An undisputed world heavyweight champion within 18 months?

[Enlightened-One]

Do we think there’ll be an undisputed world heavyweight champion within the next 18 months?

All four main titles are currently held by Oleksandr Usyk and Tyson Fury, but the following bouts seem imminent:

• Anthony Joshua (has executed his immediate rematch clause with Usyk)
• Dillian Whyte (WBC mandatory challenger)
• Robert Helenius (will apparently be named as the WBA's mandatory challenger)
• Joe Joyce (WBO mandatory challenger)
• Filip Hrgovic (is rumoured to become the IBF's mandatory challenger if Martin Bakole agrees to participate in the IBF final eliminator)

Thoughts?

[margaret thatcher]

do champs not get exceptions made for mandatories in the case of unification?

like, they can make the mandatory after, if they are unifying?

[mike_UK]

If that Hrgovic thing is true, has there ever been an easier path to a heavyweight world title shot than that?

[Enlightened-One]

do champs not get exceptions made for mandatories in the case of unification?

like, they can make the mandatory after, if they are unifying?

For Tyson Fury, there’s a 30-day time limit.

The right to participate in title unifications is at the discretion of the sports governing bodies, rather than a legal entitlement.

Personally-speaking, I really can’t envisage the various governing bodies allowing their titleholders to avoid facing their mandatories for the next 12 to 18 months, which is what would need to happen in order for the victors of Fury-Whyte and Usyk-Joshua to face each other.

I really do hope I'm wrong though.

[Enlightened-One]

If that Hrgovic thing is true, has there ever been an easier path to a heavyweight world title shot than that?

Pete Rademacher's pro debut!

[margaret thatcher]

raz cojanu got torn apart by club fighters and still got a shot

[candyslim]

If that Hrgovic thing is true, has there ever been an easier path to a heavyweight world title shot than that?

Pete Rademacher's pro debut!

Didn't he have to win the Olympics to qualify? I do take your point though. In answer to Mike I'd say "not too many" but in Hrgovic's defence, I believe I'm right in saying that in accordance with their own rules the IBF were obliged to (and did according to Sauerland) sound out every eligible contender rated above MBI before getting to him, about whether they would be prepared to fight Hrgovic in a final eliminator to become their mandatory challenger for Joshua's now Usyk's titles.

It seems they all declined the opportunity which seems somewhat ignominious but one needs to factor in the point that the purse was likely to be nowhere near what a top 15 fighter might consider appropriate for taking on a risky opponent like the Croat.

[Enlightened-One]

It seems they all declined the opportunity which seems somewhat ignominious but one needs to factor in the point that the purse was likely to be nowhere near what a top 15 fighter might consider appropriate for taking on a risky opponent like the Croat.

I don’t think anyone is ducking Hrgovic though.

The IBF faced a similar conundrum with Kurbrat Pulev, fighters like Miller and Whyte refused to participate in final eliminators, because they weren’t being paid their commercial worth.

Filip Hrgovic isn’t a big name.

No one, other than the tiny niche die-hard boxing fraternity, knows anything about him.

It’s not as if Hrgovic’s handlers (the Sauerland's, via Wasserman) are doing their upmost to build a loyal fanbase, because as well as constantly engaging in hideously obscene mismatches, Filip seems to fight in a different country every time he competes (i.e. Croatia, Latvia, Germany, USA, Denmark, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Austria etc.).

That’s a lot of countries to compete in, despite having only engaged in thirteen bouts!

Hrgovic has had seven fights in six different countries against complete nobodies within the last three years! And I’m pretty confident that one or two of those fights slipped under the radar and weren’t even discussed by this forum (i.e. Kartozia ?)!

Kalle & Nisse Sauerland recently boasted that Wasserman was "the biggest sports agency on planet earth", with more than two thousand athletes under contract.

Apparently they have a massive financial war chest at their disposal, but yet they’re flatly-refusing to fund decent bouts for Filip Hrgovic, which suggests they lack faith in him, because they’re refusing to invest in their own fighter!

[H8Usernames]

Some people said that Mikkael Kessler vs Joe Calzaghe was a unification fight even though Joe was already world champion when Mikkael made his debut. These people live in wonderland with Alice and fail to see the simple champion vs challenger dynamic that was obviously there.

Same goes with todays hw division there is only one real champion and that's Tyson Fury, whoever comes to fight him will be the challenger.

There are two variations available on this A. That Fury is really a freakweight champion meaning a man enjoying such a huge size advantage can never truely be the world champion. If this applies then we also have a clearcut champ out there in Usyk who is then the undisputed champion and can't lose that title regardless of any outcome vs Fury.

B. We can say that nobody can be world champion unless they have the ring, ibo, wbo, ibf, wbf, wba, wba gold, wbc and wbc emeritus belts but if anyone is gay enough to make such demands then fck em.

[margaret thatcher]

fury's beat 1 world class heavyweight in the last 6 years (same as usyk), he aint the undisputed king of the hill yet

let's see if he can actually manage a couple title defenses for once

[candyslim]

It seems they all declined the opportunity which seems somewhat ignominious but one needs to factor in the point that the purse was likely to be nowhere near what a top 15 fighter might consider appropriate for taking on a risky opponent like the Croat.

I don’t think anyone is ducking Hrgovic though.

The IBF faced a similar conundrum with Kurbrat Pulev, fighters like Miller and Whyte refused to participate in final eliminators, because they weren’t being paid their commercial worth.

Filip Hrgovic isn’t a big name.

No one, other than the tiny niche die-hard boxing fraternity, knows anything about him.

It’s not as if Hrgovic’s handlers (the Sauerland's, via Wasserman) are doing their upmost to build a loyal fanbase, because as well as constantly engaging in hideously obscene mismatches, Filip seems to fight in a different country every time he competes (i.e. Croatia, Latvia, Germany, USA, Denmark, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Austria etc.).

That’s a lot of countries to compete in, despite having only engaged in thirteen bouts!

Hrgovic has had seven fights in six different countries against complete nobodies within the last three years! And I’m pretty confident that one or two of those fights slipped under the radar and weren’t even discussed by this forum (i.e. Kartozia ?)!

Kalle & Nisse Sauerland recently boasted that Wasserman was "the biggest sports agency on planet earth", with more than two thousand athletes under contract.

Apparently they have a massive financial war chest at their disposal, but yet they’re flatly-refusing to fund decent bouts for Filip Hrgovic, which suggests they lack faith in him, because they’re refusing to invest in their own fighter!

As I've alluded to before, by making pretty miserable offers it weeds out most of the serious opposition who might be interested in becoming IBF mandatory, leading to their man being matched with someone who doesn't value himself quite so highly (probably not an elite opponent) or better still being made automatic mandatory by default.

Why then would they feel the need to up the ante?

Obviously I'm only talking about the current IBF mandatory situation, it doesn't explain or excuse the pitiful lack of investment needed to maximize Filip's potential to actuality take the title once that mandatory title challenge comes around.

[Enlightened-One]

Some people said that Mikkael Kessler vs Joe Calzaghe was a unification fight even though Joe was already world champion when Mikkael made his debut. These people live in wonderland with Alice and fail to see the simple champion vs challenger dynamic that was obviously there.

I understand the point you’re making, but historical real-world facts should not be ignored, simply because you dislike them.

Joe Calzaghe added the WBA & WBC titles to his WBO strap when he beat Mikkel Kessler.

It was a title unification bout, even if you personally refuse to recognise it as such.

Same goes with todays hw division there is only one real champion and that's Tyson Fury, whoever comes to fight him will be the challenger.

Tyson is the best heavyweight on the planet, but there are always going to be lingering doubts as to whether he’d beat some of his top-tier world-rated peers.

We can't give him credit for doing something he hasn't done if the fights are available and he hasn't fought them.

Prior to the Usyk defeat, AJ’s claim to being regarded as a legitimate world champion was much more compelling than Wilder’s.

There are two variations available on this A. That Fury is really a freakweight champion meaning a man enjoying such a huge size advantage can never truely be the world champion.

Excluding the last two Wilder bouts, the stats categorically prove that Tyson Fury isn’t an extraordinarily heavy fighter. He usually enters the ring weighing less than 260lbs.

This means the Brit cannot be described as being “freakishly” large.

If this applies then we also have a clearcut champ out there in Usyk who is then the undisputed champion and can't lose that title regardless of any outcome vs Fury.

Nonsense.

There’s nothing wrong about being a fan of Usyk’s, but your claim is silly!

Fury needs to beat the winner of the Usyk-Joshua rematch.

B. We can say that nobody can be world champion unless they have the ring, ibo, wbo, ibf, wbf, wba, wba gold, wbc and wbc emeritus belts but if anyone is gay enough to make such demands then fck em.

A fighter can be regarded as the best in the world without being a titleholder.

A fighter cannot be regarded as being a world champion without holding some sort of legitimate world title.

[Enlightened-One]

As I've alluded to before, by making pretty miserable offers it weeds out most of the serious opposition who might be interested in becoming IBF mandatory, leading to their man being matched with someone who doesn't value himself quite so highly (probably not an elite opponent) or better still being made automatic mandatory by default.

The Sauerlands are trying to market Hrgovic as some sort of "fearsome" Boogeyman that’s being ducked by all his big-name rivals.

They’re submitting lowball offers and subsequently proclaiming "duck" whenever they’re rejected.

The problem with this approach though, is that Hrgovic gains very little media exposure, and he lacks credibility (either due to failing the proverbial eyeball test or due to the calibre of names listed on his resume).

Why then would they feel the need to up the ante?

If the Sauerlands can orchestrate a world-title shot with minimal investment, then I guess they’ve achieved “something”.

However, Hrgovic’s lack of experience will inevitably result in the Croatian suffering an embarrassingly one-sided defeat.

The Sauerlands are handling Hrgovic’s career as if he’s the second coming of Luis ‘King Kong’ Ortiz.

Obviously I'm only talking about the current IBF mandatory situation, it doesn't explain or excuse the pitiful lack of investment needed to maximize Filip's potential to actuality take the title once that mandatory title challenge comes around.

I genuinely believe the Sauerlands feel that Hrgovic is not the real deal. They’re being risk averse and refusing to invest in their fighter, because they lack faith.

I just can’t see any sporting benefit for a fighter continually facing outrageously abysmal opposition, especially when you take into consideration that Hrgovic just keeps needlessly gaining weight to the detriment of his athletic ability.

He seems to be regressing as time passes by.

Perhaps when he’s motivated and feels threatened by his opponent, Hrgovic might be able to raise his game and shed the excess timber, but the likelihood is that he can’t, because he’s enjoyed an extremely easy ride for the last five years or so.

[candyslim]

We seem to be largely on the same page, the only difference that I can see being Sauerland's attitude toward Hrgovic. Their actions or lack of them, suggest you are right, but my head can't get around the idea that Sauerland or Wasserman whatever they call themselves these days, might not rate him.

The guy was a beast as an amateur. Hard hitting, tough as old boots, good technique, maybe not the quickest either in terms of handspeed or speed around the ring, nevertheless a formidable amateur and WSB fighter.

I'm sure you will have watched him getting blatantly robbed in the Olympic semi-final by Tony Yoka who went on to get gold. People complain about the final decision over Joyce, but you could make a case for Yoka winning against Joyce, not so the Hrgovic semi.

Seldom have I seen a heavyweight turn pro who seemed to me better equipped for an assault on the professional crown. I really thought he would be the man to relieve Joshua of his titles (Fury and Usyk not part of the picture back then). How could they not have rated him at that time?

It's like acquiring a Rolls Royce and storing it underwater. WTF are they playing at?

[bigjack]

If that Hrgovic thing is true, has there ever been an easier path to a heavyweight world title shot than that?

Charles Martin ?

[gregregegg]

Surly not helenius for the WBA super belt. geezes fuking christ. Should be DDD vs trev, Winner vs Heli, Winner for WBA super.

[margaret thatcher]

actually i never thought of helly vs hrg before, would be a good fight

[Enlightened-One]

actually i never thought of helly vs hrg before, would be a good fight

Hrgovic is going down the easy IBF route.

Wasserman won’t pay for Helenius-Hrgovic.

[KiwiRider]

The Sauerlands are trying to market Hrgovic as some sort of "fearsome" Boogeyman that’s being ducked by all his big-name rivals.

That's funny, he is a boogeyman because hardly anyone has seen him, because he hasn't been in a fight worth watching.

[margaret thatcher]

hrg had a decent first year or so to his career but then its been downhill hasnt it

in this past year he's had 3 fights and i hadn't heard of 2 of those opponents before. the other was 40 year old rydell booker. clearly he's capable of beating far better opposition than this. they are excessively going sawft for him

he's one of these guys i just cant be arsed with anymore unless he finally steps up.

[HomicideHenry]

2023 is my guess, unless Fury is made WBC Franchise champion and can forgo his mandatories to go straight for undisputed.

[bobcatbox]

Do we think there’ll be an undisputed world heavyweight champion within the next 18 months?

All four main titles are currently held by Oleksandr Usyk and Tyson Fury, but the following bouts seem imminent:

• Anthony Joshua (has executed his immediate rematch clause with Usyk)
• Dillian Whyte (WBC mandatory challenger)
• Robert Helenius (will apparently be named as the WBA's mandatory challenger)
• Joe Joyce (WBO mandatory challenger)
• Filip Hrgovic (is rumoured to become the IBF's mandatory challenger if Martin Bakole agrees to participate in the IBF final eliminator)

Thoughts?

I thought for sure we would see an undisputed champion within 18 months of the first Wilder-Fury fight. This seems to be an even worse landscape for that to happen given the possibility of a third Usyk-Joshua fight and the implications that has for various belts… Fury is the real champ as far as I’m concerned, and that’s good enough for me.

[margaret thatcher]

Do we think there’ll be an undisputed world heavyweight champion within the next 18 months?

All four main titles are currently held by Oleksandr Usyk and Tyson Fury, but the following bouts seem imminent:

• Anthony Joshua (has executed his immediate rematch clause with Usyk)
• Dillian Whyte (WBC mandatory challenger)
• Robert Helenius (will apparently be named as the WBA's mandatory challenger)
• Joe Joyce (WBO mandatory challenger)
• Filip Hrgovic (is rumoured to become the IBF's mandatory challenger if Martin Bakole agrees to participate in the IBF final eliminator)

Thoughts?

I thought for sure we would see an undisputed champion within 18 months of the first Wilder-Fury fight. This seems to be an even worse landscape for that to happen given the possibility of a third Usyk-Joshua fight and the implications that has for various belts… Fury is the real champ as far as I’m concerned, and that’s good enough for me.

fury's beat only 1 top 10 heavyweight in the last 6 years, just like usyk. wilder and joshua are of very similar quality, although usyk only needed 1 try to beat aj. fury's only made 1 title defense in his whole career and has struggled badly with being a consistent and reliable champion who can be counted on to stay active and turn back all challengers. some ppl are really overvaluing wilder if they think fury having a love affair with him makes him the king. there is a division outside DW.

fury aint the champ in the king of the division sense until he beats the current unified champ usyk, or aj if josh wins the rematch.

[bobcatbox]

Do we think there’ll be an undisputed world heavyweight champion within the next 18 months?

All four main titles are currently held by Oleksandr Usyk and Tyson Fury, but the following bouts seem imminent:

• Anthony Joshua (has executed his immediate rematch clause with Usyk)
• Dillian Whyte (WBC mandatory challenger)
• Robert Helenius (will apparently be named as the WBA's mandatory challenger)
• Joe Joyce (WBO mandatory challenger)
• Filip Hrgovic (is rumoured to become the IBF's mandatory challenger if Martin Bakole agrees to participate in the IBF final eliminator)

Thoughts?

I thought for sure we would see an undisputed champion within 18 months of the first Wilder-Fury fight. This seems to be an even worse landscape for that to happen given the possibility of a third Usyk-Joshua fight and the implications that has for various belts… Fury is the real champ as far as I’m concerned, and that’s good enough for me.

fury's beat only 1 top 10 heavyweight in the last 6 years, just like usyk. wilder and joshua are of very similar quality, although usyk only needed 1 try to beat aj. fury's only made 1 title defense in his whole career and has struggled badly with being a consistent and reliable champion who can be counted on to stay active and turn back all challengers. some ppl are really overvaluing wilder if they think fury having a love affair with him makes him the king. there is a division outside DW.

fury aint the champ in the king of the division sense until he beats the current unified champ usyk, or aj if josh wins the rematch.

Iron Lady we must agree to disagree. To be the man you gotta beat the man, and Fury is the man.

I am very excited about a Usyk-Fury fight. I think Fury mauls him outta there inside the distance. You think Usyk can beat him?

[margaret thatcher]

usyk beating joshua (in 1 try, not 2) is right up there with fury beating wilder. usyk is an undefeated olympic champ with 3 of the major titles. fury aint the king until he beats him or josh (if josh beats usyk). fury does of course have the wlad win too, but that was in 2015 and we are going to 2022 soon! long time ago, and he then went on a 3 year bender cuz he wasnt up to being champ


you can't have cleaned out a division and made yourself the king when you've beat a meagre 1 top 10 opponent in 6 years. fury hasnt beaten all of his biggest rivals, and has 0 depth as champ vs credible contenders. guys who really are the kings of their division unify by beating other champs and consistently turning back other top contenders. that's usyk at cruiser, it's not fury at hw.

i do rrate fury as #1 (not as champ) and think fury beats usyk, but usyk is very crafty and an excellent boxer. fury has struggled with opponents who werent expected to be at his level, and easily couldve been stopped on that horrofic cut vs wallin. usyk defo has a chance