Larry Holmes laughs off suggestions Anthony Joshua would’ve beaten him

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

What fight was the pinnacle of holmes career? The one where people said he is at the top of his game?

Well... That's a very limited question isn't it? And it leads to a very narrow viewpoint of the man's entire career...

Probably the greatest thing about Larry was that he was dominant over a long stretch of time - he was World Heavyweight Champion from 78 to 85 and that encompasses 20 successful title fights...

Usually someone points to one fight and says "he was near unbeatable that night" pacquiao vs hatton comes to mind. Tyson vs spinks.... etc

[squiggy]

Larry Holmes laughs off suggestions Anthony Joshua would’ve beaten him

The thing is when a reigning Champ loses and it breaks his reign - it just makes long title reigns like Larry's looks all the more impressive, not that they weren't already tremendously impressive to begin with...
But there is a reason why Larry is a top 10 HW of all time and AJ is way down the list at the moment...

I would also say that even if he avenges his loss, I doubt that he will ever be remembered in The Eaton Assassin's league... Very few Champions (let alone men) compare to him...

- Gotta Unicorn link with for your Peter Pan Tinkerbell Candyland Universe?

The "Who Dat" Holmesly won a hotly contested split decision against the very popular Ken Norton by 1 point out of the 855 pts cast, a 0.0012% margin. No lucrative rematch of that disputed WBC Administrative title. His actual title record vs standing champs having won their titles in the ring is 0-6, 0 KO, a single belt holder in a multibelt era.

AJ is a genuine unified champ with more collective belt defenses than Holmesly who was instrumental in ditching the WBC to create more belts with the IBF. Yet not even that dubious org who's founder, Bob Lee, who would soon be serving a prison sentence for crookery could stomach sanctioning Marvis Frazier as title bout, I mean really, where's your link to Candyland?

Butterbean been mentioned, and so what top fighters were ever calling out Bean? Noone...NOONE is the short answer, but Holmesly felt compelled and got mocked and knocked down for his insolence in his last ring moment on this earth.

Oh the shame of the shameless...W0W

He fought (and easily beat) Butterbean at fifty fornicating two years old, dipshit.

[HomicideHenry]

Is someone actually saying Larry Holmes is not as good as Anthony Joshua? Lmao

Larry Holmes DID NOT need all of the belts to be "the man" in the heavyweight division. He was the lineal heavyweight champion. There's little doubt he would've beaten WBA trinket champions like Gerrie Coetzee.

Among the victims of the prime Larry Holmes?

Tim Witherspoon, who would go on to be two time heavyweight champion in his own right.

Mike Weaver, who would go on to be WBA heavyweight champion.

Trevor Berbick, who would go on to be WBC heavyweight champion.

Ken Norton, who was the WBC heavyweight champion whose greatest claim to fame was his controversial trilogy with Muhammad Ali where Norton arguably won all three fights.

Earnie Shavers (2x), arguably the hardest hitting heavyweight of all time.

Leon Spinks, Olympic gold medalist and former undisputed heavyweight champion.

Bonecrusher Smith, who would go on to be WBA heavyweight champion.

And of course an array of defenses against guys like Tex Cobb, Gerry Cooney, Scott LeDoux, Lorenzo Zanon, Ossie Ocasio, etc.

The victims of the old, passed his prime Larry Holmes?

Ray Mercer, former WBO heavyweight champion.

Jose Ribalta

Jesse Ferguson

And he had two competitive losses to Evander Holyfield and Oliver McCall not to mention an extremely controversial "loss" to Brian Nielsen for the IBO heavyweight title.

Furthermore.... After Larry Holmes won the decision against Butterbean, I recall there was talks of Larry Holmes facing Juan Carlos Gomez (believe it or not). Thank Jesus Christ Almighty God it didn't happen but it goes to show that his standing as a heavyweight even at the age of 50 was such that he could've easily of got himself a fight with a man who was ranked in the top ten (at the time).

[DrDuke]

Why is everyone arguing with a comedy account?

[jamesmcdonnell]

What fight was the pinnacle of holmes career? The one where people said he is at the top of his game?

Well... That's a very limited question isn't it? And it leads to a very narrow viewpoint of the man's entire career...

Probably the greatest thing about Larry was that he was dominant over a long stretch of time - he was World Heavyweight Champion from 78 to 85 and that encompasses 20 successful title fights...

Precisely, a career isn't defined in a single fight. Well, not a really successful one anyway.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

Yet not even that dubious org who's founder, Bob Lee, who would soon be serving a prison sentence for crookery could stomach sanctioning Marvis Frazier as title bout, I mean really

The Frazier fight was NOT sanctioned for either the WBC or IBF titles....


Oh dearie, dearie me - what a complete knobhead you really are...

- What part of Bob Lee wouldn't sanction that fight don't you understand? It's what Holmesy wanted.

When did you transition to Dunce?

[Crease]

The "Who Dat" Holmesly won a hotly contested split decision against the very popular Ken Norton by 1 point out of the 855 pts cast, a 0.0012% margin. No lucrative rematch of that disputed WBC Administrative title. His actual title record vs standing champs having won their titles in the ring is 0-6, 0 KO, a single belt holder in a multibelt era.

Oh the shame of the shameless...W0W

So who was the best Heavyweight around during the post Ali era?

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

The "Who Dat" Holmesly won a hotly contested split decision against the very popular Ken Norton by 1 point out of the 855 pts cast, a 0.0012% margin. No lucrative rematch of that disputed WBC Administrative title. His actual title record vs standing champs having won their titles in the ring is 0-6, 0 KO, a single belt holder in a multibelt era.

Oh the shame of the shameless...W0W

So who was the best Heavyweight around during the post Ali era?

- Not sure why you would have to ask for the most obvious answer, but Mike Tyson. Set a record not likely to be broken as the youngest hvy champ when he grabbed the WBC in an iconic blowout, and then preceded to knock down all the relevant WBA champs Lar avoided as well as the undefeated Mike Spinks himself in another iconic blowout that bookended his prime.

At the close of the 80s he was 23 years old, held all three relevant belts and considered invincible, and with most of his record setting earnings set up by his HOF team in a $50 mil retirement trust fund, he had supplanted the doddering tragedy of Ali in the modern international mind. In spite of living out a full blown manic-depressive public mental melt down, he continued to earn record setting $$$ as a 4 round circus act in the 90s after DKing syphoned off his trust fund during his orchestrated incarceration. No fighter had a bigger fall from his perfect grace, so it was telling when short clip of him in shape surfaced that set the internet and boxing world afire that set off the Roy exhibition that led to the unfortunate return of Vander still chasing a Tyson payday after all these years.

Big George, the Ks, and now AJ have become international heavywt icons, but AJ in his current fall from grace has yet to settle his legacy.

[Crease]

Not sure why you would have to ask for the most obvious answer, but Mike Tyson. Set a record not likely to be broken as the youngest hvy champ when he grabbed the WBC in an iconic blowout, and then preceded to knock down all the relevant WBA champs Lar avoided as well as the undefeated Mike Spinks himself in another iconic blowout that bookended his prime.

That's fine, we are all aware of Tyson's credentials... But didn't Tyson rise to Champ in '86... And Ali retired in '78...
So there is an eight year stretch
Who was the best Heavyweight in those years, immediately proceeding after Ali's retirement?

That is the time frame that I was talking about as you well know

Probably the greatest thing about Larry was that he was dominant over a long stretch of time - he was World Heavyweight Champion from 78 to 85 and that encompasses 20 successful title fights...

No point skipping ahead nearly a decade there...

[Tony1244]

Today’s guys are physically bigger and have better nutritional training.....previous generations were higher skilled (on average) and fought more often Sharpening those skills....it’s a debate we will never know the answer to.

I can’t speak for other countries....but in the US, the best young athletes Growing up in the 40s, 50s, 60s often went into boxing, over other sports....That is certainly not the case now.

There are a lot of potential good heavyweights playing middle linebacker and power forward....and a lot of good potential middleweights playing wide receiver or soccer, most likely.

Yup. and I'm sure someone will mock this. But you are absolutely correct sir.

I Third This!

[margaret thatcher]

ya, evander holyfield would be an all star point guard these days

mike tyson, would be pro bowl running back or soccer player

sonny liston a homerun king or ice hockey great

larry holmes an award winning tap dancer

not sure on the power fowards though tbh, those dudes are like 6'9+, usa has never had a standout hw that tall, those dudes were never going into boxing much so not sure how today is any different. that is hypothetical talent that was never really there at any point

[Crease]

Today’s guys are physically bigger and have better nutritional training.....previous generations were higher skilled (on average) and fought more often Sharpening those skills....it’s a debate we will never know the answer to.

I can’t speak for other countries....but in the US, the best young athletes Growing up in the 40s, 50s, 60s often went into boxing, over other sports....That is certainly not the case now.

There are a lot of potential good heavyweights playing middle linebacker and power forward....and a lot of good potential middleweights playing wide receiver or soccer, most likely.

Yup. and I'm sure someone will mock this. But you are absolutely correct sir.

I Third This!

It's been said many times... The guaranteed money from lucrative contracts from the NFL and the NBA are absorbing the best athletes out there...

Bert Sugar used to complain about this all the time: (2:00 onward)

[margaret thatcher]

marciano, forgot about him, a sure thing basketball star

[oogiebe]

marciano, forgot about him, a sure thing basketball star

He was an all state running back if memory serves.

[margaret thatcher]

Rocky Marciano grew up playing football and baseball. He had never even put on boxing gloves until after he was drafted into the Army in 1943. After basic training and deployment to Wales, he came to Fort Lewis in 1946 for discharge

Sounds like America needs more army drafts to up their hw talent

[The Gratest]

It was more likely his stint in Wales that did it for him.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

ya, evander holyfield would be an all star point guard these days

mike tyson, would be pro bowl running back or soccer player

sonny liston a homerun king or ice hockey great

larry holmes an award winning tap dancer

not sure on the power fowards though tbh, those dudes are like 6'9+, usa has never had a standout hw that tall, those dudes were never going into boxing much so not sure how today is any different. that is hypothetical talent that was never really there at any point

Julius long baby

[margaret thatcher]

[Syntax Error]

I don't agree with everything Holmes says as he sometimes comes across as churlish and he often seems reluctant to credit latter day guys now that he himself is an old-timer, but I do agree that he would have beaten Joshua.

Holmes would have tormented Joshua with his piston like jab and would most likely have won a competitive but ultimately comfortable decision.

Joshua would certainly have been a live opponent and it wouldn't surprise me if he decked Holmes as he certainly has the power, but Holmes had great recuperative powers and Joshua lacks the all-round fundamentals that any fighter would have needed to beat peak Holmes.

[Crease]

Think my question about who The Number One Heavyweight was pre-Tyson is a bit too hard for you then, you've gone quiet all of a sudden...

It is really too difficult for you to admit that Larry Holmes was the best Heavyweight in the world for many years?
Your silence speaks volumes....

[Jaywheel]

Holmes beats Joshua but I always found Holmes overrated. His unlikeable character sure doesn't help, but he gets praised for decisionning guys that people use to discredit Tyson even if he destroyed them in 1 or 2 rds.

[Thomastearns]

Holmes beats Joshua but I always found Holmes overrated. His unlikeable character sure doesn't help, but he gets praised for decisionning guys that people use to discredit Tyson even if he destroyed them in 1 or 2 rds.

Maybe, maybe not.

Larry Holmes is one of the best heavyweights of modern times, the record speaks for itself, but one ever claimed that he was better than Mike Tyson.

Not even at his peak.

The kind of devastation that Mike Tyson wreaked upon the heavyweight division remains unique in modern times.

Even before him, you'd have to go back to George Foreman and Sonny Liston.

Foreman's demolition of both Frazier and Norton is altogether unprecedented.

The only thing revealed by so-called pundits who demand that Anthony Joshua should have tried to emulate George Foreman is their own ignorance.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

Not sure why you would have to ask for the most obvious answer, but Mike Tyson. Set a record not likely to be broken as the youngest hvy champ when he grabbed the WBC in an iconic blowout, and then preceded to knock down all the relevant WBA champs Lar avoided as well as the undefeated Mike Spinks himself in another iconic blowout that bookended his prime.

That's fine, we are all aware of Tyson's credentials... But didn't Tyson rise to Champ in '86... And Ali retired in '78...
So there is an eight year stretch
Who was the best Heavyweight in those years, immediately proceeding after Ali's retirement?
That is the time frame that I was talking about as you well know

Probably the greatest thing about Larry was that he was dominant over a long stretch of time - he was World Heavyweight Champion from 78 to 85 and that encompasses 20 successful title fights...

No point skipping ahead nearly a decade there...

- Playing movable goalposts are you? You asked, "So who was the best Heavyweight around during the post Ali era?"

Tyson was, is, and always shall be the answer forever more. He's little more than 3 yrs removed from the last Ali fight, and then he obliterated the stink of Lar and his fellow WBA titlists that Lar ducked like a walk in the park.

Here's Lar at age 23, his pro debut, this after getting KOed in the Olympic Trials as an Ali protégé by Dwayne Bobick.

https://boxrec.com/en/event/191/194

Age 23 - Joe Louis wins the undisputed title.
Age 22 - Clay wins a disputed title in the farce of Liston and thus stripped by the WBA in the rematch farce where Ali should've been DQed for fighting with JJWalcott and trying to kick Liston in the head.
Age 23 and Tyson concussively and conclusively had already consolidated all relevant 4 titles that counted as the 80s closed to restore boxing as the most magnetic professional sport in the world . Relevant literature then including most old salts had never seen anything like him and were pronouncing him the best ever, and had he then retired, that's what it would be today. You could look it up along with Lar's 0-6, 0 KO record against standing champs having won their titles in the ring. It ain't brain surgery

Let's put down the supposed Lar lineal title for beating a medically feeble Ali whom Ferdie had removed himself from. I could've beat that Ali, not that 20,000 other heathy males knowing about boxing couldn't have also accomplished the dirty deed if they had the stomach to fight a sick man. Had I been The Grand Poohbah, in advance I'd have sentenced all relevant promoters and commishes to a 5 year mandatory sentence living in and working gratis in local Dog Pounds.

I have never watched that fight nor the Berbick fight any more than I watch medically or mentally impaired folks getting beat up on youtube. Thank the heavens above Vander recently eliminated hisself post haste in his Triller disaster with no damage done save that to his reputation and his fans.

The dishonestly disingenuous often cite that Tyson only gave Lar 3 months notice for their fight ignoring Lar had been in training for a year in his own gym on his own homestead for just that fight in between appearing at every Tyson fight to publicly impugn Mike in the most derogatory manner possible on broadcast TV. Lar begged and Mike gave it to him.

Mike never had to beg. Fighters came begging to him, thus Lar became one in a long line of them, and then Lar went begging to Foreman and on to Butterbean. 'Tis what it 'tis...

[Crease]

- Playing movable goalposts are you? You asked, "So who was the best Heavyweight around during the post Ali era?"
Tyson was, is, and always shall be the answer forever more. He's little more than 3 yrs removed from the last Ali fight, and then he obliterated the stink of Lar and his fellow WBA titlists that Lar ducked like a walk in the park.

An amateur Mike Tyson without winning his first pro fight was already the best Heavyweight in the world, ahead of the reigning and dominant Heavyweight Champ Larry Holmes???



I rest my case...

[margaret thatcher]

how much better was larry's reign than ggg's