BoxRec's Forum HW Top 15 ranking - Joyce vs Takam

[Wales]

The only relevant fights in the HW division are Fury Wilder AJ. The rest is a scramble for their scraps

[gregregegg]

Since Joyce’s career started his best wins are DDD, takem, and Jennings. They are solid wins and two were by stoppage.

Since Joyce turned pro Parker has beat Fa unconvincingly and chisora less convincingly….

I’m Parker’s only fan, but the only way I could have him above Joyce right now is to criminally under rate DDD.

[Wales]

Joyce only decent win is Dubois
It’s the only fight he’s gone into as the underdog / the rest have been made for him to win

[margaret thatcher]

and parker has never won a fight as underdog

[candyslim]

The only relevant fights in the HW division are Fury Wilder AJ. The rest is a scramble for their scraps

I don't agree with that at all. I'm not convinced that Wilder would beat Whyte, Joyce, Ruiz, Usyk, Hrgovic ... so you might as well claim the only relevant fight in the division is AJ v Fury.

I don't accept that either although it is the most relevant by a distance.

[gregregegg]

Usyk is more relevant than wilder right now I think.

[Wales]

I see AJ Fury and Wilder in the top bracket then the rest below

Commercially and as far as “sorting shit out” goes it’s between these three. Chances are, and if things go the way we expect, the only relevant fight is Fury against AJ. If Fury beats Wilder and AJ beats Usyk there is zero interest in AJ v Joyce and Fury v Hrgovic. It will all be about AJ V Fury as the two top dogs.

Playing devils advocate- Wilder is only one punch away from throwing making that a three way shoot out.

Are we honestly saying that the HW division of this era hasn’t reached a point where it’s between three fighters to be the man of this era. Granted one of those three has some work to do to get back into the mix. But still.

This era has reached a point where one of two (maybe three) can be the #1

The rest are fighting for the scraps that come after

[Wales]

If Fury wins and AJ wins

The rest are picking up the scraps fighting Usyk and wilder

When Fury and AJ fight best of the rest will get a shot at the winner and the others negotiate to fight the loser

[candyslim]

I understand what you are saying but if Fury and Joshua get past their next opponent and then one conclusively batters the other, are we then saying there are no relevant fights at heavyweight?

Should we all pack up and go home?

It's happened many many times in history that there has been a dominant champion who looks unbeatable but there are always relevant fights even if it's just to establish who ranks second or third.

[Wales]

No.

I think if they both win they won’t fight until earliest July 2022. Be surprised if there isn’t a rematch after that around December 2022. So essentially the battle for #1 is tied up until mid 2023 .

Are there other relevant fights - no, not in the sense anyone is laying a claim to be too dog. It will be solely between them.

Are there good fights - yes . But I think fighters will be very risk averse in the hope they’ll be next in line mid 2023

If Fury beats AJ I think he’ll walk away

Don’t think AJ will if he wins

[Wales]

It's happened many many times in history that there has been a dominant champion who looks unbeatable but there are always relevant fights even if it's just to establish who ranks second or third.

Fights take so long to make now.

If Fury and AJ win their next fights, a fight between them will take an absolute age to make .

Problem is nowadays everyone wants to get their beak wet and a nice slice of the pie .

Arguing over percentages of merchandise and slushie sales.

Fury AJ - 50/50 even split straight down middle - easy. But not the case

[gregregegg]

I see AJ Fury and Wilder in the top bracket then the rest below

Commercially and as far as “sorting shit out” goes it’s between these three. Chances are, and if things go the way we expect, the only relevant fight is Fury against AJ. If Fury beats Wilder and AJ beats Usyk there is zero interest in AJ v Joyce and Fury v Hrgovic. It will all be about AJ V Fury as the two top dogs.

Playing devils advocate- Wilder is only one punch away from throwing making that a three way shoot out.

Are we honestly saying that the HW division of this era hasn’t reached a point where it’s between three fighters to be the man of this era. Granted one of those three has some work to do to get back into the mix. But still.

This era has reached a point where one of two (maybe three) can be the #1

The rest are fighting for the scraps that come after

What puts wilder in that category for you? IF he stops fury then sure we can have him there. but as of right now what has he done to be in the top tier? He should of lost to fury first fight (vs a very sub par fury), got battered the second fight. befor that his resume is trash unless you belive King kong is a beast in which case, enjoy the coolaid.

[Wales]

Wilder went into Fury 2 as WBC champion and bookmakers favourite with a record of 42-0-1 with 41KOs

Before Fury 1 it was widely accepted him and AJ should contest for the #1 HW

Fury battered him, but don’t forget Fury was a hair away from being KOd in their first fight

Personally I still have 3 guys a level above the rest

If Fury beats Wilder then only two remain in that bracket

[aicheligad]

The only relevant fights in the HW division are Fury Wilder AJ. The rest is a scramble for their scraps

Don't underestimate Usyk. Hopefully he will prove himself at HW soon

[Wales]

The only relevant fights in the HW division are Fury Wilder AJ. The rest is a scramble for their scraps

Don't underestimate Usyk. Hopefully he will prove himself at HW soon

Agreed - if AJ doesn’t hurt him, then finish him

Tricky nights work

Usyk is decent - but certainly not an elite HW . If he were to beat AJ and Fury it’d say more about them than him

[candyslim]

No.

I think if they both win they won’t fight until earliest July 2022. Be surprised if there isn’t a rematch after that around December 2022. So essentially the battle for #1 is tied up until mid 2023 .

Are there other relevant fights - no, not in the sense anyone is laying a claim to be too dog. It will be solely between them.

Are there good fights - yes . But I think fighters will be very risk averse in the hope they’ll be next in line mid 2023

If Fury beats AJ I think he’ll walk away

Don’t think AJ will if he wins

If relevant is limited to laying a claim to be top dog, then the relevant fight is Fury v AJ. Wilder and Usyk are one step removed, and Whyte, Joyce etc two steps or more.

That's how I see it based on my understanding of your definition of "relevant" .

I agree with you about Fury walking away but Joshua carrying on as undisputed.

It's happened many many times in history that there has been a dominant champion who looks unbeatable but there are always relevant fights even if it's just to establish who ranks second or third.

Fights take so long to make now.

If Fury and AJ win their next fights, a fight between them will take an absolute age to make .

Problem is nowadays everyone wants to get their beak wet and a nice slice of the pie .

Arguing over percentages of merchandise and slushie sales.

Fury AJ - 50/50 even split straight down middle - easy. But not the case

Agreed. I think if Joshua were to take the position that as holder of 75% of the belts he should get the lion's share, then there would be no chance of ever seeing Fury v Joshua even if they were to keep winning.

I applaud AJ for his attitude in accepting to take 50/50 in order to make the fight happen. It shows who has the ambition to unify all the belts. It wasn't any fault of Joshua's that it all went tits-up

[Wales]

No - you’re right and let’s have it right

In reality Joshua is 65-70% of the draw

But FFS just fight at 50-50 and crack on

[Wales]

Amazes me how Joyce is suddenly in the mix

He’s 36 and not very good at all folks …. Chisora material

[oogiebe]

Amazes me how Joyce is suddenly in the mix

He’s 36 and not very good at all folks …. Chisora material

Maybe fans are just desperate to have 'someone else' in the mix. JJ is tough and durable, but still untested against the best of the division.

[candyslim]

Joyce has always been perceived as slow and awkward which has led to him being persistently underrated. He is very strong with decent fundamentals. I'm sure Daniel Dubois could tell you all about his jab and his power even if he is not too difficult to hit.

The problem is not that you can't hit him, rather that you can't discourage him. He has one of the best chins in the division and an engine to match. He isn't a prodigious one-shot knockout artist but he hits hard enough to hurt you and throws a lot of punches.

You may find him easy to outbox but the difficulty is in continuing to do so round after round, all the while he's walking you down, throwing punches in volume and putting you under constant pressure. Usyk managed it quite easily over five rounds but it might be interesting to see if he could replicate the feat over ten or twelve rounds.

He's into his mid-thirties now and there will come a time in the not too distant future when his impressive stamina starts to become less impressive. Eventuality he will suffer a defeat in which case someone is bound to say "I always said he was crap" but at this moment I think the only boxer it the world who has a relatively easy night against Joe Joyce is Tyson Fury. Even Joshua would be well advised to employ the safety first tactics that served him so well in the Ruiz rematch, and my advice to Wilder in the extremely unlikely event that he was considering a fight against Joyce would be simply "Don't".

[Ruthless-RKO]

Question.

IF Usyk beats Joshua.

Does he go 2nd or can he take 1??

[margaret thatcher]

Amazes me how Joyce is suddenly in the mix

He’s 36 and not very good at all folks …. Chisora material

Maybe fans are just desperate to have 'someone else' in the mix. JJ is tough and durable, but still untested against the best of the division.

its not desperation...hes earned being in the mix by in the last year or 2 beating dub (who had loads of hype and was favoured), takam, and jennings.. defo top 10 now. plus he was olympic medalist + top am before that.....

comparing it to what the rest of the division has been doing lately, which is pretty much nothing, and there you have the attention

[Wales]

Fair point mate

Whatever anyone thinks of Joyce he’s active and “doing it”

[gregregegg]

Question.

IF Usyk beats Joshua.

Does he go 2nd or can he take 1??

Interesting question, I have fury as number one like most people, although I’m still not entirely sure why… I don’t/never rated wilder as great, and fury only realy has wilder, kilt and chis (with a retirement and bender in the middle). Think it’s just the eye test for me.

I didn’t move Ruiz to one when he beat AJ because he got beat up and dropped befor winging in a golden shot. Still give it credit, but even though it’s a ko win, it’s a close win.

For usyk to jump to one it would have to be a clear win with basicaly no damage taken. That can be over the distance with a 117+ card (and the lost rounds not being dominant), or if usyk stops him without ever being remotely in trouble or hurt at any point. Having an “easy fight” with AJ would be better than anything fury has ever done so I would have to consider usyk for number 1 spot.

[margaret thatcher]

no fury still #1 for me for the time being, but he's pushing it with the inactivity