tyson-lewis revisted

[margaret thatcher]

people mostly act like this fight means nothing and tyson was completely shot

but from 99-2002, then after losing to len, tyson beat up the following in 6 rounds or less:

golota
botha
ettiene
savarese
nielsen


is this really any worse much worse than, say

szpilka
duhaupas
molina
washington
brezeale

is the 2nd group supposed to be on a totally different level or something?

[HomicideHenry]

golota
botha
ettiene
savarese
nielsen

I think you also forgot Julius Francis and Orlin Norris in there. I might be wrong though. Regardless, most of those guys were journeyman or over the hill. Ettiene, I still think took a dive removing his mouthpiece and everything while lying on the canvas.

The Nielsen fight.... Was the most telling of how far gone Mike Tyson really was.... Nielsen "won" a lot of fixed fights over the years and never really was all that good. Yet it took Tyson seven rounds to put him away. That was right before Lennox Lewis.

Mind you at the time I was a very dumb and impressionable boxing casual at the time and bought into the hype that Tyson was still a wrecking machine who only needed one punch to regain the heavyweight title against the glass jawed Lennox Lewis--- or so Lewis was portrayed by the American media--- so you can imagine my shock and disappointment when Lennox Lewis absolutely battered him.

People tend to forget that when Mike Tyson returned in 1993, virtually every win he had from that point on was against scared shitless journeymen and fringe contenders at best.

When he retired after Kevin McBride I will never forget what he said at the press conference, "My career was over when I lost to Buster Douglas," which is quite telling--- he never again took the sport of boxing seriously and was matched up softly. Still, antics outside the ring and fast knockouts over hapless opponents made people buy into the image that he was still this invincible destroyer.

By the time he met Lennox Lewis he was certainly nothing more than a four round fighter masquerading as a top 10 contender in all reality--- as for Wilder's opponents as WBC champion, the only guy I see listed there who was comparable to Savarese, etc is Gerald Washington. The rest were decent/good heavyweights--- I certainly can see 2001 Mike Tyson struggling to put away Johan Duhapas, because that man had one hell of a chin.

No, let's not make Mike Tyson more than he was in the early 2000s. He was strictly a guy living off of his name by that point. Lennox Lewis defeated the echo that was once Mike Tyson. Other than the first round, he gave no more resistance than a punching bag.

Every generation has a sad end to a boxing career. For guys in the 40s & 50s, it was Joe Louis getting knocked out by Rocky Marciano. For guys in the 1910s it was Jeffries getting stopped by Johnson. For guys in the 1890s it was Sullivan getting stopped by Corbett. Etc.

Mike Tyson strictly got the Lewis fight because of bizarre antics saying he'd eat Lewis's children, and doing illegal tactics in the ring trying to break Botha's arm and hitting Norris after the bell, etc--- and quite frankly there was nobody else out there who was interesting. Lewis sure wasn't going to go after John Ruiz or Chris Byrd, there was simply no interest and no real money involved in something like that.

[margaret thatcher]

golota, botha, savarese, etienne, nielesen and co

don't see how destroying that group all in 6 and under ranks any much lower than the likes of what gets guys world rated today, in some cases guys get ranked as high as #2 or #3 just by koing a bunch of guys like that

[banjo]

Tysons peak career wasn't exactly packed with wins over top talent either, an over the hill Larry Holmes being the standout, it was more the way he dispatched them though.

[TheLeprechaun]

The footspeed that made Tyson what he was was long gone. He was a small plodder with good handspeed, good power, bad stamina and no heart.

[Boxerbeetle]

I’d take a motivated Golota to beat everyone on Wilder’s resume, except Fury obviously. Shame he was so mental.

[HomicideHenry]

Let's examine more closely then...

Golota, previously knocked out by Lennox Lewis in one round back in 1997 and knocked out in ten rounds by Michael Grant in 1999. He was winning decisions over ancient Jesse Ferguson ('99) and way-passed-his-best Tim Witherspoon ('98) and was clearly seen as a man who had seen far better days. Prior to the Tyson fight he won a 10-round decision over Orlin Norris, who was also over-the-hill.

Savarese, was a "safe" opponent for George Foreman in 1997 because George refused to defend the lineal title against the real contenders. He then gets kayoed in 5 rounds by David Izon (also in '97). He gets wins over the comebacking out-of-shape Buster Douglas and Lance Whitaker, before losing to Michael Grant. Then Tyson strikes.

Botha, popped for steroids against Axel Schulz in 1995, then lost to Moorer in 1996, fights a couple of bums, and loses to Mike Tyson in the 5th round--- and Tyson had to cheat in order to do it when he tried to break his arm. Mind you just one year later Lennox Lewis would knock out Botha in two rounds.

Francis, was knocked out four times previously to the Tyson fight and never really was beyond British level anyways. It took Tyson two rounds to put him away.

Norris, a small heavyweight who once competed for the cruiserweight title (LKO8 Nate Miller) he previously been knocked out (also) by Bert Cooper back in 1990. Game and willing, but soundly outboxed by Henry Akinwande in 1997. After getting kayoed in the 1st by Tyson, which was later ruled a no contest because Tyson hit him after the bell--- he would drop a 10-round decision to Golota the following year.

Nielsen.... Where to begin.... There is at least one instance in his career where fight fixing went under the microscope and it is quite possible that it happened many times throughout his career. Jeremy Williams still to this day claims that he was bought off to take a dive against the Danish heavyweight. That being said... The highlight of his career is "winning" a highly controversial decision over Larry Holmes when he was almost 50 years old. Most of the men that Nielsen beat were either journeymen or guys passed their prime.

Ettiene, well he certainly didn't do anything of consequence after losing to Mike Tyson. He got stopped in three rounds by Valuev and also got knocked out by Cedric Boswell. So it's quite clear his limitations.

[margaret thatcher]

Let's examine more closely then...

Golota, previously knocked out by Lennox Lewis in one round back in 1997 and knocked out in ten rounds by Michael Grant in 1999. He was winning decisions over ancient Jesse Ferguson ('99) and way-passed-his-best Tim Witherspoon ('98) and was clearly seen as a man who had seen far better days. Prior to the Tyson fight he won a 10-round decision over Orlin Norris, who was also over-the-hill.

Savarese, was a "safe" opponent for George Foreman in 1997 because George refused to defend the lineal title against the real contenders. He then gets kayoed in 5 rounds by David Izon (also in '97). He gets wins over the comebacking out-of-shape Buster Douglas and Lance Whitaker, before losing to Michael Grant. Then Tyson strikes.

Botha, popped for steroids against Axel Schulz in 1995, then lost to Moorer in 1996, fights a couple of bums, and loses to Mike Tyson in the 5th round--- and Tyson had to cheat in order to do it when he tried to break his arm. Mind you just one year later Lennox Lewis would knock out Botha in two rounds.

Francis, was knocked out four times previously to the Tyson fight and never really was beyond British level anyways. It took Tyson two rounds to put him away.

Norris, a small heavyweight who once competed for the cruiserweight title (LKO8 Nate Miller) he previously been knocked out (also) by Bert Cooper back in 1990. Game and willing, but soundly outboxed by Henry Akinwande in 1997. After getting kayoed in the 1st by Tyson, which was later ruled a no contest because Tyson hit him after the bell--- he would drop a 10-round decision to Golota the following year.

Nielsen.... Where to begin.... There is at least one instance in his career where fight fixing went under the microscope and it is quite possible that it happened many times throughout his career. Jeremy Williams still to this day claims that he was bought off to take a dive against the Danish heavyweight. That being said... The highlight of his career is "winning" a highly controversial decision over Larry Holmes when he was almost 50 years old. Most of the men that Nielsen beat were either journeymen or guys passed their prime.

Ettiene, well he certainly didn't do anything of consequence after losing to Mike Tyson. He got stopped in three rounds by Valuev and also got knocked out by Cedric Boswell. So it's quite clear his limitations.

it's almost like you can play those resume games with.......every single fighter

[margaret thatcher]

I’d take a motivated Golota to beat everyone on Wilder’s resume, except Fury obviously. Shame he was so mental.

golota, botha, savarese, ettiene, .............all seems like a wilder ko streak, perhaps with some names that are even better than the typical wilder opponent

szpilka, duhaupas, molina, washington, etc....is this really supposed to be levels above?


and its not just wilder........that type of run, especially for an already established championship level fighter, would be sure to make tyson a comfortable top 10 rated guy today. a guy like mike hunter was made top 10 just for beating bakole and kuzmin. wilder was made top 5 even just with scott and big bermane

tyson had declined but he was still easily blowing away dudes who are no worse than the opposition that gets ppl hyping guys today

[margaret thatcher]

btw i do remember savarese beating goofy whittaker, goofy was a national champ amateur and getting hyped at the time, was a fun fight and good win. whittaker KO'd maskeav in 2 and beat monte barret after that to regain some hype

[HomicideHenry]

Mind you... I agree with you that Wilder's title defenses, with the exception of Luis Ortiz and Tyson Fury, were against glorified trial horses and fringe contenders at best.

But Tyson was incredibly shot, and those men were hand-picked by his management strictly because they were flawed or over the hill or limited. Not because they were highly ranked by some organization or sought after. Botha may have been the lone exception of the guys you listed who actually was ranked by some sort of organization.

Mind you at that time the WBO title didn't mean anything, the only titles that mattered were the WBA/WBC/IBF straps. It was seen more as a belt that meant you graduated to the top 15-10 in the world.

At least the men Wilder defended against were ranked by the WBC at the time. That being said, I do think 2001 Mike Tyson struggles to put away Johan Duhapas and wouldn't have been able to do a thing with Spilka (or however it's spelled), and probably would have struggled with Eric Molina too. Why? Because they weren't old or too limited. They had something to them, even if they weren't all that great.

And as much as I like Mike Tyson there's no way the 2001 version does anything to Wilder. Too old, no heart for the business, no real stamina, and that's a bad recipe when you're only 5'11" going up against a fast handed 6'7" reckless power puncher.

[margaret thatcher]

tyson was faded, obviously not nearly at his peak, but compared to the run of the mill hw contender he was still handy. the type of streak he put together from his comeback until fighting lewis would easily get him hype and a ranking today/in recent years

hell, bermane stiverne got ranked close to the top 5 pretty much just for beating chris arreola, mr chubby who always loses to every half contender or champ he faces. i dont think a guy like that is levels above a golota or botha

[Boxerbeetle]

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if 2001 Tyson ko’d Wilder. Wilder is total shit.

[margaret thatcher]

wilder might ktfo him, but a 2001 tyson would be very dangerous for a lot of the contenders, and even some champs and 'top' contenders that would follow


i'd take a 2001 tyson, months after running over golota, to ktfo bermane the blob stiverne for example. you'd have to be a complete fanny to think that wasnt a very high possibility

[Noxy]

I think it’s remembered that way because they’re actually close in age, but Tyson was a lot older in boxing years when the fight actually happened.

I remember not being fussed about the fight when it was made. It could have been a cracking match had things been different, though.

[Noxy]

I watched Lewis-Briggs the other day again. Feckin good fight that was. Lewis met fire with fire.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I watched Lewis-Briggs the other day again. Feckin good fight that was. Lewis met fire with fire.

Same here, my word, some fight. Briggs came out throwing bombs, caught Lewis early, and Lennox took what he had to offer and then picked him apart.

When you consider a past it version of Briggs went 12 with Vitali, absorbing a tonne of shots, makes you realise just how good Lewis was, and how big a puncher too.

[tonyevs]

The footspeed that made Tyson what he was was long gone. He was a small plodder with good handspeed, good power, bad stamina and no heart.

I can agree with a lot of that; but not the 'no heart' bit.
Tyson took his lumps in his early defeats; he took his lumps against Lewis too.
It was clear Tyson was just picking up much needed money by time of the Francis and McBride fights.

I admit to possibly being biased; Tyson was THE heavyweight during my stay initial love with boxing, so to me, a prime Tyson destroys every heavyweight, and a lot of those following him too.

Each generation has THE heavyweight of their generation they consider would beat all others. Ali was that one for many of the older guys .. I bet Bunce the Dunce still screeches it .. I know the other idiot Colin Hart does/did.

We seeing Lennox Lewis getting remembered more highly now than he was back in his reign ..

I'm pretty sure in 2050 Tyson Fury will have a mythical like following too

[jamesmcdonnell]

wilder might ktfo him, but a 2001 tyson would be very dangerous for a lot of the contenders, and even some champs and 'top' contenders that would follow


i'd take a 2001 tyson, months after running over golota, to ktfo bermane the blob stiverne for example. you'd have to be a complete fanny to think that wasnt a very high possibility

Tyson looked like a man who knew he was going to lose during the ring walk.

[margaret thatcher]

I watched Lewis-Briggs the other day again. Feckin good fight that was. Lewis met fire with fire.

Same here, my word, some fight. Briggs came out throwing bombs, caught Lewis early, and Lennox took what he had to offer and then picked him apart.

When you consider a past it version of Briggs went 12 with Vitali, absorbing a tonne of shots, makes you realise just how good Lewis was, and how big a puncher too.

darrol wilson iced shan in 3 before len got to him, maybe briggs got more durable as he got older, never got stopped again after lewis

can the right ped cocktail make a guy more durable?

[jamesmcdonnell]

I watched Lewis-Briggs the other day again. Feckin good fight that was. Lewis met fire with fire.

Same here, my word, some fight. Briggs came out throwing bombs, caught Lewis early, and Lennox took what he had to offer and then picked him apart.

When you consider a past it version of Briggs went 12 with Vitali, absorbing a tonne of shots, makes you realise just how good Lewis was, and how big a puncher too.

darrol wilson iced shan in 3 before len got to him, maybe briggs got more durable as he got older, never got stopped again after lewis

can the right ped cocktail make a guy more durable?

Yes, I know he had been stopped before, any fighter can get caught by a really good punch, could have been inexperience, who knows.

[dookus]

I watched Lewis-Briggs the other day again. Feckin good fight that was. Lewis met fire with fire.

Same here, my word, some fight. Briggs came out throwing bombs, caught Lewis early, and Lennox took what he had to offer and then picked him apart.

When you consider a past it version of Briggs went 12 with Vitali, absorbing a tonne of shots, makes you realise just how good Lewis was, and how big a puncher too.

darrol wilson iced shan in 3 before len got to him, maybe briggs got more durable as he got older, never got stopped again after lewis

can the right ped cocktail make a guy more durable?

I think Briggs claimed to have suffered an asthma attack against Wilson, which he then got proper treatment for

[jamesmcdonnell]

Same here, my word, some fight. Briggs came out throwing bombs, caught Lewis early, and Lennox took what he had to offer and then picked him apart.

When you consider a past it version of Briggs went 12 with Vitali, absorbing a tonne of shots, makes you realise just how good Lewis was, and how big a puncher too.

darrol wilson iced shan in 3 before len got to him, maybe briggs got more durable as he got older, never got stopped again after lewis

can the right ped cocktail make a guy more durable?

I think Briggs claimed to have suffered an asthma attack against Wilson, which he then got proper treatment for

That would make sense. I know he had Asthma all through his career, given how durable he was since then, it sounds legit.

[jameswilson]

Briggs all through his career was absolutely enormous but after getting shaken heavily Lewis lifted him off his feet several times.

[stujones]

I dont think Tyson was shot to pieces vs Lewis on paper...but he was way overweight.....that was a huge issue. Tyson had done a "Wilder" pumped a shit load of iron and roids and was way over weight.....making him slower and out of has early.

Remember boxing monthly had Tyson as #1 after Rahman kod Lewis. Tyson was always poor when heavy. He was awful against the punching bag Neilsen, but looked much better vs Francis and Saverese.

But yes no 2021 article is calling Wilder shot....yet he was older than Tyson vs Lewis.....The Tyson who fought Framcis was the same who lost to Holyfield. Had the 2002 Tyson been at 16 stone.....it would have been interesting