Who had a better WBC reign - Vitali Klitschko or Deontay Wilder

[Kronkpride]

I had Tyson Fury winning by 2 with 2 very close rounds people saw all over. I had him comfortably cruising to a win that could not be a razor slim win or a draw on the cards. And that was the way the cards were too.

113 113 is the card that decided it....Tyson Fury gave that card away when he had it. He could lose the round and still win the card as long as he doesn't go down. He wins the card 114 113 losing the round 9-10.

Tyson Fury lost that shit. If I had any bias scoring it that goes to Fury's benefit. After the fight ending and all the cards and public thoughts on the fight beating the champ the right way definitely comes into play. He had the wide lead and choked it up. Fumbled the football.

The card I said was the least legit was the one claiming Wilder won on points. But that card did not rob Fury or change anything. Fury changed the draw card to a draw on his own. 100% facts jack.

[Finkel]

I had Tyson Fury winning by 2 with 2 very close rounds people saw all over. I had him comfortably cruising to a win that could not be a razor slim win or a draw on the cards. And that was the way the cards were too.

113 113 is the card that decided it....Tyson Fury gave that card away when he had it. He could lose the round and still win the card as long as he doesn't go down. He wins the card 114 113 losing the round 9-10.

Tyson Fury lost that shit. If I had any bias scoring it that goes to Fury's benefit. After the fight ending and all the cards and public thoughts on the fight beating the champ the right way definitely comes into play. He had the wide lead and choked it up. Fumbled the football.

The card I said was the least legit was the one claiming Wilder won on points. But that card did not rob Fury or change anything. Fury changed the draw card to a draw on his own. 100% facts jack.

Okay as you like opinions as fact, let's approach this statistically (lies, damn lies and statistics)...

If the LA athletic commission had a pool of 20 elite judges from which to choose, and the judges fairly reflect the general scoring of the boxing enthusiasts, of those 20 judges you would have:

1 judge out of the pool of 20 who would score the fight 114-112 in favour of Wilder.
2 out of 20 who would score the fight a draw.
6 out of 20 who would score the fight 114-112 for Fury.
7 out of 20 who would score the fight 115-113 for Fury.
4 out of 20 who would score the fight 116-110 for Fury.

Of course this is a rough approximation to illustrate the point, but it’s more likely that we would get a W for Fury with two 116-110 cards, than a majority draw with two 113-113 cards if the selection of the judges was random.

Now everyone has a bias, but if you plotted that on a bell curve, you could say 116-110 shows a strong bias toward Fury's work. 115-113 shows a mild bias toward Fury's work, 114-112 a mild bias toward Wilder, and a 113-113 a strong bias toward Wilder. With 112-114 being an extreme bias toward Wilder.

But what did we actually get:
1 judge who gave Fury 114-112. (Mild bias toward Wilder)
1 judge who gave a draw (Strong bias toward Wilder)
1 judge who gave a 113-115 in favour of Wilder (Off the chart bias toward Wilder)

It’s pretty easy to see why many are not letting this piece of recent boxing history be remembered as a draw no questions asked. And those are some hard "facts Jack".

[Kronkpride]

Wilder was defending champ bro. Fury was a voluntary. Wilder vs Joshua was the dream fight of the time.

What do you expect in boxing? The cash cow guy who is usually the team calling the shots guy is going to get some leans in boxing judging. And it was USA soil and everywhere pretty much has a lean to home fighters. Though Fury is no average foreigner and the USA adopts him every chance they can.

In terms of the money interests at the time too. It is no good for them to have any sway but if they do why would they lean towards the fat coke head quitter guy at the time? Fury was far from what he is today then. Wilder getting some lean is smart even if it is not proper. It is normal though.

People having to really beat the champ has been the real deal so much. And in their own countries even more. Gotta stay on your feet in the 12th round to seal some of those leaned deals. I had Tyson up 4 points going into round 12. He ended in only winning by 2 for me. And 2 rounds were real close I had for him.

If he wins round 12 by 10-9 he takes the 113 113 card 115 112. If he loses 10 9 it is 114 113 Fury. He got up to fight another day on not lose his Lineal HW Title but he lost the WBC strap on his own the first chance he got at it. Gifted it back to Wilder for a little while longer. The only bungle of Fury's career outside the drugs and endangering his whole career for awhile.

Makes it even sweeter though going and smashing the champ twice after that though. Tyson Fury is not perfect and nobody is. He seems to be learning from his failures and has always persevered bouncing back. It is a great real life story but it does include him F'n himself over in round 12 the 1st fight.

[DrDuke]

fury > aj and wlad > vit and deontay

100%.

[Bard of Boxrec]

Both putrid. Paging saad. Lol

[funso banjo baby]

It could be argued Klitschko grabbed a linear title by beating Corrie sanders

[Enlightened-One]

If we’re only discussing WBC world heavyweight title bouts, which is the topic of this thread, then Vitali Klitschko’s championship reign is better than Deontay Wilder's.

It's not even close!


Vitali's resume:

• Vitali Klitschko is a 'Hall-of-Famer', inducted into the IBHoF in 2018.

• Over the course of thirteen years, Vitali Klitschko engaged in eighteen world title fights (fourteen of them for the WBC championship), facing nine former world champions, despite being inactive for a four-year period during that timeframe.

• ‘Dr. Ironfist’ is a three-time world heavyweight champion and was rated amongst The RING’s top-ten heavyweight annual rankings nine times between the years 1999 to 2012. The only reason for him not being rated for four of those years was due to his temporary retirement.

• Vitali managed to reclaim his WBC world heavyweight title back from The RING’s second-highest ranked heavyweight fighter, Samuel Peter, without even bothering with a warm-up fight, despite being inactive for four years beforehand, due to retirement.

• Over the course of his 15½ year career in the pro ranks, Vitali scored 41 knockouts in the 47 bouts he competed in, with 91% of his victories coming by way of KO, the highest percentage of any retired former world heavyweight champion.

• His only losses were due to having suffered injuries. And he was even leading on all three official judges’ scorecards at the time both fights were stopped.

• Only Wladimir Klitschko, Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali and Larry Holmes have achieved more victories whilst competing in world heavyweight title fights.

• Won 195 of 210 amateur bouts.

[DrDuke]

The version of Wladimir Klitschko that Tyson Fury managed defeat was on the cusp of turning forty years of age and also had a lot of personal problems occurring outside the ring (i.e. his partner, Hayden Panettiere, was suffering from post-partum depression, postponed their wedding and had only just checked into rehab)

Holy sh!t, it seemed like nothing could be worse than a heavy costume, poisoned water and the white privilege, but look, none of those things is as severe as postponing a wedding.

[Enlightened-One]

The version of Wladimir Klitschko that Tyson Fury managed defeat was on the cusp of turning forty years of age and also had a lot of personal problems occurring outside the ring (i.e. his partner, Hayden Panettiere, was suffering from post-partum depression, postponed their wedding and had only just checked into rehab)

Holy sh!t, it seemed like nothing could be worse than a heavy costume, poisoned water and the white privilege, but look, none of those things is as severe as postponing a wedding.

I don't think Tyson Fury beat the best version of Wladimir Klitschko.

The Ukrainian was the massive betting favourite and also had a lot of personal problems when he fought Tyson Fury.

I'm not being disrespectful, but I suspect Wladimir probably overlooked the Brit, had become complacent, was physically past-his-prime, off-form and his mind was distracted dealing with personal issues.

And to be honest, I don't feel that Tyson Fury was at his best last weekend either, even though it as a phenominally exciting bout, because he also had to deal with personal problems during his preparation for the Wilder rematch.

[DrDuke]

The version of Wladimir Klitschko that Tyson Fury managed defeat was on the cusp of turning forty years of age and also had a lot of personal problems occurring outside the ring (i.e. his partner, Hayden Panettiere, was suffering from post-partum depression, postponed their wedding and had only just checked into rehab)

Holy sh!t, it seemed like nothing could be worse than a heavy costume, poisoned water and the white privilege, but look, none of those things is as severe as postponing a wedding.

I don't think Tyson Fury beat the best version of Wladimir Klitschko.

The Ukrainian was the massive betting favourite and also had a lot of personal problems when he fought Tyson Fury.

I'm not being disrespectful, but I suspect Wladimir probably overlooked the Brit, had become complacent, was physically past-his-prime, off-form and his mind was distracted dealing with personal issues.

And to be honest, I don't feel that Tyson Fury was at his best last weekend either, even though it as a phenominally exciting bout, because he also had to deal with personal problems during his preparation for the Wilder rematch.

Course not the best version of Klitschko, that motherf*cking postponed wedding squeezed out all life forces from poor Wlad.

[Enlightened-One]

Holy sh!t, it seemed like nothing could be worse than a heavy costume, poisoned water and the white privilege, but look, none of those things is as severe as postponing a wedding.

I don't think Tyson Fury beat the best version of Wladimir Klitschko.

The Ukrainian was the massive betting favourite and also had a lot of personal problems when he fought Tyson Fury.

I'm not being disrespectful, but I suspect Wladimir probably overlooked the Brit, had become complacent, was physically past-his-prime, off-form and his mind was distracted dealing with personal issues.

And to be honest, I don't feel that Tyson Fury was at his best last weekend either, even though it as a phenominally exciting bout, because he also had to deal with personal problems during his preparation for the Wilder rematch.

Course not the best version of Klitschko, that motherf*cking postponed wedding squeezed out all life forces from poor Wlad.

I guess you couldn't read the entire sentence I wrote, since you only seem to willing to discuss the cancelled wedding?

[DrDuke]

I don't think Tyson Fury beat the best version of Wladimir Klitschko.

The Ukrainian was the massive betting favourite and also had a lot of personal problems when he fought Tyson Fury.

I'm not being disrespectful, but I suspect Wladimir probably overlooked the Brit, had become complacent, was physically past-his-prime, off-form and his mind was distracted dealing with personal issues.

And to be honest, I don't feel that Tyson Fury was at his best last weekend either, even though it as a phenominally exciting bout, because he also had to deal with personal problems during his preparation for the Wilder rematch.

Course not the best version of Klitschko, that motherf*cking postponed wedding squeezed out all life forces from poor Wlad.

I guess you couldn't read the entire sentence I wrote, since you only seem to willing to discuss the cancelled wedding?

Don't underestimate the wedding, it was serious.

[Enlightened-One]

Course not the best version of Klitschko, that motherf*cking postponed wedding squeezed out all life forces from poor Wlad.

I guess you couldn't read the entire sentence I wrote, since you only seem to willing to discuss the cancelled wedding?

Don't underestimate the wedding, it was serious.

Anyway, do you feel Tyson Fury beat the peak version of Wladimir Klitschko?

I don't and I suspect you don't either.

Surely we must agree on that simple point?

[DrDuke]

I guess you couldn't read the entire sentence I wrote, since you only seem to willing to discuss the cancelled wedding?

Don't underestimate the wedding, it was serious.

Anyway, do you feel Tyson Fury beat the peak version of Wladimir Klitschko?

I don't and I suspect you don't either.

Surely we must agree on that simple point?

To call this point a simple it's necessary to figure out two things.

When was Klitschko's prime over?

What indicated its end?

[Counter-puncher]

The version of Wladimir Klitschko that Tyson Fury managed defeat was on the cusp of turning forty years of age and also had a lot of personal problems occurring outside the ring (i.e. his partner, Hayden Panettiere, was suffering from post-partum depression, postponed their wedding and had only just checked into rehab)

Holy sh!t, it seemed like nothing could be worse than a heavy costume, poisoned water and the white privilege, but look, none of those things is as severe as postponing a wedding.

[Enlightened-One]

Don't underestimate the wedding, it was serious.

Anyway, do you feel Tyson Fury beat the peak version of Wladimir Klitschko?

I don't and I suspect you don't either.

Surely we must agree on that simple point?

To call this point a simple it's necessary to figure out two things.

When was Klitschko's prime over?

What indicated its end?

I reckon Wladimir’s powers began to wane in the aftermath of the Povetkin bout.

He showed vulnerabilities against Kubrat Pulev, though it was still a decent win. He was lacklustre against Bryant Jennings and even timid against Fury.

Wladimir’s last hurrah was his valiant effort against the relatively novice iteration of AJ.

[gregregegg]

klit was 39.5 and 67 fights in... Very very unlikely he was still true prime. That being said, he was the number 1 heavy at the time, and would of probably beat every other heavyweight that night.

Had never showed real signs of fading, jennings performance wasn't the best i guess, i think prime klit stops jennings without losing a round on any card.

[DrDuke]

Anyway, do you feel Tyson Fury beat the peak version of Wladimir Klitschko?

I don't and I suspect you don't either.

Surely we must agree on that simple point?

To call this point a simple it's necessary to figure out two things.

When was Klitschko's prime over?

What indicated its end?

I reckon Wladimir’s powers began to wane in the aftermath of the Povetkin bout.

He showed vulnerabilities against Kubrat Pulev, though it was still a decent win. He was lacklustre against Bryant Jennings and even timid against Fury.

Wladimir’s last hurrah was his valiant effort against the relatively novice iteration of AJ.

He showed 'vulnerabilities' even against Wach and Haye, but nothing kept him away from dominating all them hayes-wachs-pulevs-jenningses in an utterly one-sided fashion.

[Enlightened-One]

To call this point a simple it's necessary to figure out two things.

When was Klitschko's prime over?

What indicated its end?

I reckon Wladimir’s powers began to wane in the aftermath of the Povetkin bout.

He showed vulnerabilities against Kubrat Pulev, though it was still a decent win. He was lacklustre against Bryant Jennings and even timid against Fury.

Wladimir’s last hurrah was his valiant effort against the relatively novice iteration of AJ.

He showed 'vulnerabilities' even against Wach and Haye, but nothing kept him away from dominating all them hayes-wachs-pulevs-jenningses in an utterly one-sided fashion.

I'm not sure how to interpret your response.

Let me ask you the same question again...

Do you feel Tyson Fury beat the peak version of Wladimir Klitschko?

This is the second time I've asked you this question and you've refused to answer it, but I have responded to everything you've asked me to.

So I don't understand your reluctance, because it's not a complicated question.

[DrDuke]

I'm not sure how to interpret your response.

I have responded to everything you've asked me to

A pathological liar.

However, I'll do ya a favor and answer your question. Of course, Fury had tools to beat prime Klitschko. There was no reasonable evidence of Klitschko being significantly past it, when he faced Fury. Everybody didn't take Fury seriuosly back then, saw the bout as a mismatch and didn't propose theories about Klitschko's being past it. While now Klitschko lost because he was timid and past prime, not because Fury outboxed him. It's so easy to revise now, isn't it?

[Enlightened-One]

I'm not sure how to interpret your response.

I have responded to everything you've asked me to

A pathological liar.

However, I'll do ya a favor and answer your question. Of course, Fury had tools to beat prime Klitschko. There was no reasonable evidence of Klitschko being significantly past it, when he faced Fury. Everybody didn't take Fury seriuosly back then, saw the bout as a mismatch and didn't propose theories about Klitschko's being past it. While now Klitschko lost because he was timid and past prime, not because Fury outboxed him. It's so easy to revise now, isn't it?

You didn't answer the question the first time I asked it. You discussed something else.

I never believed the Klitschko-Fury bout was a mismatch.

I expected Wladimir to win, but always felt that an upset was possible.

At least we both agree that Tyson Fury did not beat the peak version of Wladimir Klitschko.

[DrDuke]

I'm not sure how to interpret your response.

I have responded to everything you've asked me to

A pathological liar.

However, I'll do ya a favor and answer your question. Of course, Fury had tools to beat prime Klitschko. There was no reasonable evidence of Klitschko being significantly past it, when he faced Fury. Everybody didn't take Fury seriuosly back then, saw the bout as a mismatch and didn't propose theories about Klitschko's being past it. While now Klitschko lost because he was timid and past prime, not because Fury outboxed him. It's so easy to revise now, isn't it?

You didn't answer the question the first time I asked it. You discussed something else.

I never believed the Klitschko-Fury bout was a mismatch.

I expected Wladimir to win, but always felt that an upset was possible.

At least we both agree that Tyson Fury did not beat the peak version of Wladimir Klitschko.

Course it's always necessaary to 'feel that an upset is possible' in order to make 'told ya' comments. Anyway, you can't provide the evidence of your true picks before that fight. And you even still didn't provide any reasonable indications of Klitschko being past prime.

[Enlightened-One]

A pathological liar.

However, I'll do ya a favor and answer your question. Of course, Fury had tools to beat prime Klitschko. There was no reasonable evidence of Klitschko being significantly past it, when he faced Fury. Everybody didn't take Fury seriuosly back then, saw the bout as a mismatch and didn't propose theories about Klitschko's being past it. While now Klitschko lost because he was timid and past prime, not because Fury outboxed him. It's so easy to revise now, isn't it?

You didn't answer the question the first time I asked it. You discussed something else.

I never believed the Klitschko-Fury bout was a mismatch.

I expected Wladimir to win, but always felt that an upset was possible.

At least we both agree that Tyson Fury did not beat the peak version of Wladimir Klitschko.

Course it's always necessaary to 'feel that an upset is possible' in order to make 'told ya' comments. Anyway, you can't provide the evidence of your true picks before that fight. And you even still didn't provide any reasonable indications of Klitschko being past prime.

I joined the forum in 2016.

I have already addressed my thoughts about Klitschko.

And we both agree that Tyson Fury did not beat the peak version of Wladimir Klitschko.

Mission accomplished!

[DrDuke]

You didn't answer the question the first time I asked it. You discussed something else.

I never believed the Klitschko-Fury bout was a mismatch.

I expected Wladimir to win, but always felt that an upset was possible.

At least we both agree that Tyson Fury did not beat the peak version of Wladimir Klitschko.

Course it's always necessaary to 'feel that an upset is possible' in order to make 'told ya' comments. Anyway, you can't provide the evidence of your true picks before that fight. And you even still didn't provide any reasonable indications of Klitschko being past prime.

I joined the forum in 2016.

I have already addressed my thoughts about Klitschko.

And we both agree that Tyson Fury did not beat the peak version of Wladimir Klitschko.

Mission accomplished!

Since when we agreed that Tyson Fury did not beat the peak version of Wladimir Klitschko?

[Boxerbeetle]

Talking of Vitali, I’ve always thought he’d be a terrible matchup for Fury. Vitali had an iron chin with pretty high volume, wasn’t afraid of getting hit and was obviously a very big lump himself. I think he would have beaten Fury.