Cruiserweight Golden Era fighters at HW prove that talking about the need for SHW or Bridgerweight categories is nonsens

[aicheligad]

Here are some HW prospects The Enlightened One will be interested in.

https://www.google.com/search?q=fatest+ ... ejftwwLauM

This guy beats Usyk, he just have to use his size!

[aicheligad]

EO, nobody expects that the average heavyweight championship fight winner (or simply champion) will be 225lbs.

Let's look at it in yet different way.

in the last 20 years (2002-2021) we had fighters, who won championship fights. Their average weights in those fights were:

Roy Jones Jr: 193 lbs
Chris Byrd: 213 lbs
David Haye: 216 lbs
Sultan Ibragimov: 220 lbs
Oleksandr Usyk: 221 lbs
Deontay Wilder: 223 lbs
Corrie Sanders: 225 lbs
Lamon Brewster: 226 lbs
Ruslan Chagaev: 228 lbs
John Ruiz: 237 lbs
Siarhei Liakhovich: 239 lbs
Oleg Maskaev: 239 lbs
Bermane Stiverne: 239 lbs
Wladimir Klitschko: 244 lbs
Anthony Joshua: 245 lbs
Joseph Parker: 246 lbs
Vitali Klitschko: 247 lbs
Charles Martin: 250 lbs
Samuel Peter: 251 lbs
Lennox Lewis: 253 lbs
Tyson Fury: 260 lbs
Andy Ruiz Jr: 268 lbs
Shannon Briggs: 268 lbs
Nikolay Valuev: 320 lbs

7 out of 24 (slighty more than 29%) were weighting 225lbs or less. If we include Brewster, who was above that limit but by a very little margin (he was 225,66 lbs), we have 8 out of 24, 1/3, 33,(3)%. Chagaev wasn't much above, too.

But what determines the Super-Heavies is also their height. Let's see at how tall these fighters are:

Roy Jones Jr: 180cm
Ruslan Chagaev: 185cm
Lamon Brewster: 188cm
John Ruiz: 188cm
Chris Byrd: 188cm
Bermane Stiverne: 188cm
Samuel Peter: 188cm
Andy Ruiz Jr: 188cm
Sultan Ibragimov: 188cm
David Haye: 191cm
Oleksandr Usyk: 191cm
Oleg Maskaev: 191cm
Corrie Sanders: 193cm
Joseph Parker: 193cm
Shannon Briggs: 193cm
Siarhei Liakhovich: 193cm
Charles Martin: 196cm
Lennox Lewis: 196cm
Anthony Joshua: 198cm
Wladimir Klitschko: 198cm
Deontay Wilder: 201cm
Vitali Klitschko: 201cm
Tyson Fury: 206cm
Nikolay Valuev: 213cm

Median: 192cm, Average: 193cm

Oleksandr Usyk is just 1cm below the median, and 2cm below average!

So, the average champion (both height and weight) of the SHW era is... Siarhei Liakhovich!

[aicheligad]

Worth of mention is that the real Super Heavies were losing to a lot smaller fighters, examples:

Nikolay Valuev lost to 217lbs/193cm David Haye and 228lbs/185cm Ruslan Chagaev (the only losses in his career)
Vitali Klitschko lost to 211lbs/188cm Chris Byrd (I know the circumstances, but still, he lost)
Wladimir Klitschko lost to 225lbs/193cm Corrie Sanders and 226lbs/188cm Lamon Brewster
Anthony Joshua lost to 221lbs/191cm Oleksandr Usyk and to a fat Ruiz, who officially is 188cm, but in reality he's ~185cm
Lennox Lewis lost to ~230lbs/~188cm Oliver McCall

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

You should go up to 235 since they could easily lose 10 lb of waterweight for a weight class

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

The best fighters have been fury, wlad, vitali, lennox so it isnt absurd to think they are so darn big and therefore bigger is better

But there is a plethora of smaller guys who have been in the top 5 hw during that time and some beat those big boys

[aicheligad]

The best fighters have been fury, wlad, vitali, lennox so it isnt absurd to think they are so darn big and therefore bigger is better

But there is a plethora of smaller guys who have been in the top 5 hw during that time and some beat those big boys

Of course, it seems that we agree. My point is that size is an advantage, but not important enough that the smaller fighters can't compete and win in this era.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Agreed. Another division isnt needed

[peter barlow]

Bridger weight was KOd last night.

Breidis should move up immediately, anyone else who could make the jump?

[aicheligad]

Bridger weight was KOd last night.

Breidis should move up immediately, anyone else who could make the jump?

Okolie, for sure. Dorticos can try but he's 35 and not that good, but maybe he can defeat someone ranked top 15-20.

CW is after it's gold era now, we have to wait for the next wave of talent there,

BTW, imagine Usyk moving to Bridger instead, who he would fight there? Rivas, Jennings, Romanov, Różański, Babić?

[gregregegg]

Bridger weight was KOd last night.

Breidis should move up immediately, anyone else who could make the jump?

Okolie, for sure. Dorticos can try but he's 35 and not that good, but maybe he can defeat someone ranked top 15-20.

CW is after it's gold era now, we have to wait for the next wave of talent there,

BTW, imagine Usyk moving to Bridger instead, who he would fight there? Rivas, Jennings, Romanov, Różański, Babić?

if breidis moves up Okolie should become a 4 belt cruiser champ. even in a weak era that would boost his stock. then he can go to heavyweigt still in his late 20s and get amoungst it (and by then he should be WBO mando by the move up rule).

If he just moves to heavy he will be avoided a bit because he is awkward. but if he is a undisputed and mando then people will line up to fight him and he can pick his path.

[peter barlow]

Bridger weight was KOd last night.

Breidis should move up immediately, anyone else who could make the jump?

Okolie, for sure. Dorticos can try but he's 35 and not that good, but maybe he can defeat someone ranked top 15-20.

CW is after it's gold era now, we have to wait for the next wave of talent there,

BTW, imagine Usyk moving to Bridger instead, who he would fight there? Rivas, Jennings, Romanov, Różański, Babić?

Breidis is 37 in January, I wonder is it too late for him

[aicheligad]

Bridger weight was KOd last night.

Breidis should move up immediately, anyone else who could make the jump?

Okolie, for sure. Dorticos can try but he's 35 and not that good, but maybe he can defeat someone ranked top 15-20.

CW is after it's gold era now, we have to wait for the next wave of talent there,

BTW, imagine Usyk moving to Bridger instead, who he would fight there? Rivas, Jennings, Romanov, Różański, Babić?

if breidis moves up Okolie should become a 4 belt cruiser champ. even in a weak era that would boost his stock. then he can go to heavyweigt still in his late 20s and get amoungst it (and by then he should be WBO mando by the move up rule).

If he just moves to heavy he will be avoided a bit because he is awkward. but if he is a undisputed and mando then people will line up to fight him and he can pick his path.

Makabu I think is on decline already, Dorticos is done I guess, the toughest opponents of the rest would be Michał Cieślak imo, but Okolie would be favourite, so yeah, Okolie can get all the belts. You are right, of course, he shouldn't immediately move to HW.

[aicheligad]

Bridger weight was KOd last night.

Breidis should move up immediately, anyone else who could make the jump?

Okolie, for sure. Dorticos can try but he's 35 and not that good, but maybe he can defeat someone ranked top 15-20.

CW is after it's gold era now, we have to wait for the next wave of talent there,

BTW, imagine Usyk moving to Bridger instead, who he would fight there? Rivas, Jennings, Romanov, Różański, Babić?

Breidis is 37 in January, I wonder is it too late for him

He is past his prime, had some injuries, but he still can beat some top 10-15 HW's. I don't expect more from him at this point. He should move just now but instead, he choose to fight Artur Mann

[peter barlow]

Okolie, for sure. Dorticos can try but he's 35 and not that good, but maybe he can defeat someone ranked top 15-20.

CW is after it's gold era now, we have to wait for the next wave of talent there,

BTW, imagine Usyk moving to Bridger instead, who he would fight there? Rivas, Jennings, Romanov, Różański, Babić?

Breidis is 37 in January, I wonder is it too late for him

He is past his prime, had some injuries, but he still can beat some top 10-15 HW's. I don't expect more from him at this point. He should move just now but instead, he choose to fight Artur Mann

Yep it's a garbage fight. Sauerland should make Hrgovic Vs Breidis. Breidis is nearing the end, now or never for Heavyweight move. I wonder can he use his belts at cruiser to get ranked or an eliminator at HW

[aicheligad]

Breidis is 37 in January, I wonder is it too late for him

He is past his prime, had some injuries, but he still can beat some top 10-15 HW's. I don't expect more from him at this point. He should move just now but instead, he choose to fight Artur Mann

Yep it's a garbage fight. Sauerland should make Hrgovic Vs Breidis. Breidis is nearing the end, now or never for Heavyweight move. I wonder can he use his belts at cruiser to get ranked or an eliminator at HW

It's not Sauerland now, got acquired by Wasserman.

I don't know if his belt would make him immediately ranked at HW. If he was a WBO Champion, he would immediately get a mandatory challenger status, but it's not the case for IBF title.

[Ambling Alp II]

This fight might be a wakeup call for some people, for others it won't be.

It will be interesting to see if more guys will not put on so much weight. At a certain point, weight stops becoming an advantage. At a later point, it actually becomes a disadvantage.

History has shown this over and over and over again. When you actually have a smaller heavyweight fighting a bigger heavyweight, the smaller guy wins a surprisingly high (to some people) percentage of the time.

There just isn't very many smaller heavyweights. (say 200-225)recently. Perhaps that will change.

[Enlightened-One]

EO, nobody expects that the average heavyweight championship fight winner (or simply champion) will be 225lbs.

Let's look at it in yet different way.

in the last 20 years (2002-2021) we had fighters, who won championship fights. Their average weights in those fights were:

Roy Jones Jr: 193 lbs
Chris Byrd: 213 lbs
David Haye: 216 lbs
Sultan Ibragimov: 220 lbs
Oleksandr Usyk: 221 lbs
Deontay Wilder: 223 lbs
Corrie Sanders: 225 lbs
Lamon Brewster: 226 lbs
Ruslan Chagaev: 228 lbs
John Ruiz: 237 lbs
Siarhei Liakhovich: 239 lbs
Oleg Maskaev: 239 lbs
Bermane Stiverne: 239 lbs
Wladimir Klitschko: 244 lbs
Anthony Joshua: 245 lbs
Joseph Parker: 246 lbs
Vitali Klitschko: 247 lbs
Charles Martin: 250 lbs
Samuel Peter: 251 lbs
Lennox Lewis: 253 lbs
Tyson Fury: 260 lbs
Andy Ruiz Jr: 268 lbs
Shannon Briggs: 268 lbs
Nikolay Valuev: 320 lbs

7 out of 24 (slighty more than 29%) were weighting 225lbs or less. If we include Brewster, who was above that limit but by a very little margin (he was 225,66 lbs), we have 8 out of 24, 1/3, 33,(3)%. Chagaev wasn't much above, too.

But what determines the Super-Heavies is also their height. Let's see at how tall these fighters are:

Roy Jones Jr: 180cm
Ruslan Chagaev: 185cm
Lamon Brewster: 188cm
John Ruiz: 188cm
Chris Byrd: 188cm
Bermane Stiverne: 188cm
Samuel Peter: 188cm
Andy Ruiz Jr: 188cm
Sultan Ibragimov: 188cm
David Haye: 191cm
Oleksandr Usyk: 191cm
Oleg Maskaev: 191cm
Corrie Sanders: 193cm
Joseph Parker: 193cm
Shannon Briggs: 193cm
Siarhei Liakhovich: 193cm
Charles Martin: 196cm
Lennox Lewis: 196cm
Anthony Joshua: 198cm
Wladimir Klitschko: 198cm
Deontay Wilder: 201cm
Vitali Klitschko: 201cm
Tyson Fury: 206cm
Nikolay Valuev: 213cm

Median: 192cm, Average: 193cm

Oleksandr Usyk is just 1cm below the median, and 2cm below average!

So, the average champion (both height and weight) of the SHW era is... Siarhei Liakhovich!

Fighters are getting bigger as time passes by. You can’t pretend this isn’t the case.

For instance:

• There’s a fourteen-year gap between Oleksandr Usyk’s victory over AJ and the most recent fighter to win a WBO world heavyweight title fight, Sultan Ibragimov, weighing less than 225lbs.

• There’s a sixteen-year gap between Oleksandr Usyk’s victory over AJ and the most recent fighter to win a IBF world heavyweight title fight, Chris Byrd, weighing less than 225lbs.

• Oleksandr Usyk is the only fighter to have ever won the WBA’s super world heavyweight title weighing less than 225lbs, which accounts for all 18 title bouts spanning more than a decade.

• Deontay Wilder is the only fighter within the last 25½ years to have won a WBC world heavyweight title fight officially weighing less than 225lbs.

People shouldn’t underestimate the enormity of Oleksandr Usyk’s achievement last weekend!

What the Ukrainian did to AJ was absolutely fantastic and phenomenally rare!

I really can’t believe you’re pretending that small fighters weighing less than 225lbs winning genuine versions of world heavyweight titles is currently commonplace, because it simply isn’t!

I’m not even going to bother discussing the names you’ve mentioned, because the points I’ve detailed in this post are irrefutable – those are real-world facts that not a single person on this planet can disagree with!

[Enlightened-One]

Lol average come on man you know im not fooled by that

Fighters are getting bigger as time passes by. You can’t pretend this isn’t the case.

For instance:

• There’s a fourteen-year gap between Oleksandr Usyk’s victory over AJ and the most recent fighter to win a WBO world heavyweight title fight, Sultan Ibragimov, weighing less than 225lbs.

• There’s a sixteen-year gap between Oleksandr Usyk’s victory over AJ and the most recent fighter to win a IBF world heavyweight title fight, Chris Byrd, weighing less than 225lbs.

• Oleksandr Usyk is the only fighter to have ever won the WBA’s super world heavyweight title weighing less than 225lbs, which accounts for all 18 title bouts spanning more than a decade.

• Deontay Wilder is the only fighter within the last 25½ years to have won a WBC world heavyweight title fight officially weighing less than 225lbs.

People shouldn’t underestimate the enormity of Oleksandr Usyk’s achievement last weekend!

What the Ukrainian did to AJ was absolutely fantastic and phenomenally rare!

I really can’t believe you’re pretending that small fighters weighing less than 225lbs winning genuine versions of world heavyweight titles is currently commonplace, because it simply isn’t!

[Ruthless-RKO]

Lol average come on man you know im not fooled by that

Fighters are getting bigger as time passes by. You can’t pretend this isn’t the case.

For instance:

• There’s a fourteen-year gap between Oleksandr Usyk’s victory over AJ and the most recent fighter to win a WBO world heavyweight title fight, Sultan Ibragimov, weighing less than 225lbs.

• There’s a sixteen-year gap between Oleksandr Usyk’s victory over AJ and the most recent fighter to win a IBF world heavyweight title fight, Chris Byrd, weighing less than 225lbs.

• Oleksandr Usyk is the only fighter to have ever won the WBA’s super world heavyweight title weighing less than 225lbs, which accounts for all 18 title bouts spanning more than a decade.

• Deontay Wilder is the only fighter within the last 25½ years to have won a WBC world heavyweight title fight officially weighing less than 225lbs.

I do agree with your post and that in general the HW world Champions are weighing heavier each time on average.

But you made one mistake on the WBA part.

David Haye held the WBA world title.

At the time, there was no regular or super or interim.

He held the legit world title at HW.

That was what 11-12 years ago?

[Enlightened-One]

But you made one mistake on the WBA part.

David Haye held the WBA world title.

At the time, there was no regular or super or interim.

He held the legit world title at HW.

That was what 11-12 years ago?

It's not a mistake. What I wrote is technically accurate, but remember, we're discussing the utterly rancid WBA.

Oleksandr Usyk is definitely the only fighter to have ever won the WBA’s super world heavyweight title weighing less than 225lbs, which accounts for all 18 title bouts spanning more than a decade.

https://boxrec.com/en/title/43/Heavyweight

If I specifically analyse the “regular” WBA world heavyweight title lineage (through to the current champion, Trevor Bryan), then David Haye is the only fighter within the last 18½ years to have won a title fight officially weighing less than 225lbs.

https://boxrec.com/en/title/41/Heavyweight

Another way of looking at the WBA title situation, is that there have been combined total of 43 WBA “super” and “regular” world heavyweight title fights within the last 18½ years.

And only four of those title bouts, which equates to 9%, were won by fighters officially weighing less than 225lbs (i.e. David Haye and Oleksandr Usyk).

I really can’t believe others are pretending that small fighters weighing less than 225lbs winning genuine versions of world heavyweight titles is currently commonplace.

[Ruthless-RKO]

But you made one mistake on the WBA part.

David Haye held the WBA world title.

At the time, there was no regular or super or interim.

He held the legit world title at HW.

That was what 11-12 years ago?

It's not a mistake. What I wrote is technically accurate, but remember, we're discussing the utterly rancid WBA.

Oleksandr Usyk is definitely the only fighter to have ever won the WBA’s super world heavyweight title weighing less than 225lbs, which accounts for all 18 title bouts spanning more than a decade.

https://boxrec.com/en/title/43/Heavyweight

If I specifically analyse the “regular” WBA world heavyweight title lineage (through to the current champion, Trevor Bryan), then David Haye is the only fighter within the last 18½ years to have won a title fight officially weighing less than 225lbs.

https://boxrec.com/en/title/41/Heavyweight

I really can’t believe others are pretending that small fighters weighing less than 225lbs winning genuine versions of world heavyweight titles is currently commonplace.

But that then they weren't that rancid and they only had ONE world title at HW. Yeh, TECHNICALLY Usyk is the first 'Super' champion.

Also, Boxrec's WBA lineage can be confusing especially after they introduced Interim, Regular and Super.

Usyk needs some respect on his name. He was heavily underestimated.

Some believe he performed sub-par against Witherspoon and Chisora on purpose so he could get his World title shots quick and not fight for a vacant belt.

[Enlightened-One]

But that then they weren't that rancid and they only had ONE world title at HW. Yeh, TECHNICALLY Usyk is the first 'Super' champion.

Also, Boxrec's WBA lineage can be confusing especially after they introduced Interim, Regular and Super.

Another way of looking at the WBA title situation, is that there have been combined total of 43 WBA “super” and “regular” world heavyweight title fights within the last 18½ years.

And only four of those title bouts, which equates to 9%, were won by fighters officially weighing less than 225lbs (with David Haye and Oleksandr Usyk being the only victors).

Usyk needs some respect on his name.

I completely agree!

People shouldn’t underestimate the enormity of Oleksandr Usyk’s achievement last weekend!

What the Ukrainian did to AJ was absolutely fantastic and phenomenally rare!

He was heavily underestimated.

I also submitted a couple of posts complaining about over the ridiculous betting odds, which classed the bout as a borderline mismatch.

I shouldn’t really complain though, because I paced a bet on Usyk to beat AJ and won.

[Bandog]

Boxing definitely doesn't need another weight division. I've seen several posts stating how rare it is for a heavy under 225-230 to win a belt. That makes justification of an additional weight class senseless. It would water things down at a time when boxing is struggling, with already too many belts.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Usyk is proof, that if you're truly a good enough boxer at CW, you can win a HW title..

Also, it depends on who's the champions at the time, vacant belt etc.

Usyk did it the hard way.

[Ambling Alp II]

How often has a significantly smaller guy actually lost?

There simply is not a lot of relatively small heavyweights out there. When two big fighters fight each other, obviously a big fighter is going to win. Therefore, most of the time the heavyweight champ is going to be big.

When we actually have a fight between a small heavyweight against a large heavyweight, the large heavyweight probably wins less than 51% of the time. Sheer weight does not win heavyweight fights. People have to get this through their heads.

If it did, then heavyweight champ would always be the biggest guy. It never happens. Ever.