What really is the biggest upset in boxing?

[brilo33]

Tyson - Douglas always get mentioned, and I understand why but what else if any would you put number 1?

but was it though , i mean wasnt aj losing to ruiz not on par or mccall beating lewis, douglas wasnt a bum remeber reading his ma died leading up to that fight he was big in good shape as well,

[Coco]

Tyson - Douglas always get mentioned, and I understand why but what else if any would you put number 1?

but was it though , i mean wasnt aj losing to ruiz not on par or mccall beating lewis, douglas wasnt a bum remeber reading his ma died leading up to that fight he was big in good shape as well,

For me the Tyson fight should be regarded as one of the biggest upsets because he had been built up so much as an invincible it was such a shock to the majority that he lost.

Now of course, more expert fans know that nobody is invincible despite some people still buying into the Tyson hype.

Furthermore more expert fans had seen that the wheels were beginning to come off with his lifestyle.

Nevertheless Douglas was nothing special and it was still a surprise for the more knowledgable.

[brilo33]

Tyson - Douglas always get mentioned, and I understand why but what else if any would you put number 1?

but was it though , i mean wasnt aj losing to ruiz not on par or mccall beating lewis, douglas wasnt a bum remeber reading his ma died leading up to that fight he was big in good shape as well,

For me the Tyson fight should be regarded as one of the biggest upsets because he had been built up so much as an invincible it was such a shock to the majority that he lost.

Now of course, more expert fans know that nobody is invincible despite some people still buying into the Tyson hype.

Furthermore more expert fans had seen that the wheels were beginning to come off with his lifestyle.

Nevertheless Douglas was nothing special and it was still a surprise for the more knowledgable.

i get that no doubt its a shock, but tyson was this beast wild man, but i bet when you saw lewis go down from mccall u thought dam putting it nicely

[Coco]

but was it though , i mean wasnt aj losing to ruiz not on par or mccall beating lewis, douglas wasnt a bum remeber reading his ma died leading up to that fight he was big in good shape as well,

For me the Tyson fight should be regarded as one of the biggest upsets because he had been built up so much as an invincible it was such a shock to the majority that he lost.

Now of course, more expert fans know that nobody is invincible despite some people still buying into the Tyson hype.

Furthermore more expert fans had seen that the wheels were beginning to come off with his lifestyle.

Nevertheless Douglas was nothing special and it was still a surprise for the more knowledgable.

i get that no doubt its a shock, but tyson was this beast wild man, but i bet when you saw lewis go down from mccall u thought dam putting it nicely

From expert opinion, the difference between Tyson and Douglas was less than Lewis and McCall, but in reality Lewis had nowhere near the fame or hype so Lewis losing was not an earthquake.

Tyson losing was an earthquake.

[brilo33]

For me the Tyson fight should be regarded as one of the biggest upsets because he had been built up so much as an invincible it was such a shock to the majority that he lost.

Now of course, more expert fans know that nobody is invincible despite some people still buying into the Tyson hype.

Furthermore more expert fans had seen that the wheels were beginning to come off with his lifestyle.

Nevertheless Douglas was nothing special and it was still a surprise for the more knowledgable.

i get that no doubt its a shock, but tyson was this beast wild man, but i bet when you saw lewis go down from mccall u thought dam putting it nicely

From expert opinion, the difference between Tyson and Douglas was less than Lewis and McCall, but in reality Lewis had nowhere near the fame or hype so Lewis losing was not an earthquake.

Tyson losing was an earthquake.

no doubt kinda what i was saying tyson was so billed up him losing was like he died that night , but in boxing skills i think its different , so i agree that was the lost shocked the world tyson losing and i remember i was young about 6 ish 7 8 and even in primary school we were talking about it

[brilo33]

out of interest what was the odds on clay v liston

[bennie]

Clay was 7/1. He had been floored by our own Henry Cooper in his previous fight. On the subject of upsets, how about an upset draw? Who could have foreseen Vito Antuofermo holding Marvin Hagler to a 15-round draw in 1979, or Mike Dokes struggling to a 15-round draw with Mike Weaver in 1983, after Dokes had floored and stopped Weaver in 63 seconds in their first meeting (albeit prematurely).

[TheLeprechaun]

Danny Williams beating Tyson was a big upset so I imagine Douglas doing it was a huge one. Lewis Rahman 1 was a very big upset too.

[Onetimeonly]

Clay was 7/1. He had been floored by our own Henry Cooper in his previous fight. On the subject of upsets, how about an upset draw? Who could have foreseen Vito Antuofermo holding Marvin Hagler to a 15-round draw in 1979, or Mike Dokes struggling to a 15-round draw with Mike Weaver in 1983, after Dokes had floored and stopped Weaver in 63 seconds in their first meeting (albeit prematurely).

Huge robbery that hagler fight.

[bennie]

Clay was 7/1. He had been floored by our own Henry Cooper in his previous fight. On the subject of upsets, how about an upset draw? Who could have foreseen Vito Antuofermo holding Marvin Hagler to a 15-round draw in 1979, or Mike Dokes struggling to a 15-round draw with Mike Weaver in 1983, after Dokes had floored and stopped Weaver in 63 seconds in their first meeting (albeit prematurely).

Huge robbery that hagler fight.

A bad night for the officials. Referee Carlos Padilla made a bizarre decision to stop Wilfred Benitez with six seconds remaining in Benitez's 15-rounder with Sugar Ray Leonard. Benitez had been down but Padilla's intervention was terrible.

[Wee Tommy]

Clay was 7/1. He had been floored by our own Henry Cooper in his previous fight. On the subject of upsets, how about an upset draw? Who could have foreseen Vito Antuofermo holding Marvin Hagler to a 15-round draw in 1979, or Mike Dokes struggling to a 15-round draw with Mike Weaver in 1983, after Dokes had floored and stopped Weaver in 63 seconds in their first meeting (albeit prematurely).

Huge robbery that hagler fight.

A bad night for the officials. Referee Carlos Padilla made a bizarre decision to stop Wilfred Benitez with six seconds remaining in Benitez's 15-rounder with Sugar Ray Leonard. Benitez had been down but Padilla's intervention was terrible.

Not that I’ve seen loads of fights he’s reffed, but he always seemed an overly fussy, interfering referee for me. Pulling hands away, getting involved when he didn’t need to.

I’ve no doubt that a lot of referees are incompetent at best and corrupt in a lot of cases.

[brilo33]

Clay was 7/1. He had been floored by our own Henry Cooper in his previous fight. On the subject of upsets, how about an upset draw? Who could have foreseen Vito Antuofermo holding Marvin Hagler to a 15-round draw in 1979, or Mike Dokes struggling to a 15-round draw with Mike Weaver in 1983, after Dokes had floored and stopped Weaver in 63 seconds in their first meeting (albeit prematurely).

thats huge , and liston was a gangster in every term of the word so to have a kid beat him up is huge, i guess it was in a time of less media

[bennie]

Huge robbery that hagler fight.

A bad night for the officials. Referee Carlos Padilla made a bizarre decision to stop Wilfred Benitez with six seconds remaining in Benitez's 15-rounder with Sugar Ray Leonard. Benitez had been down but Padilla's intervention was terrible.

Not that I’ve seen loads of fights he’s reffed, but he always seemed an overly fussy, interfering referee for me. Pulling hands away, getting involved when he didn’t need to.

I’ve no doubt that a lot of referees are incompetent at best and corrupt in a lot of cases.

Padilla made a name for himself when he refereed the Thrilla in Manila back in 1975. The arrogant American media were scathing of a local referee getting the job (and not one of their own) and there was talk of the occasion proving too much for an unknown referee like Padilla. However, Padilla proved as magnificent as Ali and Frazier over the course of 14 ruining rounds and the American press acknowledged him. This encouraged Padilla to relocate to the States and he landed all the big fights over the next few years, including Duran-Leonard, Sanchez-Gomez, Lopez-Ayala, Minter-Antuofermo and too many others to mention.
For the most part he did OK but there were obvious chinks. When Minter fought Antuofermo for the undisputed world middleweight title in Las Vegas in March 1980, Padilla kept separating the two fighters as soon as Antuofermo got close, even when there was no clinching. He refused to allow the shorter Antuofermo (the champion) to fight inside and it was Minter who got the decision and the title. Trainer Freddie Brown, who helped train Antuofermo and also co-trained Duran, made damn sure that Padilla kept well away from Duran a few months later in Montreal when he scolded the referee in the ring before the first bell. Duran liked to wrestle his opponents in the clinches and tire them out.
Ultimately, a referee is judged on his ability to stop a fight at the right time and Padilla blew it when Danny Lopez defended his WBC featherweight title against Mike Ayala in San Antonio. Ayala fought an inspired fight but went down in the 11th round, his nose broken, and it looked the end for the challenger. Sure enough, Padilla counted him out but then began dithering with ringsiders. With both camps in the ring, the Lopez camp celebrating, Padilla suddenly declared that the fight should continue. It was unbelievable. His actions probably shortened the career of Lopez, who won by stoppage in the 15th round, and could have got Ayala seriously hurt.
Sadly, Padilla did get a fighter seriously hurt when he handled the Gaby Canizales-Richie Sandoval world title fight in Las Vegas in March 1986. Sandoval was dead at the weight and took a beating from the start. He was floored in the first round, again in the fifth, and then went down twice in the seventh. The fight needed stopping after the second knockdown in the seventh but amazingly, Padilla waved it back on and Sandoval was dropped yet again in the round and it was a bad knockdown, a bad knockout. Sandoval required brain surgery and never fought again.

[orbtastic]

Who was the ref in the Duran/Moore massacre? He was awful.

[bennie]

Who was the ref in the Duran/Moore massacre? He was awful.

Yes, Ernesto Magana turned it into a massacre. Funnily enough, I was watching the second fight between Gene Hatcher and Argentina's Ubaldo Sacco the other day and Hatcher, who is badly cut, is taken to the ringside doctor by Magana and the doctor instructs Magana to stop the fight. Incredibly, Magana completely ignores the advice and waves the fight back on. About half-a-minute later, Magana stops the action and decides to wave it off himself. The doctor is going ape at ringside.

[stujones]

I think it has to be Tyson vs Douglas - but Tyson vs Douglas and Lewis vs Rahman were ones in which if you take all into account and look at it in hindsight - perhaps it wasn't as big as others..... Douglas was actually a geniune top 10 ranked Heavyweight in 1990 and was beating Tony Tucker before oddly folding like he did (both mentally and physically) and Tyson was a car crash at the time.

Lewis vs Rahman was one of those fights when you saw the condition of Lewis you thought "oh oh, he aint prepared right".

So for me purely from a boxing stand point - I would say AJ vs Ruiz - AJ was universally ranked #1 Heavyweight at the time (as was Tyson) - Ruiz was not in the top 10 in a crap era for the division (at least Douglas was and wasn't a last minute replacement). They all say Ruiz coming in at late noticed affected AJ's preperations - lets get real, it should be Ruiz less at his best than AJ.

Lewis vs McCall though is pretty high - again McCall was best known as a sparring partner who lost EVERYTIME he stepped up.

In terms of biggest sporting upset - well I think Leicester City in 2016 might take that one. Goran Ivanisovic Wimbledon win was also something special.

[handsofstone]

Not the biggest but surely a 17 year old Benitez beating a seasoned champ like Cervantes must've been staggering at the time, he effing schooled him as well, never a split

[oogiebe]

Not the biggest but surely a 17 year old Benitez beating a seasoned champ like Cervantes must've been staggering at the time, he effing schooled him as well, never a split

Remember being floored by that fight. Didn't think he was going to beat antonio.

[mickey1975]

I think it has to be Tyson vs Douglas - but Tyson vs Douglas and Lewis vs Rahman were ones in which if you take all into account and look at it in hindsight - perhaps it wasn't as big as others..... Douglas was actually a geniune top 10 ranked Heavyweight in 1990 and was beating Tony Tucker before oddly folding like he did (both mentally and physically) and Tyson was a car crash at the time.

Lewis vs Rahman was one of those fights when you saw the condition of Lewis you thought "oh oh, he aint prepared right".

So for me purely from a boxing stand point - I would say AJ vs Ruiz - AJ was universally ranked #1 Heavyweight at the time (as was Tyson) - Ruiz was not in the top 10 in a crap era for the division (at least Douglas was and wasn't a last minute replacement). They all say Ruiz coming in at late noticed affected AJ's preperations - lets get real, it should be Ruiz less at his best than AJ.

Lewis vs McCall though is pretty high - again McCall was best known as a sparring partner who lost EVERYTIME he stepped up.

In terms of biggest sporting upset - well I think Leicester City in 2016 might take that one. Goran Ivanisovic Wimbledon win was also something special.

Ruiz had run Parker close and AJ wasn't universally number 1. Most had him second at best. Tyson was seen as the second coming.

[stujones]

I think it has to be Tyson vs Douglas - but Tyson vs Douglas and Lewis vs Rahman were ones in which if you take all into account and look at it in hindsight - perhaps it wasn't as big as others..... Douglas was actually a geniune top 10 ranked Heavyweight in 1990 and was beating Tony Tucker before oddly folding like he did (both mentally and physically) and Tyson was a car crash at the time.

Lewis vs Rahman was one of those fights when you saw the condition of Lewis you thought "oh oh, he aint prepared right".

So for me purely from a boxing stand point - I would say AJ vs Ruiz - AJ was universally ranked #1 Heavyweight at the time (as was Tyson) - Ruiz was not in the top 10 in a crap era for the division (at least Douglas was and wasn't a last minute replacement). They all say Ruiz coming in at late noticed affected AJ's preperations - lets get real, it should be Ruiz less at his best than AJ.

Lewis vs McCall though is pretty high - again McCall was best known as a sparring partner who lost EVERYTIME he stepped up.

In terms of biggest sporting upset - well I think Leicester City in 2016 might take that one. Goran Ivanisovic Wimbledon win was also something special.

Ruiz had run Parker close and AJ wasn't universally number 1. Most had him second at best. Tyson was seen as the second coming.

At the time of the fight? - I don't think many had Tyson Fury as number #1 after he drew with Wilder - Joshua was coming off pretty solid wins and had partially unified. Post Ruiz and post Wilder 2 - yes I accept most (including me) have Joshua at number 2.

Yes Ruiz ran Parker close - but that was several years before the Joshua fight and Joshua beat Parker pretty clearly in a dull one. Ruiz had done nothing post Parker to show he was world class and wasn't in the top 10 in a pretty dire division. Lets be truthful - NO ONE said "oh Eddie has replaced Miller with Ruiz" - it was more "oh FFS Ruiz he's just out of shape who poses no threat". No one at the time even gave him a punchers chance, the Parker fight suggested that his KO% was more of a case of the level of opponent as opposed to him having a world class pop. This was supposed to be a US Debut - this wasn't supposed to be a banana skin.

On Paper for the reasons you outlined Tyson vs Douglas will always stand as a bigger upset as Tyson was the second coming - but Douglas had done a hell of a lot more prior to the Tyson fight than Ruiz had done - he'd beaten former and future world champions (quite handily) and was winning the fight with Tucker - showing some excellent handspeed before folding quite bizarely - but even discounting the Tucker fight he was far more proven than Ruiz and a geniune top ten fighter.

It seems like after these fight - Ruiz stock seem to rise with the after timers noting the great hand speed, the devasting power and the dodginess of Joshua's chin. Yet Douglas' prior to Tyson resume after the Tyson fight seemed to dimish and it was like he was some kind of B grade journeyman fighter. I feel Tyson pretty much fought among the best challengers out there when he was champion (minus Witherspoon, Holyfield and a couple of others) - Douglas was NOT the worse of the challengers - I would say Bruno and Williams were less worthy of their shots. Douglas was a legitmate contender and geniune deserving challenger - I don't think Ruiz was.

Rahman vs Lewis - again at the time on paper was a huge upset - Rahman was not in the top 10 and had lost everytime he stepped up. But Lewis' conditioning and Rahman post Lewis career - in which he racked up some world class wins and won the WBC title rightfully has "dampened" how much of an upset that was.

What about another fight though from around this time - Moorer vs Foreman. Moorer was coming off a career best win and looked very impressive against Holyfield - Foreman was 44 and looked pretty crap vs Morrison and Stewart and I don't think was in the top 10 at the time of the fight.

[JamesPhilips]

It will be Jake Paul - Canelo.

[bennie]

Not the biggest but surely a 17 year old Benitez beating a seasoned champ like Cervantes must've been staggering at the time, he effing schooled him as well, never a split

Remember being floored by that fight. Didn't think he was going to beat antonio.

If they put the same storyline in a movie, nobody would believe it. Benitez was truly gifted and the only men to beat him in his prime were Leonard and Hearns - and it took them 15 rounds to get the better of him. Wilfred should never have been stopped in the final seconds against Leonard but referee Carlos Padilla had a moment of madness. Sadly, Benitez was finished after Hearns outscored him in front of a disappointing crowd in New Orleans in late 1982 but the Puerto Rican refused to admit it and carried on and on until the bitter end. Tim Mo of Boxing News used to say that the intelligent boxers are not intelligent outside the ring.

[mickey1975]

It will be Jake Paul - Canelo.

It would, but even that wouldn't rock the world like Douglas-Tyson! Boxing simply isn't big enough anymore. Honeyghan got bigger write ups than Jake Paul would.

[JamesPhilips]

WilFred Benitez is still alive at 62. I had thought he might have passed as I know he's had health issues and CTE. Money issues too.

Will we ever have another 17 Yr old champ? It's amazing really. Canelo would've been the only recent candidate as he turned pro at 15, but it seems unimaginable now.

[coghaugen11]

Joe Joyce is knocking on the door. Oh, wait....