The great non champions

[elmersalsa]

Mike Gibbons was never the greatest fighter of his decade. Peter Jackson was the greatest fighter of his generation. The 1880s

[klompton]

Mike Gibbons’ record shits all over Peter Jacksons and he was FAR more influential in the sport. Nevermind the fact that Jackson was fighting at a time when the sport was in its infancy and there were very few professional fighters as we would regard today and even less professional trainers. The level of competition simply was not there at that time. But most here who know their ass from their elbow unlike elmersalsa know this so i suppose Im preaching to the choir.

[AntonioMartin]

Edwin Viruet was a great non-champion as well.....gave Duran all he could handle...could have probably been a WBC world champ at Junior Welter during the Mamby-Haley-Curry era..

[klompton]

Edwin Viruet was a great non-champion as well.....gave Duran all he could handle...could have probably been a WBC world champ at Junior Welter during the Mamby-Haley-Curry era..

If by giving Duran all he could handle you mean he ran all night trying to avoid getting knocked out then yeah, sure. If Viruet, who never won an important fight, is a “great” non champion then the bar for greatness is sadly low.

[AntonioMartin]

Edwin Viruet was a great non-champion as well.....gave Duran all he could handle...could have probably been a WBC world champ at Junior Welter during the Mamby-Haley-Curry era..

If by giving Duran all he could handle you mean he ran all night trying to avoid getting knocked out then yeah, sure. If Viruet, who never won an important fight, is a “great” non champion then the bar for greatness is sadly low.

Again, I wonder how'd he'd done versus the Mamby's and Haley's of the world, good but beatable world champs.

[elmersalsa]

For the forum panel's sake, there have been a lot of crying about Mike Gibbons bieng low. Well, let's swap him in places with his brother Tommy. Okay? Fair enough?

[elmersalsa]

Well, the forum wanted Mike Gibbons in a higher place. So, we swapped him with his brother Tommy:
1. Sam Langford
2. Charley Burley
3. Packey McFarland
4. Holman Williams
5. Jimmy Bivins
6. "Peerless" Jem Driscoll
7. Lloyd Marshall
8. Peter Jackson
9. Joe Jeannette
10. Billy Graham
11. Newsboy Brown
12. Billy Petrolle
13. Harry Wills
14. Sam McVaey
15. Mike Gibbons
16. Owen Moran
17. Les Darcy
18. Pedro Montañez
19. Cocoa Kid
20. Jimmy Leto
21. Young Stribbling
22. Lew Tendler
23. Kid Norfolk
24. Tommy Gibbons
25. George Godfrey
26. Lew Feldman
27. Eddie Booker
28. Georgie Abrams
29. Dave Sands
30. Dave Shade
31. Willie Joyce
32. Len Harvey
33. Gil Turner
34. Wesley Ramey

16 more to go!

What about you, Onetimeonly? Who do you got for #35?

You said Wesley Mouzon. Not good enough, buddy.

How about at #35: Percy Bassett

[dr_devious]

Jock McAvoy

[elmersalsa]

Jock McAvoy

Do you have him above Percy Bassett?

[klompton]

Edwin Viruet was a great non-champion as well.....gave Duran all he could handle...could have probably been a WBC world champ at Junior Welter during the Mamby-Haley-Curry era..

If by giving Duran all he could handle you mean he ran all night trying to avoid getting knocked out then yeah, sure. If Viruet, who never won an important fight, is a “great” non champion then the bar for greatness is sadly low.

Again, I wonder how'd he'd done versus the Mamby's and Haley's of the world, good but beatable world champs.

He fought Mamby to a draw. I dont consider Mamby or Haley great in any sense of the word either so my point stands. Viruet wasnt a "great" non champion.

[elmersalsa]

It looked like there was no an objection in the last 2 fighters mentioned: Jock McAvoy of England and American Percy Bassett

So the list looks like this:

1. Sam Langford
2. Charley Burley
3. Packey McFarland
4. Holman Williams
5. Jimmy Bivins
6. "Peerless" Jem Driscoll
7. Lloyd Marshall
8. Peter Jackson
9. Joe Jeannette
10. Billy Graham
11. Newsboy Brown
12. Billy Petrolle
13. Harry Wills
14. Sam McVaey
15. Mike Gibbons
16. Owen Moran
17. Les Darcy
18. Pedro Montañez
19. Cocoa Kid
20. Jimmy Leto
21. Young Stribbling
22. Lew Tendler
23. Kid Norfolk
24. Tommy Gibbons
25. George Godfrey
26. Lew Feldman
27. Eddie Booker
28. Georgie Abrams
29. Dave Sands
30. Dave Shade
31. Willie Joyce
32. Len Harvey
33. Gil Turner
34. Wesley Ramey
35. Jock McAvoy
36. Percy Bassett

14 more to go!

[dr_devious]

Jock McAvoy

Do you have him above Percy Bassett?

I don't know anything about Percy Bassett but I rate McAvoy as pretty much even with Len Harvey who is already on the list

[AntonioMartin]

If by giving Duran all he could handle you mean he ran all night trying to avoid getting knocked out then yeah, sure. If Viruet, who never won an important fight, is a “great” non champion then the bar for greatness is sadly low.

Again, I wonder how'd he'd done versus the Mamby's and Haley's of the world, good but beatable world champs.

He fought Mamby to a draw. I dont consider Mamby or Haley great in any sense of the word either so my point stands. Viruet wasnt a "great" non champion.

Well, Mamby and Haley, for champions, were not great as you say. You could arguably say they were great fighters because they did win world titles, but they were not great champions.

In a way, it's like when one transitions from being a toddler to a little kid, you go from being a big baby basically to being a little kid, but little kid is still bigger than big baby, so, for a non champion, Viruet was one of the top guys, at least for his time.

That doesnt mean he was Lloyd Marshall or Lew Tendler or Holman Williams great-just that he was a great non champion in his time.

[BoxBuzz]

Toss Jerry Q in there....cmon....he's Irish!

[BoxBuzz]

And Jimmy Bivins....though admittedly he's not Irish!

[scartissue]

Some names to consider:

Gaspar Ortega - beat Kid Gavilan, Tony DeMarco (twice), Benny (Kid) Paret (twice), Isaac Logart (twice), Stan Harrington (twice) and Charley Scott.

Isaac Logart - beat Virgil Akins, Gil Turner (twice), Gaspar Ortega (twice), Jorge Fernandez, Ramon Fuentes and Baby Vasquez.

Armando Muniz - beat Hegemon Lewis, Ernie Lopez, Cyde Gray, Adolph Pruitt, Pete Ranzany, Zovek Barajas and Thurman Durden.

Bennie Briscoe - beat Eddie Mustafa Muhammad, Vicente Rondon, Georgie Benton, Tony Mundine, Cyclone Hart, Kitten Hayward, Jose Gonzalez and drew with Carlos Monzon and Emile Griffith.

Joey Archer - beat Sugar Ray Robinson, Dick Tiger, Denny Moyer, Hurricane Carter, Jose Gonzalez, Holly Mims and Don Fullmer.

Spider Webb - beat Dick Tiger, Joey Giardello, Terry Downes, Rory Calhoun, Bobby Boyd, Holly Mims and Charley Joseph.

More to come.

[elmersalsa]

At #37, how about this guy?

Johnny Risko

Any objections?

[elmersalsa]

Some names to consider:

Gaspar Ortega - beat Kid Gavilan, Tony DeMarco (twice), Benny (Kid) Paret (twice), Isaac Logart (twice), Stan Harrington (twice) and Charley Scott.

Isaac Logart - beat Virgil Akins, Gil Turner (twice), Gaspar Ortega (twice), Jorge Fernandez, Ramon Fuentes and Baby Vasquez.

Armando Muniz - beat Hegemon Lewis, Ernie Lopez, Cyde Gray, Adolph Pruitt, Pete Ranzany, Zovek Barajas and Thurman Durden.

Bennie Briscoe - beat Eddie Mustafa Muhammad, Vicente Rondon, Georgie Benton, Tony Mundine, Cyclone Hart, Kitten Hayward, Jose Gonzalez and drew with Carlos Monzon and Emile Griffith.

Joey Archer - beat Sugar Ray Robinson, Dick Tiger, Denny Moyer, Hurricane Carter, Jose Gonzalez, Holly Mims and Don Fullmer.

Spider Webb - beat Dick Tiger, Joey Giardello, Terry Downes, Rory Calhoun, Bobby Boyd, Holly Mims and Charley Joseph.

More to come.

That is great selection of fighters. Some of them are top 50 of the greatest fighters that never won a world title.

[scartissue]

And a few more...

Yaqui Lopez - beat Mike Rossman, Jesse Burnett, Tony Mundine, Mike Quarry and Andy Kendall

Georgie Benton - beat Joey Giardello, Jimmy Ellis, Freddie Little, Bobby Boyd, Holly Mims and Charley Joseph

'Chillin' Charley Riley - beat Phil Terranova, Teddy Davis, Glen Flanagan, Percy Bassett and Miguel Acevedo

Octavio 'Famoso' Gomez - beat Danny Lopez, Rafael Herrera, Romeo Anaya, Bernabe Villacampo, Art Hafey, Fernando Cabanela and Fernando Atzori

Bernardo Caraballo - beat Pascual Perez, Chartchai Chionoi, Waldemir Pinto, Mimoun Ben Ali, Ramon Arias and Pierro Rollo

[BoxBuzz]

And a few more...



Octavio 'Famoso' Gomez - beat Danny Lopez,

I was in attendance, what an effin' shock that was! Though Danny beat him soundly in a rematch.

[scartissue]

And a few more...



Octavio 'Famoso' Gomez - beat Danny Lopez,

I was in attendance, what an effin' shock that was! Though Danny beat him soundly in a rematch.

That had to be cool seeing that. I also saw his fights with Cesar Deciga and Rodolfo Martinez. He wasn't a big hitter, but man, he was fast.

[Onetimeonly]

At #37, how about this guy?

Johnny Risko

Any objections?

Yes

[elmersalsa]

At #37, how about this guy?

Johnny Risko

Any objections?

Yes

Who you got?

[elmersalsa]

At #37, how about this guy?

Johnny Risko

Any objections?

Yes

How about this guy?: Ernie Schaaf

[scartissue]

At #37, how about this guy?

Johnny Risko

Any objections?

Yes

How about this guy?: Ernie Schaaf

A solid heavyweight contender, but I would still have Quarry, Folley and Machen before him.