Anthony Joshua vs. Oleksandr Usyk - 25 September 2021

[maverick23]

Yeah I don't have an issue with people fighting mandatories, it has to be done, but Hearn just makes himself look daft trying to claim Takam, Martin and Breazeale are any good. He was saying Martin would beat Wilder the other week ffs.

I don’t particularly rate Takam but he was a decent last minute replacement that counted as his mandatory. Both Martin and Breazeale were unbeaten when they fought AJ. I never particularly rated Breazeale but Martin’s not a bad fighter. He stopped Washington in his last fight who’d stopped Helenius (not an easy thing to do) in his fight previous. If Martin fought Wilder I think he’d be Wilder’s 3rd toughest opponent after Fury and Ortiz. I never particularly rated Stiverne.

Tom Schwarz and Wallin were unbeaten... and Washington is garbage mate he got stopped by Miller and Kownacki after he’d fought Wilder.

They were unbeaten but they were picked because of their records. I follow boxing closely yet had heard of neither before they were announced as Tyson’s opponents. Neither had fought let alone beat anyone of note before Tyson. Schwarz was as poor as expected whilst Wallin was better than expected.

I also wouldn’t quite call Washington garbage. He’s nothing special but as Kownacki found out it’s not easy beating Helenius.

[margaret thatcher]

Cmon, Usyk far too small for a huge hard hitting power house like Joshua. Usyk looked panicked at the power & size of a slow lumbering lump like Chisora. Josh will pullverise him.

Is AJ hard hitting? When was the last time he ironed someone out?

He'll fight like he did against Parker and the 2nd Ruiz fight, and whilst he clearly won he never looked like hurting them. Only difference is Usyk won't be sh!t scared like Parker or 20 stone like Ruiz.

is aj hard hitting ? no, he's got pillow hands mate

joshua has dropped or stopped all but 1 of his opponents. has consistently knocked out world rated contenders. even to this day no one, not klit, fury, or any of the 'hard hittin' up an comers like dubois or hrgovic have come close to doing what he did to pinhead johnson either. obviously he can punch hard

ppl bring this 'he doesnt knock them cold' thing a lot, but even the biggest hitters out there arent flattening guys every fight. wilder couldn't drop duhaupas in 11 rounds despite landing an absolute ton of punches, couldnt drop stiverne in their first fight despite landing everything, needed 9 rounds vs eric molina (who kept getting up ), etc. needed a 10 round accumulation the first time vs an exhausted ortiz. stopped plenty on their feet or in corner too. does that mean he cant punch very hard though?

ggg has gone the distance 5-6 times, has lots of cumulative stoppages with multiple knockdowns or standing finishes --- can he not hit hard either? inoue, kovalev, canelo, charlos, etc.....same thing. are there no hard punchers in boxing? if we say he josh doesnt hit hard then essentially no one in the world in any division hits hard.

[margaret thatcher]

i'd rate him as the 2nd biggest puncher in the division, and like i said even wilder has examples like duhaupas and stiverne where he couldnt drop the guy in long fights where he unloaded

he's unlikely to just ko usyk with the first power shot he lands, so he'll need the tools to get his shots in there enough in the first place, but i do think he's a major banger and that the power will make a difference. even if its just on the gloves or not landing clean, it can put usyk into a shell

he's not useless as a 'boxer' either, pretty much every fight he's been ahead even before hurting an opponent. he was an olympic champ and world championship 2nd place in the ams as well, he's got stuff even when he's not scoring kos

[Counter-puncher]

the power will make a difference. even if its just on the gloves or not landing clean, it can put usyk into a shell

This is exactly the problem for Usyk, I can’t say this enough:

He doesn’t look to slip punches a lot of the time

If he was a Byrd-style slick mover with good movement of his head and body, I’d think he was exactly the kind of small heavyweight to give AJ fits- Parker showed pretty good head and body movement and it seemed to stop AJ letting his hands go for fear of missing and gassing*- but with Usyk that nice solid guard is often there to be banged on, not to mention his body is often there to be hit too. There’s no way that doesn’t wear Usyk down and create openings sooner or later.

*i don’t think we should underestimate how the fear of gassing influences Joshua’s game plans and tactics, ever.

[Boxerbeetle]

the power will make a difference. even if its just on the gloves or not landing clean, it can put usyk into a shell

This is exactly the problem for Usyk, I can’t say this enough:

He doesn’t look to slip punches a lot of the time

If he was a Byrd-style slick mover with good movement of his head and body, I’d think he was exactly the kind of small heavyweight to give AJ fits- Parker showed pretty good head and body movement and it seemed to stop AJ letting his hands go for fear of missing and gassing*- but with Usyk that nice solid guard is often there to be banged on, not to mention his body is often there to be hit too. There’s no way that doesn’t wear Usyk down and create openings sooner or later.

*i don’t think we should underestimate how the fear of gassing influences Joshua’s game plans and tactics, ever.

Whilst this logic is undoubtedly sound, it’s exactly the logic I used in pIcking Gassiev over Usyk in the super six thingy final. Admittedly I did it as a bit of an underdog punt which I didn’t really believe in, and frankly Gassiev was fvcking lame in that fight, but taught me a lesson in not underestimating Usyk’s ability to negate all that. And definitely agree that I still can’t quite shake off the memory of Joshua struggling with a fairly rudimentary Parker.

But I’m still picking AJ against Usy, in a re-run of the brutal ko against Pov btw

[Ruthless-RKO]

Hearn: We'll Either Make Deal For Joshua-Usyk Or AJ Will Vacate; Won't Go To Purse Bid

“I feel like as long as the deal goes smoothly … and no one tries to be clever, then I think that fight is quite automatic,” Hearn told a group of reporters Saturday night following Devin Haney’s victory over Jorge Linares at Mandalay Bay’s Michelob Ultra Arena. “And the way that the conversations have been going with Alex Krassyuk, who I’ve worked with for the last three [Usyk] fights anyway, [have] been sensible. So, as long as everyone’s sensible, that’s the fight. And I think it’s a very good fight. It’s not the Fury fight, which is the one we wanted, but it’s still a very good fight.”

“I do think where we are with negotiations,” Hearn said, “we would probably say to the WBO, if there’s no deal by Monday or Tuesday, could we have another week, please? Like if both teams say that, then they’ll give you more time, you know?”

A purse bid would mean 80-20 in AJ’s favour as per WBO.

“We’ll either make a deal or we’ll vacate,” Hearn said. “I mean, we won’t be going to purse bids or anything like that, and mucking around. By the way, I don’t blame the WBO. They were actually quite generous to us with our time. I mean, let’s be honest – it dragged on a lot, didn’t it? So, I have to take my hat off to [WBO president] Paco Valcarcel, because he did put himself, his neck on the line, to allow that fight, when Usyk had a strong case for it not to be allowed.

“But when the time come, [Valcarcel] had to do what he had to do. So, I’m not annoyed with the WBO. I’m just annoyed that it seems that basically AJ is told who he’s gotta fight every single time. But that's the problem of having three or four belts. That’s just how it is.”

[mickey1975]

So its about money? AJ not happy with 80%? No rematch clause? You know, the stuff every other mandatory is entitled to. One thing AJ does strike me as is greedy.

[Counter-puncher]

the power will make a difference. even if its just on the gloves or not landing clean, it can put usyk into a shell

This is exactly the problem for Usyk, I can’t say this enough:

He doesn’t look to slip punches a lot of the time

If he was a Byrd-style slick mover with good movement of his head and body, I’d think he was exactly the kind of small heavyweight to give AJ fits- Parker showed pretty good head and body movement and it seemed to stop AJ letting his hands go for fear of missing and gassing*- but with Usyk that nice solid guard is often there to be banged on, not to mention his body is often there to be hit too. There’s no way that doesn’t wear Usyk down and create openings sooner or later.

*i don’t think we should underestimate how the fear of gassing influences Joshua’s game plans and tactics, ever.

Whilst this logic is undoubtedly sound, it’s exactly the logic I used in pIcking Gassiev over Usyk in the super six thingy final. g:

ha, I picked Usyk strongly *because southpaw/ footwork but you're right it wasn't really a factor. Just that there's about 50lbs more of AJ to do the banging (but there's also 50lbs more of him doing the chasing-round-the-ring)

[Ruthless-RKO]

So its about money? AJ not happy with 80%? No rematch clause? You know, the stuff every other mandatory is entitled to. One thing AJ does strike me as is greedy.

He’s already set for life, as are his kids and then their kids. How much money do you need?

Let’s hope they can sort a deal out. 80-20 is generous for AJ, I’m guessing Usyk wouldn’t be happy with that.

[maverick23]

So its about money? AJ not happy with 80%? No rematch clause? You know, the stuff every other mandatory is entitled to. One thing AJ does strike me as is greedy.

It may be money but it will also be that they don’t want to lose control of things like timing of the fight, location, networks, drug testing etc.

If he was greedy then why not go for a purse bid if they think that will generate him more money.

AJ’s had things he wanted all of the way through his career and he won’t want that to change now so that may be more important to him over an extra few million from a potentially crazy purse bid.

[mickey1975]

Not many boxers state their ambition is to be a billionaire.

[maverick23]

Not many boxers state their ambition is to be a billionaire.

It’s good to have goals and seeing what Mayweather did then it shows it’s achievable but I don’t think that necessarily makes him greedy.

He’ll be getting 8 figures a year in sponsorship from JLR, Under Armour, Beats, JD, Lynx, Hugo Boss and others and if he’s able to continue doing that plus stays near the top of heavyweight scene for the next 7-8 years (obviously a couple of losses to Tyson could change that) than he won’t be far away from a billion in earnings.

He was still able/willing to fight in December for what I’d assume was far less than he’d been paid in his 5 or 6 fights before then. Tyson wasn’t able to get it sorted but I’m not sure that makes Tyson greedy either.

[ironbeard]

Not many boxers state their ambition is to be a billionaire.

It is professional boxing/prize fighting. Money + maintaining health = the ultimate score.

They call FMJ “Money” for a reason.

[THEBUTCH]

On the one hand I totally agree that AJ could appear greedy and he's already earned vast sums of money beyond his wildest dreams, so would it hurt to him to be more generous in negotiations !?

On the other hand it's AJ who puts bums on seats and can fill stadiums in the UK like no other. He's the big draw, so must feel he should take the appropriate split.

[maverick23]

On the one hand I totally agree that AJ could appear greedy and he's already earned vast sums of money beyond his wildest dreams, so would it hurt to him to be more generous in negotiations !?

On the other hand it's AJ who puts bums on seats and can fill stadiums in the UK like no other. He's the big draw, so must feel he should take the appropriate split.

It’s not up to AJ or his team to make sure Usyk gets as much as possible - it’s Usyk’s team’s responsibility. It’s not like Usyk’s potless - he’s probably earned close to £15m himself. People can be generous but boxing at this level’s a business so it’s when his management/promoter earn their commissions by maximising the returns for the boxers they work for.

He made a reportedly decent sized donation to British amateur boxing late last year after it was heavily bypassed by government grants.

Tyson talks a good game re:charity (and in fairness brought a lot of awareness around mental health) but what happened to the £7m he was giving LA homeless people to buy shelters after his first fight with Wilder?

[THEBUTCH]

I'm not really coming from the idea of him lining competitors pockets, more from the point of view of making sure these fights are made...and keeping the belts. It's idealistic.

Frank Maloney claimed Lennox Lewis said he would take 10% of the purse just to get Riddick Bowe in the ring. Obviously Maloney wouldn't allow that, but it does show the sort compromise world beaters might go to if they want to rule the roost.

If AJ ever wants to mentioned in the same league as Lewis, he should bear Lennox's attitude in mind. Lewis ain't short of a bob or two either.

[maverick23]

I'm not really coming from the idea of him lining competitors pockets, more from the point of view of making sure these fights are made...and keeping the belts. It's idealistic.

Frank Maloney claimed Lennox Lewis said he would take 10% of the purse just to get Riddick Bowe in the ring. Obviously Maloney wouldn't allow that, but it does show the sort compromise world beaters might go to if they want to rule the roost.

If AJ ever wants to mentioned in the same league as Lewis, he should bear Lennox's attitude in mind. Lewis ain't short of a bob or two either.

Yeah - I see what you mean but it’s not like AJ’s been ducking people. He’s 25 fights in, won a world title vacated by Fury, unified twice, fought mostly mandatories and lost/won against Ruiz. It’s not like he’s been fighting easy cheap opponents at the expense of top fights. They’ve seemingly been willing to match him with Fury and DAZN tried to make to the Wilder fight a couple of years back.

The only way AJ is spoken about the same way as Lewis is if he beats Fury. AJ’s team have seemingly shown more willingness to make that than Fury’s team.

Obviously if the Usyk fight doesn’t happen and he fights Helenius or someone then I’ll be pissed but I think the Usyk happens next and it’s a good fight too.

[mickey1975]

He could do with getting chained again by a fringe guy and his comparison with Lewis will be almost complete!

[THEBUTCH]

Yeah, like Lewis didn't pretty much clean up the heavyweight division, reversing his only two losses....knocking one of them into next week and reducing the other to bursting into tears !

When's Fury going to show some mental strength and take on all comers ? Ok, that's a rhetorical question...he won't ! His record is pathetic when measured against Lewis'.

[mickey1975]

Yeah, like Lewis didn't pretty much clean up the heavyweight division, reversing his only two losses....knocking one of them into next week and reducing the other to bursting into tears !

When's Fury going to show some mental strength and take on all comers ? Ok, that's a rhetorical question...he won't ! His record is pathetic when measured against Lewis'.

How? And I don't think Lewis reduced McCall to tears. His punches had literally no effect despite McCall walking forward, hands down clearly detoxing.

[unknownman79]

Yeah, like Lewis didn't pretty much clean up the heavyweight division, reversing his only two losses....knocking one of them into next week and reducing the other to bursting into tears !

When's Fury going to show some mental strength and take on all comers ? Ok, that's a rhetorical question...he won't ! His record is pathetic when measured against Lewis'.

How? And I don't think Lewis reduced McCall to tears. His punches had literally no effect despite McCall walking forward, hands down clearly detoxing.

Name me one fighter that has hurt Mccall?

[Cyclops]

Not many boxers state their ambition is to be a billionaire.

It’s good to have goals and seeing what Mayweather did then it shows it’s achievable but I don’t think that necessarily makes him greedy.

I dunno. Nobody needs a billion quid. Why? You'll never spend it. That sounds quite greedy to me. Mayweather's clearly a greedy sod so the comparison backs it up, if anything.

I can't think of anyone who became a billionaire by being a really nice guy.

[maverick23]

Not many boxers state their ambition is to be a billionaire.

It’s good to have goals and seeing what Mayweather did then it shows it’s achievable but I don’t think that necessarily makes him greedy.

I dunno. Nobody needs a billion quid. Why? You'll never spend it. That sounds quite greedy to me. Mayweather's clearly a greedy sod so the comparison backs it up, if anything.

I can't think of anyone who became a billionaire by being a really nice guy.

It’s good to have goals though. He clearly takes his boxing and the business side of it seriously and will have seen the money made by Mayweather and McGregror and wants to be like that himself.

You’re right nobody needs a billion but it depends what you do with it. Warren Buffett must have given c.$40bn to charities in the last 15 years and pledged to give 99% of his wealth away before he dies.

I’m certainly not putting AJ in the same bracket when it comes to generosity but it was decent of him to make those amateur boxing grants available.

[Cyclops]

It’s good to have goals and seeing what Mayweather did then it shows it’s achievable but I don’t think that necessarily makes him greedy.

I dunno. Nobody needs a billion quid. Why? You'll never spend it. That sounds quite greedy to me. Mayweather's clearly a greedy sod so the comparison backs it up, if anything.

I can't think of anyone who became a billionaire by being a really nice guy.

It’s good to have goals though. He clearly takes his boxing and the business side of it seriously and will have seen the money made by Mayweather and McGregror and wants to be like that himself.

You’re right nobody needs a billion but it depends what you do with it. Warren Buffett must have given c.$40bn to charities in the last 15 years and pledged to give 99% of his wealth away before he dies.

I’m certainly not putting AJ in the same bracket when it comes to generosity but it was decent of him to make those amateur boxing grants available.

Well, none of it really matters. At this point, I almost feel sorry for AJ. He was about to hit the motherload and now Fury could potentially get smoked by a retarded windmill and he's got to fight some undefeated double Olympic gold medallist who's got form for taking champions in their back yards, for quite a bit less wedge. If he really wants to be a billionaire, there's quite a few variables now to stop that from becoming a reality than there was a couple of weeks ago.

Swerving Usyk would also be a terrible look and hurt his brand. He must be fuming.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Not many boxers state their ambition is to be a billionaire.

It’s good to have goals and seeing what Mayweather did then it shows it’s achievable but I don’t think that necessarily makes him greedy.

I dunno. Nobody needs a billion quid. Why? You'll never spend it. That sounds quite greedy to me. Mayweather's clearly a greedy sod so the comparison backs it up, if anything.

I can't think of anyone who became a billionaire by being a really nice guy.

He put a message on IG, something along the lines of,

"I want to have so much money, that God uses my wealth to bless others."

Not those exact words, but something like that, or that's what is sounded like to me.