Gammer v Williams

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 13 Jul 2006, 21:16

Thoughts on this? The board have named Williams as next in line for Gammer. If Williams turns up anywhere near as fat as he was last weekend I think Gammer will beat him on points.

states · Post by **states** » 13 Jul 2006, 21:43

My thought is that it's a disgrace that the BBBofC are offering Danny a way back into contention. I know we've got fornicate all heavyweights in this country, let alone any decent ones, but Danny is being given an opportunity he ill deserves.

If he takes this on, chances are he'll weigh over 21 stone. And I'd fancy Gammer to beat that, even though I really don't rate Gammer.

I think from now on, I'm going to regard Cruiserweight as Heavyweight in this country. The heavyweights can be a new class. Overweight, perhaps?

BunglesFingers · Post by **BunglesFingers** » 14 Jul 2006, 04:20

Can't see Williams getting out of the bakery to train for this one, they may have to winch him into the ring so Gammer can use him as a punch bag for 12 rounds.

Maybe Danny is trying reach 300lbs so he can get on disability like Homer did in The Simpsons?

http://www.medgadget.com/archives/homer_fat.gif

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 14 Jul 2006, 04:28

states wrote:My thought is that it's a disgrace that the BBBofC are offering Danny a way back into contention. I know we've got smeg all heavyweights in this country, let alone any decent ones, but Danny is being given an opportunity he ill deserves.

If he takes this on, chances are he'll weigh over 21 stone. And I'd fancy Gammer to beat that, even though I really don't rate Gammer.

I think from now on, I'm going to regard Cruiserweight as Heavyweight in this country. The heavyweights can be a new class. Overweight, perhaps?

I agree its a disgrace. But if it happens Gammer can easily outwork Williams I think, can he take Williams' big shots though? Williams' workrate has been piss poor for a while now, coincidentally with his weight ballooning and Jim "Bullshit" McDonnell proclaiming Wililams as better than ever.

Jimmy Mac has lost all credibility he had left in my book. He should disassociate himself with Wililams or retire.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 14 Jul 2006, 05:31

Good comeback fight but if Danny comes back then he should get a new trainer who won't tolerate that weight gain. :x

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 14 Jul 2006, 05:44

Max Molyneux wrote:Good comeback fight but if Danny comes back then he should get a new trainer who won't tolerate that weight gain. :x

Its a bit late for that, the weight is on him. I don't think he has anything like the sort of discipline required to shift 3 stone + of weight.

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 14 Jul 2006, 06:39

I'm in 2 minds over Jim McDonnell, he did go around saying that Williams was in excellent condition, but i thought that Williams carried the wieght ok, he didn't look overly fat to me, his arms and shoulders looked massive with muscle, and he didn't have a big over hanging belly.
So maybe Jim McDonnell did get him into reasonable shape, It could be the fact that Williams is a gym fighter and can't reproduce his best form in the actual fight when all the pressure is on him.

Or it could be that Jim McDonnell was in fact talking bollocks.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 14 Jul 2006, 06:48

Ding_Ding wrote:
Maybe Danny is trying reach 300lbs so he can get on disability like Homer did in The Simpsons?

http://www.medgadget.com/archives/homer_fat.gif

Danny's missus: Hey, Danny, you promised Jimmy Mac you wouldn't wear your dress outside.

Danny: Nuts to that. I'm going to the movies.

jomothepure · Post by **jomothepure** » 14 Jul 2006, 06:53

Well he/they must have known that coming in like that, even if not overly fat, would reduce his mobility (not to mention the balance.)

So the only tactics I could see them having (if they actually planned this weight scenario) was to KO Skelton. But he didn't, because he's lost his speed.

When you allow a guy like Skelton to showboat in front of you, you know you're fucked.

At that weight, I can't see him dealing particularly well even with Gammer, and as nickd says, I can't a lot coming off.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 14 Jul 2006, 07:50

I really think that Danny has fought his last fight.... He doesn't want it no more, he doesn't need it no more. You have to question the desire of a man who turned proffesional cause his father wanted him to and was making bets that he'd be a heavyweight champion.

I cannot understand why Skelton isn't the mandatory.... umm, who won last week? You can be Commonwealth champion and still fight for the British.

I smell something fishy to be honest... an influence here and there - "look, I've got two heavyweights doing good business for me, but one of them is fat and looking crap, he'd probably need a decent win to sell him again".

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 14 Jul 2006, 08:18

TerribleTerry wrote:
Ding_Ding wrote:
Maybe Danny is trying reach 300lbs so he can get on disability like Homer did in The Simpsons?

http://www.medgadget.com/archives/homer_fat.gif

Danny's missus: Hey, Danny, you promised Jimmy Mac you wouldn't wear your dress outside.

Danny: Nuts to that. I'm going to the movies.

Will Jimmy Mac pay for surgery?

I could imagine him saying what your joking about too.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 14 Jul 2006, 08:37

topper123 wrote:I'm in 2 minds over Jim McDonnell, he did go around saying that Williams was in excellent condition, but i thought that Williams carried the wieght ok, he didn't look overly fat to me, his arms and shoulders looked massive with muscle, and he didn't have a big over hanging belly.
So maybe Jim McDonnell did get him into reasonable shape, It could be the fact that Williams is a gym fighter and can't reproduce his best form in the actual fight when all the pressure is on him.

Or it could be that Jim McDonnell was in fact talking bollocks.

He didn't look that fat, it's true, but even so, anyone involved in physiology will tell you that the more weight you carry, the harder your heart has to work to move you around, and the quicker you will tire. In fact the more muscle bulk you add, the worse it is, you would actually be better off being just plain overweight. Look at fighters like Holmes, and Tony Tubbs neither was massively muscular and both were a bit flabby, but both were fast and threw lots and lots of punches. Similarly, despite looking ancient and old man flabby, Skelton has a good workrate.

Even if Danny's body fat percentage wasn't that high, that extra muscle bulk was a very bad idea. Williams has zero mobility now, and if he HAS added all that muscle bulk, it won't be so easy to lose, as he would have to let the muscles atrophy naturally and stop doing strength training.

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 14 Jul 2006, 08:54

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
topper123 wrote:I'm in 2 minds over Jim McDonnell, he did go around saying that Williams was in excellent condition, but i thought that Williams carried the wieght ok, he didn't look overly fat to me, his arms and shoulders looked massive with muscle, and he didn't have a big over hanging belly.
So maybe Jim McDonnell did get him into reasonable shape, It could be the fact that Williams is a gym fighter and can't reproduce his best form in the actual fight when all the pressure is on him.

Or it could be that Jim McDonnell was in fact talking bollocks.
He didn't look that fat, it's true, but even so, anyone involved in physiology will tell you that the more weight you carry, the harder your heart has to work to move you around, and the quicker you will tire. In fact the more muscle bulk you add, the worse it is, you would actually be better off being just plain overweight. Look at fighters like Holmes, and Tony Tubbs neither was massively muscular and both were a bit flabby, but both were fast and threw lots and lots of punches. Similarly, despite looking ancient and old man flabby, Skelton has a good workrate.

Even if Danny's body fat percentage wasn't that high, that extra muscle bulk was a very bad idea. Williams has zero mobility now, and if he HAS added all that muscle bulk, it won't be so easy to lose, as he would have to let the muscles atrophy naturally and stop doing strength training.

Well thats why weight lifters make bad boxers, but do you think that Danny is a gym fighter? I've obviously not seen enough of him training and sparring to say he is, did anyone here see him in a training session for the Skelton fight? if so did he look good or just as poor when training

WildWaylon · Post by **WildWaylon** » 14 Jul 2006, 14:14

"Danny is throwing everything at Gammer" and what I need is a cartoon drawing with pies and mr kipling cakes being aimed across the ring bouncing off Gammers head - By the way mrs Kipling is an exceedingly good fukc

Boxingmad · Post by **Boxingmad** » 14 Jul 2006, 14:40

Danny has actually taken the loss very badly and is refusing to speak to anyone. I get the feeling that this might be the wake-up call he has needed.

Methinks a training period with Bob Shannon is the answer(excellent article in BN today on him BTW). A good trainer and a great conditioner, plus he has that drill-sergeant mentality that Williams needs. Danny certainly does not like training, and I feel that Jimmy Mac lets him off the hook a bit, even though he's a great conditioner himself. DW needs to be hounded into shape. You do that, and we might see half of what he's capable of.

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 14 Jul 2006, 15:36

I've always liked Danny, and thought he should be beating Skelton convincingly, unfortunatly if Danny can't get himself in better shape physically and mentally then he should call it a day.

If and its a big'if' at the minute Danny can get himself in shape, then he can still offer something to the sport.
What i would hate to see is Danny being used as a punchbag. He's a good bloke and doesn't deserve that

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 14 Jul 2006, 15:47

Gym fighter my arse, Williams is just not that good simple as that. Who is it who's been saying over the years he's amazing in the gym? Jimmy fornicating 2 bob Mac thats who. And we all know what he says aint worth shit.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 14 Jul 2006, 17:56

Boxingmad - How many wake up calls does he need? Sam, Sprott 3, Klitchsko, Harrison, Skelton 1 and now Skelton 2. After all these fights he said he would reduce his weight (yes, even after Sam) and get back better. Everytime, he comes in bigger and worse.

The only time he really did wake up was after the first Francis loss. He hasn't suffered from stage fright since that one.

Gym Fighter? I am curious as to when Danny last saw a gym. Seriously though, even if Danny trained hard for the Skelton match and its not fat (yes, he didn't look 20 stone, but he didn't look in great shape either). It it is 20 stone of muscle, then he is more problems than if it is twenty stone of flap..... He's "bruno'd" up and he (like Frank) is too slow now to be serious threat.

If Danny is solid at 20 stone 8 - then its going to be tough for him to lose the weight. And he needs to lose the weight to win.

As I said, a host of British fighters would have a field day with Danny in that condition. He was waddling like Francis does now.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 14 Jul 2006, 19:24

Aye, he's had too many wake up calls.

Shame though.

Haye seems to think Danny's a good gym fighter but thing is theres no pictures much except for pads and bagwork to prove it. There was the ITV clips they were showing before the 1st Skelton fight, but they looked too paced out a little.

harrygreb · Post by **harrygreb** » 14 Jul 2006, 21:16

nooooo, you got it wrong, he said he's had too many CAKE up calls.

harrygreb · Post by **harrygreb** » 14 Jul 2006, 21:18

JOKING APART, I HOPE DANNY RETIRES AS HE IS FAR TOO NICE A FELLA
FOR ME TO WANT TO SEE HIM BOUNCED AROUND AGAIN. WITH A BIT MORE DEDICATION AND BELIEF HE COULDA BIN A REAL CONTENDER.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 15 Jul 2006, 05:43

Williams was never world class and never will be, he beat Tyson but that Tyson he beat was not a world class fighter at that stage. He went on to lose to McBride in his next fight, a guy who is not even domestic title level and was once TKO'd by Michael Murray!

Williams is a domestic class fighter and nothing more. His one crack at the European title he got a one sided 6 round pasting from Samil Sam who lets be honest is European class himself.

Williams is just not that good and never was.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 15 Jul 2006, 08:34

nickd wrote:Williams was never world class and never will be, he beat Tyson but that Tyson he beat was not a world class fighter at that stage. He went on to lose to McBride in his next fight, a guy who is not even domestic title level and was once TKO'd by Michael Murray!

Williams is a domestic class fighter and nothing more. His one crack at the European title he got a one sided 6 round pasting from Samil Sam who lets be honest is European class himself.

Williams is just not that good and never was.

I have this debate with brit guys over on the old boxingranks forum. I've always thought he had the talent had reamined (or even had in the first place) the dedication. Although, I not convinced his chin would have been up to the task and I think self doubts on his chin is part of the reason for the weight gain.

As for the Sam fight, yes it is a huge draw back to any claims of him being able to compete with the likes of Brewster, Rahman, Klitchsko's when weighing under 17stone. However, I definately think Danny took him lightly and paid the price..... you should write off someone chances at picking up a geniune belt after some loses. Otherwise, two time world champion Wladimir Klitchsko would have been completely written off after losing to Purrity. When you've seen Sam fight since, haven't you ever thought "how the feck did Danny lose to him"... I do.

Danny's 3 defeats post Sam have been when he is way overweight.

ebeneezer · Post by **ebeneezer** » 15 Jul 2006, 08:48

TerribleTerry wrote:
Ding_Ding wrote:
Maybe Danny is trying reach 300lbs so he can get on disability like Homer did in The Simpsons?

http://www.medgadget.com/archives/homer_fat.gif

Danny's missus: Hey, Danny, you promised Jimmy Mac you wouldn't wear your dress outside.

Danny: Nuts to that. I'm going to the movies.

A fridge too far.

harrygreb · Post by **harrygreb** » 15 Jul 2006, 20:53

look, danny lost to samil sam because of his head problems ie lack of self belief, loss of concentration etc those psychological symptoms we know danny suffers from. it wasnt lack of ability. i stated the reason DW never made it as a first rate contender was just this problem with his head. he is now adding loss of ambition (in the fight/before the fight) to his list of
failings.