Andrade Hasnt Fought Anyone

[Axe]

So it turns out that not only was Librado Andrade the reason that the recent unification fight at 168 took SOOO long to sign, but he also happens to be the reason that Ring champion Joe Calzaghe will have a (very legitimate) excuse to avoid the winner...

So the question that begs asking is: WHO has this kid beaten to get a crack at a unified belt in the first place?

Looking at his record, the only fighter who was even rated in the top 15 would have to be Otis Grant, a 40 year old career middleweight who hasnt fought since...needless to say, that does NOT make Andrade a legitimate challenger.

What boxing NEEDS is some way of controlling the sanctioning bodies, and stop them from enforcing these ridiculous mandatories, ESPECIALLY in the wake of unification fights, or else we'll be stuck with splintered titles, fraudulent champions, and crappy fights forever.

[Autobarn]

Is Calzaghe going to fight Andrade?

In an ideal world, Andrade and Mundine should be paired up.

Really though, Bute is a much more worthy contender. The way he beat Salem, Thysse and Mock should make him the leading contender.

[TerribleTerry]

I agree – Bute is the real dangerman in the division and his style/build is certainly reminiscent of Calzaghe’s.

That would be an excellent match up but Bute needs to raise his profile in both the States and Britain in order to make the fight a realistic possibility.

[nickd]

Bute looks good but is a few fights away from being ready for a title shot.

[Autobarn]

I agree – Bute is the real dangerman in the division and his style/build is certainly reminiscent of Calzaghe’s.

That would be an excellent match up but Bute needs to raise his profile in both the States and Britain in order to make the fight a realistic possibility.

I think Andrade being with Golden Boy has a lot to do with his ranking. If he had beaten Salem, Thysse & Mock everyone would be crying about him not getting a shot

Andrade does have a stance like Calzaghe's. But obviously he sits down on his shots more and throws fewer punches.


Good point raised by Axe. All that faffing about for a guy who has one good win. Could be Lacy syndrome again. Yank starts to look good, and he apparently owns the world

[Max Molyneux]

If he's won a mandatory fight then you just take that away from him. Maybe he's not that good but without mandatories then there would be fiarness of good fighters getting a shot.

[Axe]

Is Calzaghe going to fight Andrade?

In an ideal world, Andrade and Mundine should be paired up.

Really though, Bute is a much more worthy contender. The way he beat Salem, Thysse and Mock should make him the leading contender.

I havent heard anything about Calzaghe fighting Andrade, and for the sake of boxing, I hope that Calzaghe can stay at 168 long enough to fight the winner of the upcoming unification.

What I don't want to see is another alphabet soup mandatory ruin an unisputed title...before it is ever completely unified, no less.

Let's hope that the winner of the match in Denmark will have enough step aside money to pay off the undeserving Andrade so the fight with JC can be made in time.

[Axe]

Good point raised by Axe. All that faffing about for a guy who has one good win. Could be Lacy syndrome again. Yank starts to look good, and he apparently owns the world

Heh, thanks vicious.

In fairness to the yanks, there is one fighter out there who in all probability will own the world. That would be Chad Dawson, of course...but he has a lot more than just one good win.

[Axe]

If he's won a mandatory fight then you just take that away from him. Maybe he's not that good but without mandatories then there would be fiarness of good fighters getting a shot.

Max, could you repeat yourself, youre not making sense mate.

[stujones]

I don't see what the fuss is all about. He beat Grant in an WBC FINAL eliminator. Grant before that won a WBC eliminator.... So what was the problem with him protesting about the Kessler fight.

It's like Johnson protesting about Woods' rematch with DeLisle and Urkal protesting about Collazo vs Hatton.

I don't see the problem, he won his eliminator - he deserves to be mandatory. Plenty of fighters don't beat anyone and yet get into the #1 position. Like Gavin Rees - he was scheduled to fight for the WBO Super Feather title and he hadn't fought for like a year.

He obviously feels that Kessler is going to be a harder ask, so why not put in a complaint - just as Urkal did (and Urkal didn't even fight an eliminator).

Anyway the unification is on, so whats the problem. Besides, he looks pretty impressive and I would have favoured him over Beyer.

[Axe]

I don't see what the fuss is all about. He beat Grant in an WBC FINAL eliminator. Grant before that won a WBC eliminator.... So what was the problem with him protesting about the Kessler fight.

It's like Johnson protesting about Woods' rematch with DeLisle and Urkal protesting about Collazo vs Hatton.

I don't see the problem, he won his eliminator - he deserves to be mandatory. Plenty of fighters don't beat anyone and yet get into the #1 position. Like Gavin Rees - he was scheduled to fight for the WBO Super Feather title and he hadn't fought for like a year.

He obviously feels that Kessler is going to be a harder ask, so why not put in a complaint - just as Urkal did (and Urkal didn't even fight an eliminator).

Anyway the unification is on, so whats the problem. Besides, he looks pretty impressive and I would have favoured him over Beyer.

Johnson protesting the Del Isle fight was simply a worthy challenger protesting an unworthy voluntary defence.

Andrade protesting Kessler-Beyer was an unworthy challenger protesting a unification clash.

But stu, I think you missed my real point, which was that on one hand we have the Beyer-Kessler winner being bogged down fighting his mandatory, meanwhile on the other we have Calzaghe struggling to make 168 lbs.

I don't think I have to ask any real boxing fan as to which fight they would prefer.


PS And as to who he has beat, you summed it up nicely....Otis Grant...thats it. A 40 year old natural middleweight, who hasnt fought since.

[stujones]

No, I see your point - but I can see Andrande's point also.... and I know who I'd rather fight between Beyer and Kessler.

To be fair to the WBC, Andrande and everyone. The Grant vs Andrande final eliminator was mandated and fought before Kessler and Beyer started negations. Like with Collazo and Urkal, Beyer was given a date where he had to fight Andrande - but now is fighting Kessler instead. He is lucky that he is not being stripped - as Collazo was also.

Grant beat the guys the WBC accepted as semi eliminators.... but lost to Andrande. So even if he is cack - he is not a Freeman Barr style mandatory. He beat the man the WBC nominated in an eliminator. Beyer's mandatory is due = Andrande should fight for the WBC title. Whether he deserve the chance or warranted the chance to fight Grant is open to debate... What I don't think is open to debate is if a fighter wins an eliminator and the mandatory is due - then of course the fighter should get the shot (no matter how bad the eliminator was).

Whats more concerning is that I'm not sure Joe Calzaghe and Sports Network are even aware of the unification fight happening - so I wouldn't blame Andrande, the WBC or anyone like that if the Calzaghe vs WBA/WBC champion doesn't take place. No press release or anything... a bit dissapointing.

[Axe]

No, I see your point - but I can see Andrande's point also.... and I know who I'd rather fight between Beyer and Kessler.

To be fair to the WBC, Andrande and everyone. The Grant vs Andrande final eliminator was mandated and fought before Kessler and Beyer started negations. Like with Collazo and Urkal, Beyer was given a date where he had to fight Andrande - but now is fighting Kessler instead. He is lucky that he is not being stripped - as Collazo was also.

Grant beat the guys the WBC accepted as semi eliminators.... but lost to Andrande. So even if he is cack - he is not a Freeman Barr style mandatory. He beat the man the WBC nominated in an eliminator. Beyer's mandatory is due = Andrande should fight for the WBC title. Whether he deserve the chance or warranted the chance to fight Grant is open to debate... What I don't think is open to debate is if a fighter wins an eliminator and the mandatory is due - then o f course the fighter should get the shot (no matter how bad the eliminator was).

Whats more concerning is that I'm not sure Joe Calzaghe and Sports Network are even aware of the unification fight happening - so I wouldn't blame Andrande, the WBC or anyone like that if the Calzaghe vs WBA/WBC champion doesn't take place. No press release or anything... a bit dissapointing.

Are you talking about 24-6 Donnell Wiggins, or 13-2 Charles Adamu? Neither of those guys should warrant a title fight or even be billed as "quasi"-eliminators. I agree, there have been worse mandatories in the past, but this isnt the right time for a mandatory, if you get my drift.

[Axe]

As I said on another forum, its situations like these that underline the need for a unified boxing commision. They would consider the fact that Andrade hasnt exactly been waiting a long time and that he only beat one semi-decent fighter, and they would simply issue a ruling that he would have to wait another fight, providing, of course, that both JC and the Beyer/Kessler winner could come to an agreement.

[Axe]

Stu, I just had another glance at Andrade's resume, and his second biggest win was a decision over 21-0 Willie Stewart. Like the rest of Andrade's opponents (except Grant), Stewart was not in the division's top 15, despite being unbeaten. In his next fight, Stewart lost to 15-5 John Roman William.

I remember watching a middleweight version of Chad Dawson absolutely dominate William (who fights at 175 and higher) with straight punches from the outside and carving his face up for a 4th round TKO. That was when William was a hopeful 9-1 prospect (Dawson was only 8-0 then), not a 15-5 journeyman.

Now Chad is a great fighter, but he was somewhat scrawny and lacked power back when he was 20 years old, so the fact that a middleweight version of Dawson absolutely dominated William--who went on to beat Stewart--is a telling sign of Andrade's weak resume.

[stujones]

Stu, I just had another glance at Andrade's resume, and his second biggest win was a decision over 21-0 Willie Stewart. Like the rest of Andrade's opponents (except Grant), Stewart was not in the division's top 15, despite being unbeaten. In his next fight, Stewart lost to 15-5 John Roman William.

I remember watching a middleweight version of Chad Dawson absolutely dominate William (who fights at 175 and higher) with straight punches from the outside and carving his face up for a 4th round TKO. That was when William was a hopeful 9-1 prospect (Dawson was only 8-0 then), not a 15-5 journeyman.

Now Chad is a great fighter, but he was somewhat scrawny and lacked power back when he was 20 years old, so the fact that a middleweight version of Dawson absolutely dominated William--who went on to beat Stewart--is a telling sign of Andrade's weak resume.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Andrade warranted his eliminator. Although I think Grant did just about he looked decent in his return and Woolnough, Adamu and Wiggins are decent if not world beaters. He was also a very good ex world champion - so that does mean alot.

However, for all their wisdom the WBC felt Andrade deserved a final eliminator - and he won it. Therefore, the WBC should fulfil their promise and give him the opportunity. Thats what an eliminator would be.

I'm not saying that cause I think Andrande is a decent fighter, which I think he is. I'm just saying he won the right before the Kessler vs Beyer fight was negotiated.

Lennox got stripped cause he wouldn't face Byrd, Hatton would get stripped if he doesn't face Urkal. Same here.

[shoutout]

Bute looks good but is a few fights away from being ready for a title shot.

i agree!! but then andrade looks to be a few MORE fights away from a title shot than bute!!

[shoutout]

Stu, I just had another glance at Andrade's resume, and his second biggest win was a decision over 21-0 Willie Stewart. Like the rest of Andrade's opponents (except Grant), Stewart was not in the division's top 15, despite being unbeaten. In his next fight, Stewart lost to 15-5 John Roman William.

I remember watching a middleweight version of Chad Dawson absolutely dominate William (who fights at 175 and higher) with straight punches from the outside and carving his face up for a 4th round TKO. That was when William was a hopeful 9-1 prospect (Dawson was only 8-0 then), not a 15-5 journeyman.

Now Chad is a great fighter, but he was somewhat scrawny and lacked power back when he was 20 years old, so the fact that a middleweight version of Dawson absolutely dominated William--who went on to beat Stewart--is a telling sign of Andrade's weak resume.

agreed!! dawson is already better than andrade, but his handlers have enuf sense not to rush him into a world title match yet...

i wouldnt be surprised, as shrewd a promoter as oscar is, that he realizes andrade isnt that good, but wants to get him a world title shot before he gets exposed by someone who IS GOOD!!

remember, oscar was mentored in promotion by slickster arum, who is in the process of doing the same thing with julio chavez jr!!

[Axe]

Stu, I just had another glance at Andrade's resume, and his second biggest win was a decision over 21-0 Willie Stewart. Like the rest of Andrade's opponents (except Grant), Stewart was not in the division's top 15, despite being unbeaten. In his next fight, Stewart lost to 15-5 John Roman William.

I remember watching a middleweight version of Chad Dawson absolutely dominate William (who fights at 175 and higher) with straight punches from the outside and carving his face up for a 4th round TKO. That was when William was a hopeful 9-1 prospect (Dawson was only 8-0 then), not a 15-5 journeyman.

Now Chad is a great fighter, but he was somewhat scrawny and lacked power back when he was 20 years old, so the fact that a middleweight version of Dawson absolutely dominated William--who went on to beat Stewart--is a telling sign of Andrade's weak resume.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Andrade warranted his eliminator. Although I think Grant did just about he looked decent in his return and Woolnough, Adamu and Wiggins are decent if not world beaters. He was also a very good ex world champion - so that does mean alot.

However, for all their wisdom the WBC felt Andrade deserved a final eliminator - and he won it. Therefore, the WBC should fulfil their promise and give him the opportunity. Thats what an eliminator would be.

I'm not saying that cause I think Andrande is a decent fighter, which I think he is. I'm just saying he won the right before the Kessler vs Beyer fight was negotiated.

Lennox got stripped cause he wouldn't face Byrd, Hatton would get stripped if he doesn't face Urkal. Same here.

Stu, I agree with most of the things you say...but do you remember what happened to Paul Briggs? The WBC made him fight THREE eliminators, and his resume was quite a bit better than Andrade's at the time.

[Axe]

Stu, I just had another glance at Andrade's resume, and his second biggest win was a decision over 21-0 Willie Stewart. Like the rest of Andrade's opponents (except Grant), Stewart was not in the division's top 15, despite being unbeaten. In his next fight, Stewart lost to 15-5 John Roman William.

I remember watching a middleweight version of Chad Dawson absolutely dominate William (who fights at 175 and higher) with straight punches from the outside and carving his face up for a 4th round TKO. That was when William was a hopeful 9-1 prospect (Dawson was only 8-0 then), not a 15-5 journeyman.

Now Chad is a great fighter, but he was somewhat scrawny and lacked power back when he was 20 years old, so the fact that a middleweight version of Dawson absolutely dominated William--who went on to beat Stewart--is a telling sign of Andrade's weak resume.

agreed!! dawson is already better than andrade, but his handlers have enuf sense not to rush him into a world title match yet...

i wouldnt be surprised, as shrewd a promoter as oscar is, that he realizes andrade isnt that good, but wants to get him a world title shot before he gets exposed by someone who IS GOOD!!

remember, oscar was mentored in promotion by slickster arum, who is in the process of doing the same thing with julio chavez jr!!

Glad to see the expert on American contenders agrees with me here.

And my friend, Dawson is already head, shoulders, torso, and legs better than Andrade! Dawson has already beat TWO of Ring Magazine's top ten contenders, Im thinking it will be a long time before we can say the same for Andrade. Btw, Dawson's handlers are looking for a shot soon, but after a few more fights for Chad. Dawson also has an excellent amateur career to fall back on.

[Axe]

Bute looks good but is a few fights away from being ready for a title shot.

i agree!! but then andrade looks to be a few MORE fights away from a title shot than bute!!

I would have to agree.

[shoutout]

Stu, I just had another glance at Andrade's resume, and his second biggest win was a decision over 21-0 Willie Stewart. Like the rest of Andrade's opponents (except Grant), Stewart was not in the division's top 15, despite being unbeaten. In his next fight, Stewart lost to 15-5 John Roman William.

I remember watching a middleweight version of Chad Dawson absolutely dominate William (who fights at 175 and higher) with straight punches from the outside and carving his face up for a 4th round TKO. That was when William was a hopeful 9-1 prospect (Dawson was only 8-0 then), not a 15-5 journeyman.

Now Chad is a great fighter, but he was somewhat scrawny and lacked power back when he was 20 years old, so the fact that a middleweight version of Dawson absolutely dominated William--who went on to beat Stewart--is a telling sign of Andrade's weak resume.

agreed!! dawson is already better than andrade, but his handlers have enuf sense not to rush him into a world title match yet...

i wouldnt be surprised, as shrewd a promoter as oscar is, that he realizes andrade isnt that good, but wants to get him a world title shot before he gets exposed by someone who IS GOOD!!

remember, oscar was mentored in promotion by slickster arum, who is in the process of doing the same thing with julio chavez jr!!

Glad to see the expert on American contenders agrees with me here.

And my friend, Dawson is already head, shoulders, torso, and legs better than Andrade! Dawson has already beat TWO of Ring Magazine's top ten contenders, Im thinking it will be a long time before we can say the same for Andrade. Btw, Dawson's handlers are looking for a shot soon, but after a few more fights for Chad. Dawson also has an excellent amateur career to fall back on.

absolutely...dawson & andrade are in different galaxies!! the more i think about it the more i have to say that golden boy is trying to quickly cash in on a title shot for the overhyped andrade before he gets exposed & loses that inflated, synthetic unbeaten record!!

[Axe]

absolutely...dawson & andrade are in different galaxies!! the more i think about it the more i have to say that golden boy is trying to quickly cash in on a title shot for the overhyped andrade before he gets exposed & loses that inflated, synthetic unbeaten record!!

I hadn't realized that it was Golden Boy that promoted him. I think Oscar learned his lesson about letting his guys fight dangerous opponents when he gave the Ouma-Karmazin fight the go ahead.

By the way, Andrade actually has a brother who was the same size as him, same record, etc, and was considered to be a better fighter than Andrade by most...Enrique Ornelas Andrade, who was also with Golden Boy. The guy was recently KOed by some journeyman.

[Autobarn]

I'll have to watch my dvd of Dawson-Harding. Even though Harding was inactive, Eric is very good and even Roy Jones didn't really dominate him (not until the shoulder went).

Andrade sounds like he could well be another Ouma, Ikeke, etc.

If he'd have got to Germany to fight Beyer I could see him going the way of guys like Danny Green and Charles Brewer. i.e. going to Germany, doing some good boxing, but not really trying to win more than 5 rounds (I'm talking their rematches vs a pair of German fighters, in particular...)

[stujones]

Stu, I just had another glance at Andrade's resume, and his second biggest win was a decision over 21-0 Willie Stewart. Like the rest of Andrade's opponents (except Grant), Stewart was not in the division's top 15, despite being unbeaten. In his next fight, Stewart lost to 15-5 John Roman William.

I remember watching a middleweight version of Chad Dawson absolutely dominate William (who fights at 175 and higher) with straight punches from the outside and carving his face up for a 4th round TKO. That was when William was a hopeful 9-1 prospect (Dawson was only 8-0 then), not a 15-5 journeyman.

Now Chad is a great fighter, but he was somewhat scrawny and lacked power back when he was 20 years old, so the fact that a middleweight version of Dawson absolutely dominated William--who went on to beat Stewart--is a telling sign of Andrade's weak resume.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Andrade warranted his eliminator. Although I think Grant did just about he looked decent in his return and Woolnough, Adamu and Wiggins are decent if not world beaters. He was also a very good ex world champion - so that does mean alot.

However, for all their wisdom the WBC felt Andrade deserved a final eliminator - and he won it. Therefore, the WBC should fulfil their promise and give him the opportunity. Thats what an eliminator would be.

I'm not saying that cause I think Andrande is a decent fighter, which I think he is. I'm just saying he won the right before the Kessler vs Beyer fight was negotiated.

Lennox got stripped cause he wouldn't face Byrd, Hatton would get stripped if he doesn't face Urkal. Same here.

Stu, I agree with most of the things you say...but do you remember what happened to Paul Briggs? The WBC made him fight THREE eliminators, and his resume was quite a bit better than Andrade's at the time.

Yes, very tough on Briggs. Woods also looked set to fight 2 eliminators before a crack at the IBF title. He fought Delisle (1) and his match with Johnson was orginally panned to be an eliminator, untill Tarver and Johnson stated they had no intention of fighting anyone but themselves.

However, I'm not saying cause Briggs and Woods (would have) fought two decent eliminators - that Adameck should also.... What I am saying its the IMO the sanctioning bodies were wrong to make a fighter fight two eliminators (unless it is called an eliminator for the #1 spot). Eliminators are supposed to be just that. Win the eliminator, your next fight should be for the title.