Classic American West Coast Boxing

[chrisjs1985]

Holy shit Roger!! Please get some rest. Wishing you the speediest of recoveries!!

[dagosd2000]

Holy shit Roger!! Please get some rest. Wishing you the speediest of recoveries!!

Chris
My favorite boxing writer.I'm Ok.I've led a long good life and whatever happens happens. I've got a great family and good friends. I've done a lot of stuff and plan to do a lot more. Hope you're selling the book like hotcakes. Thanks pal.Rog

[scartissue]

I Almost Died

On April 14th I had my second hip replacement surgery.I was sent home the same day.The next day the physical therapist came over to check on me. She tested my vitals and everything was OK.Last Wednesday on the 21st the therapist came over to remove the bandages. Again she tested my vitals. My pulse rate was off the charts.She asked me if I felt all right.I told her I felt fine. She checked my pulse again and again it was 140 beats a minute with an irregular rhythm.She then phoned the doctor and he said that I needed to go to the ER for an EKG. My son Ramon drove me down and i was admitted. Again the irregular beat and the rapid pulse. I was admitted to the hospital for testing.They said that I had a traumatic reaction to the second surgery. They gave me meds and monitored my progress during the night but they couldn't get the rate down.. They gave me some ultra sound tests and found a clot on my leg and in my chest..They switched meds and during the second night I stabilized.This morning I was released with my meds and with future appointments to see the doctor.

Rog, I'm stunned! Man, it looked like everything was rosy with your quick bounce-back after surgery. You just never know. Hope you're feeling better now, my man. Keep punching!

[dagosd2000]

I Almost Died

On April 14th I had my second hip replacement surgery.I was sent home the same day.The next day the physical therapist came over to check on me. She tested my vitals and everything was OK.Last Wednesday on the 21st the therapist came over to remove the bandages. Again she tested my vitals. My pulse rate was off the charts.She asked me if I felt all right.I told her I felt fine. She checked my pulse again and again it was 140 beats a minute with an irregular rhythm.She then phoned the doctor and he said that I needed to go to the ER for an EKG. My son Ramon drove me down and i was admitted. Again the irregular beat and the rapid pulse. I was admitted to the hospital for testing.They said that I had a traumatic reaction to the second surgery. They gave me meds and monitored my progress during the night but they couldn't get the rate down.. They gave me some ultra sound tests and found a clot on my leg and in my chest..They switched meds and during the second night I stabilized.This morning I was released with my meds and with future appointments to see the doctor.

Rog, I'm stunned! Man, it looked like everything was rosy with your quick bounce-back after surgery. You just never know. Hope you're feeling better now, my man. Keep punching!

Dan
Thanks.I always felt fine.I feel fine now.They think the shock of the surgery flipped my heart rate.The meds I'm on now have set it right again. Hopefully, I'll stay that way.

[dagosd2000]

Leading With Your Chin

I watched the highlights of that UFC fight last night and come out thinking the same thing:How can these guys leave themselves so unprotected in the ring(or octagon or cage or whatever?). Their boxing skills are horrible and it's usually during the boxing portion that some guy gets cold cocked by a punch that comes from left field that sends him sprawling and then his opponent leaps on top of him and slaps him with these little forearm smacks and then the ref jumps in and stops it. Their boxing skills are crude to the point of being less than amateurish.It's a typical alley fight that doesn't give a hint of it being anything more than that.I can go out on a Saturday night to some sleazy bar and probably around closing time see two guys challenge each other to step out back and settle things.What gets me is people buy this stuff.Makes me wonder if they have an eye for talent even if it's only for art's sake.

Take two boys that know the score.Have the skills.Can see everything in front of them.A physical chess match. They don't lead with their chins. When they attack they're in position to defend. They can go at it for the full twelve if necessary never degenerating into something sloppy.

I remember watching the two Ramoses ,Sugar and Mando, go a fast smart ten up at the Olympic Auditorium. It was like to boxing PHDs drawing on everything they learned over the years and giving the crowd and lesson in post graduate prizefighting. You leave the arena with respect for both fighters. In a way there are no losers.But watching that slam fest last night leaves you thinking if that if the "U" stands for "Ultimate" in UFC then you're being ripped off unless it's an "Ultimate" ripoff.

To see boxing give way to this MMA,UFC,Octagon;whatever the bull s--t name they come up with and have the public swallow it hook,line,and sinker; then I'll live in the boxing history threads on the forum and talk about things that these Johnny Come Lately fans don't have a clue about.But then again if you'd show them of a tape of the fight with the two Ramoses they'd tell you thee wasn't enough action. I wish I was back in my prime so I could say to these jokers "Let's step out in the alley."


Sugar Ramos

[dagosd2000]

Beauty And The Beast

I remember before the first fight Julio Cesar Chavez had with Oscar De La Hoya.One of the things Julio thought he had going for him was that he was uglier than Oscar.A lot uglier. He was even smiling when he said it.Now he wasn't baiting anyone for a compliment.He thought that being ugly was kind of a reverse psychology. Being ugly more conducive to being a prizefighter.You're not supposed to be pretty,or at least good looking to be a fighter. Maybe that's OK for maybe a musician or a movie star,but fighters are supposed to look rough around the edges.

Stopping to think about it I guess Oscar is more handsome,even bordering on being pretty. Ali gloated about his prettiness,but for a Mexican fighter to brag about being anything resembling something gorgeous is setting himself up to being mocked by the boxing aficianadfos. But Oscar stayed away from that except for that time when for whatever reason he donned that fishnet lingerie and posed for some chick at a parry and those imagers made it all over the internet.Chavez must have loved that. Even Pretty Boy Floyd had a good laugh about that one.

But when Oscar and Julio got in the ring to determine who was the better fighter there was more at stake than a stat on a won/lost record. As ugly as Julio was Oscar made him more ugly.and the second go was a copy of the first one.Julio didn't like that. The aficianados spit that one out. Now it was time for someone in Mexico to hang De La Hoya by his fishnet stockings. It never happened. It was the African /American Hopkins,the Filipino Pac Man ,and the Pretty Boy who wrapped the hosiery around Oscar's neck. The thing was the aficianados were willing to give Oscar a pass on those occasions but Oscar came up dry.Mexico didn't have a problem turning their backs on him.

When Chavez caught a break when Richard Stele pulled him of Meldrick Taylor with a second to go with Julio behind on the scorecards i was happy. Another ten seconds and they might have had to take Taylor to the morgue.But there was no next round let alone ten more seconds. After the fight Julio put on a fresh shirt , hailed a cab to the airport ,and caught the first flight to Culiacan, his ugly face and all. But Julio was smiling all the way back to Mexico. A good smile always makes one a bit more handsome.

At Rick Farris' last West Coast Boxing event in LA one of Julio's matchmakers was presented with an award. Oscar was there with his entourage.People were swimming all around him. When my wife saw him she leaped from her chair and worked her way close to Oscar's table interrupting everything. She got his attention and he posed with that handsome smile of his. She took the picture but it cam out fuzzy.

I think Oscar understood everything about what happened He knew he'd make her day pausing to smile for her. My wife thinks Oscar is the most handsome fighter in the world and I'm not jealous at all.



Julio Cesar Chavez.The way he wants to remembered looking in the ring.

[dagosd2000]

The Sparring Partners Of Roger Esty

I've bent your ear enough about the time Ken Norton flattened my nose in a sparring session before you can say "You better get a 9 to 5 job" yet there were a few other heavyweights(and guys near 175 pounds)that I chased around the ring with in practice sessions.San Diego wasn't exactly a hotbed of quality big men. Most of the better boys in the Southland were up in LA. But I'll mention a few that I thought were no weak sisters. The difference between those guys and Norton was that Kenny(for whatever reason)wanted to hurt me.

There were two "Chucks" who fought at the Coliseum and up in LA and if they wanted to make a quick 1500 there was always the Silver Slipper in Las Vegas waiting.The first "Chuck" had a last name of Haynes. I think he was from Detroit,a black wispy frame,punched fast but not very hard,had good boxing skills.One day I was doing my hanging around the ring posture at the Coliseum and he saw me standing there and asked me if I wanted to give him some work. I'd seen him fight before.I liked the way he handled himself in the ring.Very efficient.Hard to lay a glove on. His flaw was that he wasn't very strong. Later he was brought to The Olympic to fight Aileen Eaton's charge Joey Orbillo and was making him miss enough that he was ahead on the cards late,but then Joey wore him down and Haynes couldn't finish the last round. His last fight was against the comeback of Kenny Norton's career and he was beaten down in 7 rounds.It was his last fight.

Well,I provided some exercise for Haynes. I couldn't hit him with a handful of birdshot. I felt if I could corner him I'd could maul him around.It was the only strategy that I could think of. Well,I did a lot of thinking .

The second "Chuck" on my list was Chuck Leslie another black heavyweight who couldn't break an egg.Again I was at the Coliseum where he saw me moping around and approached me if I could make him break a sweat. It was a deja vu like the the chase I had with Haynes.Couldn't land anything worth mentioning.Leslie also became cannon fodder during Ken Norton's comeback after Jose Luis Garcia knocked him out cold one night up at The Olympic.

The third name (and the guy who gave me the idea to write this piece)was a white fighter by the name of Gary Bates.it was mentioned on one of the threads that he was a sparring partner of Sonny Liston.That I wasn't aware of.Bates was in the Corps at Camp Pendleton and was pretty fair amatuer boxer.He then turned pro out here after his discharge.Bates was at the 32nd Street Navy Gym in National City when he saw me with my friend Gary Young who was an amateur fighter of some note. Somehow I found myself in the ring with Bates.He wasn't as skilled as the other 'Two Buck Chucks"but that didn't make it much easier for me to put something on him.Early in Norton's rise he had Bates on is stepping stone menu ala carte.

If anyone out there is reading this and thinking of becoming a fighter try to understand to learn how to defend yourself FIRST when taking boxing lessons.I'll guarantee you that the first time you get in the ring with a guy with some experience that you'll be tasting leather. And it's something you won't want to make a steady diet of.


Ken Norton

[dagosd2000]

The Matchmaker's Accident

Mickey Davies handled the matchmaking at The Olympic Auditorium and down here in San Diego at The Coliseum.I happened to sit next to him one night at The Coliseum and we got to talking a little. He told me in all the years he had been putting together the matches he never had a card that went off without a hitch.He started going through the usual gamut of excuses:car trouble,spending the night in jail and not making bail,failing the drug test,holding out for more money.and the most common-just not being up to it. He said that the card that night had to be be rearranged at the last minute.I can't remember who was on it because it was a pretty slow walk through all the rounds.

I always like the stories about how a fighter can't get in the ring for whatever reason and they pull some fighter out of the seats as a replacement. That happened when Archie Moore was to fight Big Boy Hogue at the old Lane Field that was at the foot of Broadway. They say Big Boy had driven to the ballpark and when he got out of his car cut his shin on another car's bumper. He was bleeding pretty badly. Well, Big Boy's twin brother Shorty was in attendance and jumped at the opportunity to fight Archie in the main event.The two were no strangers to each other and Shorty had beaten the Mongoose on two previous occasions.

But this would be something different. Shorty had a snoot full when asked to fill in and he was about at the end of his rope as far as being a contender. It was Charley Burley who had given him a wuppin' that started his career to go into a spin.Well,you can look it up.Archie Moore by KO in 2 rounds.It was Shorty's last fight after being on the loss end for four in a row. But it was the Burly fight that was the finisher.

I wouldn't have wanted to be a matchmaker. They talk about managers and promoters selling out the fighters.But it's a two way street.After listening to Mickey Davies I'd conclude he been in a few head on collisions in his time.


Lane Field. Gone now. Home of the old PCL Padres and the scene of the Archie Moore/Shorty Hogue fight.I never saw a fight there but took in many a ballgame.

[dagosd2000]

Boxing Gyms Of Tijuana



Cheto's Boxing Gym in Plaza Santa Cecelia



Boxeo Zona Centro between Revolution and Calle Madero



La CREA en El Rio


Makito's Gym on Constitucion Bl.



Gaspar Ortega's Gym in the Zona Norte




Erik Morales' Gym in the Zona Norte


Vargas Gym in Colonia Independencia

Strictly old school. Just boxing.The CREA and Morales' gyms were doing OK. I can't say for the others.Covid put these places on the ropes. FWI:When I got to Ortega's Gym they told me it was the last day of operations. That area is in pretty bad shape. Definitely not an place you would want to walk around at night.


This song is a fit for what's happening to these old landmarks

[dagosd2000]

Amigos

Luis Rodriguez fought all over the place.He trained mainly at Chris Dundee's 5th Street Gym in Miami with his fellow Cuban expatriates Florentino Fernandaez,Doug Valliant,Frankie Otero;and at times Jose Legra and Sugar Ramos.But when he got the call to fight in his opponent's backyard Luis would always have his bags packed and ready to go.

I saw him in the Southland on occasion and he was something else when it came to training.He was in San Diego prepping for a title eliminator with the Mexican middleweight champ Rafa Gutierrez when I made it a point to watch him go through his daily paces.Angelo Dundee showed up at the last minute which was his standard procedure when handling his "name" boys,but you could tell who was calling the shots-El Feo. there were no arguments.Dundee was getting paid and getting the recognition,and his broken Spanish handled the press.. All Rodriguez wanted to do was beat Gutierrez and then fight Nino Benvenuti for all the marbles.

While in camp(the fight was in March of 69)Luis received a visitor.Jose Napoles had just broken his U.S. cherry against a couple of set ups at the Forum and now was getting down to business to fight Curtis cokes for the welterweight championship of the world.Upon arrival both boys seemed very happy to see each other.

There was a Cuban triumvirate at the time composed of Sugar Ramos,Luis,and now Mantequilla had slipped in.Jose Legra grabbed a cup of coffee in Mexico but was enticed by the big Cuban Kid Tunero to fight on the continent.

It was a dirty no good shame that Rodriguez got screwed 3 out of 4 times fighting Emile Griffith. In fact it was a screw job in all four fights.When Luis finally got his pound of flesh against Griffith in Dodger Stadium I thought I thought Emile had done enough to win.Well,Rodriguez didn't get to savor the championship very long.Three months later in Las Vegas Luis rolled snake eyes when the judges were looking at something else instead of the fight.So Luis got to be top gun for only three months. At the time it was the shortest reign for a 147 pound champ.And this is the sticking point when it comes to the experts assessing Rodriguez. if it had been the other way around with Luis beating Emile 3 out of 4 his name would be mentioned more than just something like an afterthought when it comes to making these lists of all time greats.

My mythical fight would have been Napoles and Rodriguez.I think they had an agreement to stay away from each other. Looking at their records Luis fought better boys. Jose had cleaned out the best welters muy rapido and then a little birdie told Angelo Dundee that Jose had to much going for him and could outbox Monzon. Well,the nadir of Jose's career was his fight with Carlos.Jose trained like a dog and quit in his corner. Now you're gonna' ask me who would have won between the two Cubans.Here's my problem. Napoles is my all time favorite fighter.So I'll go with my heart. You can feed all the info into a computer and I don't give a s--t.I'll just say that Jose would win.But that's the thing with lists and mythical matchups.It's all about whose favorites get to make them up anyway.

Luis Rodriguez

[goose 5]

I scored Rodriguez-Griffith 1 in The Cuban's favor, 7-3. The 4th bout, I had Rodriguez winning 10-5. Just 2 great, great fighters.

[dagosd2000]

I scored Rodriguez-Griffith 1 in The Cuban's favor, 7-3. The 4th bout, I had Rodriguez winning 10-5. Just 2 great, great fighters.

Goose
I thought the 2nd bout was even more convincing for Rodriguez.it was the 3rd one in LA where I thought he didn't deserve the decision. Griffith griped pretty loud about it afterwards.It was those 4 bouts, if it had been reversed in Luis' favor, that would have landed Rodrigueuz in the IBHOF in it's first year.

[dagosd2000]

Waiting Around

Anytime there was a big fight lined up in TJ the principals would sure to make an appearance at La Crea Gym in the Rio section of town.It was as exciting as seeing the fight itself.Mexican fighters wanted to say that they broke a sweat at the old landmark. When Mexican boxing was at its apex during the 60's,70's,and 80's, La Crea was the in spot as far as Mexican fighting sweatboxes. Even fighters like Erik Morales and Tony Margarito who had their own gyms in the city acknowledged that La Crea was the place to be seen. During my aficianado days I'd drop in to see all the great Mexican fighters go through their paces at La Crea. Jose Napoles,Vicente Saldivar,Ruben Olivares,Baby Vasquez,Jibaro Perez.Maramero Perez,Dinamita Estrada,Chango Carmona,Famoso Gomez,Marcos Geraldo,Julio Guerrero,Julio Cesar Chavez.Morales and Margarito even played hooky from their gyms to put on a show at La Crea.

La Crea was like one of those Philly Gyms. You had to have "juevos" if you wanted to work out with the name guys.Any weak knees and you'd near about it.The guy in charge was Romulo Quirarte.He handled everyone who wanted to get in the ring and workout. Jibaro Perez was his main attraction.Jibaro had married his daughter and he was the champ, and then he got himself all caught up with the fame and glory. He was buying the world a drink including himself and he never turned down a line of coke or a fast woman.

LA Crea is still struggling along.Quirarte still has the key to the place.But there are no more Jibaros on the horizon unless you want to call Jibaro Jr. a fighter.He's a dentist by trade and goes to La Crea for old times sake. The girls come in and band together in the corner of the gym.Funny,the girls still separate themselves from the men as is custom in the Latino macho world.The irony is that the split tails are the more promising fighters. Kenia Enriquez and Jackie Nava showed more clout inside the gym than their male counterparts.

With the Covid thing going around the gyms in TJ are pretty much quiet.The fighters wait.Romulo Quirate waits.And the aficianados listen to the news to see what Canelo is up to.Waiting is a part of the culture.Not like here where people want it yesterday.In Mexico if it happens it happens.If not they'll just have to wait.


Jibaro Perez Jr. at his grandpa's gym

[scartissue]

I scored Rodriguez-Griffith 1 in The Cuban's favor, 7-3. The 4th bout, I had Rodriguez winning 10-5. Just 2 great, great fighters.

Goose
I thought the 2nd bout was even more convincing for Rodriguez.it was the 3rd one in LA where I thought he didn't deserve the decision. Griffith griped pretty loud about it afterwards.It was those 4 bouts, if it had been reversed in Luis' favor, that would have landed Rodrigueuz in the IBHOF in it's first year.

Goose and Rog, the only bout of their 4 bout series I did not see was their 2nd, in which Rodriguez won. I just thought the film's quality was too poor to really give a good assessment. However, using the scoring methods of the respective locales, I scored their first fight 6-3-1 for Luis, their 3rd encounter 8-3-4 for Luis and their 4th bout 71-65 for Luis. I simply could not make a case for Griffith winning any of these. I just felt Rodriguez outworked him in these 3 bouts.

[dagosd2000]

I scored Rodriguez-Griffith 1 in The Cuban's favor, 7-3. The 4th bout, I had Rodriguez winning 10-5. Just 2 great, great fighters.

Goose
I thought the 2nd bout was even more convincing for Rodriguez.it was the 3rd one in LA where I thought he didn't deserve the decision. Griffith griped pretty loud about it afterwards.It was those 4 bouts, if it had been reversed in Luis' favor, that would have landed Rodrigueuz in the IBHOF in it's first year.

Goose and Rog, the only bout of their 4 bout series I did not see was their 2nd, in which Rodriguez won. I just thought the film's quality was too poor to really give a good assessment. However, using the scoring methods of the respective locales, I scored their first fight 6-3-1 for Luis, their 3rd encounter 8-3-4 for Luis and their 4th bout 71-65 for Luis. I simply could not make a case for Griffith winning any of these. I just felt Rodriguez outworked him in these 3 bouts.

Dan and Goose ,I stand corrected. Rodriguez won the second fight which I thought he lost.That was at Dodger Stadium.Three months later he lost the title back to Griffith in Las Vegas.I saw all the fights live on TV with my father.With the exception of fight number 2, Rodriguez handled Emile pretty smoothly.I asked Emile at the WBHOF convention in LA who was his the best he faced and he said Napoles.He could have also said Rodriguez but I think the rivalry was always pretty heated between the two.


Two great fighters-Emile Griffith and Gaspar Ortega at the WBHOF ceremony.The guy in the middle was some gum that walked in from the street.

[dagosd2000]

Then And Now

Talking about the 4 fight series with Rodriguez and Griffith.Man.I never like Emile Griffith.I remember when the slugging machine from Philly ,Charley Scott was fighting taking peoples' breaths away and it looked like he was going to get his shot and then he ran into Benny Paret in the Garden and all these guys did all night was trade punch after punch.Charley came up a little short but it was a day when you naturally put the two boys back together. And again it was Benny who got his hand raised.

So now it's Benny who gets the shot against the indifferent Don Jordan for welterweight honors in Las Vegas,the first time a title fight was held in Sin City,and from the start Jordan couldn't keep the pace.But it was in time when the 147 pounders were loaded with talent. There'd be no weak sisters awaiting Benny Paret.It was sooner or later that Emile Griffith would get his chance.

Well, it was no secret that Griffith was gay. He was a tremendous fighter,but he was gay. Can't have that to be a fighter let alone a champ.His demeanor wasn't Jack Dempsey enough. But the SOB could fight and he was smart,but he was a limp wrist.Paret and Griffith squared off in Miami for the works and it was again one of those you can hit me so i could hit you kind of affairs.But Benny's disregard for defense was wearing him down. Griffith ended it in the hard luck round taking the crown.But like i said it was a time when the public demanded to see that kind of stuff again and what the public wanted they got.

They had the rematch in The Garden and Benny put everything he had in it to win a split decision and regain the championship.The rubber match was a no brainer.But Benny was a hurt fighter. He complained to his manager to have headaches after fighting Federico Thompson but his manager tried to pacify him by saying "All fighters get headaches."Then he was mismatched with the thugging machine Gene Fullmer, and it was very hard to watch.Then there was the rubber match Griffith and that was one of the all time hardest fights to watch.

Yeah,there was Paret before the fight grabbing Emile's ass and mocking him about designing lady's hats and that got Emile steamed and when Benny died before he sank to the canvas I wanted to put out a reward for someone to get Emile Griffith.

When Hurricane Carter exploded a bomb on Emile I was SO happy.But inside the dressing room after the fight Griffith wished everybody a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Then things began to happen to me over time. The years roll along,attitudes shift,you see things differently. Griffith went up to fight middleweights with a dip in weight to fight Jose Naplos,but he couldn't punch with the bigger men and the years were piling up.. Benvenuti was very strong.Monzon, even stronger.

Griffith as great as he once was was no longer great and like so many past greats hung in there too long.I met him at a couple of LA boxing conventions. He was in the throes of dementia by then.A very frightened man. His caretaker had o be with him all the time.All the fights and then getting mugged coming out of a gay bar in New York had manifested him with a a paranoia that we didn't want to see but had to swallow. He was easy to talk to but very worried.He had a stack of those autobiographies that he didn't write but I bought one and he signed my copy.He seemed to melt away.Just sitting in the lobby overwhelmed him. I remember one time he was residing on the same floor at The Sheraton as my wife and I and I saw him with his nose at the elevator crying. He was hungry and he wanted something to eat. His caretaker took him by the arm and got him to the dining room.

Looking back when I hated Emile Grifith,the reasons being that he liked sex his way and not my way,I got scared.Scared at myself. I tried to put that together and finally concluded that I wasn't the same person anymore.I hated that dude.

The other day I went on my Mike Tyson tirade. I said if you looked up "asshole" in the dictionary you'd see his face. If you turn the clock back you could have looked up "asshole' in the dictionary and I'd be staring back a ya'.The thing was I didn't know it at the time.

Emile Griffith

[dagosd2000]

Wakeup Call

So when did i realize i didn't hate Emile Griffith anymore for being gay? "Hate" is a strong word but I'll use it because it probably gets to the point better than if I said "didn't like."Well,I don't really now because In time I had waded into a mind set that I had never hated Emile Griffith because of his sexual preferences.

I admit seeing him at the various boxing conventions shook up my mind. Yeah,now it comes back. i hated the guy. But I couldn't believe it. Or at least it seemed impossible that I was homophobic. But why is that? I guess I wanted everyone to know that I was a tough guy.A man's man. So I'd bash gays.So i bashed Emile Griffith.

Because of Griffith's physical state and perhaps because it was no secret that he was gay he didn't draw much of a crowd at those conventions.He was very paranoid so you didn't want to interact with him much. One moron went up to him with a photograph of him hovering over the mortally wounded Paret in the corner of that fateful last round wanting Griffith to put down his autograph.He signed it without looking.

Now Bobby Chacon was also in the throes of the dementia but his manner was of a impish child.The creeps were more than happy to laugh at his expense.

I often write about the good ol' days. But most of the time it's about the good ol' stuff.I leave out the errors.The crassness.The stupidity.The people I hurt. In order to live I made up my own fantasy world and adhered to all the illusions.And when one illusion didn't work anymore I'd make up another to replace it making sure the aim hit my self serving bullseye.

I can't say that "I'm one of those guys who says "I wish I knew then what I know now."If I knew then what I know now I don't think I'd be here.It was the fantasies,good and bad,that got me through it to the present. Now it's biting me in the ass.But at least I don't have that stupid notion about Emile Griffith anymore.


Emile posing with my better half

[dagosd2000]

Twilight

"Foster's the champ and no one can beat him right now,"said Jimmy Rosette.
I was standing next to him in inside the 32nd Street Navy Gym as he was ready to get in the ring and spar with my friend Gary young.
"I've never seen a light heavyweight dominate the division like him since Archie Moore,"I said.
"They can put all those other contenders together and it all comes out the same. There's Bob Foster and all the rest."


Jimmy Rosette was not an uncommon story in San Diego.Jimmy was born in the Deep South and to get a different perspective on the world joined the service. He was in the Navy.He liked boxing and was pretty good at it qualifying for an Olympic berth.He didn't get very far but the boxing kept him away from enemy fire.When he got his discharge he returned to San Diego where he was stationed and resumed fighting, but this time doing it for money.Ken Norton could tell a similar story. A recruit at MCRD Norton also was a pretty good service fighter and then after getting his discharge launched his pro career in San Diego.

But Rosette didn't catch on like Norton.He fought mainly around middleweight and light heavy.The black fighter was a southpaw who didn't want to push the pace too hard. He was like a Joey Maxim who wanted to go the distance and get the decision.He wasn't in there to slug it out.He had enough skills to call himself "crafty" but he couldn't get the fans to stand up and cheer much.They didn't hate him.In fact Jimmy's easy going Deep South manner made him friends if nothing else.I never heard a Bronx cheer when Jimmy was announced to the crowd.

When I was talking to him that day at the 32nd Street Navy Gym in National City he was pretty much shot. This must have been in the early 1970's.He had fought all the familiar faces in town like Jimmy Baldwin,Charlie Austin,Gary Bates,Hank Casey,Jimmy Lester,and Roger Rouse. He could old his own at one time but now he couldn't go the distance anymore. He was in the "set up" list category of fighter whose purpose was to make the up and comer look good.

My friend Gary had warmed up and was ready to climb into the ring when Rosette turned to me.
"Going in the Navy was the best thing that ever happened to me."
"How's that?"
"I got to get out of Louisiana and see the world.I think everyone should go into the Navy."
"What did you do in Louisiana?"
"My family were sharecroppers."
Jimmy took off his robe and followed my friend Gary into the ring.As they were sparring I thought about what Rosette had just said. I think he was a pretty happy man.


San Diego. Still pretty much a Navy town.

[dagosd2000]

A Wolf In Sheep's Clothing

The other day when i was rattling off names of familiar fighters that gave the fans their whole dollar and fifty cents worth for the price of admission was a Mexican home bread, Lobito Montoya. I used to get him confused with another Mexican national banger,Famoso Gomez.It seemed just about every week you could find Montoya scuffing his boxing shoes in a rosin box in one of the Southland arena venues.I first saw him fight in Tijuana when he could hold his own with just about anybody at 135 pounds.

Lobito was that typical old school Mexican fighter who said let me throw my left hook and you could do whatever you want. Just ley me unload the left.He was as raw as day old old pulque but as long as he was free to use that hook he was as happy as a mariachi singing at dawn in front of his novia's window.

The first time I saw him fight was in Tijuana at the Auditorium against the Chicano cutie pie Petey Gonzalez. Gonzalez would see that left coming in plenty of time and would slip it and counter and then set up again to try something of his own. The fans were in Montoya's corner but when Gonzalez got his hand raised their were no chairs thrown into the ring.

I don't know when it was when Montoya started to hit the skids. He was matched with the Cuban exile Baby Luis for the California State Lightweight Tile and lost the decision.After that he began piling up losing streaks.I saw him fight a hard fought draw with Mike Mayan at the Coliseum.And then then there was a two fight series with the up and coming Jimmy Heair.Jimmy was undefeated and was starting to get the aficianados' attention with his corn pone Tennessee pugnaciousness in the process of beating up the Latino fighters.Lobito lost twice but at that stage of his career it was time for him to go back to Jalisco to the ranch and rope some steers.I saw him fight a Jimmy Heair clone at The Coliseum named Randy Shields and after that fight Lobito was at the bus station with a one way ticket to his Patria Chica.

But whether Montoya was at the top of his game ,or when he couldn't throw the left hook the way he wanted anymore, everyone was still on the edge of their seats hoping he'd get at least one more good one in.



As familiar to a guy like Lobito Montoya as the inside of a boxing ring.

[dagosd2000]

The Short Life Of The Baby

If i were to tell you that there was a fighter who KO'd the great Vicente Saldivar handing him his first professional loss,and in addition,this guy also had his way with another great,Jose Legra,dumping him on his rump twice on his was to an easy decision; yet he was never a champion. There would be enough fodder to bring up his name on this ever going thread "The Great Non Champions."

But there's really not too much anyone knows about this fighter unless you knew he was one of the fortunate to get out of Cuba before the dictator Fidel thought that professional boxing was detrimental to the wholesomeness of a human being. The fighter I'm talking about was Emiro Marin.Still doesn't ring a bell? His fighting moniker was Baby Luis. Ring a ding

I remember first seeing him fight on replay on that Sunday afternoon show broadcast from Mexico D.C. that featured highlights of the weekly fights and then an addendum of a past great fights involving Mexican fighters. For some dumb reason those fights are now property of the government and they've decided that they are national treasures and have put them away in some vault for safe keeping.How we all suffer.

But I can say I remember Baby Luis. He was in Dundee's 5th Street Gym that featured those colorful Cubans like Logart,El Feo,The Pocket Ali,Florentino,Vailliant,and Otero. Unfortunates like Ciro Morasen (Mantequilla's idol) and Puppy Garcia couldn't make their break.Morasen committed suicide and Garcia finally got to Miami but it was too late for him to finish boxing.

But from what I remember, Baby Luis was as good as any of them. Sugar Ramos and Napoles went to Mexico and set up their base. Luis fought there too. I didn't know much about him except about what i saw on that grainy black and white film on Sundays.I though he was as a complete a fighter as there ever was-he could box with the best,he could adapt andsee what was in front of him,and he had a good sock in either hand.

After beating Saldivar I thought it would be Luis who would rise to the top and win a world championship.But then he lost his fistic rudder somewhere along the way and drifted into the doldrums. Found out later it was his penchant for dope and thinking it was easier to make a living selling the stuff that led to his untimely death from a drug deal gone bad.That was in 1970.

I couldn't find even a picture of him on the internet. He's a story lost and there doesn't seem any that want to tell it. If only the Mexican government would let us see some of those old fights.Why hold back? Like his life it doesn't add up.

[scartissue]

The Short Life Of The Baby

If i were to tell you that there was a fighter who KO'd the great Vicente Saldivar handing him his first professional loss,and in addition,this guy also had his way with another great,Jose Legra,dumping him on his rump twice on his was to an easy decision; yet he was never a champion. There would be enough fodder to bring up his name on this ever going thread "The Great Non Champions."

But there's really not too much anyone knows about this fighter unless you knew he was one of the fortunate to get out of Cuba before the dictator Fidel thought that professional boxing was detrimental to the wholesomeness of a human being. The fighter I'm talking about was Emiro Marin.Still doesn't ring a bell? His fighting moniker was Baby Luis. Ring a ding

I remember first seeing him fight on replay on that Sunday afternoon show broadcast from Mexico D.C. that featured highlights of the weekly fights and then an addendum of a past great fights involving Mexican fighters. For some dumb reason those fights are now property of the government and they've decided that they are national treasures and have put them away in some vault for safe keeping.How we all suffer.

But I can say I remember Baby Luis. He was in Dundee's 5th Street Gym that featured those colorful Cubans like Logart,El Feo,The Pocket Ali,Florentino,Vailliant,and Otero. Unfortunates like Ciro Morasen (Mantequilla's idol) and Puppy Garcia couldn't make their break.Morasen committed suicide and Garcia finally got to Miami but it was too late for him to finish boxing.

But from what I remember, Baby Luis was as good as any of them. Sugar Ramos and Napoles went to Mexico and set up their base. Luis fought there too. I didn't know much about him except about what i saw on that grainy black and white film on Sundays.I though he was as a complete a fighter as there ever was-he could box with the best,he could adapt andsee what was in front of him,and he had a good sock in either hand.

After beating Saldivar I thought it would be Luis who would rise to the top and win a world championship.But then he lost his fistic rudder somewhere along the way and drifted into the doldrums. Found out later it was his penchant for dope and thinking it was easier to make a living selling the stuff that led to his untimely death from a drug deal gone bad.That was in 1970.

I couldn't find even a picture of him on the internet. He's a story lost and there doesn't seem any that want to tell it. If only the Mexican government would let us see some of those old fights.Why hold back? Like his life it doesn't add up.

Rog, this was the only time I saw Baby Luis fight. Against Howard Winstone. I don't know if he was in opponent stage by this time but as you could see from what I wrote (this is about 5 years ago), I was impressed with both of them and their skill level at pure boxing.




With the recent comments on Howard Winstone I was checking out some of his bouts and found this gem. His 10 rounder with Baby Luis. I am really stunned at the clarity of the film - very sharp. And if you like nice boxing then you will love this fight. Winstone the aggressor behind that terrific jab of his and Luis the counter-puncher. I gave 9 rounds to Winstone, scoring only the 8th for Luis, but don't you believe the numbers. Every round was closely contested. This is really fine boxing.

[dagosd2000]

[quote=dagosd2000 post_id=5546964 time=1620330523 user_id=12971

Rog, this was the only time I saw Baby Luis fight. Against Howard Winstone. I don't know if he was in opponent stage by this time but as you could see from what I wrote (this is about 5 years ago), I was impressed with both of them and their skill level at pure boxing.




With the recent comments on Howard Winstone I was checking out some of his bouts and found this gem. His 10 rounder with Baby Luis. I am really stunned at the clarity of the film - very sharp. And if you like nice boxing then you will love this fight. Winstone the aggressor behind that terrific jab of his and Luis the counter-puncher. I gave 9 rounds to Winstone, scoring only the 8th for Luis, but don't you believe the numbers. Every round was closely contested. This is really fine boxing.

Thanks pal,I got right on it. By this time I think Luis was on his way down. He'd lost the rematch with Saldivar.I don't remember seeing this fight but it was make or break for Luis and after this he let go of the rope.

I think the old Cuban fighters were born with a "special boxing gene."

[dagosd2000]

How Long Has This Been Going On?

You watch a fighter like Matthew Saad Muhammad and you wonder how long can he go on fighting like that?I saw him fight the African Lotte Mwale at The Sports Arena in San Diego on a Friday night in 1981.Saad Muhammad had his title on the line,but with that up for grabs there wasn't much of a turnout. Mostly a lot of empty seats and even just prior to the main event there weren't that many late arrivals.

But Muhammad's allure was that he was a very slow starter who looked like he'd never get into the fight,but eventually the other guy would get tired hitting him and then Saad Muhammad would put on a rally and pull out a victory from the jaws of defeat to use the cliche.It was getting predictable.Saad Muhammad would take shot after shot and look like he was going to fold but he must have had one of those slow heart rates because he'd still be on his feet by the time his opponent's tank would be running on fumes.His fights with the tough Yaqui Lopez and Marvin Johnson were examples of a typical Saad Muhammad MO.I don't think the fans ever left the arena saying they got stiffed.

I went to the fight by myself. Ringside seats weren't out of line so I sat with the aristocrats.There was one of those Monday Night Football Games to be played at the San Diego Stadium that weekend .The Chargers were going to play The Kansas City Chiefs and I found myself sitting next to some of the celebrities.. There were commentators Frank Gifford and Don Meredith,and they brought along the coach of The Chiefs,Hank Stram.They were having a jolly good time and from I gathered they were mostly yakking about the upcoming game rather than the fight.

When Saad Muhammad and Mwale got into the ring there wasn't that feeling of "electricity" that should accompany a world title fight. I thought they misplaced the fight. It should have been back East or maybe in Africa,but San Diego I couldn't put together.

Well,it started off by the usual script. Saad Muhammad was moping around getting tagged so I hitched up my belt waiting for the ebb and flow to start in the late rounds.But in the 4th they got into an exchange and the next thing you know referee Tony Perez had counted the fallen Mwale out.The pigskin boys were still talking X's and O's and about the good ol' days of leather helmets as everybody started to filter out the arena.

But like I started off this passage;when was Saad Muhammad finally to be unable to pull the rabbit out of the hat? A year later it would be that fireplug Dwight Qawi who wouldn't fold against the brave Philly fighter and yank his jeweled belt from his midsection. Of course we wanted to see that kind of action again,but this time it would be a sooner demise for Saad Muhammad. But the tragedy didn't end there. Saad Muhammad would become a character in a Serling play and wind up somewhere where you wouldn't want to take your wife and kids.

He was a throw away 5 year old who was thrown under a bridge by a relative who didn't want to deal with him and could have at least dropped him off in front of an orphanage. But that's where the police took him to the nuns who named him Matthew which means "the Chosen One."They talk about fighting being a poor man's out. What an understatement.


Matthew Saad Muhammad

[goose 5]

Great post, Roger. Matthew Saad Muhammad is maybe my favorite fighter of the last 50 years. A good friend of mine went to Halifax, Nova Scotia to see him defend the title. Like the San Diego bout, it drew flies. Just recently, somebody posted a video on youtube of Saad Muhammad sparring with Tommy Hearns from 1988. It's well worth a watch.

[dagosd2000]

Great post, Roger. Matthew Saad Muhammad is maybe my favorite fighter of the last 50 years. A good friend of mine went to Halifax, Nova Scotia to see him defend the title. Like the San Diego bout, it drew flies. Just recently, somebody posted a video on youtube of Saad Muhammad sparring with Tommy Hearns from 1988. It's well worth a watch.

Goose,Thanks for sharing that. You know,you see a fighter like Saad Muhammad who surmounted the impossible winning the world championship under conditions that were even most stressful for the average fighter,and then you say to yourself"What happens when it's over?"About all we can do is write about the broken pieces.