do other countries have a journeyman scene like the uk does?

[coneye]

Lots of so called journeymen , have the nouce and the skills to demolish some of there opponents ,, but heh they just know there never gonna be top draw and want to stay busy , So they go with the flow , not hard to tell just look for swings like the backdoor in the wind ,, the big slaps that sound and look good , but do no harm , pulling back a bit if there on top or sence theve hurt the hero , signs are always there

[Noxy]

Good point above about being undefeated. People go on about that way too much in boxing. A defeat isn't even that bad, one good win and the fighter is back in the mix.

[JamesPhilips]

When did the obsession with undefeated start? With Marciano? In what decade- the 70s or 80s or 90s? (Was definitely a thing in 1990s for sure.)

It's annoying. Boxing should take a page out of MMA. Good matching, losses on most fighters records and not a big deal. I mean what experienced fighter is undefeated in MMA? Khabib obviously and Jon Jones, though Jones has a DQ loss...

[Coco]

All countries have the journeyman scene like us

[margaret thatcher]

All countries have the journeyman scene like us

i dont see nearly the abundance of guys with so many losses, possibly the most prolific usa journeymen out there now is terrel woods, and he is a 'mere' 24-49.....

americans and mexicans just for example have more wins, less losses

[jonp]

All countries have the journeyman scene like us

i dont see nearly the abundance of guys with so many losses

Thats because theres no countries in europe with the amount of pros the uk have.More numbers more lads on the road. The differnce is some countries about 90 percent of there pros are journeymen
.Also countries with low numbers of pros and shows dont really have the need for journeymen theres not enough work to to support them.
So they basically bring over lads from places such as latvia lithuania georgia hungary etc where basically most of there boxers are journeymen.
One of the reason british fighters dont get work abroad is because even the lads with losing records are a higher standard than what they are used too.

[Ruthless-RKO]

All countries have the journeyman scene like us

i dont see nearly the abundance of guys with so many losses, possibly the most prolific usa journeymen out there now is terrel woods, and he is a 'mere' 24-49.....

americans and mexicans just for example have more wins, less losses

Yeh.. it’s true. You get prospects fighting guys like 4-1 or 4-3 or something..

Not 4-86

[Coco]

https://boxrec.com/en/event/837338

https://boxrec.com/en/event/830752

https://boxrec.com/en/event/835553

https://boxrec.com/en/event/836380

Just a few examples from the Saturday just gone

NEWSFLASH- All over the world you have home fighters with professional losers in the other corner.

[margaret thatcher]

of course, but is there another place in the world you find so many fighters with records like 2-70, like the guy sam noakes just beat? there are multiple uk journeymen with over 100 losses right now

many of the records in those links are like 2-3 , 1-3, 0-2, with the occasional big 0-12


even records there like 10-23 and 5-16 and 8-24 are better than the bulk of journeymen records here. willy warburton is regarded as one of the best journeymen and he;s won 27 from 201.

[Ruthless-RKO]

https://boxrec.com/en/event/837338

https://boxrec.com/en/event/830752

https://boxrec.com/en/event/835553

https://boxrec.com/en/event/836380

Just a few examples from the Saturday just gone

NEWSFLASH- All over the world you have home fighters with professional losers in the other corner.

Only one person has more than 30 losses from those. Maybe 2. I skimmed it.

In the UK, we have journeyman fighting twice a month in 4 rounders.

And there are a lot of them with over 100 losses.

[REEVE]

If you are not great at your sport In terms of a level for titles I see no issues with journeyman fighting for a few grand every other week. The issue I have is that I see it like a job and giving foreign boxers a wage from other countries imported here is a no no for me. I'm sure there are journeyman all over the world and very much doubt they would make the sort of money British journeyman get.

I'm guessing a journeyman Inthis country could make 5k a fight for a 4 or 6 rounder. Providing he doesn't get koed he could make a decent living fighting 3 times a month.

Knowhere near that much mate...1200 w exs, take off 12.5% management, 10% trainer, get a scran few beers on way home y left w 800/850

Bit more for 6 rounder. My best pay for 4 rounds was 1850 but i only got 2k for an 8 rounder...depends on the promoter

[Coco]

The only way to earn a living on the road is by fighting regular, and its a damn tough way to do it, and there are no fortunes to be made

[MasterG]

If you are not great at your sport In terms of a level for titles I see no issues with journeyman fighting for a few grand every other week. The issue I have is that I see it like a job and giving foreign boxers a wage from other countries imported here is a no no for me. I'm sure there are journeyman all over the world and very much doubt they would make the sort of money British journeyman get.

I'm guessing a journeyman Inthis country could make 5k a fight for a 4 or 6 rounder. Providing he doesn't get koed he could make a decent living fighting 3 times a month.

Knowhere near that much mate...1200 w exs, take off 12.5% management, 10% trainer, get a scran few beers on way home y left w 800/850

Bit more for 6 rounder. My best pay for 4 rounds was 1850 but i only got 2k for an 8 rounder...depends on the promoter

To be honest thought you'd get more than that

[HomicideHenry]

Prior to the creation of federal IDs courtesy of the Ali Act here in the states, there was a very large class of journeymen. Thanks to politicians like John McCain and Harry Reid, smaller promotions have essentially died out completely where journeymen and tiersmen could go and compete fairly.

These days it's more like being thrown to the wolves. That's a large part of the reason why I never continued boxing. The only offers I got were matches I had absolutely no chance of winning. I remember being offered $5,000 to take on Bruce Seldon's son, lmao, and I was 0-1-0.

I know people criticize the hell out of Stacy Goodson and other promoters like him for staging low level matches that were quite laughable, but--- America really has declined in a lot of ways in the sport of boxing when it became geared towards just the creme de la creme.

I would love to see some sort of new reformation in boxing where you could strictly promote low-level matches and not have to pay the same kind of fees that high level promoters do. $10,000+ bonds, etc--- just for local guys who work full-time to swap leather, is beyond ridiculous as far as I'm concerned.

[iestyn500]

All countries have the journeyman scene like us

Imo we have far more career journeymen, as that there only job so they cant get knocked out. So all they do is try and survive the fight even thou they have the skills to do much better. If they win then they wont get as many fights. We dont get that many who go out and win Bret Fideo is a good example,#


You watch american cards and the people they use for their prospects are oppenents that might still have losing records but not like our numbers and they dont fight nearly as much. So when they actually fight they go for and they dont care about getting stopped as much, I think thats one of the reasons why the american based fighters are quite often ahead of uk

[HomicideHenry]

All countries have the journeyman scene like us

Imo we have far more career journeymen, as that there only job so they cant get knocked out. So all they do is try and survive the fight even thou they have the skills to do much better. If they win then they wont get as many fights. We dont get that many who go out and win Bret Fideo is a good example,#


You watch american cards and the people they use for their prospects are oppenents that might still have losing records but not like our numbers and they dont fight nearly as much. So when they actually fight they go for and they dont care about getting stopped as much, I think thats one of the reasons why the american based fighters are quite often ahead of uk

I disagree, as an American, respectfully of course.

The American boxing scene only SEEMS to be better in some aspects, because it's geared towards prospects and the elite. It's always at the forefront. The reality is there is no real "middle of the road" class in America anymore. When I was a kid, you would see guys like Danny Wofford or Emanuel Augustus all the time. Guys with .500 records with dozens of matches, etc. It's a rarity anymore, because quite frankly the journeyman class has been killed due to over regulation and the disappearance of "mom and pop" promotions that used to be scattered all across this country.

Boxing gyms have been replaced with martial arts dojos, etc--- it's just not as popular as it once was, largely because it's been taken out of the public square. And knock the journeymen all you want in the United Kingdom, but, guys like Peter Buckley were NOT bums. They could box, they could fight. They seldom ever got stopped. The ONLY reason why they lost more times than not was because they were full-time workers, and part-time boxers.

Now, some men, made losing a business because they could make more money losing than winning. Odd as that sounds. Reggie Strickland is a prime example of that. He would have ten or twenty losses in a row, but out of nowhere school some young up and coming punk with 5-0-0, 10-0-0, 20-0-0, etc records. He was far and away better than his 276 losses indicated. I'm sure some men in the UK were that way too--- Tony Booth, for example, had 71 losses when he beat 10-1 Jamie Warters. Looks can be deceiving. So are records.

When things like that happen you come away with two conclusions:

1) The con was on; the losing record guy was better than anyone thought

2) The prospect was spoonfed wins and met the wrong "hand picked dead man"

Let's focus on the latter for a second. The best example of that has got to be when 4-3-0 Shawn McLean knocked out 38-0-0 Faruq Saleem, a man whose entire career was padded with wins over guys who had no chance of winning. There's an axiom in boxing, "Show me a man with an undefeated record and I'll show you a man who hasn't fought anybody," and 99/100 that is true. Unfortunately, these days, since the over regulation of boxing in the early 2000's the "0" has been so pushed and so pressed that the moment a guy loses he's considered damaged goods forever.

I am pretty much convinced that most of these undefeated guys today would probably of gotten derailed by someone like Bert Cooper back in the day, because their mettle has never truly been tested. Guys like Bert Cooper were a vital part of the business, and you can thank Jesus Christ Almighty God everyday that you have a large journeyman class in the United Kingdom because THAT is largely the reason why British boxing is ahead of curve because America abandoned this special class of people who made men into better men.

[iestyn500]

All countries have the journeyman scene like us

Imo we have far more career journeymen, as that there only job so they cant get knocked out. So all they do is try and survive the fight even thou they have the skills to do much better. If they win then they wont get as many fights. We dont get that many who go out and win Bret Fideo is a good example,#


You watch american cards and the people they use for their prospects are oppenents that might still have losing records but not like our numbers and they dont fight nearly as much. So when they actually fight they go for and they dont care about getting stopped as much, I think thats one of the reasons why the american based fighters are quite often ahead of uk

I disagree, as an American, respectfully of course.

The American boxing scene only SEEMS to be better in some aspects, because it's geared towards prospects and the elite. It's always at the forefront. The reality is there is no real "middle of the road" class in America anymore. When I was a kid, you would see guys like Danny Wofford or Emanuel Augustus all the time. Guys with .500 records with dozens of matches, etc. It's a rarity anymore, because quite frankly the journeyman class has been killed due to over regulation and the disappearance of "mom and pop" promotions that used to be scattered all across this country.

Boxing gyms have been replaced with martial arts dojos, etc--- it's just not as popular as it once was, largely because it's been taken out of the public square. And knock the journeymen all you want in the United Kingdom, but, guys like Peter Buckley were NOT bums. They could box, they could fight. They seldom ever got stopped. The ONLY reason why they lost more times than not was because they were full-time workers, and part-time boxers.

Now, some men, made losing a business because they could make more money losing than winning. Odd as that sounds. Reggie Strickland is a prime example of that. He would have ten or twenty losses in a row, but out of nowhere school some young up and coming punk with 5-0-0, 10-0-0, 20-0-0, etc records. He was far and away better than his 276 losses indicated. I'm sure some men in the UK were that way too--- Tony Booth, for example, had 71 losses when he beat 10-1 Jamie Warters. Looks can be deceiving. So are records.

When things like that happen you come away with two conclusions:

1) The con was on; the losing record guy was better than anyone thought

2) The prospect was spoonfed wins and met the wrong "hand picked dead man"

Let's focus on the latter for a second. The best example of that has got to be when 4-3-0 Shawn McLean knocked out 38-0-0 Faruq Saleem, a man whose entire career was padded with wins over guys who had no chance of winning. There's an axiom in boxing, "Show me a man with an undefeated record and I'll show you a man who hasn't fought anybody," and 99/100 that is true. Unfortunately, these days, since the over regulation of boxing in the early 2000's the "0" has been so pushed and so pressed that the moment a guy loses he's considered damaged goods forever.

I am pretty much convinced that most of these undefeated guys today would probably of gotten derailed by someone like Bert Cooper back in the day, because their mettle has never truly been tested. Guys like Bert Cooper were a vital part of the business, and you can thank Jesus Christ Almighty God everyday that you have a large journeyman class in the United Kingdom because THAT is largely the reason why British boxing is ahead of curve because America abandoned this special class of people who made men into better men.

like i mentioned earlier its not that they are lacking in skills but they cant try and win or get knocked out. So many uk prospects fights aload of these that they dont learn much. They dont experience someone coming after them, i just wish our journeymen tried harder and promoters didn't punish the ones who won by not putting them in fight nomore