uk 'professional amateurs'

[margaret thatcher]

i notice the age of the uk amateurs is getting up there, many in late 20s or even 30s. 'younger' members of the team already mid 20s

the uk amateur system has really developed over the last decade, but it seems to also correspond with a rise in these professional amateur types who spend extra long in the ams, maybe because it pays steady and better than before?

is that a good thing, bad thing, or neutral for how well they'll do in the pros?

[dookus]

i notice the age of the uk amateurs is getting up there, many in late 20s or even 30s. 'younger' members of the team already mid 20s

the uk amateur system has really developed over the last decade, but it seems to also correspond with a rise in these professional amateur types who spend extra long in the ams, maybe because it pays steady and better than before?

is that a good thing, bad thing, or neutral for how well they'll do in the pros?

Overall I think a good thing. They face a higher level of skill compared with early pro opponents, and now the scoring system for amateurs (and no headguards) makes it a closer approximation of the pros.

That said, a) it's still no substitute for a proper pro education, and b) even very successful amateurs sometimes just don't have what a pro champion does and never will. There's a whole other level of toughness to fighting 12 rounds with smal gloves.

[DrDuke]

Russian Zamkovoy is a true professional amateur. 34 year old, competing in the 3rd Olympics (Bronze in 2012, won Errol Spence, lost to Serik Sapiyev).

[peter barlow]

Given how inactive most pros are it doesn't leave them much time to achieve anything turning over.

[gregregegg]

I Hate "amateure sport" that is not amateure. pick a lane. I feel team GB have been doing it for years, your amateur on paper yet somehow live a decent lifestyle, Eat well, train in world class facilitys, have a masseuse, phisio, sports psyc, ect without ever going to work a real job... not fair when your compeating against a true amateur from a poor country that has to lay bricks between bouts.

Olympics should have zero amature criteria in my opinion, it should be an under 23s event instead. still 3 rounds big gloves though, only way to do tournement style boxing.

[Dioufy]

I agree. It’s a weird misnomer.
Amateurs these days get paid quite well and probably set themselves up financially just by fighting in the amateurs… especially in the UK.
I would be in favour of having a age cut off of 25.
It’s getting closer to professional boxing anyways so once you hit 25 then get your ass in those 2 ounce lighter gloves and get your ass lubed for Warren/Hearn ect.
I find it a little depressing to see a 34 year old amateur.

[tonyevs]

Tony Jefferies gave his opinion on being amateur v pro.
He identified the advantages of having great training facilities available; dieticians; nutritionists; physios; kit; decent regular wage; free travel & accomodation to fights ... Plus all the advantages you get having Team GB as an employer with their financial resources.

Weighed against when your pro, when for most it all comes out of your pocket.

It's a big gamble Turing pro even for very successful amateur boxers. If your a super heavy, and younger than 25 I guess you get good backing if you sign over ... If you knocking 30 then I guess time to recuperate money is riskier for backers.

I been following a bit of boxing at Olympics. Lauren Price is doing well as expected; I'd not advise her turning pro though ... Staying a professional boxer would be a wise move for sure.

[tonyevs]

*A quick Google on what Team GB Elite athletes earn - those expected to win medals at top tournaments - identifies that the 'package' around them such as those identified above comes to between £38-60k depending on sport; they also receive around £30k direct funding a year (wage) .. and of course whatever sponsors they have.

It's pretty good I'd say, and if your managed well it allows time to feather your nest to find a nice paying PR role in the amateur game too for when you retire.
Turning pro and not achieving much won't sell yourself much .. ask Tony Jeffers, Nicola Adams, Fred Evans, Anthony Ogogo ..

[margaret thatcher]

ya not a bad earning at all as an am

obviously for certain type of fighters (eg super heavyweights) the pros usually make more sense, and they usually peak later anyway. but not so much for , let's say, 26 year old lightweights who aren't phenoms......

the thing is, as an amateur you will never be rich, as a pro it's a possibility, even if slim...........some just cant resist shooting for that

[golden_labrador]

less brain damage, a chance of being on reality tv if going pro doesn't work out, deal with less sketchy characters. and that money/perks package sounds v good, especially in these uncertain times...

but if they do switch to pro, their journey to a big fight is steeper and quicker. how do am boxers get used to being hit by lighter gloves? gradually in sparring?

[Wales]

i notice the age of the uk amateurs is getting up there, many in late 20s or even 30s. 'younger' members of the team already mid 20s

the uk amateur system has really developed over the last decade, but it seems to also correspond with a rise in these professional amateur types who spend extra long in the ams, maybe because it pays steady and better than before?

is that a good thing, bad thing, or neutral for how well they'll do in the pros?

Overall I think a good thing. They face a higher level of skill compared with early pro opponents, and now the scoring system for amateurs (and no headguards) makes it a closer approximation of the pros.

That said, a) it's still no substitute for a proper pro education, and b) even very successful amateurs sometimes just don't have what a pro champion does and never will. There's a whole other level of toughness to fighting 12 rounds with smal gloves.

a - whats this “pro education” ?
I think the education is learning that you only get paid for the tickets you sell and promoters will absolutely throw you under the bus.
I don’t think elite amateurs learn a thing in their first 10 pro fights against journeymen. If anything it’s probably detrimental

b) that “thing” has multiple layers. Elite Amateur boxers have been hit back and been made to fight / survive. No matter if you’ve been an Olympic champion or picked from the mean streets of Brooklyn- nobody can ever say for certain that a fighter will dig deep and go that extra mile.

Look at Vitali v Byrd - let’s have it right he quit . He didn’t have the balls to get up and have a go one handed. Danny Williams the opposite.

Mike Tyson - dropped his arse against Evander and looked for a way out . Because he couldn’t handle being beat

[dookus]

i notice the age of the uk amateurs is getting up there, many in late 20s or even 30s. 'younger' members of the team already mid 20s

the uk amateur system has really developed over the last decade, but it seems to also correspond with a rise in these professional amateur types who spend extra long in the ams, maybe because it pays steady and better than before?

is that a good thing, bad thing, or neutral for how well they'll do in the pros?

Overall I think a good thing. They face a higher level of skill compared with early pro opponents, and now the scoring system for amateurs (and no headguards) makes it a closer approximation of the pros.

That said, a) it's still no substitute for a proper pro education, and b) even very successful amateurs sometimes just don't have what a pro champion does and never will. There's a whole other level of toughness to fighting 12 rounds with smal gloves.

a - whats this “pro education” ?
I think the education is learning that you only get paid for the tickets you sell and promoters will absolutely throw you under the bus.
I don’t think elite amateurs learn a thing in their first 10 pro fights against journeymen. If anything it’s probably detrimental

b) that “thing” has multiple layers. Elite Amateur boxers have been hit back and been made to fight / survive. No matter if you’ve been an Olympic champion or picked from the mean streets of Brooklyn- nobody can ever say for certain that a fighter will dig deep and go that extra mile.

Look at Vitali v Byrd - let’s have it right he quit . He didn’t have the balls to get up and have a go one handed. Danny Williams the opposite.

Mike Tyson - dropped his arse against Evander and looked for a way out . Because he couldn’t handle being beat

a) No, because that's not an education. I'm talking about the education Lomachenko (one of the greatest amateurs of all time) could have done with when he lost to a man levels below him skills-wise in Salido. They're different games.

b) So I think we agree?

[Wales]

a) yeah - fair one .
b) yes sir

[coneye]

If countries want to medal in the olympics its just a fact that there by and large going to have to come up with a system that pays the athletes , just facts of life , is it fair no its not like someone said , it really means you have profesinal boxers competing with boxers , who had to sell a couple of hundred chook raffles to get there and take a job selling ice cream to get home .

But what can you do , the Cubans for example have been pro's for years ,make the Cuban boxing team is like being a movie star over there , you have to adapt the same aproach or just settle for a lucky bronze occasionaly ,, its not fair but lifes not fair .
The good side is the likes of Hearn and Warren if they want to entice a talent to turn over there gonna have to come up with more than buying some kids old man a season ticket to old trafford , and the top ameteurs have more advice there for them ...

I have enjoyed a lot of the boxing this time rnd , wheres in the recent past i would'nt watch it , years ago it was all designed , style and scoring to suit the cubans ,it all changed through politics where now its going a bit more pro like ,, its made for some good bouts , has opposed to a 6 foot featherweight cuban , landing one jab and running for 3 rnds safe he was up on the score card .

[maverick23]

ya not a bad earning at all as an am

obviously for certain type of fighters (eg super heavyweights) the pros usually make more sense, and they usually peak later anyway. but not so much for , let's say, 26 year old lightweights who aren't phenoms......

the thing is, as an amateur you will never be rich, as a pro it's a possibility, even if slim...........some just cant resist shooting for that

There will also only be a very small number of amateurs earning those kind of amounts (£40k-£60k). A good young prospect comes and takes your spot in the team and then you’re looking to turn pro on the back foot.

Clearly £60k is a good wage but it’s not life changing whilst the opportunity to earn 6 figures, or more on some cases, as a pro will be too difficult to turn down.

[peter barlow]

It's become a competition between a handful of well funded countries. The Uzbeks, Azerbaijanis, Kazakhs, Russians, GB and Cubans.

[dookus]

a) yeah - fair one .
b) yes sir

[tonyevs]

ya not a bad earning at all as an am

obviously for certain type of fighters (eg super heavyweights) the pros usually make more sense, and they usually peak later anyway. but not so much for , let's say, 26 year old lightweights who aren't phenoms......

the thing is, as an amateur you will never be rich, as a pro it's a possibility, even if slim...........some just cant resist shooting for that

There will also only be a very small number of amateurs earning those kind of amounts (£40k-£60k). A good young prospect comes and takes your spot in the team and then you’re looking to turn pro on the back foot.

Clearly £60k is a good wage but it’s not life changing whilst the opportunity to earn 6 figures, or more on some cases, as a pro will be too difficult to turn down.

The £38-60k is costs of the whole training package; it's roughly £30k a year direct/personal money for those expected to podium at high profile tournaments .. Olympics/world's/commonwealth.

Agreed - the £30k a year is not a great wage .. basically what your average qualified and experienced nurse earns. But when added to the training package .. it's probably better than a lot of British title belt holders are earning.

Add in sponsors - free car, after dinner/corporate talks .. it can add up pretty well.

Is Anthony Joshua still using Team GB facilities FOC?
I doubt very much any other professionals had that luxury.

[maverick23]

ya not a bad earning at all as an am

obviously for certain type of fighters (eg super heavyweights) the pros usually make more sense, and they usually peak later anyway. but not so much for , let's say, 26 year old lightweights who aren't phenoms......

the thing is, as an amateur you will never be rich, as a pro it's a possibility, even if slim...........some just cant resist shooting for that

There will also only be a very small number of amateurs earning those kind of amounts (£40k-£60k). A good young prospect comes and takes your spot in the team and then you’re looking to turn pro on the back foot.

Clearly £60k is a good wage but it’s not life changing whilst the opportunity to earn 6 figures, or more on some cases, as a pro will be too difficult to turn down.

The £38-60k is costs of the whole training package; it's roughly £30k a year direct/personal money for those expected to podium at high profile tournaments .. Olympics/world's/commonwealth.

Agreed - the £30k a year is not a great wage .. basically what your average qualified and experienced nurse earns. But when added to the training package .. it's probably better than a lot of British title belt holders are earning.

Add in sponsors - free car, after dinner/corporate talks .. it can add up pretty well.

Is Anthony Joshua still using Team GB facilities FOC?
I doubt very much any other professionals had that luxury.

Yeah - I assume they’ll also have their accommodation taken care of and potentially some of their food too which could save a good chunk.

I didn’t realise they got a free car. How does that work? Also not too sure many will do corporate talks/after dinner bits.

[tonyevs]

Free car by a sponsor I meant sorry.

On the sponsoring bit - Friend of mine was sponsoring a local kid. The kid was part of the Team GB development squad or whatever they call it, but I think they were close to offing him; so he turned pro with a bit of hype and adopted a USA type persona ... fake tan/big crucifix/ bigger ego ... bit cringe; but hype is hype eh!
So when he turned pro my mate was paying the lease car for him, and paying him more a week than he was paying most of the guys working on his factory floor.
Unfortunately, when the kid lost his first pro fight - he also lost his best sponsor ...

[mickey1975]

The wage is tax free. Josh Taylor had to pay most of his back when he turned pro.