Long Counts

[Grilling Machine]

I timed from when Wilder and Fury hit the canvas to the fight resuming (±1):

Wilder R3 — 19
Fury R4 1st — 20
Fury R4 2nd — 21
Wilder R10 — 23

As long as they standardise this I think I'm okay with it, but as a fighter I'd be worried if I'm gonna get 10, 15 or 20 seconds, and whether to risk getting up a bit later if I think I might increase it. I'd hope that each ref makes it clear how they roll in the dressing rooms. Foreman-Lyle for comparison:

Foreman R4 1st — 13
Lyle R4 — 14
Foreman R4 2nd — up at 7 after the bell

When Wilder was knocked down in the 11th it was clearly over, but I could see they were both alert after the other knockdowns without “Are you okay? Walk to me. Gloves up.” every time. That's absolutely right when there's uncertainty, but is it good practice otherwise?

(I also wonder if refs are picking up the count properly when the standing fighter takes longer to get to neutral, but that's an individual basis thing.)

With old-school counting, Wilder would've had an extra 15 seconds in R4, and likewise, Fury might've stopped him in R3 to save him another beating. After a ‘short’ count you're more likely to get caught again and stopped soon after, which is possibly better for your health. Instead of recovering enough during a long count to take a hammering for the rest of the round, and then getting sparked at the end of it anyway.

Similar argument to boxing vs UFC gloves re: brain damage. These extended counts feel like quite a recent trend?

[margaret thatcher]

it seems the refs vary in what they do after the count of 8 - some do a lot more fiddling and walk to me stuff than others. whatever the ref does in that situation, they shouldnt give 1 fighter more time to recover than the other

[p4p1]

Comparing counts now to even just 20 years ago is pointless. The effects of concussion etc are much better understood than they have been before and I believe that the Ref has a duty of care with fighters to make sure they can understand instructions such as put your hands up and do you want to continue.

I think you have raised an interesting question though, does this practise end in fighters having more time to recover therefor taking more punches along the way? How should boxing balance the 'looks' of the safety aspect such as bigger gloves, certain padding, longer counts, more checks to make sure they can safely continue against more traditional gloves/padding, smaller gloves, less checks after a count etc. which may, in the long run be safer based on the simple fact that less time to recover can mean less punches are taken overall. It's a bit like in MMA when the fighter follows the downed opponent to the floor and finishes him, yes it looks worse but in the long run is it a safer practise?

[ironbeard]

There is a longterm study that suggests that boxers generally suffer more brain damage than MMA fighters. However, it is funded significantly by the UFC.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.revie ... 44785/amp/

[Bard of Boxrec]

The long counts on Saturday night were like wrestling when both guys are on the floor and the ref take 40 seconds to count to ten. Noticeably long

[Winter king]

Yeah but the counting starts when the other fighter stands in a neutral corner and if my memory serves me right the ref had to tell them several times to go in the corner.

[margaret thatcher]

isnt the ringside counter supposed to keep the count going, then the ref looks to him to know where to start it

[amwsnw]

isnt the ringside counter supposed to keep the count going, then the ref looks to him to know where to start it

Thats my understanding and is why the ref can pick the count up mid count. Having long counts can be more risky and detrimental to a fighter who can get his faculties back for a short time before being more seriously injured.

[DrDuke]

Nearly all of the counts themselves weren't long, but in recent times referees check boxers' ability to continue in a more meticulous way. It's reasonable though.

[gregregegg]

Wilder was up at 7... ref waved it instantly but still pretty remarkable...

[Enlightened-One]

A ten count does not mean ten seconds.

The referee is expected to bark commands, which the fallen fighter should obey, proving they’re mentally competent, capable of comprehending and following instructions.

Most fighters that hit the deck only choose to rise to their feet at the count of eight. They can only be expected to follow the referees commands.

The referee must also take the opportunity, after the fighter has risen to their feet, to make sure they’re able to competently defend themselves.

Also, the fighter that scored the knockdown must follow the rules, by instinctively and immediately relocating to the furthest neutral corner.

If they fail to do this, the referee is allowed to interrupt (or not even commence) the count until this rule has been obeyed.

Deontay Wilder has scored multiple knockdowns over Tyson Fury and allowed ‘They Gypsy King’ several extra seconds recovery time, because his repeated refusal to immediately obey this rather simple rule!

Basically, the quicker the rules are obeyed by both fighters, the sooner the referee will complete the ten-count process.

People shouldn’t use stopwatches to verify the duration of the referees count or how long a fighter has remained on the canvas.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Eo is spot on. Some states are training refs to ask more questions or make the fighter walk before allowing the fight to continue as well