Saul 'Canelo' Alvarez vs. Billy Joe Saunders - 8 May 2021

[coghaugen11]

PS Texas is right on the Mexican border

There was no coming out of any pandemic back then. Chavez is a GOD to Canelo - he’ll never surpass him. Ever.

[coghaugen11]

There are 135m people in Mexico; you’d surely expect at least 135,000 - 1 in 1000 - to cross the border to support their best current sportsman. I’m surprised double the tickets weren’t sold because the stadium is big enough.

Not sure what their sport on TV situation is, if they have much access to boxing. They should - it’s a wonderful sport; besides the likes of Billy Joe Saunders who turn people off it.

[mickey1975]

I wasn't aware Chavez was super middle.

[Nondescript]

I'm calling it here, Saunders gets stopped to the body.

[ShadrachSimmo]

When you think of the great British boxing journalists down the years - Colin Hart, Harry Mullan, Ken Jones, and Steve Lillis - I don’t think any of them would go out on a limb and pick leisure centre Saunders to win this. In way over his head.

Excluding Froch and Groves, which other British super middles have fought in a fight f this magnitude?

Calzaghe.

[Nondescript]

Both men looking very well

Get on Bill!

I have to say, Saunders is looking and sounding very confident and I don't think he's faking it. I think that's genuine confidence. That's interesting.

He has absolutely everything against him. Regardless of everything else (judges, ref, crowd, whatever), Canelo is a complete tank. Probably about 70% of the lads that train at the gym I go to are on steroids of some kind, and apart from the Trem honey monsters who can barely move, they don't look anywhere near as unnatural as Alvarez. He has such a weird physique, there's no way I'd look at him in the gym and think he was natty.

I'd never thought I'd say this, but come on Billy Joe Saunders!

The thing I find scary about him, is that no matter what kind of shot he seems to get hit with, he barely seems to acknowledge it, let alone look bothered by it. That must be disconcerting as an opponent. I watched his fight back with Smith, and Callum landed some heavy shots at times, and Canelo just kept plodding forward unperturbed. By the end of the fight, going off Smith's body language, you could tell he was just waiting for and hoping for the final bell. His arm was all jacked up and swollen from the shots Canelo was hitting him with that high guard he has.

BJS does have an advantage in that he does possess better mobility than Callum though.

I feel like Caleb Plant could provide an awkward night for Canelo. He's got very quick hands and moves very well. Better than Saunders imo.

[MightyWarrior]

Yeah his chances are slim of course, it’s a peashooter vs a tank - and yes the Mexican looks almost supernaturally tough, definitely still on the juice ..pretty much do whatever you want south of the border.

Interesting to hear Roy Jones saying he thinks BJS has a decent chance, for the reasons already discussed here: southpaw slicksters giving the man trouble in the past.

Yes yes no need to pile on and tell me how BJS is definitely getting vaporised tonight

It’s funny I want him to do well, because obviously he comes over as an obnoxious twat - but let’s be real, he is definitely no worse than tank Davies and Mayweather - and when you’re watching those to put on a masterclass, you’re prob not always thinking well he didn’t look so great when he was punching his girlfriend...

Billy Joe looked quite weight drained surprisingly...

[margaret thatcher]

the supposed tough fights canelo had vs southpaws.....do people mean lara and trout? the trout fight was 8 years ago vs a vastly less experienced and developed canelo, not to mention trout won rounds more with work rate than any slickness.

the lara fight was more of a negative slickster type style, but canelo still won that and has gotten better, clearly peaking atm physically and skillwise. i think prime lara > bjs too


btw....billy at 168 is defo worse than at 160, this point doesnt get enough attention. bill hasnt been some masterclass slickster at all as a smw. he's been slower on his feet and got hurt worse than at any point in his career. he was also 96-94/94-96 on the cards just 2 fights ago vs that rando argie. imagine canelo having the same struggle

[MightyWarrior]

Jones believes the tricky boxing style of Saunders will create potential problems for Canelo.

"I give Billy Joe a really good chance. The reason being is because if you think about Canelo Alvarez, the toughest two fights he's had in his career to me were Floyd Mayweather Jr., who's a pure boxer, and a southpaw by the name of Erislandy Lara, who was a boxer," Jones told IFL TV.

"So if you think about those two guys, who's Billy Joe closely related to the boxing ring? Those two guys. He's a boxer, he's southpaw, and he can punch, but he thinks boxing first, much like Tyson Fury. When you got a guy like that, the only problem Billy Joe's gonna have is, can he last long enough early to get to those late rounds without sustaining any injuries, cuts, headbutts, anything.

"He has to figure out how to make up for that ring rust before he gets in there, because if he can get into the fight right away, he has a very good chance of winning it. If he doesn't get into the fight right away, then he'll get blown away, but he's a very smart guy, he's a boxer, he's a smart boxer. With that being said, he should have a chance in this fight."

[Switch hitter]

the supposed tough fights canelo had vs southpaws.....do people mean lara and trout? the trout fight was 8 years ago vs a vastly less experienced and developed canelo, not to mention trout won rounds more with work rate than any slickness.

the lara fight was more of a negative slickster type style, but canelo still won that and has gotten better, clearly peaking atm physically and skillwise. i think prime lara > bjs too


btw....billy at 168 is defo worse than at 160, this point doesnt get enough attention. bill hasnt been some masterclass slickster at all as a smw. he's been slower on his feet and got hurt worse than at any point in his career.

Billy Joe does look slower at this weight and not really boxed anyone decent at the weight either to see if it really suits him. He does look a lot trimmer at the weigh in though ...... dont know if that shows anything or help him. Canelo looks slower too but looks as if he's hitting harder too.

[MightyWarrior]

Also regarding Canelo being the good guy in this fight ...now I think we all know, he was, and still is, on the juice - now imagine god forbid if he’d seriously injured ..say Amir Khan, or worse ...imagine how he’d be seen then ? in prison if it was proven

[MightyWarrior]

"Roy Jones Jr is another fighter who believes Amir Khan has a real chance at upsetting Canelo Alvarez"

https://www.badlefthook.com/2016/5/7/11 ... he-matchup

Ok...well if he’d kept his hands up…..

[mickey1975]

Do people forget Canelo was a welter?

[margaret thatcher]

you mean like 20 year old canelo from a decade ago?

[margaret thatcher]

actually been 11 years since he made welter, he was 19 at the time

im sure if bill was fighting 19 year old welter canelo he'd have a dandy shot mick

but now he's a tank of a dude who has beat world class light heavys ,smws, and mws

[mickey1975]

you mean like 20 year old canelo from a decade ago?

Yes. I know people who've stayed the same weight since ams. Hes not a naturally bigger man fhan Bjs.

[margaret thatcher]

btw, i dont know if canelo is continually wearing lifts, or if saunders is actually shorter than claimed, but im surprised by how close in height they look. i havent noticed canelo looking shorter compared to his opponents in the ring than he did in press photos, so im inclined to believe it's close to the actual height difference

[margaret thatcher]

you mean like 20 year old canelo from a decade ago?

Yes. I know people who've stayed the same weight since ams. Hes not a naturally bigger man fhan Bjs.

mate it varies widely by person, i can give anecdotes too about fighters i know who've gotten much bigger since they were teenagers. olek usyk was fighting at 165 when he was 19, certainly he's not the same size as current smws like bill and canelo is he?

i dont think ppl are going with canelo because he's some giant over bjs or anything either, he's simply a superior fighter with vastly superior experience to boot

and tbh, bill hasnt looked impressive at all at 168

[mickey1975]

you mean like 20 year old canelo from a decade ago?

Yes. I know people who've stayed the same weight since ams. Hes not a naturally bigger man fhan Bjs.

mate it varies widely by person, i can give anecdotes too about fighters i know who've gotten much bigger since they were teenagers. olek usyk was fighting at 165 when he was 19, certainly he's not the same size as current smws like bill and canelo is he?

i dont think ppl are going with canelo because he's some giant over bjs or anything either, he's simply a superior fighter with vastly superior experience to boot

Im not even tipping Billy here, but do you think turning over at 15 is better experience than qualifying for the Olympics at 17?

[margaret thatcher]

oh, im sure bjs accumulated more experience for 3 round fence offs than canelo did

as pros though

canelo: sergey kovalev, gggx2, floyd mayweather, miguel cotto, erislandy lara, daniel jacobs, austin trout, callum smith, shane mosely. hell , even chavez jr KO'd andy lee!

bjs: david lemiux, eubank jr, andy lee, john ryder....martin murray and nick blackwell?

[mickey1975]

oh, im sure bjs accumulated more experience for 3 round fence offs than canelo did

as pros though

canelo: sergey kovalev, gggx2, floyd mayweather, miguel cotto, erislandy lara, daniel jacobs, austin trout, callum smith, shane mosely. hell , even chavez jr KO'd andy lee!

bjs: david lemiux, eubank jr, andy lee, john ryder....martin murray and nick blackwell?

Floyd schooled him. Cotto was done. Lara won in my eyes, Trout was very close, Mosely about 50.... we will see.

[mickey1975]

Kov shot to bits as well.

[mickey1975]

Ggg fight one?

[maverick23]

oh, im sure bjs accumulated more experience for 3 round fence offs than canelo did

as pros though

canelo: sergey kovalev, gggx2, floyd mayweather, miguel cotto, erislandy lara, daniel jacobs, austin trout, callum smith, shane mosely. hell , even chavez jr KO'd andy lee!

bjs: david lemiux, eubank jr, andy lee, john ryder....martin murray and nick blackwell?

Floyd schooled him. Cotto was done. Lara won in my eyes, Trout was very close, Mosely about 50.... we will see.

Those fights were still really good for his experience though. He would have learnt loads being schooled by Floyd.

[margaret thatcher]

lol how many different arguments are you gonna shifit too

first it was weight, then when i responded it becomes experience, now when that obviously doesnt work for you it's not experience but results that count. and btw canelo has only ever lost to an easy atg


those fights all helped build great experience for canelo, no matter the outcome of them. as a boxing man, you obviously know that you dont need to win all the contests to gain something from them. but even then, if thats the game, we can slant bjs just as negative:

easily could've had the decision go the other way vs mediocre akavov
only got split vs eubank
only got a majority over lee -- a guy ko'd by chavez jr
hurt by lame shefut isufi
was down on a card and barely up on the others vs total nobody coeceres
only managed a weak 115-114 over ryder
etc etc

look who they've fought, and what they've accomplished. as pros bill is absolutely nowhere close