O'Neil Bell v David Haye who wins ?

Evander · Post by **Evander** » 22 Jul 2006, 02:35

I have not seen much of Haye but have seen Bell a couple of times.
Obviously there are people in a better postion to give us the heads up on David Haye?

Does he have the beating of O'Neil Bell ?

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 22 Jul 2006, 05:48

I'd have to favour Bell, better workrate, better stamina, better chin.

However, Haye probably has advantages in Speed and Power so it wouldn't be a huge shock if he wins.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 22 Jul 2006, 06:51

If haye totally reduces the contact level and turns it into a stinker, then he could win. bell is a very crude boxer and with the ten pounds extra weight he put on when the cruiser limit went up, he's so much slower than he was and is horribly off balance when moving forward.

boxerrob2005 · Post by **boxerrob2005** » 22 Jul 2006, 07:35

There is no way haye wins this fight. O'Neill Bell took everything Mormeck chucked at him and came back to knock him out late on. If Haye tries that tactic the same will happen. If he fights the way he did last night Bell will be all over him and stop him early. Easy win for Bell, and didnt haye fight like audley harrison last nite. He is scared to get hit and when in a tough fight i dont think he will have the heart.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 22 Jul 2006, 08:02

It seems odd Boxerrob, but I do have to say Haye looked a gunshy fighter last night and also to a lesser extent vs Lasse Johnson.

Perhaps the Carl Thompson fight has effected his confidence more than we all thought - his fights post Thompson and pre Johnson were all blowouts that didn't really test if he is gunshy as he KO'd each fighter with just about the first clean punch he landed.

Shirow · Post by **Shirow** » 22 Jul 2006, 08:17

I've only ever seen Bell in the Mormeck fight & I was very impressed there.
He's fairly easy to hit which is the only thing in Haye's favour. How much harder does Haye punch than Mormeck? He's certainly much faster so could catch Bell unawares.

That's the only imponderable. Bell's workrate is in another galaxy as is his toughness.

Common sense says Bell takes it straight to Haye who catches him with a couple of massive shots that could well drop him too. Bell will dust himself down and carry on relentlessly punching grinding Dave down far quicker than he did Mormeck.
The ref jump in to save a distressed & hyperventilating Haye in 4.

boxerrob2005 · Post by **boxerrob2005** » 22 Jul 2006, 08:27

yeah absolutely agree with you stu. maybe the thompson fight has affected him worse than we thought. still haye has a punchers chance against anyone but i dont think he has the stomach for a war and Bell certainly has.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 22 Jul 2006, 08:35

boxerrob2005 wrote:yeah absolutely agree with you stu. maybe the thompson fight has affected him worse than we thought. still haye has a punchers chance against anyone but i dont think he has the stomach for a war and Bell certainly has.

A tad alarming that there was a slight markings on David's face after that "fight" with Abdoul.

He could be prone to face damage if the effort Abdoul did cause a slighting marking.

Also makes me think his sparring sessions are not hard - cause your face gets used to getting hit and becomes more resistant to punches.

boxerrob2005 · Post by **boxerrob2005** » 22 Jul 2006, 08:39

yeh that is very concerning. it was a mark under his right eye the same as in the johanson fight. abdoul is a light puncher and only landed 19 punches in total and 10 of them were probaly body shots. for abdoul to land 19 punches in 12 rounds is a disgrace. thats not even two punches per round.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 22 Jul 2006, 08:50

boxerrob2005 wrote:There is no way haye wins this fight. O'Neill Bell took everything Mormeck chucked at him and came back to knock him out late on. If Haye tries that tactic the same will happen. If he fights the way he did last night Bell will be all over him and stop him early. Easy win for Bell, and didnt haye fight like audley harrison last nite. He is scared to get hit and when in a tough fight i dont think he will have the heart.

not necessarily. boxing carefully and cautiously is good strategy. bell beat mormeck in a war, and you don't want to take bell into a war. dale brown outboxed him, and rothmann was boxing the shit out of him with a decent jab and a slappy right hand

abdoul's guard was what made it a cautious fight. haye didn't want to get countered it seems, or he was wary about hitting gloves. let's face it abdoul doesn't present much of a target, and haye still shut him out

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 22 Jul 2006, 13:08

Long as Haye's stamina's sorted he can KO Bell. Haye's the better skilled, faster and harder hitting fighter. Uses decent head movement too, which Mormeck lacked when he went in with his guard high against Bell.

Bell mostly has heart to stay in there.

Bell's a bit chinny too and Haye could blast him out.

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 22 Jul 2006, 13:37

We don't know if Haye's stamina is even sorted, not after that 12 round borefest. Landing on average less than 8 punches a round does not mean his stamina is OK. Bell would be way to tough for Haye to crack, took the best of Mormeck and came back stronger. Much better workrate.

Bell by decision or late KO.

I'd also tip Mormeck, Macca & Cunningham to beat Haye.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 22 Jul 2006, 14:58

Max Molyneux wrote:Long as Haye's stamina's sorted he can KO Bell. Haye's the better skilled, faster and harder hitting fighter. Uses decent head movement too, which Mormeck lacked when he went in with his guard high against Bell.

Bell mostly has heart to stay in there.

Bell's a bit chinny too and Haye could blast him out.

Max, Mormeck showed good head movement but Bell kept hitting him in the back of the head, so the head movement didn't matter. As Mormeck slipped shots, Bell sort of curved his punches round so that he could hit Mormeck in the back of the head.

Bell is vulnerbale, definitely, and it is the quick, hard surprise shots that will be his undoing. Hard counters, the type of which Haye is more than capable of producing. I don't think Haye has it in him to follow up, but he can shock Bell with brutal shots (Bell is there to be hit) if he has a good balanmce of smart boxing and the occasional burts of aggression.

Hardhitters11 · Post by **Hardhitters11** » 22 Jul 2006, 16:02

stujones wrote:
boxerrob2005 wrote:yeah absolutely agree with you stu. maybe the thompson fight has affected him worse than we thought. still haye has a punchers chance against anyone but i dont think he has the stomach for a war and Bell certainly has.
A tad alarming that there was a slight markings on David's face after that "fight" with Abdoul.

He could be prone to face damage if the effort Abdoul did cause a slighting marking.

Also makes me think his sparring sessions are not hard - cause your face gets used to getting hit and becomes more resistant to punches.

I went to watch Haye sparring with Danny Williams and it was the real thing mate he took some big punches as well as landing his own....

Hardhitters11 · Post by **Hardhitters11** » 22 Jul 2006, 16:06

I can see Haye beating Bell if he utilises his advantage's correctly IE use his reach,speed and power!

I readily admit though that Haye's fights so far have in no way prepared him for world class fights.....This could be his downfall.

HH

states · Post by **states** » 22 Jul 2006, 16:35

Is it only me who can't see this fight happening anytime soon? It was being discussed on sky last night as if it was just round the corner. But I'm sure Junior Witter and Howard Eastman would be happy to tell Haye just how easy it is to get a fight with the WBC champion, even if you are ranked number 1. Especially if that WBC champion also holds another belt.

I can see Haye having to fight some sort of eliminator yet. Or Bell fighting someone else.

Anyway, should it happen any time soon, I'd pick Bell in a heartbeat.

fatman · Post by **fatman** » 22 Jul 2006, 21:28

Hardhitters11 wrote:
stujones wrote:
boxerrob2005 wrote:yeah absolutely agree with you stu. maybe the thompson fight has affected him worse than we thought. still haye has a punchers chance against anyone but i dont think he has the stomach for a war and Bell certainly has.
A tad alarming that there was a slight markings on David's face after that "fight" with Abdoul.

He could be prone to face damage if the effort Abdoul did cause a slighting marking.

Also makes me think his sparring sessions are not hard - cause your face gets used to getting hit and becomes more resistant to punches.
I went to watch Haye sparring with Danny Williams and it was the real thing mate he took some big punches as well as landing his own....

wow, i'd have loved to have seen that... if they fought now i'd bet my house that danny could walk him down & get a one shot KO but if you say he held his own then fair play to him

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 23 Jul 2006, 06:54

viciousmaussa wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:Long as Haye's stamina's sorted he can KO Bell. Haye's the better skilled, faster and harder hitting fighter. Uses decent head movement too, which Mormeck lacked when he went in with his guard high against Bell.

Bell mostly has heart to stay in there.

Bell's a bit chinny too and Haye could blast him out.
Max, Mormeck showed good head movement but Bell kept hitting him in the back of the head, so the head movement didn't matter. As Mormeck slipped shots, Bell sort of curved his punches round so that he could hit Mormeck in the back of the head.

Bell is vulnerbale, definitely, and it is the quick, hard surprise shots that will be his undoing. Hard counters, the type of which Haye is more than capable of producing. I don't think Haye has it in him to follow up, but he can shock Bell with brutal shots (Bell is there to be hit) if he has a good balanmce of smart boxing and the occasional burts of aggression.

Aye, Haye just needs to make sure he doesn't gas. Haye hits harder than Mormeck too.

Shirow · Post by **Shirow** » 23 Jul 2006, 07:22

fatman wrote:
Hardhitters11 wrote:
stujones wrote: A tad alarming that there was a slight markings on David's face after that "fight" with Abdoul.

He could be prone to face damage if the effort Abdoul did cause a slighting marking.

Also makes me think his sparring sessions are not hard - cause your face gets used to getting hit and becomes more resistant to punches.
I went to watch Haye sparring with Danny Williams and it was the real thing mate he took some big punches as well as landing his own....

wow, i'd have loved to have seen that... if they fought now i'd bet my house that danny could walk him down & get a one shot KO but if you say he held his own then fair play to him

Danny always took it very very easy on Haye when sparring as far as i know. The only story i've heard was where Haye couldn't continue after Danny hit him with an open fist jab and was quite distraught about it afterwards.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 23 Jul 2006, 08:03

states wrote:Is it only me who can't see this fight happening anytime soon? It was being discussed on sky last night as if it was just round the corner. But I'm sure Junior Witter and Howard Eastman would be happy to tell Haye just how easy it is to get a fight with the WBC champion, even if you are ranked number 1. Especially if that WBC champion also holds another belt.

I can see Haye having to fight some sort of eliminator yet. Or Bell fighting someone else.

Anyway, should it happen any time soon, I'd pick Bell in a heartbeat.

personally i don't think haye deserves a title shot. he's still learning & to really assess where he is all we have to do is look at the two guys maloney put him in with.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 23 Jul 2006, 08:05

Haye seems to idolize Lennox Lewis and we can see Lewis creeping into his style. Much more controlled and patient, so I won't complain. However, look at how patient Lewis was in terms of seuring big fights. That's how Haye needs to be. Instead of this "I must fight Bell by the end of this year".

boxerrob2005 · Post by **boxerrob2005** » 23 Jul 2006, 11:40

Haye is not a patch on lennox lewis though. he compared his win against abdoul as being like lewis - tua. Ok Haye won every round like lewis did, but lewis had a real threat in tua's power which abdoul didnt have so lewis fought the perfect fight whereas haye didnt really have anything to fear and only limiting himself to 3 right hands a round is a fornicating insult to all the fans who paid a lot of cash to watch the fight. Haye needs to reliase who pays his wages. If england said they would only have a maximum 3 shots against there opponents people would go mad. Haye needs to get real.

kerrminator · Post by **kerrminator** » 23 Jul 2006, 21:03

Haye would politely place Bell over his knee the blister his arse, sorry guys but Haye is 1000 times better that Bell.

I'll give a sensible arguement to back it up if required but I doubt deep down anyone would give bell a chance.

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 23 Jul 2006, 21:38

kerrminator wrote:Haye would politely place Bell over his knee the blister his arse, sorry guys but Haye is 1000 times better that Bell.

I'll give a sensible arguement to back it up if required but I doubt deep down anyone would give bell a chance.

Biggest name on Haye's record is an old Carl Thompson, and he got stopped. Haye has never beaten anyone of Mormeck's stature, so what makes you think he's 1000 times better than O'Bell?

Please take us through it..

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 24 Jul 2006, 04:15

Let's remember one thing. Haye lost to Thompson because he came forward reckless, punched himself out & served himself on a platter to Thompson. You don't go in the trenches with Thompson.

Since then he has become very patient. In his last two fights he fought men who weren't easy to blow away. In both fights he was technically sharp and we can se him trying out different things. With Maloney, he's only just starting his ring education. Against Johanssen we saw Haye make the crisp start, then overcome lethargy to reassert himself. So far so good. Against Abdoul it's at least reassuring that he didn't allow his man into the fight. It was conservative, the guy wsn't exactly a physical threat, but he shut down a decent operator and picked away at him.

Last fri it might have been a bit of a sparring session. But we saw Haye try things out, the right uppercut, lead body shots and slipping Abdoul's counters simultaneously, etc etc. He also went the 12 rounds, which he has never done before.

No one needs to be pissed off that a guy who undid his career due to carelesness is boxing with care and economy. No it's not a good spectacle, but it's good career-wise.

The fact that's he's not giving his opponents anything, is a good thing. Would be fatal to make an error against Bell. If haye keeps honing himself with the Cubans, he'll be able to see anything Bell does coming, and react in the appropriate way. Technically he can outclass Bell, though Bell is tougher, better recovery etc.

It would help of course if Adam Booth wasn't near orgasm in the build up talking about Haye being the gambler who is willing to risk getting whacked out just so that he can land his own bombs.