The Cincinatti Cobra...

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 19 Jul 2006, 10:50

I've also seen variations on Charles' nickname reported as being The Cincinatti Flash and The Cincinatti Razor. Has anyone else heard or seen this?

dalek · Post by **dalek** » 19 Jul 2006, 11:00

my dad always referred to charles as the cincinatti flash.i always thought that was his nickname.

Imira · Post by **Imira** » 19 Jul 2006, 12:12

As far as I can tell, Charles started his career as "The Cincinnatti Flash" and became the "Cobra" later on in his light heavyweight years.

Never heard of any "Razor".

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 19 Jul 2006, 13:47

how bout ezzard the gizzard

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 19 Jul 2006, 13:59

Hid close friends called him Snooks.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 19 Jul 2006, 14:52

I call him that guy that gave Moore a bad rep.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 19 Jul 2006, 15:17

..well..let's do a summation...early on..."the flash".....but "cincinnati cobra" is the later one and it stuck......he was "snooks" to all of his freinds...and "the gizzard" was one put on him when he was the heavyweight and cruelly and ignorantly considered a mediocre, dull fighter. i don't recall which writer put this one on him..and it was picked up by a few others, but not used prolifically.

i wish i could tell you how great he'd feel at getting the recognition he deserved....finally....after so much criticism by the yahoos who never saw him in his prime as a light heavy....and didn't understand what he was doing so well as a heavy.

he made an analogy sometimes between himself and stephan foster....whom he had read about as one derided or ignored in his day but treated so well by history.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 19 Jul 2006, 15:31

Jaclem.

Which fighters did Charles admire?

Also from what I've read Charles was a quiet guy who liked to read and was passionate about music is this correct? If so any particular writers and musicians etc?

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 19 Jul 2006, 15:34

Jaclem wrote:
he made an analogy sometimes between himself and stephan foster....whom he had read about as one derided or ignored in his day but treated so well by history.

I saw Walcott interviewed years ago

and wrote down what he said :

MARCIANO--toughest, hit the hardest

LOUIS---best finisher of a hurt fighter

CHARLES---The most under-rated.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 20 Jul 2006, 01:40

....when i talked to ezz (my nickname for him) about other fighters..which was hard to get him to do....if it was anyone he fought he'd just say "yeah..he was pretty good" and leave it at that. he agreed with me in thinking eddie machen was the most promising prospect for a while. he said marciano was not the hardest hitter he ever faced...but was the strongest it was well known that joe louis was his early idol, and he did talk about the "tough...tough left jab" louis still had, even when the bomber was past his prime, as he was in their fight together. and though louis did lose by a wide margin, he did bust ezz's face up...mostly his eye..which was closed during much of the fight... pretty good with that jab alone. louis was fighting with one eye practically closed too....not surprising for two great left jabbers.

music? he loved jazz...sat in and played bass with house groups. we just talked a bit about jazz in general...when he was on my radio show when i was on a jazz station so the conversation came easily. i don't recall any particular musician mentioned, except george russell...who became better known for his jazz arranging and composing, but was a pianist in a good jazz club in cincinnati during ezz's years there. he also liked lucky thompson...a great tenor sax player who died recently...and who traveled a lot with archie moore.

he also played cello.....but did that mostly at home or on private groups,as he seemed to think people might feel it was a "sissy" instrument.

yeah...he was widely read, but i don't recall any book or writer discussions with him.

he was stationed in italy during the war and spoke italian fluently..and spanish almost as well... they're similar and he studied it in high school...and was a little conversant in french. jazz great sonny stitt spoke french and they used to challenge each other.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 20 Jul 2006, 02:07

very interesting point about eddie machen. how charles thought highly of him.

* marciano must be very strong if charles considered him the strongest. charles fought huge powerful 210lb guys like nino valdes yet still called marciano the strongest.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 20 Jul 2006, 02:41

he also played cello.....but did that mostly at home or on private groups,as he seemed to think people might feel it was a "sissy" instrument.

AMAZING

he was stationed in italy during the war and spoke italian fluently..and spanish almost as well... they're similar and he studied it in high school...and was a little conversant in french. jazz great sonny stitt spoke french and they used to challenge each other.

I HAVE NEVER SEEN HIM GIVEN CREDIT FOR THIS.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 20 Jul 2006, 02:49

Jaclem wrote:....

he did talk about the "tough...tough left jab" louis still had, even when the bomber was past his prime, as he was in their fight together. and though louis did lose by a wide margin, he did bust ezz's face up...mostly his eye..which was closed during much of the fight... pretty good with that jab alone. louis was fighting with one eye practically closed too....not surprising for two great left jabbers.

A TOTALLY washed up Louis closed one of Marciano's eyes

using nothing but a left jab.

(He had lost his ability to throw his right hand or left hook by that time).

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 20 Jul 2006, 04:48

Jaclem

Many thanks for these pearls.

Ezzard was a real renaissance man by the sounds of it. Fluent in Italian, good Spanish and French...and a musician to boot...

The more I read and hear about him the more I admore the man. It also sounds like a fantastic era to have lived through.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 20 Jul 2006, 04:50

I think possibly the "razor" may have come about after the Marciano II fight... I may have read it in a report. Or mayeb I just dreamed up the whole thing.

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 20 Jul 2006, 19:31

The fact that he knew Italian, French and Spanish is very AMAZING TO ME. This take the whole cliches and myths that boxers are nothing but ignorant beings, specially the ones from the 40s, 50s and 60s.

I also heard from an old folk in Cincinnati that he was a quite man with the ladies. He was a ladies' man, a jiggolo and a playboy like the greats Carlos Monzon, Joe Louis and Sugar Ray Robinson

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 20 Jul 2006, 19:45

granberry wrote:
Jaclem wrote:....

he did talk about the "tough...tough left jab" louis still had, even when the bomber was past his prime, as he was in their fight together. and though louis did lose by a wide margin, he did bust ezz's face up...mostly his eye..which was closed during much of the fight... pretty good with that jab alone. louis was fighting with one eye practically closed too....not surprising for two great left jabbers.
A TOTALLY washed up Louis closed one of Marciano's eyes

using nothing but a left jab.

(He had lost his ability to throw his right hand or left hook by that time).

he had lost his ability to throw his left hook??? HOGWASH! have u seen the lee savold fight? savold was the BBC champion, very good chin, and # 2 contender and louis knocked him out with 1 left hook!!!!

as for his right hand have u ever seen the omelio agramonte II fight? louis floored and nearly knocked out the very fast cutie # 8 ranked agramonte with one right hand! also louis hurt savold badly with the right hand which setup the left hook KO!

i disagree that louis was totally washed up. louis was the # 1 contender coming off 8 dominant victories in a row when he fought marciano. louis was still a very dangerous fighter when he fought marciano. he had the best jab in boxing, very good boxing skills, still had power left(especially with left hook), lots of experience and ring smarts, good size 6'2 215lb.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 23 Jul 2006, 14:29

bump for granberry

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 23 Jul 2006, 14:37

The only effective punch old, tired, 25 pounds overweight Joe Louis had when he fought Marciano was his left jab.

I have seen the film.

Apparently you lack the ability to comprehend the difference between Maricano

and Savold or Agromente.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 23 Jul 2006, 15:08

granberry wrote:The only effective punch old, tired, 25 pounds overweight Joe Louis had when he fought Marciano was his left jab.

I have seen the film.

Apparently you lack the ability to comprehend the difference between Maricano

and Savold or Agromente.

i just think ur underating 1950s louis. he had a lot more going for him than just the jab! he still had a powerful left hook and was heavy handed in both fists. he was the # 1 contender of the world and a dangerous legite contender when he fought marciano. 1950s louis was a big man with skills.

LOUIS ALSO KNOCKED OUT NINO VALDES IN AN EXHIBITIO FIGHT. valdes a top contender during marcianos era.

savold was the BBC champion # 2 contender, louis knocked him out with 1 punch! thats right the durable savold out WITH ONE LEFT HOOK. dont tell me louis still couldnt hit!

agramonte was a flashy tricky very cute boxer. a lot of speed and skills. he was a lot like walcott in that regard, he even did the walcott shuffle on a few occasions. agramonte was # 7 in the world when louis beat him, and i doubt u see agramonte on film.

25 pounds overweight Joe Louis

this is HILARIOUS! louis was 215lb, so by saying he was 25lb overweight that means ur saying joe louis best weight was 190lb! forgive me but im pretty sure louis never fought at 190lb

louis was not overweight, he naturally filled out to 215lb. louis was still very muscular 215lb when he fought marciano. didnt look fat to me.

remember even in louis prime 1942 louis weighed 206-207lb vs simon and b baer. thats only 7lb less.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 26 Jul 2006, 10:07

Yes Brockton.

Joe Louis was terrific when he fought Marciano.

Louis never looked better.

And the Atlantic Ocean is made out of grapefruit juice.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 26 Jul 2006, 10:30

granberry wrote:Yes Brockton.

Joe Louis was terrific when he fought Marciano.

Louis never looked better.

And the Atlantic Ocean is made out of grapefruit juice.

Btw, Louis came in around 200 during his prime. His weight against Marciano was indeed the highest he had ever carried into the ring.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 26 Jul 2006, 18:07

granberry wrote:Yes Brockton.

Joe Louis was terrific when he fought Marciano.

Louis never looked better.

And the Atlantic Ocean is made out of grapefruit juice.

spoken like a true idiot. im guessing from the sarcasm in this post that u realized u were over ur head in this debate and that ur wisely getting out before u get embarrased.

dont worry pundit was over his head too in the godfrey-tunney debate. i gave pundit a huge list of major sources descring godfrey and pundit shruffed off the sources like they didnt mean anything. it was really a feeble attempt to get out of refuting my post. he has yet to come up with a source backing up his points.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 26 Jul 2006, 18:11

pundit wrote:
granberry wrote:Yes Brockton.

Joe Louis was terrific when he fought Marciano.

Louis never looked better.

And the Atlantic Ocean is made out of grapefruit juice.

Btw, Louis came in around 200 during his prime. His weight against Marciano was indeed the highest he had ever carried into the ring.

his weight was the highest? THATS WRONG

louis weighed 218lb vs charles

louis weighed 216lb vs brion

in 1942 27 year old PRIME louis weighed 206lb and 207lb vs buddy baer and abe simon. louis fought marciano weighing 214lb. thats only 7lb over his prime weight. now judging from the fact louis was 9 years older when he fought marciano and that people tend to fill out more when they get in there 30s, its physically realistic that louis came into the ring against marciano weighing 214lb. it was not fat, it was natural weight. take a look at joe louis body, he was very muscular 214lb when he fought rocky. louis was defintley not overweight.

evndrbsn · Post by **evndrbsn** » 26 Jul 2006, 18:21

Happy Belated Birthday to "The Cincinatti Cobra" Ezzard Charles! Seems we all missed it. He would have turned 85 on July 7th. Rest in peace, Champ! He'd be proud of how well his image has been preserved here on BoxRec!