Top 10 Cruiserweights of All Time

[DrDuke]

well usyk becomes unified champ again, this time at hw, but like alp says he simply doesnt have the depth of '10 round fighters' like terry mcgroom, michael rush, and courtney butler on his resume

cant rank him high among the greats without huge wins like that

But Terry McGroom won the great Ed Strickland in the Jirov era! Fighting in the Jirov era alone cost him being better actually, but he doubled it with Ed strickland!!!

[Cojimar 1946]

The recent cruisers all awesome. That is why everyone is always talking about hem. It's all cruiserweight this, cruiserweight that.
Take Murat Gassiev. Three years ago, he wasn't even in the top 10. Never won another fight at cruiserweight. And yet he is now #5. What an achievement!

Usyk looks even better after the Joshua fight, maybe he can beat Wilder too

[margaret thatcher]

until usyk adds depth to his resume by beating more '10 round fighters' ranked between 50-75 at cruiserweight, alp wont be impressed

yes he actually suggested this


dudes say no one fights the best, etc today, and when a guy comes along and cleans up, becoming undisputed champ and then unified hw champ entirely on the road, the argument is that he hasnt beaten enough guys who could barely even be considered fringe contenders. embarrassing

[Ambling Alp II]

Umm. Not really what I said. Go back and read it. Never said anything about beating guys in the top 50-75.

Just pointing out that he has not had a lot of fights. We will learn more about guys when they have more fights.

For how many years people have been going on and on about the importance of size for heavyweights. I have constantly said that history has proven that skill is much more important.

His win was yet more evidence that it is skill that matters, not the size. Like I have always been been saying. You don't automatically have a 20 pound or whatever weight advantage. The scale and the tape measure doesn't win fights. Skill, speed, stamina, strategy etc does. Usyk beating Joshua bores this out.

No idea how his win over Joshua would make you want to rehash this cruiserweight thread.

[margaret thatcher]

Umm. Not really what I said. Go back and read it. Never said anything about beating guys in the top 50-75.

Just pointing out that he has not had a lot of fights. We will learn more about guys when they have more fights.

For how many years people have been going on and on about the importance of size for heavyweights. I have constantly said that history has proven that skill is much more important.

His win was yet more evidence that it is skill that matters, not the size. Like I have always been been saying. You don't automatically have a 20 pound or whatever weight advantage. The scale and the tape measure doesn't win fights. Skill, speed, stamina, strategy etc does. Usyk beating Joshua bores this out.

No idea how his win over Joshua would make you want to rehash this cruiserweight thread.

you were ragging on him for his resume not having enough depth against '10 round fighters' , in comparison to james toney's great accomplishments at cruiser

[oogiebe]

Umm. Not really what I said. Go back and read it. Never said anything about beating guys in the top 50-75.

Just pointing out that he has not had a lot of fights. We will learn more about guys when they have more fights.

For how many years people have been going on and on about the importance of size for heavyweights. I have constantly said that history has proven that skill is much more important.

His win was yet more evidence that it is skill that matters, not the size. Like I have always been been saying. You don't automatically have a 20 pound or whatever weight advantage. The scale and the tape measure doesn't win fights. Skill, speed, stamina, strategy etc does. Usyk beating Joshua bores this out.

No idea how his win over Joshua would make you want to rehash this cruiserweight thread.

you were ragging on him for his resume not having enough depth against '10 round fighters' , in comparison to james toney's great accomplishments at cruiser

9 of Usyk's last 10 fights were against either very good fighters, or purposeful matchmaking for his next step. (two previous HW matchups). The quality of his resume far outweighs any 'lack of 10 round' fights. (I don't even know what that even means.)

[margaret thatcher]

check out all the great '10 round fighters' that toney fought at cruiser, just an amazing group of opponents

from the time he won his first title usyk has pretty much always faced world class opposition, very consistent with that. only 19 fights but much more quality than most guys with double that. and won every title fight plus his 2 hw tuneups on the road.

[oogiebe]

check out all the great '10 round fighters' that toney fought at cruiser, just an amazing group of opponents

from the time he won his first title usyk has pretty much always faced world class opposition, very consistent with that. only 19 fights but much more quality than most guys with double that. and won every title fight plus his 2 hw tuneups on the road.

100%

[Syntax Error]

I would love to have seen Michael Spinks and Michael Moorer at Cruiser.

[Ambling Alp II]

Umm. Not really what I said. Go back and read it. Never said anything about beating guys in the top 50-75.

Just pointing out that he has not had a lot of fights. We will learn more about guys when they have more fights.

For how many years people have been going on and on about the importance of size for heavyweights. I have constantly said that history has proven that skill is much more important.

His win was yet more evidence that it is skill that matters, not the size. Like I have always been been saying. You don't automatically have a 20 pound or whatever weight advantage. The scale and the tape measure doesn't win fights. Skill, speed, stamina, strategy etc does. Usyk beating Joshua bores this out.

No idea how his win over Joshua would make you want to rehash this cruiserweight thread.

you were ragging on him for his resume not having enough depth against '10 round fighters' , in comparison to james toney's great accomplishments at cruiser

9 of Usyk's last 10 fights were against either very good fighters, or purposeful matchmaking for his next step. (two previous HW matchups). The quality of his resume far outweighs any 'lack of 10 round' fights. (I don't even know what that even means.)

Back in May, 2018, when this thread started, I pointed out that he only had 14 fights. The first four were early in his career against preliminary fighters in fights scheduled for less than 10 rounds. My point being that I thought it was a bit early to be calling him a great fighter. That is all I was saying.

Wasn't ragging on him at all. Never actually criticized him for anything.

[margaret thatcher]

was it alp here who told me that usyk didnt have toney's body of work at cruiser

i remember a thread about the cruisers from a year or so ago. all the dudes who moan about today's fighters not showing ambition or fighting top opposition were ragging on usyk, when he did all those things at cw and in record time. they just want to complain about boxing sucking today !

Toney did have more wins over cruiserweights. More against 10-round fighters. His best win was better than Usyk's. But hey, Usyk is more recent, which Trumps everything.

3 years ago? you posted the above a couple months ago when he'd already been undisputed cw champ and was going to fight joshua. he'd cleaned out cruiserweight's world class fighters and champs but apparently hadnt proven himself sufficiently vs mediocre fringe of the fringe '10 round fighters'

needs more of those james toney 10 round fighters! the dream team of michael rush, jason robinson, terry mcgroom, and courtney butler

[DrDuke]

Why Jirov should be better than Briedis and Gassiev? Both of them defeated better cruisers than Jirov had possessed in his resume. Alpy is rock-n-rolling again. Someone, stop him.

[margaret thatcher]

agree jirov is debatable, he was a good fighter but did not really have many wins of note. lots of very weak opposition in his title reign. never unified like usyk, breidis, gassiev, etc.

gass beat lebedev, dorticos, wlodarczyk for example, all 3 multi time champs and who made the top 5. which 3 wins of jirov's compare?

but toney's jirov win was good no doubt. to say that usyk falls short of toney because of lacking the same depth of '10 round fighters' is purely laughably though

[Caractacus]

what about the heavyweights of the past
who fought most if not all their fights
at the Cruiser weight of today ?

[Ambling Alp II]

was it alp here who told me that usyk didnt have toney's body of work at cruiser

i remember a thread about the cruisers from a year or so ago. all the dudes who moan about today's fighters not showing ambition or fighting top opposition were ragging on usyk, when he did all those things at cw and in record time. they just want to complain about boxing sucking today !

Toney did have more wins over cruiserweights. More against 10-round fighters. His best win was better than Usyk's. But hey, Usyk is more recent, which Trumps everything.

3 years ago? you posted the above a couple months ago when he'd already been undisputed cw champ and was going to fight joshua. he'd cleaned out cruiserweight's world class fighters and champs but apparently hadnt proven himself sufficiently vs mediocre fringe of the fringe '10 round fighters'

needs more of those james toney 10 round fighters! the dream team of michael rush, jason robinson, terry mcgroom, and courtney butler

Go back and read the thread. I simply suggested three years ago (when he had a total of 14 fights) that maybe it's a bit too early. When the thread was brought back three years later, you jumped on that.

You said that Toney had not fought enough at cruiser weight. I pointed out that he did have more than Usyk. Also pointed out that he fought more fights at the weight class than Usyk did in fights scheduled for 10 rounds. Those are simply facts. You can look them up.

[Ambling Alp II]

what about the heavyweights of the past
who fought most if not all their fights
at the Cruiser weight of today ?

Obviously Dempsey, Tunney, Charles, Patterson etc. would be toast. They fought too long ago.

[margaret thatcher]

bruh , youre posting from A COUPLE MONTHS AGO that usyk doesnt match toney's body of work at cruiser, and that he falls short because he didnt beat all the '10 round fighters' toney did. besides, even if it was 3 years ago usyk was finished with cruiser in 2018, having won the undisputed title and succesfully defending it

as if any of those '10 round fighters' toney beat were at all relevant

[Caractacus]

yeah, but they fought better back then and were a lot more tougher individuals.

[Caractacus]

don't forget Bob Fitzsimmons.

[Ambling Alp II]

bruh , youre posting from A COUPLE MONTHS AGO that usyk doesnt match toney's body of work at cruiser, and that he falls short because he didnt beat all the '10 round fighters' toney did. besides, even if it was 3 years ago usyk was finished with cruiser in 2018, having won the undisputed title and succesfully defending it

as if any of those '10 round fighters' toney beat were at all relevant

bruh, I don't know you so obsessed with this. Usyk beats Joshua at heavyweight and you immediately bring up this old thread yet again? Again, I thought Toney's biggest win trumps Usyk's. Only reason I brought up Toney's other wins were because you said The didn't have many. Give it a frikkin rest.

[Ambling Alp II]

yeah, but they fought better back then and were a lot more tougher individuals.

I was kidding. However there are many people who think like that. Fighter's before there time automatically could not have been as good etc.

[DrDuke]

bruh , youre posting from A COUPLE MONTHS AGO that usyk doesnt match toney's body of work at cruiser, and that he falls short because he didnt beat all the '10 round fighters' toney did. besides, even if it was 3 years ago usyk was finished with cruiser in 2018, having won the undisputed title and succesfully defending it

as if any of those '10 round fighters' toney beat were at all relevant

bruh, I don't know you so obsessed with this. Usyk beats Joshua at heavyweight and you immediately bring up this old thread yet again? Again, I thought Toney's biggest win trumps Usyk's. Only reason I brought up Toney's other wins were because you said The didn't have many. Give it a frikkin rest.

What makes Jirov better than Briedis and Gassiev?

[Ambling Alp II]

This how one "expert" had it three years ago:

1. Evander Holyfield
2. Carlos De Leon
3. David Haye
4. Oleksandr Usyk
5. Marco Huck
6. Jean-Marc Mormeck
7. Juan Carlos Gomez
8. Vassiliy Jirov
9. Dwight Muhammad Qawi
10. James Toney

No Briedis or Gassiev.

Does this ring a bell?

[DrDuke]

This how one "expert" had it three years ago:

1. Evander Holyfield
2. Carlos De Leon
3. David Haye
4. Oleksandr Usyk
5. Marco Huck
6. Jean-Marc Mormeck
7. Juan Carlos Gomez
8. Vassiliy Jirov
9. Dwight Muhammad Qawi
10. James Toney

No Briedis or Gassiev.

Does this ring a bell?

What's the point of bringing back the argument of the user, which was overturned by the same user later?

Is this a way to run away from the question?

[margaret thatcher]

look at what briedis and gassiev accomplished, and just watch in the ring, clearly they have strong arguments for being rated higher than jirov . jirov also then failed to do anything at hw which would suggest his superiority , in fact briedis ktfoing charr is better than any hw win vassily had

what were jirov's 3 best wins and where was unificiation etc? does it match, say, gassiev beating lebedev, dorticos, and wlodarczyk, all multi time title holders who reached the top 5, and being unified champion? is anyone jizzing over dale brown, julian letterlough, alex gonzales, etc?

jirov was a good fighter for sure, but i dont see how toney beating him is superior to usyk 12-0 gassiev for example, and usyk had many good cw wins, not just one like toney, who never beat any top 10 fighter aside from jirov and didnt make a single defence

anyone arguing toney's career at cruiser > usyk's is having a laugh