Evaluation of Alexander Povetkin's career

[DrDuke]

So, several days ago Povetkin has announced retirement from boxing. He is a one of those fighters, who brought me into boxing, he is a one of few boxers, whose career I've been following entirely, which, however, was quite easy for me, as I'm Russian. Actually, I've never been an obligatory fan of my countrymen boxers, but Povetkin obviously impressed me enough to root for him since the Olympics. Thus, it's interesting for me to evaluate his career.

First of all, I think, it's important to estimate Povetkin as a boxer. He truly was a skillful competitor. Probably, it's fair to say, that he adopted the notorious Eastern European style, which means being one-dimensional and robotic, but Povetkin was very good at his dimension. His offensive skills were high, his technique was polished. He was really good in going forward, working hard and breaking down his opponents, what was aided by huge power. He had almost every big scalp with his methodical game, workrate and roughness. Byrd, Chambers, Chagaev, Huck, Charr, Takam, Hammer, Hunter (although it's a draw) - he stuck to his game through his entire career and it was beneficial for him, because he was able to deliver his power that way.

Talking about disadvantages of Povetkin's style, it's important to name a lack of creativity, fluidness, ability to overcome adversity. A pretty common set for the Eastern European hard-working methodical fellows. In the Huck bout, which he arguably lost, he wasn't able to deal with the opponents toughness and dirty tricks. He was forced to bend down all night long, because he found no better escape plan in bad situations. However, you can argue, that he underestimated Huck, wasn't prepared properly and tired fast. Yet in the Klitschko bout he wasn't able to do anything at all against the jab-and-grab tactics of Wlad. Also, Povetkin went clueless, when he was hurt. He wasn't hurt often thankfully to his chin, but in the Joshua bout this disadvantage finally turned crucial, as Povetkin wasn't able to do anything, but going backwards after being rocked.

To conclude the evaluation of the style it's also important to note, that Povetkin should have relied more on his jab. Occasionally his offence went one-dimensional, as sometimes he sank in primitive power-punching attempts. Pretty much all his success in his career was scored with power combinations. Yet against Klitschko Povetkin's break-him-down-with-power tactics didn't work at all. Sometimes he kinda wanted to be like Mike Tyson, but Tyson was on levels better in cutting the distance. Povetkin had great left hook, right hand, downstairs-upstairs switching, but he mostly went directly to this stuff, only with some primitive faints, without any more ingenious setups.

The main problem of Povetkin's career, in my opinion, was his early promotion and coaching. And his team new that. Look at Povetkin's track to the top. He was in the elimination tourney for Klitschko's IBF strap and he won it by defeating Chris Byrd and Eddie Chambers. After that the Klitschko fight was nearly made, but Povetkin pulled out due to an injury, as it had been officially claimed. Soon after his original coach Valeriy Belov was changed to Teddy Atlas. It my opinion, it simply was a move to save Povetkin from possible hard loss to Wlad, to give him more time to prepare. Actually, even the Chambers bout showed some holes in Sasha's game, his team definitely saw it that way.

Atlas was a total mistake. His approach wasn't fitting to Povetkin at all. You can even see this during the Chagaev bout, when Teddy was saying Povetkin all his pretentious Rocky-movie styled nonsense instead of tactical suggestions. The fight itself was tactical and didn't have any drama, even in rare moments, when Chagaev looked better. Atlas looked like a clown. No surprise, that he didn't last long in Povetkin's team.

After Atlas the team Povetkin tried Russian legends, Alexander Zimin and Kostya Tszyu. Well, Tszyu was a strange choice, as he wasn't known as a great coach and he didn't become a one, that's why his time in the Povetkin's camp was brief. Zimin was an accomplished coach, in the pros he was known mostly for being a trainer of Yuri Arbachakov, but his methods obviously didn't work well with Povetkin. However, there was a belief in Zimin from the side of the Povetkin's team. With him Sasha was finally tracked to Klitschko, but we all know, how it ended up.

So, Povetkin had a very arguable track to the top. On the one hand, he was being put away from Klitschko for pretty long. On the other hand, he wasn't matched a lot against truly challenging opponents. He faced Chagaev after Ruslan had lost to Wlad, he was matched against Huck probably because this bout had been seen easy for him. He was facing the likes of Boswell, shot Rahman and Wawrzyk instead of other top guys. It was a typical "preserve 0" track to the championship bout.

After Povetkin lost to Klitschko his career finally went how it should had gone. Probably the main problem was in being managed by Sauerland. After Povetkin teamed up with Ryabinsky and coach Ivan Kirpa, he improved as a boxer and his career went upwards. The bout against Carlos Takam was exactly that kind of fight, which Povetkin had needed much earlier. It was a challenging affair, which made Sasha learn and progress.

Soon Povetkin was tracked to the other title shot, against Wilder, but we all know what happened. In my opinion, Povetkin just became a victim of the sports politics and general World politics of that time. Eventually, Povetkin was even justified in both his drug cases, isn't it thought-provoking? Talking about Povetkin's chances against Wilder, it's pretty fair to see a big possibility of Sasha KOing Wilder back then.

I'd say, 2014-2016 is a period of Povetkin's prime. It featured a KO winning streak over Charr, Takam, Perez, Wach, Duhaupas. He should have faced Wilder in 2016. In my opinion, Povetkin was simply robbed of a title shot. In 2017 years slowly started to show up for Sasha. He decisioned Rudenko and Hammer, whom he could have stopped at least a year earlier. He crushed Price, but not without getting rocked. Still he was able to give a fight to Joshua.

The final part of Povetkin's career was also fine. Obviously, Povetkin was already declined, but still he was able to have a draw with young and fresh Michael Hunter and to KTFO Whyte. It would be perfect, if Povetkin retired after the Whyte win, instantly after getting covid. Sasha had a tough course of corona and clearly he wasn't even at the level of the 1st Whyte bout, when he entered to the 2nd one. Anyway, it's good that Povetkin retired after the Whyte dilogy. Already not perfect, but still in time.

Talking about Povetkin's legacy, it's fair to call him absolutely best Russian heavyweight ever. He wasn't a champion in contrast to Maskaev, Ibragimov and Valuev, but he obviously was a better boxer than all of them, with a better resume. However, with devaluing of belts in the current century a lot of so-called champions can be easily exposed. Povetkin was a top fighter of the division for more than 15 years and he faced a lot of good names.

I'd call Povetkin Russian #3 p4p all time, following Tszyu and Kovalev. In my opinion, Povetkin did more through his career than Arbachakov, Lebedev and Gassiev, despite not grabbing any belts. Although Gassiev has a chance to overcome Povetkin, but I don't believe he will.

To sum it up, that's how I see Povetkin's career. He was far from being a perfect boxer, but he was very good at what he was doing. He was better than many formal heavyweight champions through all boxing history. He had some tracking problems early on, but eventually he appeared to be a long-term top fighter of the heavyweight division. He had a lot of memorable fights, win or lose. It would have been great to see him against the likes of Haye, Wilder, maybe Chisora and someone else, but still he had a very good resume with a lot of exciting fights.

So, what's your opinion about Povetkin's career? Could he be better promoted? Could he achieve more? Was his career satysfying enough?

[margaret thatcher]

the history regulars hate him for some reason

not anything special, but seemed like a competently skillful guy with power in both hands. one of the better combo and inside punch guys of his time. was top 10 or even top 5-ish for what, 15 years? admittedly during weak eras

had a nice if unspectacular career

[DrDuke]

not anything special, but seemed like a competently skillful guy with power in both hands. one of the better combo and inside punch guys of his time. was top 10 or even top 5-ish for what, 15 years? admittedly during weak eras

He was in the Ring's top 10 since 2007, as it has already been correctly pointed out. Mostly in top 5.

In 2007 Povetkin appeared on the 10th place. In 2008 up to the 4th. In 2014 up to the 1st. Unranked in 2016 because of the doping affairs. In 2017 returned as the 4th. In 2018 and 2019 was in top 10, but out of not 5. Up to the 3rd in 2020.

10 times in top 5.

13 times in top 10 officially, 15 if to count 2016 and 2021.

Talking about the eras, yes, the Klitschko era was comparably weak, but the Fury-Wilder-Joshua one is quite good, isn't it?

[gregor]

The beginning of the career (~15 fights) was great. Opponents like Chambers, Byrd, Donald (even if Byrd was a bit past it, and Donald never was ) and winning an eliminator that early. That are not many fighters who started with such a speed, especially nowadays.

That is why the latter part seemed to be kind of dissapointment for me. Basically, 2008-2013 he was just busy finding new ways how not to fight Wlad till he had not much choice.

He fought in weak era, avoided both Klitschkos brothers, and it was quite rare that he fought a worthy opponent. For me, a perfect example of a fighter who could've achieved a lot more (as he definitely had the tools to do it) if only willing to take some risk.

[Crease]

Of his time, he definitely was one of the elite fighters... High-class serious operator.
I think that the Klitchsko brothers will always be ranked ahead of him... I would have always loved to have seen Pov fight David Haye - both men had the power to hurt the others, that would have been fascinating. I also wanted to see him face Kubrat Pulev, but that never came to pass...

Toward the last five years of his career the younger crowd (AJ, Fury, Wilder, Whyte) all seemed to overtake him. But at his best he was most definitely one of the best of the world at his weight class.

[DrDuke]

I think that the Klitchsko brothers will always be ranked ahead of him...

Wlad - definitely. Yet it quite arguable with Vitali.

What were Vitali's best wins? Chisora, Sanders, Peter, Adamek, Arreola?

And Povetkin's? Whyte, Takam, Chagaev, Byrd, Perez, Huck?

[Crease]

Wlad - definitely. Yet it quite arguable with Vitali.
What were Vitali's best wins? Chisora, Sanders, Peter, Adamek, Arreola?
And Povetkin's? Whyte, Takam, Chagaev, Byrd, Perez, Huck?

Vitali was a World Champion for longer and actually was The Number One ranked Heavyweight in the world (when Lewis retired) and he won that WBC belt... Povetkin's WBA title reign was full of question marks, especially that fight against Marco Huck. And Boswell was never really a top 10 HW - Rahman was ten years past his best days...

[DrDuke]

Wlad - definitely. Yet it quite arguable with Vitali.
What were Vitali's best wins? Chisora, Sanders, Peter, Adamek, Arreola?
And Povetkin's? Whyte, Takam, Chagaev, Byrd, Perez, Huck?

Vitali was a World Champion for longer and actually was The Number One ranked Heavyweight in the world (when Lewis retired) and he won that WBC belt... Povetkin's WBA title reign was full of question marks, especially that fight against Marco Huck. And Boswell was never really a top 10 HW - Rahman was ten years past his best days...

Povetkin's WBA reign is utter sh!t, because it was a paper belt and Wlad was the man. Yet Vitali's full-loaded / gold / super-duper version of WBC sucked during Vitali's second reign, cause once again Wlad was the man. Vitali became the man for the short period, after the best guy, to whom Vitali had lost, had retired. Povetkin had never been the man of the division and always was ranked ranked lower than Vitali, but in terms of scalps they are quite even, aren't they? Although Vitali was winning his opponents more convincingly, that's true.

[Crease]

Povetkin's WBA reign is utter sh!t, because it was a paper belt and Wlad was the man. Yet Vitali's full-loaded / gold / super-duper version of WBC sucked during Vitali's second reign, cause once again Wlad was the man. Vitali became the man for the short period, after the best guy, to whom Vitali had lost, had retired. Povetkin had never been the man of the division and always was ranked ranked lower than Vitali, but in terms of scalps they are quite even, aren't they? Although Vitali was winning his opponents more convincingly, that's true.

The one thing that will always go against Vitali is that he left the sport... Had he continue dominating - as his younger brother did - then he may well be ranked ahead of Wlad. Povetkin was one of the best, but he comes in behind both of them, in my book... I also think you would be hard pressed to find people who would pick Povetkin to beat either of the Klitchsko brothers. But as I say, all three were great Heavyweights of their time.

[DrDuke]

Povetkin's WBA reign is utter sh!t, because it was a paper belt and Wlad was the man. Yet Vitali's full-loaded / gold / super-duper version of WBC sucked during Vitali's second reign, cause once again Wlad was the man. Vitali became the man for the short period, after the best guy, to whom Vitali had lost, had retired. Povetkin had never been the man of the division and always was ranked ranked lower than Vitali, but in terms of scalps they are quite even, aren't they? Although Vitali was winning his opponents more convincingly, that's true.

The one thing that will always go against Vitali is that he left the sport... Had he continue dominating - as his younger brother did - then he may well be ranked ahead of Wlad. Povetkin was one of the best, but he comes in behind both of them, in my book... I also think you would be hard pressed to find people who would pick Povetkin to beat either of the Klitchsko brothers. But as I say, all three were great Heavyweights of their time.

Probably I have to agree.

Well, with Wlad it's clear, he jabbed, grabbed, embraced and raped Povetkin damn hard, Sasha nearly got pregnant, I have to admit it despite all pain I suffered watching this.

Vitali's hiatus? Yeah, it's hard to imagine him not repeating his lil brother's career, if Vitali was on his place. But he wasn't, that's the problem indeed.

In terms of legacy on paper only a formality of the WBC strap puts Vitali over Povetkin. In reality they had pretty even resumes. But we also shouldn't forget about Vitali's good loss to Lewis. Head-to-head I'd pick Vitali over Sasha.

[Caractacus]

I don't think he ever got his title shots quite at the right time during his career.

[gilgamesh]

I think he's the best Contender of his generation, he was never truly THE GUY at any point, I know he had various titles here and there, but among the contenders of the last decade. He outranks them all in achievement by a lot.

Though he didn't achieve the same notoriety in America perhaps, I'd put his achievements above Deontay Wilder. Though Wilder's legacy isn't through being written either so he still has time.

[dookus]

Povetkin's WBA reign is utter sh!t, because it was a paper belt and Wlad was the man. Yet Vitali's full-loaded / gold / super-duper version of WBC sucked during Vitali's second reign, cause once again Wlad was the man. Vitali became the man for the short period, after the best guy, to whom Vitali had lost, had retired. Povetkin had never been the man of the division and always was ranked ranked lower than Vitali, but in terms of scalps they are quite even, aren't they? Although Vitali was winning his opponents more convincingly, that's true.

The one thing that will always go against Vitali is that he left the sport... Had he continue dominating - as his younger brother did - then he may well be ranked ahead of Wlad. Povetkin was one of the best, but he comes in behind both of them, in my book... I also think you would be hard pressed to find people who would pick Povetkin to beat either of the Klitchsko brothers. But as I say, all three were great Heavyweights of their time.

Probably I have to agree.

Well, with Wlad it's clear, he jabbed, grabbed, embraced and raped Povetkin damn hard, Sasha nearly got pregnant, I have to admit it despite all pain I suffered watching this.

Vitali's hiatus? Yeah, it's hard to imagine him not repeating his lil brother's career, if Vitali was on his place. But he wasn't, that's the problem indeed.

In terms of legacy on paper only a formality of the WBC strap puts Vitali over Povetkin. In reality they had pretty even resumes. But we also shouldn't forget about Vitali's good loss to Lewis. Head-to-head I'd pick Vitali over Sasha.

Boxing historians 50 years from now are going to have a fúcking nightmare trying to work out where you're meant to rank Vitali historically. The gap between what he probably could have done and actually achieved, for a guy who retired in his 40s, is pretty extraordinary.

[DrDuke]

Boxing historians 50 years from now are going to have a fúcking nightmare trying to work out where you're meant to rank Vitali historically. The gap between what he probably could have done and actually achieved, for a guy who retired in his 40s, is pretty extraordinary.

Man, that's the favorite subject of this forum, be careful.

[gilgamesh]

The one thing that will always go against Vitali is that he left the sport... Had he continue dominating - as his younger brother did - then he may well be ranked ahead of Wlad. Povetkin was one of the best, but he comes in behind both of them, in my book... I also think you would be hard pressed to find people who would pick Povetkin to beat either of the Klitchsko brothers. But as I say, all three were great Heavyweights of their time.

Probably I have to agree.

Well, with Wlad it's clear, he jabbed, grabbed, embraced and raped Povetkin damn hard, Sasha nearly got pregnant, I have to admit it despite all pain I suffered watching this.

Vitali's hiatus? Yeah, it's hard to imagine him not repeating his lil brother's career, if Vitali was on his place. But he wasn't, that's the problem indeed.

In terms of legacy on paper only a formality of the WBC strap puts Vitali over Povetkin. In reality they had pretty even resumes. But we also shouldn't forget about Vitali's good loss to Lewis. Head-to-head I'd pick Vitali over Sasha.

Boxing historians 50 years from now are going to have a fúcking nightmare trying to work out where you're meant to rank Vitali historically. The gap between what he probably could have done and actually achieved, for a guy who retired in his 40s, is pretty extraordinary.

You have to rank a man on what he accomplished, not could've and would've.

As is, he either isn't or is barely Top 20 all time.

[dookus]

Boxing historians 50 years from now are going to have a fúcking nightmare trying to work out where you're meant to rank Vitali historically. The gap between what he probably could have done and actually achieved, for a guy who retired in his 40s, is pretty extraordinary.

Man, that's the favorite subject of this forum, be careful.

*exits*

[funso banjo baby]

He never won the title but he will go down as a great contender.

Was the bona fide number 1 for a long time

Shame the actual title challenge against Klit was such a disappointment, Klit had no intention of fighting, and the referee was perfectly fine with that.

I wouldn't call it controversial.......just disappointing

Certainly Povetkin's Ko highlight reel is up there with the likes of Jerry Quarry et Al (actually , I would suggest he occupies the same space in history as Jerry)?

[DrDuke]

Certainly Povetkin's Ko highlight reel is up there with the likes of Jerry Quarry et Al (actually , I would suggest he occupies the same space in history as Jerry)?

They are close. Although Quarry gotta be higher at least because of the Lyle win.

[oogiebe]

Pov had a really good career. Remaining a top contender and some pretty good wins over several eras says a lot. I love the Quarry comparison here.

[Ambling Alp II]

By no means a big Quarry backer. However, the guy did beat Ron Lyle and Earnie Shavers. That has to count for something. That dwarfs anything Povetkin did. Quarry had had some other decent wins as well. He fought in the strongest era of the division. Povetkin is not at his his level.

[oogiebe]

By no means a big Quarry backer. However, the guy did beat Ron Lyle and Earnie Shavers. That has to count for something. That dwarfs anything Povetkin did. Quarry had had some other decent wins as well. He fought in the strongest era of the division. Povetkin is not at his his level.

He is. Quarry didn't just come up short in his big fights, he came up way short. The win over Lyle was good, but Lyle was still developing. I like the comp.

[DrDuke]

By no means a big Quarry backer. However, the guy did beat Ron Lyle and Earnie Shavers. That has to count for something. That dwarfs anything Povetkin did. Quarry had had some other decent wins as well. He fought in the strongest era of the division. Povetkin is not at his his level.

Especially Shavers dwarfs anything.

[Ambling Alp II]

Right back at you.

Would love to know what big win Povetkin had that we are supposed to be impressed with. This ought to be good.

[Ambling Alp II]

By no means a big Quarry backer. However, the guy did beat Ron Lyle and Earnie Shavers. That has to count for something. That dwarfs anything Povetkin did. Quarry had had some other decent wins as well. He fought in the strongest era of the division. Povetkin is not at his his level.

He is. Quarry didn't just come up short in his big fights, he came up way short. The win over Lyle was good, but Lyle was still developing. I like the comp.

Well of course he came up short against Ali Frazier, and Norton. Not saying he was on that level.

The Lyle win was a big deal. Lyle was highly rated at the time. He had already scored some decent wins. That's bigger than anything Povetkin ever did
And Quarry beat Shavers. Those guys were a hell of a lot better than any of Povetkins wins. There other wins that were respectable as well.

Neither Povetkin or Quarry were ever close to the best. They do have that in common.
There is a huge difference though. Look at the heavyweight division when Quarry fought. Then look at it when Povetkin fought. More than a little difference in quality there.

[DrDuke]

Right back at you.

Would love to know what big win Povetkin had that we are supposed to be impressed with. This ought to be good.

will remain only with you, as ya don't know about those.