Modern Day "All-Time Heavyweight" Tournament

sockdolager · Post by **sockdolager** » 16 Jul 2006, 00:06

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
IrishRufusMurphy wrote:I am surprised u said that Brockton, considering this is a prime vs prime tournament...

scores are now:

7-0 Foreman
6-1 Louis
4-3 Liston
6-1 Marciano
6-1 Jefferies

7-0 Johnson
6-1 Walcott
5-2 Ali
7-0 Holmes
7-0 Tunney

o in case u didnt realize it irishmurphy i was joking.

a peak marciano slaughters ingo

I thought you were joking but you had no indication of it so I was a bit confused.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 16 Jul 2006, 00:22

lmao...had me wonderin there for a while Brockton...as far as jokes goes, that wasn't at all funny, that was near blasphemous, would almost be as bad if Don King promoted a fight between Ruiz and 55 year old Larry Holmes

neways....scores are now:

4-0 Louis
4-0 Marciano
3-1 Tyson

4-0 Ali
4-0 Holmes
3-1 Tunney

Looks good thus far in this tournament 8) might not need to have the computer determine a fight at all this round lol

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 16 Jul 2006, 16:13

Foreman KO 3 Louis
Jeffries WUD 15 Marciano
Tyson KO 3 Frazier
Ali WUD 15 Johnson
Holmes KO 8 Walcott
Tunney WUD 15 Spinks

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 16 Jul 2006, 16:27

4-1 Louis
4-1 Marciano
4-1 Tyson

5-0 Ali
5-0 Holmes
4-1 Tunney

JC · Post by JC » 16 Jul 2006, 17:01

Louis vs Foreman - Louis KO 8
Marciano vs Jefferies - Marciano UD
Tyson Frazier - Frazier KO 10

Ali vs Johnson - Johnson UD
Holmes vs Walcott - Holmes TKO 10
Tunney vs Spinx - Tunney UD

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 16 Jul 2006, 17:43

Holmes vs Walcott - Holmes TKO 10

holmes stopping walcott?? i dont see that. in walcotts prime he survived against much greater punchers than holmes and only ATG punchers louis and rocky were able to knock him out.

far less fighters than prime walcott lasted the distance with holmes

holmes-walcott would be a very close fight

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 16 Jul 2006, 18:28

5-1 Louis
5-1 Marciano
4-2 Tyson

5-1 Ali
6-0 Holmes
5-1 Tunney

I agree I don't think Holmes would have an easy cake walk over Walcott, considering 'Jersey Joe' was a man who improvised new ways to get out of troubling situations, he created new moves along the way, and he was far more better than most of the 80's opponents Holmes faced by a long shot.

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The only match-up so far that may need to have the computer help determine who should move on would be Tyson vs Frazier. Myself I am surprised that some of the votes are so one-sided, but nonetheless, I believe them to be the most accurate choices.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 16 Jul 2006, 18:29

Joe Louis KO4 George Foreman
Jim Jefferies KO 10 Rocky Marciano
Joe Frazier TKO8 Tyson

Muhammad Ali SD15 Jack Johnson
Larry Holmes TKO12 Joe Walcott
Gene Tunney KO3 Micheal Spinks

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 16 Jul 2006, 18:37

6-1 Louis
5-2 Marciano
4-3 Tyson

6-1 Ali
7-0 Holmes
6-1 Tunney

Looks like 'Tyson/Frazier' will most definately be run through the computer

be interesting.

************************************************************

Am going to move on the winners right now into the third round of this tournament, will later on tell you how Tyson/Frazier matched up in a two out of three slug fest

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 16 Jul 2006, 18:57

THIRD ROUND OF THE "ALL-TIME HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP"

ALI vs TUNNEY

LOUIS vs TYSON*

The computer fight was pretty much in favor of Tyson for the first fight, the second went to Frazier and the third went to Tyson again. Both seemed to show that Frazier was always dangerous to Mike, as his pressure style and toughness as well as his left hook, arguably the best in the division's history, could withstand a prime Tyson's fast hand and head movement, dispite his tremendous power in both hands, pretty much a 50/50 coin toss up. So votes included, this makes Tyson the winner.

Marciano and Holmes will sit out on this one, they will face off against the winner(s) of this round.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 16 Jul 2006, 20:03

Ali WUD 15 Tunney
Tyson KO 4 Louis

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 16 Jul 2006, 20:08

Seamus wrote:Foreman KO 3 Louis
Jeffries WUD 15 Marciano
Tyson KO 3 Frazier
Ali WUD 15 Johnson
Holmes KO 8 Walcott
Tunney WUD 15 Spinks

i cant see why anyone thinks foreman would beat a peak joe louis.

* holmes would not knockout a peak walcott. it would be a very close fight. walcott was better than norton and spoon who took holmes to close split decisions.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 16 Jul 2006, 20:11

Jim Jefferies KO 10 Rocky Marciano

hmmm interesting pick.........care to offer ur reason??????

* even if u think jeff would win, i cant see how in hell he would knock rocky out. points would be more likely.

if jeffries couldnt finish a poor mans marciano in sharkey, then he wont finish marciano. sharkey was strong, but not too durable.

i think rocky would beat jeff. rocky was the harder puncher and much better inside fighter. i think rockys incredibly punch rate and inside fighting skills will give him the egde over jeffries in a close decision

a poor mans marciano, tom sharkey, gavfe jeffries huge fitz in both fights and some people reported sharkey deserved the decision in there 2nd fight.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 16 Jul 2006, 20:41

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
Jim Jefferies KO 10 Rocky Marciano
hmmm interesting pick.........care to offer ur reason??????

Hmmm… no

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:a poor mans marciano, tom sharkey, gavfe jeffries huge fitz in both fights and some people reported sharkey deserved the decision in there 2nd fight.

So what? Quite a few fighters gave the diminutive Rocky trouble, and none of them could carry the Sailors jock strap.

sockdolager · Post by **sockdolager** » 16 Jul 2006, 20:43

THIRD ROUND OF THE "ALL-TIME HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP"

ALI vs TUNNEY~~~~~~Ali UD Tunney

LOUIS vs TYSON~~~~~Louis TKO 9 Tyson

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 16 Jul 2006, 20:52

ALI SD15 TUNNEY
LOUIS KO1 TYSON

theone · Post by **theone** » 16 Jul 2006, 21:02

i cant see why anyone thinks foreman would beat a peak joe louis.

I could...quite clearly in fact. To have a chance at beating a prime George a fighter had to be fast, utilizing alot of lateral movement, and possess a solid chin.
Louis's was not exactly a fleet footed fellow and his chin, while not as china as alot of people claim, was far from granite. It isnt a stretch to say that a couple of shots from George would have him in on queer street.

Louis had short, compact powerful punches, but for him to land them effectively he had to get close. Foremans powerful jab, strenght and sledgehammer right hand would make this a very dangerous task for the brown bomber.

Louis would come straight in as he always did, something probably no heavyweight in history would have gotten away with against Foreman.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 16 Jul 2006, 21:02

So what? Quite a few fighters gave the diminutive Rocky trouble, and none of them could carry the Sailors jock strap.

who gave rocky trouble in his prime besides charles and walcott in the first fights?? sailor couldnt carry charles or walcotts jockstrap

didnt 165lb bob fitzimmons knock out sharkey? and gus ruhlin too??

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 16 Jul 2006, 21:07

theone wrote:
i cant see why anyone thinks foreman would beat a peak joe louis.
I could...quite clearly in fact. The ingredients to defeating prime George was to be fast, utilizing alot of lateral movement, and possessing a solid chin.
Louis's was not exactly a fleet footed fellow and his chin, while not as china as alot of people claim, was far from granite. It isnt a stretch to say that a couple of shots from George would have him in on queer street.

Louis had short, compact powerful punches, but for him to land them effectively he had to get close. Foremans powerful jab, strenght and sledgehammer right hand would make this a very dangerous task for the brown bomber.

Louis would come straight in as he always did, something probably no heavyweight in history would have gotten away with against Foreman.

I agree. I think that Foreman-Louis would have all the ingredients for an upset, although I would favor Louis. One way to look at it is if they fought 10 times, I'm sure George would have caught Joe enough to win a few of them.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 16 Jul 2006, 23:22

My opinion on Foreman-Louis is this: If Louis could somehow manage to get passed the first few rounds, he MIGHT have a chance, Foreman was a very wild puncher and was off balance alot of the times, outside of that jab and his crushing power, Foreman had his flaws. While Louis on the other hand, though not having the best chin, from the waist up was possibly the most perfect puncher in the history of the ring. His timing was excellent, hand speed tremendous, and he had one helluva punch in either hand.

Louis hated to be crowded, hated to be pressured, such men as Tony Galento when they fought Louis gave him hell, as did Buddy Baer; but Louis knew how to get up off the floor to win---but in all fairness to Foreman, Louis never fought a man, with the exception of Marciano, who hit anywhere near as hard as George did.

Louis was a man who could see mistakes in his opponents, and like I said before, Foreman was wild and off balanced sometimes, and MAYBE that's all it would take is one single slip up from Foreman, for Louis to land those rapid fire combinations and put Foreman down and out.

But, it is a HUGE what if.

************************************************************

So far it is....

2-1 Louis
3-0 Ali

This really I believe will be the hardest fight to determine (Foreman/Louis). You have arguably the greatest fighting machine from the waist up versus possibly the hardest hitting man in the history of the ring.

I will quote novelist Victor Hugo, from a line in his infamous novel The Man Who Laughs:

"A little man against a big one, and the chances are in the favour of the little one. The cat has it's best of it with a dog. Goliaths are always vanquished by David's..."

This comes to question, really question, that can skill and will truly overcome size, strength? History has repeated it'se numerous times in the squared circle, and nine times out of ten, the more skillful fighter ends up the winner, even if by a narrow margin.

I'd pick Louis...only because Louis had very little flaws, and Foreman had many, but his power usually made up the difference.

sockdolager · Post by **sockdolager** » 17 Jul 2006, 02:06

The Great John L wrote:ALI SD15 TUNNEY
LOUIS KO1 TYSON

Wow, Id atleast give Tysons quickness, upperbody movement and good chin a round or two before he gets KOd. Are you suggesting that Tysons early agressivness gets him countered and stopped that quick? I think Tyson would more than likely take the first 1/3 of the fight before tiring and becoming target practice for the worlds best technitionist.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 17 Jul 2006, 07:24

sockdollanger wrote:
The Great John L wrote:ALI SD15 TUNNEY
LOUIS KO1 TYSON
Wow, Id atleast give Tysons quickness, upperbody movement and good chin a round or two before he gets KOd. Are you suggesting that Tysons early agressivness gets him countered and stopped that quick? I think Tyson would more than likely take the first 1/3 of the fight before tiring and becoming target practice for the worlds best technitionist.

The "prime" Tyson that fought Bruno would have gone down pretty quick. He had little head movement, was often times off balance and had problems getting past Bruno's mediocre jab. It's possible that Tyson could have lasted longer against Louis, and there's also a small chance that Tyson could have caught Louis and won, but that's a much less likely scenario.

Whether he gets stopped in 1 or 4, he would have gotten stopped.

sockdolager · Post by **sockdolager** » 17 Jul 2006, 07:57

The Great John L wrote:
sockdollanger wrote:
The Great John L wrote:ALI SD15 TUNNEY
LOUIS KO1 TYSON
Wow, Id atleast give Tysons quickness, upperbody movement and good chin a round or two before he gets KOd. Are you suggesting that Tysons early agressivness gets him countered and stopped that quick? I think Tyson would more than likely take the first 1/3 of the fight before tiring and becoming target practice for the worlds best technition.
The "prime" Tyson that fought Bruno would have gone down pretty quick. He had little head movement, was often times off balance and had problems getting past Bruno's mediocre jab. It's possible that Tyson could have lasted longer against Louis, and there's also a small chance that Tyson could have caught Louis and won, but that's a much less likely scenario.

Whether he gets stopped in 1 or 4, he would have gotten stopped.

agreed.

JC · Post by JC » 17 Jul 2006, 12:00

The Great John L wrote:
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
Jim Jefferies KO 10 Rocky Marciano
hmmm interesting pick.........care to offer ur reason??????

Hmmm… no

Depending on what era the ref was from I could see a cuts stoppage for either man in this fight.

JC · Post by JC » 17 Jul 2006, 12:06

Ali WUD15 Tunney

Louis WKO6 Tyson

Tyson had a good chin but once hurt didn't recover too well, at which point his opponent should just try to keep laning shopts as Holyfield did in there first fight. With his power and accuracy of punching Louis would have been able to do this very clinically