk that status before he gets his shot at AJ Fury. Who knows?